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View Full Version : [4e] How to make a meleelock?



Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-19, 09:55 PM
One of my favorite character build/concept in 3.5 was the melee-lock (usually through hellfire glaive but I toyed a few times with eldritch claws), now since my Hexlock (assassin | warlock hybrid) was one round from kicking the bucket and the DM said the following encounters would be as hard/dangerous as that encounter, I think a backup character might be in order.

Level 6, drawing completely from the builder which AFAIK is up to date.

My first thought was using eldritch strike and high con on a hellock, but I don't have idea on how to improve that.

Any ideas?

Thajocoth
2010-09-19, 10:07 PM
Eldtritch Strike - It's a melee basic at-will.

Shadowdance Leather Armor - And now none of your ranged spells provoke, so you can use them all in melee.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-19, 10:13 PM
Thanks, that is a start; but I was hopping for a bit more advice.

for race I am leaning towards Half-Elf, bonus to cha and con seems the best I can get unless there are other races which would benefit my character more?

RebelRogue
2010-09-19, 10:15 PM
Eldtritch Strike - It's a melee basic at-will.
What is the source of this? I can't seem to find it.

cupkeyk
2010-09-19, 10:17 PM
Actually my advice is to not take eldritch strike. Use teh shadowdance armor and use a normal warlock build at very close range. There are a lot of close burst and close blast powers.

what exactly do you have in mind?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-19, 10:17 PM
What is the source of this? I can't seem to find it.

My builder says PH Heroes: Series 1 (no idea what that is)

Mando Knight
2010-09-19, 10:17 PM
You might want to wait until a few more Essentials books roll around... one of the Warlock builds there is the "Hexblade" melee build.

In the meantime, look into Battlemind multiclass. It's the only other Con-primary class in the game, and all it does is melee.

Other Warlock-friendly melee multiclasses:
Swordmage. Many Warlocks have Int as their secondary score, and Con is one of the Swordmage's secondary scores.
Paladin. The go-to class for Charisma-based melee, especially if you want a blend of Defender and Leader. (The powers with a dash of Striker tend to use Strength instead)
Bard. Charisma-based Leader, with some melee powers. Con and Int are secondaries.
Ardent. Fully melee Charisma-based Leader. One build is Con-secondary.
Sorcerer. Dragon #390 has several melee powers, and the class also has several Close powers to go with them.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-19, 10:19 PM
Actually my advice is to not take eldritch strike. Use teh shadowdance armor and use a normal warlock build at very close range. There are a lot of close burst and close blast powers.

what exactly do you have in mind?

A character that wades into melee as primary form of combat, but can occasionally uses ranged attacks.


You might want to wait until a few more Essentials books roll around... one of the Warlock builds there is the "Hexblade" melee build.

In the meantime, look into Battlemind multiclass. It's the only other Con-primary class in the game, and all it does is melee.

Other Warlock-friendly melee multiclasses:
Swordmage. Many Warlocks have Int as their secondary score, and Con is one of the Swordmage's secondary scores.
Paladin. The go-to class for Charisma-based melee, especially if you want a blend of Defender and Leader. (The powers with a dash of Striker tend to use Strength instead)
Bard. Charisma-based Leader, with some melee powers. Con and Int are secondaries.
Ardent. Fully melee Charisma-based Leader. One build is Con-secondary.
Sorcerer. Dragon #390 has several melee powers, and the class also has several Close powers to go with them.

Thanks I will look into them more closely

Thajocoth
2010-09-19, 10:29 PM
Actually my advice is to not take eldritch strike. Use teh shadowdance armor and use a normal warlock build at very close range. There are a lot of close burst and close blast powers.

what exactly do you have in mind?

Having Eldtritch Strike means being able to take OAs. I mean, you CAN without it, but then you're using your Str, which sucks. Eldtritch Strike is a melee weapon attack... So you'll likely be using a Pact Blade if you take it. Eldrtitch Strike replaces Eldritch Blast. If you're Human, you can have both.

RebelRogue
2010-09-19, 10:32 PM
My builder says PH Heroes: Series 1 (no idea what that is)
A bit of searching shows it's from a minis pack, and it's avaiable here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20090408a

I suppose it replaces the Eldritch Blast power, right?

cupkeyk
2010-09-19, 10:52 PM
dwarves can use hammers and eladrin can use longswords, in case the light blade dpr of pact blades seems meager

Thajocoth
2010-09-19, 10:59 PM
dwarves can use hammers and eladrin can use longswords, in case the light blade dpr of pact blades seems meager

Elves can use pact bows too... But not for melee, so I guess that's kinda useless.

cupkeyk
2010-09-19, 11:40 PM
Still, its an alternate feat tax since non dwarves/elves will get rapier for their pact blade if they want a higher W dice.

ghost_warlock
2010-09-19, 11:46 PM
I've got a couple meleelocks I've used and had a good time with them. Builds are quite similar, though.

Gronk the Hater; dwarf hexhammer (note that it's slightly equipment-dependent - pacthammer)

== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ==
Gronk the Hater, level 4
Dwarf, Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Vestige Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Hammer)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Rod)
Background: Cat Burglar (Cat Burglar Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 20, Dex 11, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 17, Dex 11, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 18 Fort: 18 Reflex: 17 Will: 16
HP: 47 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Insight +9, Athletics +8, Thievery +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +9, Heal +4, History +5, Intimidate +1, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +5, Stealth +2, Streetwise +1

FEATS
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Melee Training (Constitution)
Level 4: Cursed Shot

POWERS
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast
Warlock At-will: Eyes of the Vestige
Warlock encounter 1: Clarion Call
Warlock daily 1: Armor of Agathys
Warlock utility 2: Ethereal Stride
Warlock encounter 3: Fiery Bolt

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Thieves' Tools, Shadowdance Leather Armor +1, Pact Hammer Warhammer +1, Rod of Corruption +1, Cloak of Distortion +1, Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (3)


Hassur; human "hexblade"


== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ==
Hassar, level 2
Human, Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Vestige Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Rod)
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Background: Geography - Desert (Endurance class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 16 Reflex: 16 Will: 13
HP: 35 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Thievery +7, History +9, Religion +9, Arcana +9, Endurance +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering +1, Heal +1, Insight +1, Intimidate, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth +2, Streetwise, Athletics +1

FEATS
Human: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Eldritch Blast
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Strike
Warlock At-will: Eyes of the Vestige
Warlock encounter 1: Clarion Call
Warlock daily 1: Armor of Agathys
Warlock utility 2: Ethereal Stride

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Thieves' Tools, Bastard sword, Magic Leather Armor +1, Rod Implement, Climber's Kit


I tend to prefer vestige pact over infernal because my playstyle favors buffing allies over focusing on gaining temp-hp. Infernal may be somewhat more optimal if you're taking a heavy beating, though.

Hassur has Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade) so he can pick up Dual Implement Expertise later on and wield a sword and rod. Gronk can't afford the Dex to nab Dual Implement until epic.

Gronk uses Melee Training (Con) + pact hammer to do MBA's while Hassur picked up Eldritch Strike.

Spamotron
2010-09-20, 12:08 AM
The Hexhammer warlock was one of the very first 4e builds on the Wizard's D&D CO boards. Read this thread to learn just about anything you'd want to know about melee warlocks http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19646482/Hexhammer_Gish?pg=1

ghost_warlock
2010-09-20, 12:17 AM
The Hexhammer warlock was one of the very first 4e builds on the Wizard's D&D CO boards. Read this thread to learn just about anything you'd want to know about melee warlocks http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19646482/Hexhammer_Gish?pg=1

Note that, with regards to power selection, that's somewhat out of date. Still some good advice there, though.

Of course, with luck, the Essentials hexblade build will add some tasty tricks + paragon path(s) to the meleelock.

OP: Also, you may want to look into the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. The sorcerer king pact has a number of new powers that can be used either at range and/or in melee (melee touch, IIRC, so you can't use a weapon for the attack, but they're certain versatile anyway).

DragonBaneDM
2010-09-20, 12:25 AM
While I like the sample builds, I believe Hellock would work better.

The THP is great for being in melee, as are the unlockable benefits to powers for having the Infernal Pacts.

RebelRogue
2010-09-20, 12:30 AM
What about paragon paths? This thread has made me fiddle a bit with a dwarf infernalock just for fun, and it seems the Firstborn of Moradin PP may actually work rather well.

ghost_warlock
2010-09-20, 12:34 AM
While I like the sample builds, I believe Hellock would work better.

The THP is great for being in melee, as are the unlockable benefits to powers for having the Infernal Pacts.

Yeah, vestige is mostly a playstyle thing. Note, however, that the vestige pact benefits are also quite nice. Clarion Call, for instance, is a level 1 encounter close blast 3 that, for vestige pact locks, grants stackable THP for every enemy hit by the power.

DragonBaneDM
2010-09-20, 12:36 AM
Hm... I can't think of anything better than Life-Stealer, since you could potentially use a soul shard to heal yourself. Hellbringer's encounter hurts you if you're melee, so that's right out.

Other than that competition, your Firstborn idea has merit.

ghost_warlock
2010-09-20, 12:47 AM
What about paragon paths? This thread has made me fiddle a bit with a dwarf infernalock just for fun, and it seems the Firstborn of Moradin PP may actually work rather well.

Unfortunately, most of the warlock paragon paths have only ranged powers. There's a few that have close bursts or blasts - at least one of the fey pact paragon paths and a few of the vestige paragon paths do, in any case. Astral Ascendant, I think, has some healing/THP. IIRC, Tharos Impostor (Forgotten Realms) is the only warlock-specific paragon path that has weapon attacks.

Of course, that's why the hex hammer build in the WotC board link Spamotron posted suggests multiclassing fighter and going into a fighter paragon path.

Will have to check the Dark Sun book and see if there's a paragon path in there that'd be appropriate. Would likely be sorcerer king pact only, though. Nope, has two templar paragon paths, but no sorcerer king warlock paragon paths.

Delivery Ninja
2010-09-20, 01:38 AM
Will have to check the Dark Sun book and see if there's a paragon path in there that'd be appropriate. Would likely be sorcerer king pact only, though. Nope, has two templar paragon paths, but no sorcerer king warlock paragon paths.

Actually, Praetor Legate's prerequisites are the Templar theme or the Sorceror-King Pact. It was pretty much made to go with the Kinglock, too, so it wouldn't be a bad choice.

ShaggyMarco
2010-09-20, 06:05 AM
My advice:

Go human hybrid (any con-pact) Warlock/ (assault) Swordmage and wield a Fullblade.

Pump Con and Int. Even though you are assault, ignore your strength. Take your Pact at-will, whichever swordmage power you like, and Eldritch Strike as your bonus at-will. Hybrid Talent to get the full Hell-Pact.

This way, you can use your swordmage aegis to teleport around, making Eldritch Strikes as your MBAs. You should be kept in decent Temp HP/bonus to attacks/vestige abilities from your pact. Since Eldritch Strike is a Warlock power, you can add Warlock Damage on your Aegis attack if you havn't used it yet in the round.

Take good Close blast/burst warlock powers and then Swordmage powers that rely on Con as a secondary stat (even though you are Assault Aegis).

The effect can actually more of a close/melee controller than a striker or a defender, if you end up focusing on both of your class's secondary role: controller.

wizuriel
2010-09-20, 08:58 AM
I would also recommend a warlock|swordmage hybrid. Not sure if I would use hybrid talent on swordmage warding or for the warlock pact. Swordmage warding is an easy way to get some AC. I went with con int for my stats so went with a vestiege pact binding and find the pact bonus kind of meh for what I wanted. Not sure if infernal is worth it without adding cha to my build.

For a feat I really recommend White Lotus Riposte. Makes a nice catch 22 (especially if used with hellish rebuke power).

Avernian Knight is also pretty nice paragon option for the meleelock.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-20, 09:08 AM
I would really not recommend a warlock|swordmage hybrid, primarily because warlock powers key off con and cha, and swordmages don't. Besides, the warlock doesn't need swordmage warding to boost his AC; warlocks have shadow walk and generate so much temp HP it's not even funny.

Rather, do this: infernalock with hellish rebuke and eldritch strike (ranged and melee capable), then that feat that triggers your pact twice. This and an 18+ con should give you a LOT of durability. As soon as you hit paragon, add double curse and shared pact feats, which means that every enemy on the board will generate ~15 THP for the party member of your choice, twice.

ShaggyMarco
2010-09-20, 01:27 PM
There are enough (especially infernal) warlock powers that key off of Con and Int, that ignoring Charisma as a Warlock is really easy. There are enough Swordmage powers which key off of Intelligence and Constitution that the blend seems pretty good.

I've certainly never noticed a lack of feat support or power selection as I've leveled up. It's been my experience that, other than Starlocks (and even they have workarounds), you don't need good Charisma AND Constitution to be effective, just one or the other.

If you keep Constitution and Intelligence between 16 and 18 to start, with all of your points dumped there , and then stick a point or two in Wisdom or Charisma just to round out your Will save, you'll be okay.

My Human Hybrid Swordlock (Star Pact) had a 10, 18, 10, 18, 8, 13 array at level 6, with decent defenses (20, 19, 19, 18) with a +13 v AC/+10 v NAD attack bonus. I know that Infernal would probably be better, and definitely tougher, but Star fit my character better and works okay.

Spoiler on my SwordlockHe's an Eberron character (Connor d'Orien) who protects travelers and is always guided by "the stars." He's functionally the party controller. At Paragon tier, I have a nice thing going on positioning the enemy right where we want them, handing out all sorts of bonuses from Pact Boons/Shared Pact, and teleporting my allies around the field with Two-Fold (Fey...I ignore eyebite) Pact and Shared Pact. I deal decent damage, have great maneuverability, and can help keep the party moving around with my rituals

The no-OA armor with straight-up Warlock works too (heck, provoke those OAs and become good friends with your friendly defender to give him bonus attacks/damage!) as an Infernal Gnoll Warlock was my first 4ed PC, and was, by far, MVP in KotS's Irontooth fight. Temp HP, Armor of Agathys, and granting lots of free attacks to the fighter FTW!

EDIT: Since level 6 is what you are looking for, I looked up my stats at level 6 and added where my PC is now!

aeauseth
2010-09-21, 05:24 PM
Go Eldritch Diciple (Cleric/Warlock), add in Hellfire Warlock if you like. For extra power go Divine Metamagic and persist buffs as you see fit. This is pretty much a Tier 1 build with lots of flexibility.

Need AC? Go Luminous Armor (BoED) (need Chaotic Good alignment) + Monks Belt + Sheild (Need ACF Divine Magician). Need a level of Binder or Rod of Restoration to deal with BoED spells and/or Hellfire Warlock.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-21, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the advice but this is for 4e:smallwink:

Meta
2010-09-23, 02:21 PM
the tiefling warlock/paladins have absolutely awesome mechanical and fluffy support.