herrhauptmann
2010-09-19, 10:31 PM
A while back I was getting set to participate in a game where the DM included a few houserules (mostly irrelevant to my character idea), and stated his preferences regarding dipping into multiple classes. Primarily: Don't do it. I'm also willing to bet someones soul, as well as my own money that the game wouldn't require high levels of optimization. And I was to start at level 7.
Books allowed: PHB, Complete Series (except champion), DMG, MiC (I think).
My initial idea was an ubercharger with a minotaur greathammer, and the feat Deadly Concussion, assuming that Deadly Concussion gave an exception to the standard rule of not being able to sunder armor. So my question became a matter of what to take afterwards. Weapon focus tree didn't interest me, and psionics and ToB aren't allowed. I decided to ask about taking Abjurant Champion (requires a wiz/sorc dip), or Horizon Walker.
Full thread here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166286
Well the DM seems to have canceled the game. But I wanted to finish and post these builds anyway, using what I know he would allow, and what I expect would be ok. And of course I hope to get some feedback.
-So 1 variant included the exotic weapon master who eventually goes to Horizon Walker, another went abjurant champion to eldritch knight.
The Exotic Weapon master is based around the assumption that Deadly Concussion provides an exception to the rule that you can't sunder armor worn. Should a DM nix that idea, that'll free up 3 feats and 2 levels (Exotic Weap Prof, Deadly concussion, Weapon Focus, and 2 levels in EWM)
The builds are intended to be usable from level 7 onwards, but could be played from level 1, rather than a build like Jack B Quick which rather sucks until level 7 or 8, and doesn't get good until 12 or later.
************************************************** ******* *************************
Fighter 1, Bard 1, Fighter 2-8, EWM 2, Ranger 1, Horizon 8 I could swap fighter 1 and bard for extra skill points, and bard of course is the dip the DM nixed. So if the bard dip is vetoed too, I rearrange the order of EWP, Weapon Focus, and Deadly Concussion. That bard level becomes a level in ranger, and ideally I take ranger 2 at start, and use a different weapon style from Dragon Magazine. That'll free a few feats.
Ftr2/Brd1/Ftr8/EWM2/Rgr1/HW8
Bab 19 Fort: 17 Ref: 8 Will: 6
Str 17 18 19 20
Dex-12
Con-15 16
Int-14
Wis-11 12
Cha-10
Feats:
1) Power attack
H1)Cleave
F1)Imp Bullrush
F2)Imp Sunder
3) Deadly concussion
F4) EWP: Minotaur Greathammer
6)leap attack
F6)Shocktrooper
F8) Combat brute
9)Weapon focus
EWM Tricks: Exotic sunder, Trip attack
12)Endurance
15)
18)
Horizon walker terrain: Underground, Desert, Plains, Mountain, Aquatic,
Planar terrain: Shifting, Aligned (Evil), Cavernous
items: (partial wishlist for later levels)
+X Valorous Smoking Minotaur greathammer (+2 cost) +3k for adamantine, +5k for starmetal, +9K for gold/platinum (which will require another +1 of magic enhancements, or a feat), everbright
Belt of giant strength and belt of battle
Strongarm bracers
+X Armor (probably breastplate) mithril is +4k, Blueshine/durable, soulfire, retaliation, healing,
Custom boots of haste. As the spell, 5 rounds per use, infinite use. Approx 27k
Hewards haversack
Cloak of resistance
Fighter 1 (armored mage ACF), Abjurer 1 (immediate magic ACF), Fighter 2-6, Abjurant champ 5, and Eldritch knight 8?
Ftr6/Wiz1/AbjChamp/5/EK8
Bab 19, CL 19 (21 for abjuration), Fort: 12 Ref: 5 Will: 10 and spells per day as a 13th level abjurer
-There's probably other, easy entry Gish PrC's for me, but I can't think of any.
-Losing my familiar via immediate magic might suck, but weakening the spells coming at me should help make up for the sucky reflex save I'll have.
-Keeping the smoking weapon for miss chances, even with the high AC I'll get from Luminous armor + shield, I'm still going to get hit a lot due to shocktrooper.
Str 1718
Dex-12
Con-15
Int-14 15 16 17 18
Wis-11
Cha-10
Feats:
1) Power attack
H1)Cleave
F1)Imp Bullrush
F2)Imp Sunder
3) Collegiate wizard (learns 4 spells per level, rather than 2, right?)
F4) Leap attack
6) Combat casting
F6)Shocktrooper
9)Combat Brute
12)Magic disruption (CM)
EK1)
15)
18) Mystic backlash (CM)
-It would be nice if Abj Champ's extended and swift abjuration class abilities let me qualify for feats as if I had the extend or quicken metamagic feats. Even if I could only use those other metamagics on my abjuration spells.
Spells:
All 0th,
9 1st: Shield, Detect Magic, Read magic, Nerveskitter, fist of stone
8 2nd: Wraithstrike, rope trick, silver dragonmail (CoV)
8 3rd: Dispel magic, Suggestion, Haste, Invisibility, Fly, Greater mighty wallop (ROD, if I use a bludgeoning weap), Golden dragonmail (CoV)
8 4th: Luminous armor, Dimension Door, Polymorph, Firestride Exhalation (DM),
8 5th: Acid Sheath, baleful polymorph, teleport
8 6th: Contingency, Greater Dispel, Disintegrate
8 7th:Energy Absorption, Force Cage, Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray, Reverse Gravity
items:
+X Valorous Smoking Greatsword (+2 cost) +3k for adamantine, +5k for starmetal, +9K for gold/platinum (which will require another +1 of magic enhancements, or a feat)
Belt of giant strength, combined with belt of battle
Backup slashing weapon
Backup ranged weapon
+1 Light Armor (not for the AC, but as something to hold extra enchantments). Soulfire, Agility, durable, retaliation, healing (greater)
Headband of intellect
Tunic of steady spellcasting
Custom boots of haste. As the spell, 5 rounds per use, infinite use. Approx 27k
Amulet of natural armor +1
Hewards haversack
Cloak of resistance
Questions:
1:Scintillating scales is an abjuration spell that turns my natural armor bonus into a deflection bonus. So even if my natural armor bonus is from an item, I should still get the +5 from abjurant champion right?
2:-Is there a way for a wizard to learn a normally divine spell? I was flipping through some Faerun books last night, and found a few divine abjurations that work almost as well as Luminous armor, but without the ability damage. I'd swear I also saw an arcane spell in one of them that would do the job too, but can't remember which book I saw it in. Currently I'm afraid that I might've forgotten to check for spells that actually gave a Armor or Shield bonus, rather than insight, luck, deflection etc.
3:The few casters I've played were very straightforward, so not sure if I'm interpreting something correctly. For any variable CL based effects at level 20, I cast as if I were a 19 level wizard, but I'm still restricted to my 7th level spells and below, right?
4:I've got a lot of spells known to fill out here as well. I'll look for the Swiftblade and Abj Champ handbooks later, that should be enough to fill me up.
Books allowed: PHB, Complete Series (except champion), DMG, MiC (I think).
My initial idea was an ubercharger with a minotaur greathammer, and the feat Deadly Concussion, assuming that Deadly Concussion gave an exception to the standard rule of not being able to sunder armor. So my question became a matter of what to take afterwards. Weapon focus tree didn't interest me, and psionics and ToB aren't allowed. I decided to ask about taking Abjurant Champion (requires a wiz/sorc dip), or Horizon Walker.
Full thread here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166286
Well the DM seems to have canceled the game. But I wanted to finish and post these builds anyway, using what I know he would allow, and what I expect would be ok. And of course I hope to get some feedback.
-So 1 variant included the exotic weapon master who eventually goes to Horizon Walker, another went abjurant champion to eldritch knight.
The Exotic Weapon master is based around the assumption that Deadly Concussion provides an exception to the rule that you can't sunder armor worn. Should a DM nix that idea, that'll free up 3 feats and 2 levels (Exotic Weap Prof, Deadly concussion, Weapon Focus, and 2 levels in EWM)
The builds are intended to be usable from level 7 onwards, but could be played from level 1, rather than a build like Jack B Quick which rather sucks until level 7 or 8, and doesn't get good until 12 or later.
************************************************** ******* *************************
Fighter 1, Bard 1, Fighter 2-8, EWM 2, Ranger 1, Horizon 8 I could swap fighter 1 and bard for extra skill points, and bard of course is the dip the DM nixed. So if the bard dip is vetoed too, I rearrange the order of EWP, Weapon Focus, and Deadly Concussion. That bard level becomes a level in ranger, and ideally I take ranger 2 at start, and use a different weapon style from Dragon Magazine. That'll free a few feats.
Ftr2/Brd1/Ftr8/EWM2/Rgr1/HW8
Bab 19 Fort: 17 Ref: 8 Will: 6
Str 17 18 19 20
Dex-12
Con-15 16
Int-14
Wis-11 12
Cha-10
Feats:
1) Power attack
H1)Cleave
F1)Imp Bullrush
F2)Imp Sunder
3) Deadly concussion
F4) EWP: Minotaur Greathammer
6)leap attack
F6)Shocktrooper
F8) Combat brute
9)Weapon focus
EWM Tricks: Exotic sunder, Trip attack
12)Endurance
15)
18)
Horizon walker terrain: Underground, Desert, Plains, Mountain, Aquatic,
Planar terrain: Shifting, Aligned (Evil), Cavernous
items: (partial wishlist for later levels)
+X Valorous Smoking Minotaur greathammer (+2 cost) +3k for adamantine, +5k for starmetal, +9K for gold/platinum (which will require another +1 of magic enhancements, or a feat), everbright
Belt of giant strength and belt of battle
Strongarm bracers
+X Armor (probably breastplate) mithril is +4k, Blueshine/durable, soulfire, retaliation, healing,
Custom boots of haste. As the spell, 5 rounds per use, infinite use. Approx 27k
Hewards haversack
Cloak of resistance
Fighter 1 (armored mage ACF), Abjurer 1 (immediate magic ACF), Fighter 2-6, Abjurant champ 5, and Eldritch knight 8?
Ftr6/Wiz1/AbjChamp/5/EK8
Bab 19, CL 19 (21 for abjuration), Fort: 12 Ref: 5 Will: 10 and spells per day as a 13th level abjurer
-There's probably other, easy entry Gish PrC's for me, but I can't think of any.
-Losing my familiar via immediate magic might suck, but weakening the spells coming at me should help make up for the sucky reflex save I'll have.
-Keeping the smoking weapon for miss chances, even with the high AC I'll get from Luminous armor + shield, I'm still going to get hit a lot due to shocktrooper.
Str 1718
Dex-12
Con-15
Int-14 15 16 17 18
Wis-11
Cha-10
Feats:
1) Power attack
H1)Cleave
F1)Imp Bullrush
F2)Imp Sunder
3) Collegiate wizard (learns 4 spells per level, rather than 2, right?)
F4) Leap attack
6) Combat casting
F6)Shocktrooper
9)Combat Brute
12)Magic disruption (CM)
EK1)
15)
18) Mystic backlash (CM)
-It would be nice if Abj Champ's extended and swift abjuration class abilities let me qualify for feats as if I had the extend or quicken metamagic feats. Even if I could only use those other metamagics on my abjuration spells.
Spells:
All 0th,
9 1st: Shield, Detect Magic, Read magic, Nerveskitter, fist of stone
8 2nd: Wraithstrike, rope trick, silver dragonmail (CoV)
8 3rd: Dispel magic, Suggestion, Haste, Invisibility, Fly, Greater mighty wallop (ROD, if I use a bludgeoning weap), Golden dragonmail (CoV)
8 4th: Luminous armor, Dimension Door, Polymorph, Firestride Exhalation (DM),
8 5th: Acid Sheath, baleful polymorph, teleport
8 6th: Contingency, Greater Dispel, Disintegrate
8 7th:Energy Absorption, Force Cage, Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray, Reverse Gravity
items:
+X Valorous Smoking Greatsword (+2 cost) +3k for adamantine, +5k for starmetal, +9K for gold/platinum (which will require another +1 of magic enhancements, or a feat)
Belt of giant strength, combined with belt of battle
Backup slashing weapon
Backup ranged weapon
+1 Light Armor (not for the AC, but as something to hold extra enchantments). Soulfire, Agility, durable, retaliation, healing (greater)
Headband of intellect
Tunic of steady spellcasting
Custom boots of haste. As the spell, 5 rounds per use, infinite use. Approx 27k
Amulet of natural armor +1
Hewards haversack
Cloak of resistance
Questions:
1:Scintillating scales is an abjuration spell that turns my natural armor bonus into a deflection bonus. So even if my natural armor bonus is from an item, I should still get the +5 from abjurant champion right?
2:-Is there a way for a wizard to learn a normally divine spell? I was flipping through some Faerun books last night, and found a few divine abjurations that work almost as well as Luminous armor, but without the ability damage. I'd swear I also saw an arcane spell in one of them that would do the job too, but can't remember which book I saw it in. Currently I'm afraid that I might've forgotten to check for spells that actually gave a Armor or Shield bonus, rather than insight, luck, deflection etc.
3:The few casters I've played were very straightforward, so not sure if I'm interpreting something correctly. For any variable CL based effects at level 20, I cast as if I were a 19 level wizard, but I'm still restricted to my 7th level spells and below, right?
4:I've got a lot of spells known to fill out here as well. I'll look for the Swiftblade and Abj Champ handbooks later, that should be enough to fill me up.