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iElf
2010-09-18, 07:01 PM
...I have this idea of building myself a dashing swordsman style character (yes, like elan) out of my lvl 1 bard, and I'm note sure how to do it. re rolling is going to be VERY difficult in this campaign and a char build is a bad reason in the eyes of my DM.

sofar: lvl1 Drow Bard with virtue of cunning

STR 8
CON 10
DEX 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 20

at will: Viscous mockery,Misdirect mark
Encounter:Focused sound
Daily: Stiring shout

feat:Advantage of cunning

allowed rulebooks: PH1-3 ,AP,MP1-2

any help would be great, thank you

Mando Knight
2010-09-18, 07:31 PM
sofar: lvl1 Drow Bard with virtue of cunning

STR 8
CON 10
DEX 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 20

at will: Viscous mockery,Misdirect mark
Encounter:Focused sound
Daily: Stiring shout

feat:Advantage of cunning

allowed rulebooks: PH1-3 ,AP,MP1-2

any help would be great, thank you
First off, it would help a lot if your powers actually used a sword. You'll want at least Guiding Strike, since you don't have a Con bonus at all with which to use War Song Strike. Each level will have at least one Melee power with the Weapon keyword. Those are the ones you need to take if you want your character to be a dashing swordsman.

Second, a 20 in your main stat rarely accomplishes anything compared to an 18, especially with the Bard, who likes to dip his fingers into every pot around. I would recommend an 8/14/13/15/10/18 build. This gives you a +2 Con modifier, a +2 Int modifier, as well as enough Dex to dip into Rogue and/or Ranger. You also have a higher Fortitude and HP for a slightly lower Will, which was your best NAD anyway. You can sacrifice the 14 in Con (down to 13) to bring Int up to 16, which makes Hide better than Chain, at the cost of 1 Fort and 1 HP.

Improved Majestic Word tends to be better than Advantage of Cunning, I find, unless you've got items that can cause nasty rider effects with forced movement. Since you're a Leader, you'll probably want to look into Toughness in order to stay on the front lines. Multiclassing as another Leader class (that is, Warlord, Artificer, or Ardent, given your stats) will give you more healing and a few buffs for your allies. Go Striker (particularly Ranger if you bump your Dex up to 13, but Warlock, Rogue, and Sorcerer can also work) for extra damage. A Defender multiclass (Paladin or Swordmage especially, though Battlemind might help if you increase your Con) will help with controlling the enemies at melee range. Controller multiclass (Psion or Wizard, your pick) is almost exclusively for range, not melee, so you should probably avoid them if you're set on being a Dashing Swordsman.

Urpriest
2010-09-18, 07:48 PM
You can't be a Dashing Swordsman with the books you have access to, unfortunately. You need to lobby for access to Dragon Magazine (the character builder gives full access) for the Daring Blade Paragon Path, which is very obviously intentionally designed for people who want to play Elan after he gains Dashing Swordsman. Build with that in mind.

iElf
2010-09-18, 07:50 PM
You can't be a Dashing Swordsman with the books you have access to, unfortunately. You need to lobby for access to Dragon Magazine (the character builder gives full access) for the Daring Blade Paragon Path, which is very obviously intentionally designed for people who want to play Elan after he gains Dashing Swordsman. Build with that in mind.

which dragon is it in?

Mando Knight
2010-09-18, 07:59 PM
You can't be a Dashing Swordsman with the books you have access to, unfortunately. You need to lobby for access to Dragon Magazine (the character builder gives full access) for the Daring Blade Paragon Path, which is very obviously intentionally designed for people who want to play Elan after he gains Dashing Swordsman. Build with that in mind.

It'll be a while before they get to Paragon, if they're starting at level 1. PHB2 and Arcane Power should have enough melee powers to work with until then...

Urpriest
2010-09-18, 08:08 PM
It'll be a while before they get to Paragon, if they're starting at level 1. PHB2 and Arcane Power should have enough melee powers to work with until then...

Which is irrelevant, because if you're a Dashing Swordsman like Elan then your melee abilities suck until you take the PrC (Paragon Path in 4e), so you aren't taking Cha-based melee powers until Paragon, and even then you're just using your path ability to Charisma-ize multiclass Str and Dex powers most of the time.

@OP: I'm not sure. The Character Builder really is an excellent resource though.

WitchSlayer
2010-09-18, 08:34 PM
Dragon Magazine 376

Mando Knight
2010-09-18, 08:40 PM
and even then you're just using your path ability to Charisma-ize multiclass Str and Dex powers most of the time.

*cough*Combat*cough*Virtuoso*cough*

I'm sorry, what was that? I had a heroic feat stuck in my throat.

Urpriest
2010-09-18, 08:44 PM
*cough*Combat*cough*Virtuoso*cough*

I'm sorry, what was that? I had a heroic feat stuck in my throat.

A. Only works on attack rolls, giving you sucky damage (well, except for powers like Sly Flourish and Brash Strike)

B. Again, irrelevant. If you take Combat Virtuoso, you are now good at Cha-based melee combat at low levels. Elan is not. The whole reason he takes the Dashing Swordsman PrC is because he is not. Part of the archetype is to be unable to melee effectively during heroic tier. Otherwise he'd just play a normal Virtue of Valor bard.

Reluctance
2010-09-18, 08:45 PM
Compendium says Dashing Blade is in Dragon 376. (Edit: Ninja)

Depending on how Elanlike you want your bard to be, a positive Int modifier might not be a good place to start. Not to mention that most of the melee bard powers synergize better with valor/Con builds. (Yes, Elan spent his early OotS life as comic relief rather than a dashing swordsman. Ten levels as a joke sounds incredibly dull at the actual table.)

A quick look at the WotC CharOp boards can give you decent pointers for powers and feats to pick. Go for melee powers, since implement powers tend to be ranged tricks that provoke OAs if you do them within sword range. Once you start with that and get your stats worked out better, the rest of the the character should fall into place.

Mando Knight
2010-09-18, 08:55 PM
B. Again, irrelevant. If you take Combat Virtuoso, you are now good at Cha-based melee combat at low levels. Elan is not. The whole reason he takes the Dashing Swordsman PrC is because he is not. Part of the archetype is to be unable to melee effectively during heroic tier. Otherwise he'd just play a normal Virtue of Valor bard.

The OP said that he wanted to be a Dashing Swordsman like Elan, not "a formerly useless character in melee" like him. One can be the former without copying the latter. The "archetype" as you call it consists of one character so far, who evolved due to the author's desire to make him rise above mediocrity so he could help the rest of the party in combat as well as justify his heroic entry in the later strip. If the point was to languish for ten levels taking no melee powers or feats and then suddenly switch entirely over to a melee character, he'd have presented us with something already a touch more developed than a level 1 Bard.

cupkeyk
2010-09-19, 09:49 AM
I recommend going half-elf instead of drow. Adept Diletante lets you use Cha or con as the ability for your dilletante power; also counts as an MC feat for wherever your half elf dilletante power came from to access the PP later. Don't forget to take versatile master at level 11. Then choose a swordsman-ish power like demoralizing strike. War song strike isn't actually very good. Guiding strike is; refluffed as you aggravating the opponent to create an opening for allies. With flank and guiding strike, its a free +4 to hit for the striker. Vicious mockery will be a good second. You weapon should be a Githyanki silver sword to make all your attacks psychic. Add Psychic lock at paragon. Nomnomnom. Consider another MC feat to gain implement proficiency (heavy blade).

Lowering Cha may or may not be a good idea depending on the DM. But pumping con will be a good idea since you will be in melee. Notice that int only affects Virtue of cunning's range. Keep your int mediocre but keep virtue of cunning.

There are tons of insult themed bard powers for you to choose from. They aren't usually the best of their levels but it fits the dashing swordsman theme. The earliest at level one being:
Satire of Fortune(Daily)(You're such a clutz, we can just stand here and watch you trip on your own sword. But do we gain XP for that?)
Malevolent Mischief(Daily)(My friend here can cut you up with his toenail shavings)
Blunder(Encounter)(Eeew, you need an oil blotting sheet 'cause you're gonna slip on your own face grease).

The next one is a daily at five: Satire of Bravery (I dare you to touch his nose. Go on, you can do it!)

Obligatory handbook link. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/21106285/Cruel_Lullabies:_The_Bard_Handbook)

Lastly, try to get a shadowdance armor ASAP since you may need to use a ranged power in melee.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-19, 10:17 AM
Is it viable to instead be a Rogue with the Bard multiclass feat? Rogues are very good swordsmen right from level one, and bards tend to focus more on directing or healing their allies.