The Limit Dragoon [PEACH]

[Morph Bark]

This is an old class of mine (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19524510/The_Limit_Dragoon_PEACH?pg=1) I once made and posted on the WotC forums, based off the system made by Animana (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528498/The_Limit_Warriors) and thought I'd post up here too for more views and comments and constructive criticism. Plus to make sure that I would have all my homebrew in one location of course.

Limit Breaks of the Limit Dragoon are in the second post.



LIMIT DRAGOON
Two Limit Dragoons ready for battle
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7430/doubledragoonsbyarvalisbs4.jpg
Art by arvalis and ShiroKai of DeviantART

“I love the smell of dragonfire in the morning. It certainly lifts the spirit.”


- George Hennix, Limit Dragoon of the Brazen Order

Eons ago a small group of people made a pact with the ancient powerful beings known as dragons. The dragons granted them their strength and a spiritual link with themselves, allowing the people to use extraordinary abilities. They became incredible jumpers, leaping high with the sky as their only limit. They founded an order of knights, and became known as the Limit Dragoons.

MAKING A LIMIT DRAGOON
As a limit warrior, the limit dragoon best make sure to stay buddies with a healer, as he’ll be taking plenty of damage, which he actually needs if he wishes to use Limit Breaks. Limit dragoons are incredible jumpers, and pair up with or against dragons nicely thanks to their abilities.
Abilities: You benefit from a high Constitution for more hit points. The more damage you take the more you can use your Limit Breaks. Strength is also important to deal more damage and for higher jumps.
Races: Limit dragoons aren’t a really common class, with only humans, elves and kobolds having a noteworthy number amongst them. A small number of Thri-Kreen Limit Dragoons have become true legends among the people of the desert.
Alignment: Most dragoons have a tendency towards lawfulness, and some lean towards neutrality, mostly because they worship Bahamut, Tiamat and Sardior, but they can be of any alignment.
Starting Gold: 5d4x10 (125 gp).
Starting Age: As Ranger (PHB 109).

Class Skills
The limit dragoon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (DEX), Bluff (CHA), Concentration (CON), Craft (INT), Diplomacy (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Jump (STR), Listen (WIS), Knowledge (arcane) (INT), Ride (DEX), Search (INT), Spot (WIS), Survival (WIS), Tumble (DEX), Use Magic Device (CHA).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (4 + Int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 4 + Int

Hit Dice: d12

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Limits Known|Highest Limit Level

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Lancet (+1d6), Limit Gauge, Leap of Faith, The Sky is the Limit|1|1

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Dragon Companion (1 HD)|2|1

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Lancet (+2d6), Uncanny Dodge|2|1

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Dragon Companion (2 HD)|3|2

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Lancet (+3d6)|3|2

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5|Dragon Companion (3 HD)|4|2

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5|Improved Uncanny Dodge, Lancet (+4d6)|4|2

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6|Dragon Companion (4 HD)|5|3

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Lancet (+5d6)|5|3

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Dragon Companion (5 HD), Safe Landing|6|3

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|Lancet (+6d6)|6|3

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|Dragon Companion (6 HD), Mettle|7|4

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|Lancet (+7d6)|7|4

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|Dragon Companion (7 HD)|8|4

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9|Lancet (+8d6)|8|4

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|Dragon Companion (8 HD)|9|5

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Lancet (+9d6)|9|5

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Dragon Companion (9 HD)|10|5

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Lancet (+10d6)|10|5

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Berserk, Dragon Companion (10 HD)|11|6[/table]


Weapon Proficiencies: Limit dragoons are proficient with all simple weapons, the short sword and all martial reach weapons. They're also proficient with all light, medium and heavy armour, but not shields.

Limit Gauge:
Limit dragoons use their Limit Break ability by depleting their Limit Gauge. Your Limit Gauge begins at zero. As you take damage, you add whatever amount of damage you took to your Limit Gauge. For example, if Kain takes 14 damage, he would add that to whatever he already had in his Limit Gauge. The maximum amount that your Limit Gauge can go to is your level times 10, to a max of 200 at level 20. Your limit gauge refreshes back to zero at each dawn, regardless of whether you've rested or not.
When you use your Limit Breaks, subtract the cost of the Limit Break from your total. For example, Kain uses a second level Limit Break, which costs 10 points. If he had 42 points before using it, he now has 32. You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.

Limits Known:
A limit dragoon begins play knowing only one Limit Break. He learns another Limit Break at every even numbered level. He can use any Limit Break he knows at any time as long as he can pay for it from his Limit Gauge. First level Limits cost 5 points, second level Limits cost 10, third level Limits cost 20, fourth level Limits cost 40, fifth level Limits cost 80, and sixth level limits cost 160.

Highest Limit:
Limit dragoon know only first level Limit Breaks when they begin play. At every fourth level, the highest level they can use is increased by one (Level 2 at Class Level 4, 3 at level 8, 4 at level 12, 5 at level 16, and 6 at level 20). When a Limit Dragoon member learns a new Limit Break, he can choose the highest level he knows or any Limit Break lower.

Leap of Faith:
A limit dragoon adds his class level to any Jump checks he makes. For instance, if Kain is a Fighter 2/Limit Dragoon 6, he gets a +6 bonus on all his Jump checks.

Lancet:
A limit dragoon can, as a full round action, make a Jump check to jump high into the air and attack an opponent within an amount of feet of his starting position equal to his base land speed. However, he can only do this while wielding a polearm weapon two-handed and he must have a target to use Lancet. He deals +1d6 lancet damage for every 10 points of his Jump check result.

For instance, if Kain got a Jump check result of 36, he would deal an extra +3d6 lancet damage to his opponent. The maximum extra Lancet damage dice starts at 1d6 and increases by 1d6 every odd limit dragoon level. The limit dragoon still has to make an attack roll to see if he hits his target.

This lancet damage, like sneak attack, is not multiplied on a critical hit. For the purpose of Lancet, Jump checks made for high jumps count as Jump checks made for long jumps. Lancet counts as a charge for any effects that would affect a charge. However, opponents do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you use lancet, nor do you get a bonus on attack rolls or a penalty to AC.

Dragon Companion:
At second level a limit dragoon gains a special dragon spirit as a companion. The dragon companion is of Small size and resembles a specific kind of dragon that your order is allied with. Choose one true dragon whose alignment is within one step of yours. You and your dragon companion gain a +2 bonus on all Cha-based checks made against that kind of dragon. Your dragon companion starts out with 1 Hit Die and gains 1 Hit Die once you reach your fourth limit dragoon level, and every 2 limit dragoon levels thereafter. The starting stats for the dragon companion are as follows: Str 12, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 9, Cha 9.

The dragon companion has a movement speed of 30 ft and a fly speed of 50 ft with average maneuverability. It has a natural armour bonus to AC of +2. The dragon companion has low-light vision, darkvision out to 60 feet, and a breath weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage per HD of the dragon (but only 1d4/HD if sonic). Choose one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic). The breath weapon deals damage of this type. The breath weapon is a line of 5 ft per HD of the dragon or a cone of 5 ft per 2 HD of the dragon (choose one). The dragon companion can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds. If the dragon companion ever dies, it can be regained by praying and searching for one for 24 hours, like the druid's animal companion.

A young Limit Dragoon and her dragon companion
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4409/dragoonffxiek2.jpg
Art by Tamura of DeviantART

Every time your dragon companion gains a Hit Die, it gains a special ability. You may choose from the following list of traits. Unless otherwise specified each trait may only be taken once:

• Adamantine Dragon: If you choose this trait, all natural weapons your dragon companion has are treated as adamantine weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Its claws and teeth gain a slight black sheen over them. If you choose this trait you cannot choose the Byeshk Dragon, Iron Dragon, Silver Dragon or Wraith Dragon traits.
• Aural: Your dragon companion gains blindsense out to 15 feet. This trait can only be taken if it already has the Dark-Eyed and Light-Eyed traits.
• Arcane Blood: Your dragon companion gains the ability to cast spells as a sorcerer of a level equal to half its Hit Dice. You may not take this trait in combination with Divine Soul or Psychic Mind.
• Aquatic: Your dragon companion gains the water breathing extraordinary ability. It can now breathe underwater indefinitely. It also gains a swim speed equal to its base land speed.
• Breath of Thunder: If you choose this trait, every time your dragon companion hits someone with its breath weapon, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + dragon companion’s HD + dragon companion’s Con mod) or become permanently deafened.
• Burrower: dragon companion gains a burrow speed of 20 feet.
• Byeshk Dragon: If you choose this trait, all natural weapons your dragon companion has are treated as byeshk weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, like that of the daelkyr of Eberron. If you choose this trait you cannot choose the Adamantine Dragon, Iron Dragon, Silver Dragon or Wraith Dragon traits.
• Celestial Spirit: Your dragon companion’s type changes to Outsider (native) with the appropriate changes to HD size and skill points (it gains an amount of skill points, equal to [HD+3]x2). Your dragon companion also gains the Celestial template. This trait cannot be taken in combination with the Infernal Spirit traits and you cannot be evil if you wish to take this trait.
• Dark-Eyed: Your dragon companion’s darkvision increases to 120 feet.
• Divine Soul: Your dragon companion gains the ability to cast spells as a cleric of a level equal to half its Hit Dice, minus the domains. You may not take this trait in combination with Arcane Blood or Psychic Mind.
• Flash Breath: If you choose this trait, every time your dragon companion hits someone with its breath weapon, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + dragon companion’s HD + dragon companion’s Con mod) or become permanently blinded.
• Holy Breath: From the moment you choose this trait, your dragon companion’s breath weapon deals half sacred damage and half the damage type it normally dealt. This trait cannot be chosen in combination with the Unholy Breath Trait and you must be nonevil to choose this trait.
• Huge: Your dragon companion increases in size to Huge. It gains +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha and +3 natural armour. It’s fly speed and maneuverability are unchanged. This trait can only be taken if the dragon companion has 10 HD or more and it must already have the Medium and Large traits.
• Infernal Spirit: Your dragon companion’s type changes to Outsider (native) with the appropriate changes to HD size and skill points (it gains an amount of skill points, equal to [HD+3]x2). Your dragon companion also gains the Fiendish template. This trait cannot be taken in combination with the Celestial Spirit trait and you cannot be good if you wish to take this trait.
• Intimidating: Your dragon companion gains frightful presence (DC 10 + dragon companion’s HD + dragon companion’s CHA mod).
• Iron Dragon: If you choose this trait, all natural weapons your dragon companion has are treated as cold iron weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Its claws and teeth gain an ice-like sheen over them. If you choose this trait you cannot choose the Adamantine Dragon, Byeshk Dragon, Silver Dragon or Wraith Dragon traits.
• Large: Your dragon companion increases in size to Large. It gains +4 Str, +2 Con and +2 natural armour. It’s fly speed increases to 150 ft and its maneuverability decreases to clumsy. This trait can only be taken if the dragon companion has 7 HD or more and it must already have the Medium trait.
• Light-Eyed: Your dragon companion’s low-light vision improves greatly. Your dragon companion can now see four times as far as a human in low-light conditions.
• Magical Heart: Your dragon companion gains DR 5/magic and its natural weapons count as magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This trait can only be taken if you have already taken the Medium trait. This trait can be taken up to four times, each time increasing the DR by 5, for a maximum of DR 20/magic.
• Medium: Your dragon companion increases in size to Medium. It gains +4 Str, +2 Con and +1 natural armour. It’s fly speed increases to 100 ft and its maneuverability decreases to poor. This trait can only be taken if the dragon companion has 4 HD or more.
• Mental Maturity: Choose one mental stat for your dragon companion (INT, WIS or CHA). That stat increases by 1 per 2 Hit Dice of your dragon companion.
• Multi-Headed: Your dragon companion gains an extra head. This extra head can take a standard action every turn but is limited to things a head can do, such as speaking, using a breath weapon, listen or spot checks, manifesting powers, casting stilled spells or using a gaze attack. If a head uses a breath weapon, none of the other heads can use a breath weapon for the next 1d4 turns as normal with one head. This trait can be taken multiple times.
• Psionic Heart: Your dragon companion gains DR 5/psionic and its natural weapons count as psionic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This trait can only be taken if you have already taken the Medium trait. This trait can be taken up to four times, each time increasing the DR by 5, for a maximum of DR 20/psionic.
• Psychic Mind: Your dragon companion gains the ability to cast spells as a psion of a level equal to half its Hit Dice. You may not take this trait in combination with Arcane Blood or Psychic Mind.
• Silver Dragon: If you choose this trait, all natural weapons your dragon companion has are treated as silver weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Its claws and teeth gain a slight silver sheen over them. If you choose this trait you cannot choose the Adamantine Dragon, Byeshk Dragon, Iron Dragon or Wraith Dragon.
• Speedy: Your dragon companion’s fly speed increases by 100 feet. However, its maneuverability decreases by one step. This trait cannot be taken if its maneuverability is already clumsy.
• Spellcasting Apprentice: Your dragon companion can cast all 0-level spells from the sorcerer and cleric lists 3 times per day each.
• Stealthy: The shadows seem to welcome your draconic friend, and its steps seem supernaturally silent. Your dragon companion gains a +4 bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.
• Telepathic: You gain a telepathic bond with your dragon companion. When you are both on the same plane, you can communicate with each other through your thoughts.
• Transformer: Your dragon companion gains the ability to change itself into a child version of a member of your own race. If the dragon companion is Medium, it instead takes the form of an adolescent. If the dragon companion is Large, it takes the form of an adult.
• Unholy Breath: From the moment you choose this trait, your dragon companion’s breath weapon deals half profane damage and half the damage type it normally dealt.
• Wraith Dragon: If you choose this trait, all natural weapons your dragon companion has are treated as wraithiron weapons and gain all their benefits. Its claws and teeth gain a slight ethereal glow over them. If you choose this trait you cannot choose the Adamantine Dragon, Byeshk Dragon, Iron Dragon or Silver Dragon traits.

Uncanny Dodge:
Starting at third level, a limit dragoon can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a limit dragoon already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a limit dragoon with four levels in rogue, for example), he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

The Sky is the Limit:
Starting at first level, all jumps made by a limit dragoon count as running jumps. In addition, armour check penalties no longer apply to his Jump checks.

Improved Uncanny Dodge:
A limit dragoon of seventh level or higher can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies characters to sneak attack him by flanking him unless the attacker has at least four more HD than the target does.

Safe Landing:
Upon attaining level ten, you can treat large falls as though they were nothing. For every level you have in limit dragoon, you can fall an extra five feet without taking damage. A level 16 limit dragoon would treat falls 80 feet shorter than they actually are, for example.

Mettle:
At twelfth level and higher, a Limit Dragoon can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save, he instead can opt to completely negate the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Limit Dragoon does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Berserk:
Upon reaching level 20, a limit dragoon doubles the amount of damage they recieve when adding it to their Limit Gauge. For example, if Zack takes 54 damage from an attack, he adds 108 points to his Limit Gauge.


LIMIT BREAKS
LEVEL 1 LIMITS
Acidic Strike
Breathe
Cold Strike
Dash
Extend Strike
Fire Strike
Land
Lesser Fusion
Refreshing Wind
Scurry
Shoving Strike
Sonic Strike
Static Strike
Stunning Strike
Super Jump

LEVEL 2 LIMITS
Ancient Circle
Battle Fortification
Blade Rush
Break
Dragon Killer
Feral Attack
Grand Sever
Hasten
Overpowering Strike
Rigorous Combatant
Virulent Battler

LEVEL 3 LIMITS
Accelerated Assault
Ace Ambition
Adrenaline Boost
Bulwark Defense
Emergency Aegis
Fate
Intuitive Sight
New Gravity
Restore
Safeguard
True Score

LEVEL 4 LIMITS
Aural Abuse
Berserker
Blazing Punishment
Charged Retribution
Cold Suffering
Double Drive
Eager Strike
Fostered Fortress
Improved Ancient Circle
Lacerate
Offsetting Offense
Sight

LEVEL 5 LIMITS
Aid
Dragon Lord
Ego Crusher
Elude Defense
Greater Fusion
Mind Crusher
Rounding Rend
Sniping Blitz
Soul Crusher
Syphon Sword
Tormenting Triad

LEVEL 6 LIMITS
Countless Cuts
Ferocious Frenzy
Lucky!
Ruining Strike
Self Stasis
Sure Death
Time Flies
Umbra Ego


PLAYING A LIMIT DRAGOON
"A fire burns within my soul. The roaring fire of a dragon."
A limit dragoon is not a very common figure in everyday society, but they are easily recognizable. In that manner, one could compare them to paladins, but with an allegiance to dragons rather than The Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia. To people not an enemy, the limit dragoons are heroic figures that can provide great aid. Several orders of dragoons exist, each allied with a certain kind of dragon, such as the Order of the Platinum Scale, which is allied with gold, silver and bronze dragons, and the Order of Black Horn, which is an evil order allied with the chromatic dragons. Members of these orders often wear armour in the colours of their dragon allies, sometimes even dragonscale armour to further their connection with the draconic. Some evil limit dragoons choose for their dragon companion to have five heads as a sign to show their devotion to Tiamat.
Other Classes: You get along with all sorts of other classes. Limit dragoons like to stay friendly with clerics who can constantly heal their wounds so that they can fill up their Limit Gauges without having to worry about being too low on HP. You also enjoy the company of magic users whose magic abilities can provide some good assistance, especially sorcerers because you feel a kinship with them due to their link with dragons. And of course you also don’t mind the help other combat classes can provide you to take a foe down.
Combat: Limit dragoons stay in the front lines, voluntarily taking the brunt of damage so they can fill up their Limit Gauge. You use your evasive abilities to avoid taking too much damage if you start to get low on health or if your Limit Gauge is full. Your Limit Breaks are useful for dealing larger amounts of damage than normally to end the battle more quickly.
Advancement: If your focus is on Limit Breaks, a good idea might be to go for the whole 20 levels for the Berserk ability. It will ensure that you can use Limits as often as you want. Otherwise, combat should be your main focus, with support coming from your dragon companion. Barbarian is always a good choice so you can rage to gain extra strength and hit points. Some ranger levels with dragons as a favoured enemy would combine great with the limit dragoon.

NPC Reaction
Common folk can easily recognize a limit dragoon by their dragon companion. Most people fear or respect limit dragoons for their connection with dragons, and the ones that are allied with chromatic dragons are especially feared due to their great cruelty and cunning. Some charismatic dragoons turn out to be great leaders and often rule lands bordering dragon territories, either because they are allied with the dragons, or because they fight against them.

[Morph Bark]

NEW FEATS

A Stick has Two Ends
You have trained with reach weapons a lot, and learned make good use of both ends.
Benefit: You may use reach weapons as double weapons. The second end deals damage as a club and threatens 5 ft around you.

Alley-Oop! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095)
Prerequisites: Lancet class feature, DEX 13
Your teammates know you well enough to know when they may need to provide an extra boost in height.
Benefit: If you are below a friendly target and you make a jump check to reach their height, they may use a standard action to allow you to make an additional jump check from their height to continue moving upward.
Special: For someone to assist you with this, you must have used Lancet in at least 5 encounters with them.

All the Way Through
Through a strong and more well-positioned leap and aim of your weapon, you create a lot of gore as you pierce your enemy’s body.
Prerequisite: Lancet +5d6, Power Attack
Benefit: By taking a -20 penalty on your Jump check, you can deal 1d4 Con damage to your target in addition to the normal damage. You can’t use this feat more than once per day on the same target.

Bouncing Off the Walls (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095)
Prerequisite: Lancet class feature, New Gravity limit break
When making grand leaps in confined spaces, you use your momentum and the walls to your advantage.
Benefit: When you have the New Gravity limit break active, if you make a Lancet attack, the bonus increases by one die type when leaping from a wall or ceiling (+1d8 instead of +1d6). If the ceiling is more than 30 feet above your target, increase the die type by two.

Distant Lancet
With a little bit of a start, you managed to hit from further away
Benefit: You can, as part of your Lancet, move up to your movement speed in a straight line towards your target before making your jump. You get a +4 bonus on your Jump check and can hit your target if it is within a distance of twice your base land speed away from the position you were at when you jumped.
You can only use this feat while wearing light or no armour.

Dragoon Arcanist
Prerequisites: Dragon companion class feature, must have a familiar, level 3rd
Benefit: Your familiar leaves you and instead your dragon companion gains the benefits your familiar would get. If your effective sorcerer/wizard level for purposes of determining the strength of your familiar increases, so do the benefits your dragon companion gets. Your dragon companion additionally gains 1 hp per Limit Dragoon level you have and you gain a +3 bonus to Listen and Spot checks while your dragon companion is within 5 ft of you.

Dragoon of Nature
Prerequisites: Animal companion class feature, dragon companion class feature, level 3rd
Benefit: Your animal companion leaves you and instead your dragon companion gains the benefits your animal companion would get. If your effective druid level for purposes of determining the strength of your animal companion increases, so do the benefits your dragon companion gets.

Knock Out the Magic
Your weapon has been infused with the magic in the blood of those it has pierced, which you can use to your advantage.
Prerequisite: Lancet +4d6, Knowledge (arcane) 1 rank
Benefit: By taking a -20 penalty on your Jump check, you can lower a target’s spell resistance by 5 (minimum 0) for 10 rounds if you hit. If you use this feat a second time on a target before 10 rounds have elapsed, the effect of the first use expires.

Made Holey
Your aim is amazing and you can strike precisely to impede your targets more.
Prerequisite: Lancet +4d6
Benefit: By taking a -15 penalty on your Jump check, your successful Lancet attack imposes a -2 penalty on either the target’s Strength OR Dexterity checks, as well as on any Strength- OR Dexterity-based skill checks, for the rest of the day. You must choose whether to affect Strength or Dexterity before making the attack.


NEW LIMIT BREAKS

Level 1 Limit Breaks:
Lesser Fusion: You merge together with your dragon companion. You gain the draconic template. The fusion lasts for 1 minute per Limit Dragoon level. This is a supernatural ability.

Level 2 Limits
Ancient Circle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095):
Yourself and all allies within 30 feet gain DR5 against any attacks from enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the encounter.

Dragon Killer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095):
You gain an untyped bonus to damage equal to your WIS modifier against enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the battle.

Level 3 Limits
Defy the Earth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9474079#post9474079):
For 1 round/level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed. Additionally you get a bonus on your jump checks equal to half your base land speed.

Level 4 Limits
Dimensional Step:
As an immediate action, you may use dimension door, as the spell, on yourself with a caster level equal to your levels in Limit classes. If you end up adjacent to an opponent when you use this ability, you may make an attack as a free action against that opponent. They are flat-footed against this attack.

Improved Ancient Circle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095):
As Ancient Circle, but the DR increases to 10.

Level 5 Limit Breaks:
Dragon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9448095#post9448095):
You become immune to any breath attacks for the remainder of this encounter.

Hammer It In:
Make a Jump check for Lancet as normal and resolve Lancet as normal. Then make another Jump check. If this Jump check exceeds your previous check by 5 or more, you perform Lancet again, but the maximum damage decreases by 1 die. Keep making these checks until you fail or roll a natural 20 for your Jump check. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks before the natural 20 occured.

Greater Fusion: You merge together with your dragon companion. You gain the half-dragon template, including wings regardless of your size, which also grants you a +10 bonus on Jump checks. The fusion lasts for 1 minute per Limit Dragoon level. This is a supernatural ability.

Level 6 Limit Breaks:
Time Flies: Your dragon companion increases two size categories in size, gains +8 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, fly speed increases by 100 ft and maneuverability decreases to clumsy. It's breath weapon gains 4 extra damage dice. If it has swim or burrow speeds it doubles those speeds and also gains tremorsense out to 15 ft. This transformation lasts for 3 rounds. This is a supernatural ability.



The following is all work of Animana, praised be his brain. Only Limit Breaks the Limit Dragoon has access to are replicated here. For more information on the Limit Break system and other Limit Breaks, check the Limit Dragoon class entry or the link to Animana's original thread in the first post.

DESCRIPTIONS
Unless otherwise stated, all Limit Breaks are extraordinary abilities and are swift actions to activate. You can only use one Limit Break per round. Activating a Limit Break does not provoke attacks of opportunity.


LEVEL 1 LIMITS
Level 1 Limit Breaks cost 5 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Acidic Strike:
Deal an extra 1d4 acid damage with each attack this round.
Breathe:
You can breathe water for 1 round/level.
Cold Strike:
Deal an extra 1d4 cold damage with each attack this round.
Dash:
Triple your base movement rate for this round.
Extend Strike:
Double your weapon's reach for this round.
Fire Strike:
Deal an extra 1d4 fire damage with each attack this round.
Land:
As an immediate action you may use this limit break to cancel out all falling damage, no matter the height.
Refreshing Wind:
As a standard action, you can heal yourself of 1d6 damage.
Scurry:
Your climb speed increases to your base land speed for 1 round/level.
Shoving Strike:
As a standard action, you can attempt to push an opponent 30' away with a normal attack at your highest attack bonus. The opponent is allowed a Fortitude saving throw against DC (10 + 1/2 your character level + your STR modifier).
Sonic Strike:
Deal an extra 1d3 sonic damage with each attack this round. This extra damage ignores an object's hardness.
Static Strike:
Deal an extra 1d4 electric damage with each attack this round.
Stunning Strike:
As a standard action, you can attempt to stun your opponent in the form of an attack at your highest attack bonus. The DC for your stun attempt is (10 + 1/2 your class level + your WIS modifier) against their Fortitude save. If successful, the opponent is stunned for one round.
Super Jump:
You can make an extraordinary jump this round. Your jump counts as a running jump, and you gain a +20 to your check.

LEVEL 2 LIMITS
Level 2 Limit Breaks cost 10 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Battle Fortification:
Gain 5 temporary hit points per level. These HP last for 1 round/level. When you take damage, it's taken from your temporary HP first. This does not heal damage you've taken already. You gain only half the points from damage taken from your temporary HP for your Limit Gauge (round down). If you have the Berserk class feature, you gain points on a one for one basis.
Blade Rush:
You dash forward 15 feet in a straight line, hitting any enemies in the way. Any enemies you target must be along the line you rush past. You attack at your highest base attack bonus, rolling once for all attacks. You do your normal sword damage for the attack. After you rush past them, you backflip back to your original position in battle. This is a full action.
Break:
You ignore the first 10 points of any object's hardness that you attack in this round.
Feral Attack:
After making a charge this round, you can still make a full attack.
Grand Sever:
For this round, you gain the benefits of Cleave and Greater Cleave, even if you don't have the feats.
Hasten:
You gain the benefits of Haste (PH 239) for this round.
Overpowering Strike:
The first attack you do this round deals double damage.
Rigorous Combatant:
You gain a +4 insight bonus to all damage rolls for this round.
Virulent Battler:
Gain a +2 insight bonus to all attacks for this round.

LEVEL 3 LIMITS
Level 3 Limits cost 20 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Accelerated Assault:
You can move then attack and keep moving. You can continue to move and attack for however many attacks you have left in the round as long as you have some movement left. You can move up to your normal movement rate. Enemies still get an attack of oppurtunity on you if it applies, though you can tumble normally.
Ace Ambition:
Move yourself to the top of the initiative order.
Adrenaline Boost:
Gain a +6 bonus to STR, DEX, and CON for 1 round/level.
Blade Blast:
As a standard action, you send a bead from your sword that explodes when it hits a target within 30 feet. The explosion deals 1d6 damage/level (to a max of 15d6) to the target and all adjacent targets. The targets are allowed a Reflex save for half damage against a DC of (10 + 1/2 your class level + your WIS modifier).
Bulwark Defense:
You gain a +5 deflection bonus to your AC for 1 round/level.
Emergency Aegis:
Gain a +10 bonus to your natural AC until the end of your next turn. You can use this as an immediate action in response to danger unless you've already used a Limit Break this round.
Fate:
From the moment that you use this Limit until the beginning of your next turn, you can reroll any failed roll one time. If you fail again, you must accept the roll.
Intuitive Sight:
You gain blindsense out to 15 feet for 1 round/level.
New Gravity:
You can treat any surface as though it's a floor. When you step on a wall, for instance, your new gravity lets you walk along it at your normal base speed and you need not make climb checks. This lasts for 1 round/level.
Restore:
You cure yourself of 3d10 damage. This is a standard action.
Safeguard:
You gain damage reduction of 5/- for 1 round/level.
True Score:
You gain a +20 insight bonus to the first attack made in this round.

LEVEL 4 LIMITS
Level 4 Limits cost 40 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Aural Abuse:
Deal an extra 3d4 points of sonic damage with each attack this round. This extra damage ignores an object's hardness.
Berserker:
When you use this Limit Break, all damage you take counts double towards your Limit Gauge for the remainder of the battle. If you have the Berserk class ability, then damage is tripled for your Limit Gauge.
Blazing Punishment:
Deal an extra 3d6 fire damage with each attack you do this round.
Charged Retribution:
Deal an extra 3d6 electric damage with each attack you do this round.
Cold Suffering:
Deal an extra 3d6 cold damage with each attack you do this round.
Double Drive:
You gain two extra attacks this round at your highest attack bonus.
Eager Strike:
For this round, you double the critical range of your weapon. This stacks with the effects of keen weapons, the keen Exotic Sword trait, or the Improved Critical feat.
Fostered Fortress:
You bolster yourself for the worst. For 1 round/level, you're immune to death effects and disintegration.
Lacerate:
You deal an extra 2d8 damage with each attack you do this round.
Offsetting Offense:
You make an attack of opportunity against every attack made against you until the beginning of your next turn.
Sight:
You gain true seeing for 1 minute/level.

LEVEL 5 LIMITS
Level 5 Limits cost 80 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Aid:
You heal adjacent allies, but not yourself, of 6d8 points of damage. This is a standard action.
Ego Crusher:
With each successful strike this round, you deal an additional 1d4 Charisma damage.
Elude Defense:
Your weapon strikes true, bypassing all damage reduction your opponents have for the remainder of this battle.
Mind Crusher:
With each successful strike this round, you deal an additional 1d4 Intelligence damage.
Rounding Rend:
You spin around, attacking all opponents adjacent to you. You attack each target twice, once at your highest attack bonus and another with a -10 penalty. This is a standard action.
Sniping Blitz:
Your sword is eager to attack opponents from afar. You can make a full attack against one opponent from 400 feet away.
Soul Crusher:
With each successful strike this round, you deal an additional 1d4 Wisdom damage.
Syphon Sword:
You heal yourself an amount of damage equal to the damage that you deal this round.
Tormenting Triad:
You gain an additional three attacks this round, each at your highest attack bonus.

LEVEL 6 LIMITS
Level 6 Limits cost 160 points out of your Limit Gauge reserves.
Countless Cuts:
You double the number of attacks you get this round. You also double any additional attacks from haste or similar effects.
Ferocious Frenzy:
Your Limit Gauge fills up to full after using this Limit (essentially, it just fills your Limit Gauge to it's maximum, but you have the 160 points first). For the remainder of the battle, all limits cost half their normal cost. This counts as a swift action, but does not count against your limit of one Limit Break. It still counts against your number of swift actions, however you may use standard action Limit Breaks. You may only use this Limit Break once per day.
Lucky! :
Each time you make an attack this round, flip a coin. If it comes up heads, you make another attack at the same attack bonus and flip the coin again, continuing until you flip tails. When you flip tails, you do not get an extra attack and you move to your next attack, if you have any left available.
Ruining Strike:
You add an additional 20 points to all damage rolls you make this round.
Self Stasis:
You're immune to all effects, both helpful and harmful, until the end of your next turn. This is an immediate action that you can use out of your initiative in response to danger.
Sure Death:
All attacks you make this round gain a +20 bonus to attack rolls.
Umbra Ego:
You split yourself into two for this round. Each version of yourself has half the hit points you had before the split. If one of you dies, the other becomes the permanent you. Each of you can perform any Limit Breaks you know in addition to this one for this round. At the end of the round, the clone disappears and you reclaim any HP that they had left. If you or your clone was healed, you do not get more HP than your maximum amount.

[DracoDei]

For cross reference purposes: Leap Dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143156) (FF IX based).

And HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=79241) is a VERY through write up of Final Fantasy X by Zeta Kai (and the PDF is probably even better).

[Morph Bark]

For cross reference purposes: Leap Dragoon (FF IX based)

:smallconfused: I don't see why that is necessary. I also tend to loathe it when people just link to something else without providing any comments on the work itself. That it already starts here in the first reply I receive... kind of hurts.

[DracoDei]

Because there is a massive amount of stuff on this board, and the real indexes keep failing due to the size of the project. For this reason I am settling for going for taking baby steps towards promoting wikipedia like cross-linking. Also, it helps people not repeat the mistakes of the past if they can see where people have gone with similar ideas before*. I have occasionally felt a little uncertain about it, but you are actually the first person to complain. Note that I believe I added a link to from my work back to yours as well(ABOVE my actual PrC). Putting the reference early in the thread makes it easier for those who might be looking through things years from now.

*As such it qualifies as a form of assistance to your efforts.


Actually, if you feel like it, this discussion (of cross-linking in general) could be something that might deserve its own dedicated thread.

[Maerok]

Some questions:
-So limit breaks are going to be different than maneuvers/stances?
-For lancet +10d6, the prerequisite 100 foot jump should have a DC of like 400. Should the dragoon get a jump check multiplier?
-Does a dragoon lose extra attacks when using lancet?

The Sky is the Limit should be listed before Dragon Companion. I initially thought you'd only added it to the table and forgot to write it down.

And the table has a few issues: see the "BarrelLancet" entries as well as the "Dragon Companion (1 HD)" bits where it should have been incrementing.

[jiriku]

Yah. Needs an in-class bonus to Jump checks, otherwise the higher-DC Lancet bonuses are impractical. Also, what happens if the space you're fighting in doesn't include room for the distance called for in your Jump check?

[Morph Bark]

Note that I believe I added a link to from my work back to yours as well(ABOVE my actual PrC). Putting the reference early in the thread makes it easier for those who might be looking through things years from now.

Ah. Alright then.

I, myself, have a hand of linking to other works in my homebrew posts before showing the actual thing I've worked on, to earlier related works of mine or others' works that inspired me to homebrew something. Hence the links up there, even though they might not link to GiantITP threads.


Some questions:
-So limit breaks are going to be different than maneuvers/stances?

Yes. I will see to what extent I will put up the Limit Break system, as it is not my own. Animana, the creator of the system, will be appropriately credited.


-For lancet +10d6, the prerequisite 100 foot jump should have a DC of like 400. Should the dragoon get a jump check multiplier?

Under Lancet it says "For the purpose of Lancet, Jump checks made for high jumps count as Jump checks made for long jumps."


-Does a dragoon lose extra attacks when using lancet?

Yes.


The Sky is the Limit should be listed before Dragon Companion. I initially thought you'd only added it to the table and forgot to write it down.

I listed it after Dragon Companion to go in alphabetical order, as is usual with these things. If that really is problematic, I suppose I can change that.


And the table has a few issues: see the "BarrelLancet" entries as well as the "Dragon Companion (1 HD)" bits where it should have been incrementing.

Thanks for noting that. Fixing now/Fixed.


Yah. Needs an in-class bonus to Jump checks, otherwise the higher-DC Lancet bonuses are impractical. Also, what happens if the space you're fighting in doesn't include room for the distance called for in your Jump check?

Leap of Faith = bonus to Jump checks.

If it doesn't include that room... then you've purposefully screwed yourself over as a Limit Dragoon.

Seriously though, the Limit Breaks are sort-of the fix to that, I'll put those up as fast as I can.

[jiriku]

Leap of Faith = bonus to Jump checks.

NEEDS MOAR!!!!


If it doesn't include that room... then you've purposefully screwed yourself over as a Limit Dragoon.

Seriously though, the Limit Breaks are sort-of the fix to that, I'll put those up as fast as I can.

We both know that tight battlespaces are a contrivance of the DM, not the player. :smalltongue: But I was speaking more to the idea that the class features should specifically address the possibility of using the jump attack in a confined space and set expectations for what would happen under those circumstances.

[Morph Bark]

Added Limit Dragoon-specific limit breaks and 1st level limit breaks. Once I got levels 2-6 appropriately formatted, I'll add those as well.


We both know that tight battlespaces are a contrivance of the DM, not the player. :smalltongue: But I was speaking more to the idea that the class features should specifically address the possibility of using the jump attack in a confined space and set expectations for what would happen under those circumstances.

Well, if there really would be no other option, I'd say the DM could/should rule that the Limit Dragoon could leap off a wall instead and get similar effect. Really, to me it seems more like a contrivance than anything else. The Limit Dragoon coul also just limit himself to leaping up to the highest available point and just deal a little less Lancet damage, or simply focus on his limit breaks.

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... I recall this from the good old days...


Are you planning to see if Animana minds you bringing over the other stuff?

[DracoDei]

The ceiling problem would be why my version included extra-dimensional aspects to the jump starting at 2nd level (of a PrC). EDIT:I got ninja-ed by the person with the idea of bouncing off a wall so I had no way of considering that option when I original wrote this post, but I like that idea. (End of EDIT)

See what I mean about "prior art"?

The stuff in the following spoiler I wrote up, then realized it looked a bit self-serving, but I couldn't quite bring myself to delete it. It comes down to the following: these are close enough we can learn from eachother, but far enough appart that trying to say that one makes the other pointless or that one is better than the other is foolish.
I also want to more explicitly note that this is, in general, a noticably different animal from mine. For one thing PrC vs Base Class. For another, unless one of his limit breaks does something along those lines, M-Bark is leaving out the entire tactical reason Jump existed in the games I am most familiar with. As Mr Myiagi (sp?) says: "Best block, no be there." Of course, leaving it in requires some serious bending of the laws of physics, but that was the route I took. Having been that shameless, I went ahead and gave them item creation abilities of a very specific nature to as a nod to the easy availability of in-combat healing, revivification, and magical energy regaining in the games I am familiar with. This is either pretty genius, or a horrible horrible mistake(and I don't care which)... All of which is to say that there are enough differences that people will chose what they will chose, and any argument about which is better would be of the "Batman or Superman?/Kirk vs Picard?" level of pointless.

That having been said... when you get done with this, what would you say to a "remix" that combines my jump mechanics with your... everything else?

Taking the street the other way... can you explain to me what the dragon/dragoon bond is supposed to be about in the games? I have played 7, 9, and a bit of 10, and watched Let's Plays on You-Tube of 1-6 and part of 8. In none of them do I seem to recall Dragoons having THAT strong of an affinity for interacting with dragons (perhaps Freya got a cheaper ability to get bonus damage against them than other weapon-based characters, but... other than that it was the name of one ability (which I turned into a spell) and one of her weapons was the "Dragon's Whisker"). And here you have them with a full-on companion with a bunch of options for upgrading it... I have seen this (or damage bonuses against dragons, or other such things) in other, similar classes, so it can't just be you. What gives? Enlighten me?

[The-Mage-King]

Taking the street the other way... can you explain to me what the dragon/dragoon bond is supposed to be about in the games? I have played 7 9, and a bit of 10, and watched Let's Plays on You-Tube of 1-6 and part of 8. In none of them do I seem to recall Dragoons having THAT strong of an affinity for interacting with dragons (perhaps Freya got a cheaper ability to get bonus damage against them than other weapon-based characters, but... other than that it was the name of one ability and one of her weapons was the "Dragon's Whisker"). And here you have them with a full-on companion with a bunch of options for upgrading it... I have seen this (or damage bonuses against dragons, or other such things) in other, similar classes, so it can't just be you. What gives? Enlighten me?

A Dragoon with a Dragon is better than a Dragoon without a Dragon. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)

EDIT: That's the logic of it, right M-Bark?

[Morph Bark]

Hm... I recall this from the good old days...

Are you planning to see if Animana minds you bringing over the other stuff?

:smallbiggrin:

I will try and PM him on the WotC forums later, link him here and all that. Perhaps he might even consider bringing over his things to show them here - he said he was converting his Limit classes to 4E and all, though I haven't seen that, sadly.


The ceiling problem would be why my version included extra-dimensional aspects to the jump starting at 2nd level (of a PrC). EDIT:I got ninja-ed by the person with the idea of bouncing off a wall so I had no way of considering that option when I original wrote this post, but I like that idea. (End of EDIT)

Thanks. I tend to like the simple solutions, though sadly I often seem to make up more convoluted ones in real life.


The stuff in the following spoiler I wrote up, then realized it looked a bit self-serving, but I couldn't quite bring myself to delete it. It comes down to the following: these are close enough we can learn from eachother, but far enough appart that trying to say that one makes the other pointless or that one is better than the other is foolish.
I also want to more explicitly note that this is, in general, a noticably different animal from mine. For one thing PrC vs Base Class. For another, unless one of his limit breaks does something along those lines, M-Bark is leaving out the entire tactical reason Jump existed in the games I am most familiar with. As Mr Myiagi (sp?) says: "Best block, no be their." Of course, leaving it in requires some serious bending of the laws of physics, but that was the route I took. Having been that shameless, I went ahead and gave them item creation abilities of a very specific nature to as a nod to the easy availibility of in-combat healing, revivification, and magical energy regaining in the games I am familiar with. This is either pretty genius, or a horrible horrible mistake(and I don't care which)... All of which is to say that there are enough differences that people will chose what they will chose, and any arguement about which is better would be of the "Batman or Superman?/Kirk vs Picard?" level of pointless.

There are, of course, many ways to go about creating something that exists in another media. If we were both trying to stat up Batman, Superman, Kirk or Picard - just to reference your spoilerblock there - we'd likely come up with wildly different things. (Assuming they could all reasonably be statted with available 3.5 material.)


That having been said... when you get done with this, what would you say to a "remix" that combines my jump mechanics with your... everything else?

It would be an interesting thing to do, though I am not sure how to go about it. We could always start from the bottom and create Dragoon-related material first, rather than an actual Dragoon-combo of our things? Races and weapons might be an idea.


Taking the street the other way... can you explain to me what the dragon/dragoon bond is supposed to be about in the games? I have played 7, 9, and a bit of 10, and watched Let's Plays on You-Tube of 1-6 and part of 8. In none of them do I seem to recall Dragoons having THAT strong of an affinity for interacting with dragons (perhaps Freya got a cheaper ability to get bonus damage against them than other weapon-based characters, but... other than that it was the name of one ability (which I turned into a spell) and one of her weapons was the "Dragon's Whisker"). And here you have them with a full-on companion with a bunch of options for upgrading it... I have seen this (or damage bonuses against dragons, or other such things) in other, similar classes, so it can't just be you. What gives? Enlighten me?

A Dragoon with a Dragon is better than a Dragoon without a Dragon. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)

EDIT: That's the logic of it, right M-Bark?

It was partly an original thing, partly (which came after the idea of doing that) from FFXI, where Dragoons have actual dragon pets. Plus, a Limit Dragoon using the Medium and Large qualities to get a ride-able dragon companion could just fly overhead and jump from above on his targets, or have a higher starting point for even-higher located foes to be Lancetted.

[DracoDei]

It would be an interesting thing to do, though I am not sure how to go about it. We could always start from the bottom and create Dragoon-related material first, rather than an actual Dragoon-combo of our things? Races and weapons might be an idea.
Well, my PrC includes my attempts to stat out the Burmecian race. I suppose doing Ronso and Moogles would be possible (but the Moogles at least have almost certainly been done before on these boards...) As for weapons, from what I remember of FF IX, I would TEND to think that that would mostly come down to some special powers that have a spell effect on a critical (for the add-effect) and that the rest would just be standard sort of Bane/Holy/Lawful/Chaotic/+1d6 Energy damage stuff. Really, the D&D weapons system is incredibly versatile, so their isn't much need to create stuff from scratch I don't think. Now if you wanted to stat out specific weapons from the various games, that would be a thought.



It was partly an original thing, partly (which came after the idea of doing that) from FFXI, where Dragoons have actual dragon pets. Plus, a Limit Dragoon using the Medium and Large qualities to get a ride-able dragon companion could just fly overhead and jump from above on his targets, or have a higher starting point for even-higher located foes to be Lancetted.
Ah... did they ever cover the mythology behind that in FFXI? What is the mechanical function of those pets?


Actually... that reminds me... someone did a full write-up of FF X classes etc I believe, including Overdrives and... I think ALL the creatures, including the super-bonus bosses. Was probably Zeta-Kai.... let me go look for it, then I will edit in both here and in my first post on this thread.

EDIT: Ah, yes, HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=79241) we are....

[The-Mage-King]

Actually... that reminds me... someone did a full write-up of FFIX classes etc I believe, including Overdrives and... I think ALL the creatures, including the super-bonus bosses. Was probably Zeta-Kai.... let me go look for it, then I will edit in both here and in my first post on this thread.

EDIT: Ah, yes, HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=79241) we are....

Psst. That's X, not IX.

[DracoDei]

Why, so it is. (Fixed)

[strawberryman]

It was partly an original thing, partly (which came after the idea of doing that) from FFXI, where Dragoons have actual dragon pets. Plus, a Limit Dragoon using the Medium and Large qualities to get a ride-able dragon companion could just fly overhead and jump from above on his targets, or have a higher starting point for even-higher located foes to be Lancetted.

As a former FFXI player, I can confirm this fact.

...Awesome stuff so far, can't wait to see the finished product. :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

Well, my PrC includes my attempts to stat out the Burmecian race. I suppose doing Ronso and Moogles would be possible (but the Moogles at least have almost certainly been done before on these boards...) As for weapons, from what I remember of FF IX, I would TEND to think that that would mostly come down to some special powers that have a spell effect on a critical (for the add-effect) and that the rest would just be standard sort of Bane/Holy/Lawful/Chaotic/+1d6 Energy damage stuff. Really, the D&D weapons system is incredibly versatile, so their isn't much need to create stuff from scratch I don't think. Now if you wanted to stat out specific weapons from the various games, that would be a thought.

Ah... did they ever cover the mythology behind that in FFXI? What is the mechanical function of those pets?

Well, I was moreso thinking about weapons that aren't already in DnD of course, and not as much the ones that just have a magical enhancement on them. Might be tough to find some that aren't already stattable in DnD though...

But yeah, I've seen Moogles done at least twice, and Zeta-Kai has the Ronso covered, but eh, one can always do the others. I was actually thinking of picking up my other old project from the WotC boards that involves that.


As a former FFXI player, I can confirm this fact.

...Awesome stuff so far, can't wait to see the finished product. :smalltongue:

Glad to see more people like it!

[The-Mage-King]

But yeah, I've seen Moogles done at least twice, and Zeta-Kai has the Ronso covered, but eh, one can always do the others. I was actually thinking of picking up my other old project from the WotC boards that involves that.


Then I suppose that I, too, shall have to counter your boost with my own. The VII Gunblade will return. AHAHAHAHA!

...

...

...Considering how our projects tend to overlap... Joint project?

[Morph Bark]

Then I suppose that I, too, shall have to counter your boost with my own. The VII Gunblade will return. AHAHAHAHA!

Considering how our projects tend to overlap... Joint project?

A possibility, but it seems to me that our projects not so much overlap as they tend to compliment one another. Like me doing races, you doing monsters, then me making classes, you making weapons, etc.

Haven't seen any FF PrCs by either of us yet though... (:smallwink:?)


At any rate, all the Limit Breaks are now up!

[The-Mage-King]

Haven't seen any FF PrCs by either of us yet though... (:smallwink:?)

Yet.

Seeing as I am working on Hero's Edge again, I've got the rough outline of three PrCs in place: Follower of the First Disciple, Follower of the Second Disciple, and Follower of the, you guessed it, Third Disciple.

[strawberryman]

Just noticed, levels 6th-18th on the class features table for dragon companion HD are incorrect, showing 1HD as opposed to the correct amount.

[imp_fireball]

Limit dragoons use their Limit Break ability by depleting their Limit Gauge. Your Limit Gauge begins at zero. As you take damage, you add whatever amount of damage you took to your Limit Gauge. For example, if Kain takes 14 damage, he would add that to whatever he already had in his Limit Gauge. The maximum amount that your Limit Gauge can go to is your level times 10, to a max of 200 at level 20. Your limit gauge refreshes back to zero at each dawn, regardless of whether you've rested or not.
When you use your Limit Breaks, subtract the cost of the Limit Break from your total. For example, Kain uses a second level Limit Break, which costs 10 points. If he had 42 points before using it, he now has 32. You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.


You should include a clause that having damage healed lowers a limit gauge so that limit gauge = (limit gauge) - (damage healed) and also returns to 0 once an encounter ends. Otherwise, it could be abused.

If it isn't already abuseable, I suggest including the clause anyway and then increasing the power of the limit abilities. Because, c'mon. Rule of cool man... rule of cool.

[Magicyop]

Looks like quite a fun class-- Jumping Powah! One question... The Sky is the Limit... what do you mean there is no maximum to how high he can jump? I can jump 8 miles up a mountain, with one leap?

[DracoDei]

Healing removing limit points, and going away at the end of battle both go against the source material AFAIK (then again so does being able to spend less than all of it at once, so maybe that changed with later games). I think that being able to save them between battles MIGHT be worth removing, but the ability to heal without lowering the gauge probably needs to stay (and is less abusable I think). Check the rules for Crusaders about what qualifies as "damage from an enemy" if you can get a hold of them for language to prevent cheese.

One good compromise is that they all go away at the end of any encounter that you spend any in.

Sorry if this is less than clear, either have allergies or am getting over a cold... can't tell which.

[imp_fireball]

(and is less abusable I think).

Less abuse-able?

Hey, I'll put a level in rogue and then invest non-stop in tumble until ECL 10 or 11 where I have 13 ranks in tumble (+13 or +12 if nothing is invested in dexterity). Then I'll get a high constitution, move in and get damaged and then tumble withdraw out as a double move. Next round, I'll move in again strike out with a limit.

Or I can make myself the tank of the party, soaking up damage and limit breaking at the same time.

Also, I can strike out with a limit and expend all my points, get healed and then, with a readied action triggered upon being healed, leap 150ft. into the air - on the next round, I will land and strike out with another limit on a readied action (the 45 median falling damage earns me back my limit points).

Or I can deliberately provoke AoOs by readying actions to strike out right after an opponent AoOs me.

Maybe healing should only affect limit points if current health is less than (current limit points) total health?

That way, If I'm 20/100 Hp and I have 30 limit points, I can get healed 50 damage and lose no limit points. I'll be at 70/100, but if I get, say 20 points, I have only 10 limit points and 90/100 Hp. So I have to remain somewhat wounded.

And again, you can balance this by making limits more powerful.

Also, I can strike out with a limit and expend all my points.


Looks like quite a fun class-- Jumping Powah! One question... The Sky is the Limit... what do you mean there is no maximum to how high he can jump? I can jump 8 miles up a mountain, with one leap?

Easily countered with a clause of 'must land in a space X spaces away (includes elevation)'. Ie. if I jump 100 miles into ionosphere and then land several hours later (falling damage is only

[Morph Bark]

Just noticed, levels 6th-18th on the class features table for dragon companion HD are incorrect, showing 1HD as opposed to the correct amount.

Fixed that. Forgot to fix earlier, d'oh.


You should include a clause that having damage healed lowers a limit gauge so that limit gauge = (limit gauge) - (damage healed) and also returns to 0 once an encounter ends. Otherwise, it could be abused.

If it isn't already abuseable, I suggest including the clause anyway and then increasing the power of the limit abilities. Because, c'mon. Rule of cool man... rule of cool.

I'm averse to making any changes to Animana's system. The way it works seems fine to me, and has been playtested in one of my older games. The only problems the players experienced was that some other Limit classes heavily depend on crafting their own weapons.

Making it disappear between battles is an idea, though, I suppose. But making healing have the limit gauge go down is just silly. You'd need to have a Con of 20 or higher from the get-go to have more HP than your limit gauge has points, otherwise you'd be dead before it'd be full.


Looks like quite a fun class-- Jumping Powah! One question... The Sky is the Limit... what do you mean there is no maximum to how high he can jump? I can jump 8 miles up a mountain, with one leap?

At the time I made it I thought there was a limit to how high you can jump... not sure if there even is any, to be entirely honest. So technically you could, though I'd be pretty amazed by just the sight of an 8-mile mountain. :smalltongue:

[Magicyop]

At the time I made it I thought there was a limit to how high you can jump... not sure if there even is any, to be entirely honest. So technically you could, though I'd be pretty amazed by just the sight of an 8-mile mountain. :smalltongue:

You would? In D&D? Heck, in an extraplanar adventure, an 8 mile mountain is easy to find. That's not even talking about the famous famous mountain > 8 miles: Celestia!

Well, there is a limit, but it is defined BY your jump check. So now I only make jump checks when I'm jumping forward? Does this mean that on a forward leap I can go 8 miles high to go forward 1 yard?

[Morph Bark]

You would?

I would, but then I haven't even seen 4-mile mountains, barring television and pictures. :smallwink:


Well, there is a limit, but it is defined BY your jump check. So now I only make jump checks when I'm jumping forward? Does this mean that on a forward leap I can go 8 miles high to go forward 1 yard?

Yeah, I guess I should remove that last bit of The Sky Is The Limit. I think I included that because I thought Medium characters could never jump higher than 8 feet, but that is listed as how high a Medium character can reach to grab a ledge or something.


...also, I'm adding to Lancet that it can only be used with polearms. Forgot that bit, and it is a necessary bit.

[DracoDei]

In 3.0 there was a limit on both vertical and horizontal leaps defined as a multiple of your character's height (different multiplier for each). Monks got an ability that let them ignore that limit. In 3.5 they removed the limit for everyone.

[imp_fireball]

The way it works seems fine to me, and has been playtested in one of my older games

So it was playtested once... once is okay, but it isn't enough for something that you might want to use again and again.

Y'know, I'm sure animana won't mind if you changed his system. It's not like you're slapping him in the face because of it (and you still gave credit to him, did you?). :smalltongue:

[strawberryman]

Something occurs to me. What happens if your dragon companion dies?

[Morph Bark]

So it was playtested once... once is okay, but it isn't enough for something that you might want to use again and again.

Y'know, I'm sure animana won't mind if you changed his system. It's not like you're slapping him in the face because of it (and you still gave credit to him, did you?). :smalltongue:

Perhaps. I know of at least one other person who playtested it, but she didn't give me feedback on how it went.

I'll see if some changes might have to be made.


Something occurs to me. What happens if your dragon companion dies?

The idea is that you could get one back the same way a Druid can regain their animal companion - hence also the similar name.

[DracoDei]

The idea is that you could get one back the same way a Druid can regain their animal companion - hence also the similar name.Saying that more explicitly might be good then.

[Nidogg]

Well leveling up beats 8 uses of the limit break and 160 kills... Seriously an awesome class, ill use it.

[Animana]

I'm perfectly fine with you using my Limit Break system. And, seriously, feel free to mess with it all you want. It's by no means definitive. Just for the record, there was a fair-sized group that did quite a bit of playtesting with it and it turned out to be more or less fair, with the exception of the Limit Mage, but I'll not go into that.

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

I've read through the thread and I like it. I'd like to contribute a few feats and/or limit breaks for the class once I get some time if it's alright with M-Bark.

[Morph Bark]

I'm perfectly fine with you using my Limit Break system. And, seriously, feel free to mess with it all you want. It's by no means definitive. Just for the record, there was a fair-sized group that did quite a bit of playtesting with it and it turned out to be more or less fair, with the exception of the Limit Mage, but I'll not go into that.

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

I've read through the thread and I like it. I'd like to contribute a few feats and/or limit breaks for the class once I get some time if it's alright with M-Bark.

Thanks for posting here. Appreciate it a lot. :smallsmile: And I'd prolly have taken a long time checking my PMs on the WotC forums...

My group had playtested some of the Limit classes and the only problem they had with them was that the Sniper and Knight had to craft their own weapons, the limit system seemed pretty fair, yeah. Although we didn't play with casters in that campaign... but those tend to be far stronger anyway.

If you wish to contriubute feats or limit breaks, I'm perfectly fine with it. Go ahead!

[Animana]

These are just some things I came up with rather quickly during my lunch. Feel free to rip them to shreds if there's something off balance about them that I overlooked.

NEW LIMIT BREAKS
Level 2 Limits
Ancient Circle:
Yourself and all allies within 30 feet gain DR5 against any attacks from enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the encounter.

Dragon Killer:
You gain an untyped bonus to damage equal to your WIS modifier against enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the battle.

Level 3 Limits
Improved Ancient Circle:
As Ancient Circle, but the DR increases to 10.

Level 5 Limits
Dragon Lord:
You become immune to any breath attacks made by enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of this encounter.


NEW FEATS
ALLEY-OOP!
Prerequisites: Lancet class feature, DEX 13
You teammates know you well enough to know when they may need to provide an extra boost in height.
Benefit: If you are below a friendly target and you make a jump check to reach their height, they may use a standard action to allow you to make an additional jump check from their height to continue moving upward.
Special: For someone to assist you with this, you must have used Lancet in at least 5 encounters with them.

BOUNCING OFF THE WALLS
Prerequisite: Lancet class feature, New Gravity limit break
When making grand leaps in confined spaces, you use your momentum and the walls to your advantage.
Benefit: When you have the New Gravity limit break active, if you make a Lancet attack, the bonus increases by one die type when leaping from a wall or ceiling (+1d8 instead of +1d6). If the ceiling is more than 30 feet above your target, increase the die type by two.

[Morph Bark]

Level 2 Limits
Ancient Circle:
Yourself and all allies within 30 feet gain DR5 against any attacks from enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the encounter.

Dragon Killer:
You gain an untyped bonus to damage equal to your WIS modifier against enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the battle.

Level 3 Limits
Improved Ancient Circle:
As Ancient Circle, but the DR increases to 10.

Level 5 Limits
Dragon Lord:
You become immune to any breath attacks made by enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of this encounter.

Ancient Circle is perfect and fitting. I'll put Improved Ancient Circle at level 4 though.

Dragon Killer also sounds like it'd work for a Limit Monk.

Dragon Lord is flavourful and works, but let's have it affect all breath weapons, not just dragons'... or enemies' for that matter. :smallwink:



NEW FEATS
ALLEY-OOP!
Prerequisites: Lancet class feature, DEX 13
Your teammates know you well enough to know when they may need to provide an extra boost in height.
Benefit: If you are below a friendly target and you make a jump check to reach their height, they may use a standard action to allow you to make an additional jump check from their height to continue moving upward.
Special: For someone to assist you with this, you must have used Lancet in at least 5 encounters with them.

Cloud as a Limit Dragoon 1/Limit Knight X? I like that thought!


BOUNCING OFF THE WALLS
Prerequisite: Lancet class feature, New Gravity limit break
When making grand leaps in confined spaces, you use your momentum and the walls to your advantage.
Benefit: When you have the New Gravity limit break active, if you make a Lancet attack, the bonus increases by one die type when leaping from a wall or ceiling (+1d8 instead of +1d6). If the ceiling is more than 30 feet above your target, increase the die type by two.

Fitting and appropriate. Adding that!

I think I'll also add feats with that increases max Lancet damage or allows it to do other things, á la Sneak Attack feats.

[The-Mage-King]

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

Yeah, well, you made good classes with an interesting system of abilities.

Maybe you should repost the lot of them, and the Keyblade Master as well...

Not like anyone already was planning to start up Project Kingdom Hearts Homebrew...

*Whistles innocently*

[Fable Wright]

I really like this class, and the limit break system, but I have one question: When you use your lancet class feature, and jump, say, 40ft in the air. Do you take the normal 8d6 points of falling damage from it?

[firemagehao]

After 10th level, Safe landing should take care of the damage, and taking damage only helps your limit gauge.

[Morph Bark]

I really like this class, and the limit break system, but I have one question: When you use your lancet class feature, and jump, say, 40ft in the air. Do you take the normal 8d6 points of falling damage from it?

After 10th level, Safe landing should take care of the damage, and taking damage only helps your limit gauge.

The idea was that when using Lancet you don't take falling damage - basically Jump starts functioning differently when using it, kind-of. (And you only take 1d6 per 10 feet fallen, not per 5.)

I'll edit that in to make it all clear. I wonder though... should I also allow them to take the damage from the fall if they choose to take it?


I also added four new feats: All the Way Through, Distant Lancet, Knock Out the Magic and Made Holey.

[DracoDei]

Well, I CERTAINLY wouldn't allow any sort of self-inflicted damage to count for the gauge. I suppose that allowing them to take damage if they want to for some obscure reason would be OK, but off-hand I can't think of any legitimate reasons for it to come up.

[Nidogg]

Could someone post a link to the original limit break classes? Also I would like to contribute a few feats/ breaks if I may...

[IcarusWings]

There's one in the OP

[Morph Bark]

Well, I CERTAINLY wouldn't allow any sort of self-inflicted damage to count for the gauge. I suppose that allowing them to take damage if they want to for some obscure reason would be OK, but off-hand I can't think of any legitimate reasons for it to come up.

Of course. Hm, I think I'll add that Lancet must have a creature as a target, else it won't work. Something about the Dragoon's mind being focused on their quarry allowing them to power their leg muscles like no tomorrow.


Could someone post a link to the original limit break classes? Also I would like to contribute a few feats/ breaks if I may...

There is, as IcarusWings said, one in the first post of the thread. However, it is an old thread and it is on the WotC forums in the 3.5 area, so not likely to be checked in weeks of time even. I suppose we could try to convince Animana to repost the Limit classes on GiantITP though, and you could then make those suggestions.

Or, y'know, you can just suggest them here. :smallwink:


...and if you meant you wanted to contribute feats/breaks for the Limit Dragoon then allow myself to derpfacepalm and tell you "go ahead!" :smalltongue:

[DracoDei]

Of course. Hm, I think I'll add that Lancet must have a creature as a target, else it won't work. Something about the Dragoon's mind being focused on their quarry allowing them to power their leg muscles like no tomorrow.


That... seems to be solving the wrong problem to me. Just specify "damage from an ENEMY" and be done with it. Sure it is a bit tricky to word, but it isn't like that isn't a problem that has been solved many many times in the past (so look them up?).

And not being able to jump around out of combat just seems to remove a lot of the awesome from this class.

[Nidogg]

NEW LIMIT BREAK lvl5
Hammer it in
Make a jump ckeck to deal lancet damge. Thendo another jump check. If that jump check exceeds the first jump check-7 then you do it again. Keep making these checks untill you fail or a natural 20. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured.

Also what happens to dragoons on planes where gravity is subjectional?

[The-Mage-King]

I suppose we could try to convince Animana to repost the Limit classes on GiantITP though, and you could then make those suggestions.

I nominate this suggestion! We convince Animana to repost the Limit classes and the Keyblade Wielder class over here!

All in favor?

[IcarusWings]

I nominate this suggestion! We convince Animana to repost the Limit classes and the Keyblade Wielder class over here!

All in favor?

AAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEE!!!!!

[Fable Wright]

New Limit Breaks
Level 3 Limit Breaks
Defy the Earth:
For 1 round/level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed. Additionally, when you use your lancet ability, you get a bonus on your jump check equal to your base land speed.

Level 4 Limit Breaks
Dimensional Step:
As an immediate action, you may use Dimension Door, as the spell, on your self. If you end up adjacent to an opponent when you use this ability, you may make an attack as a swift action against that opponent.

Level 6 Limit Breaks:
Dimensional Flurry:
For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points to teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.

[Animana]

To all of those that are worried about your Limit Gauge filling too quickly from falls and such, I did put this in the Limit Gauge description: You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.

I suppose I could have worded it better. Perhaps change it to, You only count damage taken in battle from hostile enemies. Any damage received from non-hostile enemies, such as traps, friendly fire, or falling damage, do not count towards your limit break.

I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

[The-Mage-King]

I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

YES!

Our request has been answered!

[Morph Bark]

That... seems to be solving the wrong problem to me. Just specify "damage from an ENEMY" and be done with it. Sure it is a bit tricky to word, but it isn't like that isn't a problem that has been solved many many times in the past (so look them up?).

And not being able to jump around out of combat just seems to remove a lot of the awesome from this class.

To all of those that are worried about your Limit Gauge filling too quickly from falls and such, I did put this in the Limit Gauge description: You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.

I suppose I could have worded it better. Perhaps change it to, You only count damage taken in battle from hostile enemies. Any damage received from non-hostile enemies, such as traps, friendly fire, or falling damage, do not count towards your limit break.

Well there's an answer. The limit stuff I put for the Limit Dragoon back when I first made it was mostly copy-pasted from the Limit Knight anyway. I'll give it a look-over tomorrow after classes and see if the wording can be made clearer (and shorter, perhaps, considering it is pretty long now).


I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

YES!

Our request has been answered!

Oh my! :smallbiggrin:


NEW LIMIT BREAK lvl5
Hammer it in
Make a jump ckeck to deal lancet damge. Thendo another jump check. If that jump check exceeds the first jump check-7 then you do it again. Keep making these checks untill you fail or a natural 20. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured.

Also what happens to dragoons on planes where gravity is subjectional?

Hmm... sounds like an idea. I'd tweak that though. Something like: "Make a Jump check for Lancet as normal and resolve Lancet as normal. Then make another Jump check. If this Jump check exceeds your previous check by 10, you perform Lancet again, but the maximum damage decreases by 1 die. Keep making these checks until you fail or roll a natural 20 for your Jump check. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured."

And if gravity is subjectional, I'd say he could use Lancet in whichever way he wanted to. (So if you could change the direction as a free action, you could technically make a whole rollercoaster ride out of your Lancet leap...)

[Fable Wright]

So... any comments about mine?:smallconfused:

[Morph Bark]

So... any comments about mine?:smallconfused:

I'm sorry, I usually reply to others' posts through multi-quote and forgot to add your post.


New Limit Breaks
Level 3 Limit Breaks
Defy the Earth:
For 1 round/level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed. Additionally, when you use your lancet ability, you get a bonus on your jump check equal to your base land speed.

Level 4 Limit Breaks
Dimensional Step:
As an immediate action, you may use Dimension Door, as the spell, on your self. If you end up adjacent to an opponent when you use this ability, you may make an attack as a swift action against that opponent.

Level 6 Limit Breaks:
Dimensional Flurry:
For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points to teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.

The first one is perfect, I'll add that one. Second one I like, though I'll rename it "dimension slip" since it just rolls off the tongue better to me. The Dimensional Flurry though... did you intend to have it enable you to make up to 20 attacks in one turn even when it is not your turn? :smallconfused: Since you could basically teleport 5 feet every time you use it (as a free action) and then attack immediately (also as a free action), you could attack someone else every time. You might not be likely to come into a 20-creature encounter a lot from an out-of-game perspective, but still.

[Fable Wright]

The first one is perfect, I'll add that one. Second one I like, though I'll rename it "dimension slip" since it just rolls off the tongue better to me. The Dimensional Flurry though... did you intend to have it enable you to make up to 20 attacks in one turn even when it is not your turn? :smallconfused: Since you could basically teleport 5 feet every time you use it (as a free action) and then attack immediately (also as a free action), you could attack someone else every time. You might not be likely to come into a 20-creature encounter a lot from an out-of-game perspective, but still.

Ah; that's where the actual mechanics come into play. If you were facing 20 creatures all lined up in a row, then yes, you get to attack 20 times. However, this was intended for a wide variety of uses. Perhaps change the wording that you can only make an attack on your turn with the ability; otherwise, it can be good for battlefield manipulation. For example, if you were facing 3 enemies, and there was 30ft between them, you could attack all of them and then move 10ft away from them, forcing them to make a move action and an attack rather than a full attack. I see (I think) what you're saying; here's my correction:

For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points you may teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). You may only take this attack if it is your turn. If you use this ability, you may not take a full attack action. Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.
[additions in bold, removals struck out.]
Is that better? It's really intended for you to be able to attack opponents, and then distance yourself somewhat. You can move a total of 100ft a turn, but you need to use if wisely. You get one attack against each opponent, and you can distance yourself from them, but it isn't too broken, I think.

[strawberryman]

Something occurs to me.

What would you get if a Dashkin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162938) (shamelessplug) became a Limit Dragoon?

[Morph Bark]

Ah; that's where the actual mechanics come into play. If you were facing 20 creatures all lined up in a row, then yes, you get to attack 20 times. However, this was intended for a wide variety of uses. Perhaps change the wording that you can only make an attack on your turn with the ability; otherwise, it can be good for battlefield manipulation. For example, if you were facing 3 enemies, and there was 30ft between them, you could attack all of them and then move 10ft away from them, forcing them to make a move action and an attack rather than a full attack. I see (I think) what you're saying; here's my correction:

For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points you may teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). You may only take this attack if it is your turn. If you use this ability, you may not take a full attack action. Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.
[additions in bold, removals struck out.]
Is that better? It's really intended for you to be able to attack opponents, and then distance yourself somewhat. You can move a total of 100ft a turn, but you need to use if wisely. You get one attack against each opponent, and you can distance yourself from them, but it isn't too broken, I think.

Much better. A little change in wording is often worth a lot and can clear up a lot of confusion. Which is why I am often afraid of being incapable of wording it the right way.


Something occurs to me.

What would you get if a Dashkin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162938) (shamelessplug) became a Limit Dragoon?

Obviously a very large power output. Dashkin Sprint could be said that by RAW it'd double your Lancet Jump check since it counts as a charge for many purposes (and no I'm not changing that for one case of homebrew before anyone asks :smalltongue:), or that you can quadruple the range at which you can jump horizontally - since for Lancet they could normally attack and land on a creature 80 ft away due to their land speed, they could through Dashkin Sprint attack someone from up to 320 feet away! Godly Leap could similarly be said to double the horizontal range at which Lancet can be used - for a staggering total of 640 feet away.

Furthermore, the damage bonus from Godly Leap would have to be calculated either from the Lancet jump check (and in fact you'd get twice as much damage out of Godly Leap as from Lancet, without limit even, while Lancet does limit it and for good reason) or for the distance of the result. If the latter would be used in combo with Dashkin Sprit and Godly Leap, you would get 640/20 = 32d6 bonus damage.

So yeah, I'd say they'd be the overpowered Limit Dragoons from the get-go and therefore would disadvise any DMs from using the combo other than high-powered campaigns with a bunch of houserules so that all players (and the DM) can still get a kick out of the game. :smalltongue:


Also, I was the only one to PEACH that?! Dang, that's harsh. And new. And awkward. :smalleek:

[Fable Wright]

One recommendation for the class: For the dragon abilities, I strongly recommend that you use the dragon's full HD for saves; if a dragon companion took intimidating presence as an ability, for example, then it would have, at level 20, a save DC of 18 or so. This could, on average, be made by characters with that as their bad save; I encourage that you beef up the save DC to the dragon's full HD.

[Morph Bark]

One recommendation for the class: For the dragon abilities, I strongly recommend that you use the dragon's full HD for saves; if a dragon companion took intimidating presence as an ability, for example, then it would have, at level 20, a save DC of 18 or so. This could, on average, be made by characters with that as their bad save; I encourage that you beef up the save DC to the dragon's full HD.

Saw the reason in that (in a way, you're still using 1/2 HD, but it's half the Limit Dragoon's HD, which is equal to the dragon's full HD), so changed it to that.

Made minor changes to the Medium and Large traits and added the Huge trait.

[firemagehao]

In the description of the Berserk ability, that person would have died from massive damage.

[Fable Wright]

At level 20, most hits would cause death from massive damage. At that level, the rule is just thrown right out the window.

[DracoDei]

Last I checked, Massive Damage was an optional rule (SRD seems to say no...), and most 20th level characters will make the save automatically anyway.

[Zaydos]

Means every hit has a 1 in 20 chance of killing (nat 1s auto-fail saves). Makes being a 20th level knight more appealing now doesn't it.

[kyoten]

Hey M-Bark have you considered putting your Limit classes in a PDF?

I have them on my old computer but having them all in a PDF would make it easier to access, use, and share with my friends. We would all enjoy playing characters based off of these classes.

[The-Mage-King]

Actually, the Limit classes are Animana's, not M-Barks.

M-Bark just made the Dragoon...


Say, Animana, how's the transporting your base classes to here going?

[kyoten]

Actually, the Limit classes are Animana's, not M-Barks.

M-Bark just made the Dragoon...


Say, Animana, how's the transporting your base classes to here going?

Then I wish to apologize for my mistake.

[Morph Bark]

Admittably, even if they were all my work, I don't know one bit about how to make PDF files.


Say, Animana, how's the transporting your base classes to here going?

I think you better ask him that question in a PM to his account on the WotC forums rather than here, as I doubt he frequents this board as much as we do, let alone this topic.

[The-Mage-King]

Admittably, even if they were all my work, I don't know one bit about how to make PDF files.

Oh, it's quite simple, really. All you need to do is get an program to save a Word doc to pdf, set it up, and just select pdf from the choose to save as thing...


I think you better ask him that question in a PM to his account on the WotC forums rather than here, as I doubt he frequents this board as much as we do, let alone this topic.

I think I'll do that.

TMK, away!

[nerd-7i+e]

One problem: To make the 10d6 lancet attack, you'll need to jump 100 feet in the are, meaning a DC 100 jump check. Let's say you have max ranks in jump, a +2 Str modifier, the Acrobatic, Run, and Skill Focus (Jump) feats, 5+ ranks in Tumble, and was a halfling. That's a +58 modifier (+20 for Leap of Faith, +23 for max ranks, +2 for Str, +2 for Acrobatic, +4 for Run, +3 for Skill Focus [Jump], +2 from synergy, and +2 for being a halfling). Even with a natural 20, it would be impossible to make that jump, so later levels don't add much as far as lancet is concerned (the maximum bonus to damage would be +7d6, with a result of 12+).

[Morph Bark]

One problem: To make the 10d6 lancet attack, you'll need to jump 100 feet in the are, meaning a DC 100 jump check. Let's say you have max ranks in jump, a +2 Str modifier, the Acrobatic, Run, and Skill Focus (Jump) feats, 5+ ranks in Tumble, and was a halfling. That's a +58 modifier (+20 for Leap of Faith, +23 for max ranks, +2 for Str, +2 for Acrobatic, +4 for Run, +3 for Skill Focus [Jump], +2 from synergy, and +2 for being a halfling). Even with a natural 20, it would be impossible to make that jump, so later levels don't add much as far as lancet is concerned (the maximum bonus to damage would be +7d6, with a result of 12+).

If at level 20 you'd have a Strength of no more than 15 when you're kinda required to focus on it, you're not doing it right. Furthermore, Jump is one of the easiest skills to get magic items or grafts for to boost it. Pre-epic the highest bonus a magic item can give you is +30. You also get bonuses if you have the Run feat or a high speed (which is a reason I considered giving the Limit Dragoon speed bonuses). You can also get your dragon companion up to a large enough size to carry you and simply drop you from a great height, or use a Jump-boosting Limit break (of which there are several - some others boost Strength, which in turn also boosts Jump).

All in all, Jump is one of the easiest skills to boost high up. Be it through items, grafts, spells, powers, maneuvers or otherwise. Heck, the haste spell alone gives a +12 bonus to Jump due to the fact every +10 foot movement speed gives a +4 bonus to Jump.

[nerd-7i+e]

If at level 20 you'd have a Strength of no more than 15 when you're kinda required to focus on it, you're not doing it right.

Okay, let's say a +4 bonus. That will only barely allow you to do 8d6.


Furthermore, Jump is one of the easiest skills to get magic items or grafts for to boost it. Pre-epic the highest bonus a magic item can give you is +30.

Class progressions should be useful even without magic items.


You also get bonuses if you have the Run feat

Factored into my analysis.


or a high speed (which is a reason I considered giving the Limit Dragoon speed bonuses).

Unless this class is made for non-core races, that requires the player to take levels in other classes. With the exception of prestige classes, players should not be required to take levels in other classes for a given class to be useful.


You can also get your dragon companion up to a large enough size to carry you and simply drop you from a great height,

By 20th level, your dragon will have 10 HD. Now imagine the sheer number of attacks of opportunity it'd provoke for grabbing you and flying up! That's at least one attack of opportunity, two depending on whether or not the foe has Combat Reflexes. A 10 HD dragon against two attacks of opportunity a turn by a CR 20 monster? Good luck. Unless you intend to jump back up onto the dragon, but that would mean you'd only get two lancets per three rounds (see below).


or use a Jump-boosting Limit break (of which there are several - some others boost Strength, which in turn also boosts Jump).

Does activating a limit break take any time? I would think (although it may somewhere say otherwise) that it's a standard action. Since lancet is a full-round action, that means you can make two 10d6 lancets per three rounds. In that case, you may as well just make non-aided jumps; you'll almost certainly get 6d6 damage in, with a 40% chance of 7d6. And if we stop being pessimistic and say that the dragoon's Str bonus is 4+, he at least breaks even between 6d6 and 7d6. Now if the bonus is 5+, he'll probably get two 7d6's and a 6d6, which is the same as 2 10d6's, and this way you don't have to expend your limit gauge.

[Fable Wright]

There is a feat in this thread. It is called Alley-oop. You have your dragon delay his action to right before your turn, and then fly some distance, say 50ft, in the air above you. You jump, use alley-oop, and then if you can make a DC 50 jump check (easy at this level), twice, you get to make the lancet. It's not that hard.

[nerd-7i+e]

Oh. Never mind. Since that's so important at higher levels, you may want to give it as a bonus feat.

[Morph Bark]

Okay, let's say a +4 bonus. That will only barely allow you to do 8d6.

Let's say you start with a 15, since you will want to put your highest stat in Strength (or Con, but working with elite array that only lowers it by 1, and roll methods are usually geared towards the higher end). +5 from levels gives you 20. Using a magic item (belt of giant strength, 36000) you'd get +6 pre-epic easily. That's 26 for a +8 modifier. I'm keeping out the Manual of Gainful Exercise, since that doesn't always see play.


Class progressions should be useful even without magic items.

I'm of the opinion that no class, besides spellcasters and manifesters that get 9th level spells or powers, can function properly at level 20 if they only have mundane items. Creatures with flight, high AC or other tricks and goodies are just too hard to deal with.


By 20th level, your dragon will have 10 HD. Now imagine the sheer number of attacks of opportunity it'd provoke for grabbing you and flying up! That's at least one attack of opportunity, two depending on whether or not the foe has Combat Reflexes. A 10 HD dragon against two attacks of opportunity a turn by a CR 20 monster? Good luck. Unless you intend to jump back up onto the dragon, but that would mean you'd only get two lancets per three rounds (see below).

Hence why a Limit Dragoon shouldn't be stupid and do that while either of them is in melee, or be flying on his dragon before the fight even begins.


Does activating a limit break take any time? I would think (although it may somewhere say otherwise) that it's a standard action. Since lancet is a full-round action, that means you can make two 10d6 lancets per three rounds. In that case, you may as well just make non-aided jumps; you'll almost certainly get 6d6 damage in, with a 40% chance of 7d6. And if we stop being pessimistic and say that the dragoon's Str bonus is 4+, he at least breaks even between 6d6 and 7d6. Now if the bonus is 5+, he'll probably get two 7d6's and a 6d6, which is the same as 2 10d6's, and this way you don't have to expend your limit gauge.

"Unless otherwise stated, all Limit Breaks are extraordinary abilities and are swift actions to activate."

Full-round actions only consume your standard and move action.

The only Limit break that specifically only boosts Jump is Super Jump, which is a level 1 Limit break and it gives a +20 bonus. The Lesser and Greater Fusion Limit breaks are also handy for this, especially the latter, which increases the Strength modifier by 4 and gives a +10 modifier to Jump.


So let's say we're dealing with a Joe Average Halfling you started with. He starts with 14 Strength, -2 from his race, so 12. He adds all his level increases to Strength, making it 17. He maxes Jump as any Limit Dragoon should (just like any Truenamer should max Truespeak and spellcasters should take care of their Concentration and Spellcraft). He uses Greater Fusion (taking care of those nasty AoO-ers surrounding his dragon buddy) and Super Jump the next round right before he uses Lancet.

23 ranks
+20 class bonus
+10 Greater Fusion
+20 Super Jump
+7 Strength (+3 from himself, +4 from Greater Fusion boost)
-4 speed penalty
+2 Jump bonus
= +78 total.

On an average roll, he'll hit 88. There's a 45% chance he'll hit 90 or higher. Without magic items or buffs he won't hit 100, but a Halfling is a very sub-optimal choice for a Limit Dragoon anyway. If it had been an Orc, also core and LA+0, the bonus would've been +80, and then it would still have been likely that his pre-racial adjustment Strength score was higher than a mere 14.

There, all prior to using magic items.


EDIT: Or that. Geez, could I have saved my time? :smalltongue: No matter though. Still, this shows Alley-Oop isn't quite as necessary, but it is a very good feat for a Limit Dragoon to take.

[Morph Bark]

Added two new feats to the second post: the Dragoon of Nature and the Dragoon Arcanist.

[Morph Bark]

Looking back at the Limit classes, especially my own, I realize that many of them are still too weak. This is primarily because of how much damage they have to take before they can utilize their special abilities. This makes them WANT to take damage, but at the same time that puts them into too much danger of death.

I'm considering granting the Limit Dragoon some scaling DR or in-combat Fast Healing, and increasing the heal from Refreshing Wind to 1d8, perhaps granting it as a free Limit Break even. Any thoughts on this, or thoughts of newer members on this 5 year old class as a whole?

[Eldaran]

Well, I'm quite fond of the class. Having run one as an NPC on two different occasions they're actually very durable. I've been hoping one of my players will try the class, but no luck so far.

While they start off slightly weak, once they get Battle Fortification as a level 2 limit they become much tougher. The ability to gain 5*level in temps potentially every single round is amazing. The limit cost is low enough that even though you only gain half points while the temps are up you can use it at will.

DR I find wouldn't fit too well with a class that wants to take damage, but some limited fast healing (either per day limit or only up to half total hp) would be useful. Another option would be a Martial Spirit style healing, where they heal a certain amount per attack made, though that would discourage use of Lancet. But overall I really don't think they need it.

The one area I find the class lacking is in the dragon. It has great abilities, and is a fun addition, but the stats are just so low. Maybe I tend to play high powered games, but 12/10/12/9/9/9 is horrendous compared to even the mediocre elite array. Obviously they get good stats as they go up in size, but that takes a long time and is at the cost of other choices. In particular it becomes problematic with their ability to cast spells or use powers, their mental stats are so low they can't really do anything without a magic item.

A possible solution to the dragon stat issue would be to base their stats off the dragoon's stats. So if you have 18/14/16/12/12/10 as your starting pre-racial stats you could assign those in any order to your dragon. It would result is a nice bit of customization and keep them relevant in any campaign.

[Amechra]

You could toss them a bone on Limit generation by giving them, say, 1 Limit a round starting, say, 3rd level, and then increase that by 1 every 4 levels thereafter.

Heck, you could start 'em off with +1 Limit each round, and then increase it by 1 every 2 levels thereafter.

Sure, at 19th level it would mean they could get off a Level 2 Limit every round, but it wouldn't take over from taking hits for your main limit gain.

Just have it be at the end of each round, and you are all good.

I do have some worries about the Dragoon of Nature feat; if I go Dragoon 2/Druid 3, for example, my Dragon Companion already has 3 HD. If I grab the Natural Bond feat and grab two more levels in Dragoon (because hey, rad powers), I have a 6 HD dragon already.

In other words, a Dragoon 2/Druid 3/Dragoon +2/Druid +8 gets me a Huge dragon pal 5 levels early.

Which, quite frankly, is cool, and I don't think it is too imbalanced...

I just think that, to keep it more in line with Dragoon Arcanist, it should work with Wild Cohorts (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) instead, mainly because then it scales a lot smoother. Just have it replace the normal HD growth that the Dragon would get through class levels, and everything should be dandy.

[Harmonixer3500]

I'm perfectly fine with you using my Limit Break system. And, seriously, feel free to mess with it all you want. It's by no means definitive. Just for the record, there was a fair-sized group that did quite a bit of playtesting with it and it turned out to be more or less fair, with the exception of the Limit Mage, but I'll not go into that.

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

I've read through the thread and I like it. I'd like to contribute a few feats and/or limit breaks for the class once I get some time if it's alright with M-Bark.

I'm a big fan of your work. In fact I was really mad that the Wizards forums were brought down at the same time my hard drive got wrecked so I no longer know of any way to get your original Limit Warriors so if you know of any where else that the classes are posted I would love to hear it. Thank you very much.