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Jergmo
2010-09-20, 12:52 AM
So, in my campaign, I have paladins of every gosh-darn alignment there is. The problem has been in figuring out what to call them all! Below is a list of titles I've come up with already, though a couple of alignments are lacking. Any ideas, fine folk of the playground?

Paladin Titles by Alignment
LG: Crusader, Justiciar
NG: Exemplar, Paragon, Saint
CG: Liberator
LN: Guardian, Templar
TN: Arbitrator, Equalizer, Mediator
CN: Freeman, Renegade
LE: Tyrant
NE: Corruptor, Malefactor
CE: Destroyer, Sadist

Jack Zander
2010-09-20, 01:09 AM
LG: I'd call this a paladin and call the overall class "knight"
NG: I like Exemplar
CG: Liberator is perfect
LN: I'm not sure I like either of those. Maybe something to do with retribution. How about Avenger?
TN: Equalizer sounds like funny. I'd personally say TN is the one alignment paladins cannot be. If you really want to have TN knights they wouldn't be much more than mercenaries, so maybe just go with that.
CN: Renegade is nice. Could probably be better though. A Chaotic paladin would seek to create chaos in all things, and look to give governments less power. What's a holy word for a rebel? Insurgent is the best I have here.
LE: Tyrant doesn't match what a knight is at all. I'd actually call this one a Crusader, since they zealously fight for their ideals.
NE: I like Malefactor here, since it's the opposite of Benefactor and the description the PHB gives the NE alignment.
CE: Destroyer fits nicely.

Jergmo
2010-09-20, 01:17 AM
Well, the Knights Templar do strike me as being Lawful Neutral. I also had Guardian on there as the related deity is Lawful Neutral. Avenger might also work, though. My rationalization of the TN paladin is in striving for a balance between the system and the individual, working as a...what's it called...the person who listens to both sides of an argument to provide a voice of reason. Hence the Equalizer title. While True Neutral doesn't necessarily mean Balance-crazy like it did in 2e, it seems fitting for a paladin. Malefactor may as well go on to NE, then, as well. The Lawful Evil paladin in the Unearthed Arcana variant is called the Paladin of Tyranny...

Also, Chaotic Evil strikes me as having more to it than wanting to destroy things, you know?

Let's see...oh. I was thinking something like Insurgent could work for CN, though the issue I see is that it's more fitting of a stealthy character.

Edit: The Mediator! That's it!

Jack Zander
2010-09-20, 01:32 AM
My rationalization of the TN paladin is in striving for a balance between the system and the individual, working as a...what's it called...the person who listens to both sides of an argument to provide a voice of reason.

If that's the kind of knight you want maybe you should call them an Arbitrator.


The Lawful Evil paladin in the Unearthed Arcana variant is called the Paladin of Tyranny...

I understand why you went with that, but it doesn't mean they had a good name for it to begin with. Being a tyrant means you control a group of people with an iron fist, not go on adventures with a horse.


Also, Chaotic Evil strikes me as having more to it than wanting to destroy things, you know?

For sure but there isn't much else to describe Chaotic Stupid as.


Let's see...oh. I was thinking something like Insurgent could work for CN, though the issue I see is that it's more fitting of a stealthy character.

Yeah, nothing fits too well in there. Although you could change the skill list and abilities to match that of a stealthy knight.

Jergmo
2010-09-20, 01:46 AM
I personally believe that's a more narrow-minded way of looking at Chaotic Evil. One of my players is playing a Tiefling, and their father is a crime lord that has his den in the slums of the nation's capital. He isn't a psychotic mass-murderer - he's a downright wicked, mean drunk. His personal philosophy is that we're all Roadless, and nothing we do matters. Is he a murderer? Yes. He's killed quite a few people. But what makes him him isn't his tendency to kill people. It's his Me vs. The Universe philosophy. Sure, it's something that can be attributed to Chaotic Neutral, but it works very well with Chaotic Evil as well. The only difference is, the Chaotic Evil character actively does evil to other people to get his way. Here's where the Sadist title comes in.

This is how I see the alignments, for the most part.
LG: What can I do to improve the system for others?
NG: What can I do to improve society as a whole?
CG: What can I do to improve life for the individual?
LN: What can the system do for my family/friends and I? (Or what can I do for the system so that it may improve life for my family/friends and I?)
TN: What can society and I do for my family/friends and I?
CN: What can I do for my family/friends and I?
LE: What can the system do for me? (Or what can I take, for Evil)
NE: What can society as a whole do for me?
CE: What can the individual do for me?

Also, this is the definition I was looking at for "Tyrant" that made me think it was good: a tyrannical or compulsory influence.

Tyrannical: unjustly cruel, harsh, or severe; arbitrary or oppressive; despotic: a tyrannical ruler.

hamishspence
2010-09-20, 02:45 AM
So, in my campaign, I have paladins of every gosh-darn alignment there is. The problem has been in figuring out what to call them all! Below is a list of titles I've come up with already, though a couple of alignments are lacking. Any ideas, fine folk of the playground?

Dragon 310 and 312 had names- not sure if I can remember them all offhand.

CE: anti-paladin
NE: corruptor
LE: despot
CG: avenger
NG: ?
LN: ?
N: incarnate
CN: anarch

Amphetryon
2010-09-20, 05:51 AM
NG = Sentinel
LN = Enforcer

I have my #310 in hand. :smallsmile:

Jergmo
2010-09-20, 08:13 AM
Thanks, all three of you. I'll be checking back in tomorrow, but for now, I've got a party to go run!

Mando Knight
2010-09-20, 08:40 AM
I personally believe that's a more narrow-minded way of looking at Chaotic Evil.
Yes, but the base CE "Paladin" is required to follow that path if he's using the code of conduct from the Unearthed Arcana version:

A paladin of slaughter must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits a good act. Additionally, a paladin of slaughter's code requires that she disrespect all authority figures who have not proven their physical superiority to her, refuse help to those in need, and sow destruction and death at all opportunities.

hamishspence
2010-09-20, 08:45 AM
The Dragon 312 CE Anti-paladin isn't much better- something along the lines of:

"he may choose to ally with good people- but he must betray them within the hour"

Renegade Paladin
2010-09-20, 08:45 AM
So, in my campaign, I have paladins of every gosh-darn alignment there is.
No you don't. You have paladins of one alignment and a bunch of dudes pretending to be paladins who aren't of the other eight. :smalltongue:

Zaydos
2010-09-20, 08:55 AM
I'd go with:
Paladin Titles by Alignment
LG: Paladin
NG: Exemplar
CG: Liberator
LN: Templar
TN: Arbitrator
CN: Anarch
LE: Despot
NE: Malefactor
CE: Destroyer others option would be Ravager or Slayer.

A CE paladin is not just selfish, he is very actively chaotic evil and he knows it.

Jack Zander
2010-09-20, 08:58 AM
I'd go with:
Paladin Titles by Alignment
LG: Paladin
NG: Exemplar
CG: Liberator
LN: Templar
TN: Arbitrator
CN: Anarch
LE: Despot
NE: Malefactor
CE: Destroyer others option would be Ravager or Slayer.

A CE paladin is not just selfish, he is very actively chaotic evil and he knows it.

The only one I'd personally disagree with here would be LE, as a despot is a ruler and nothing to do with being an adventurer.

Zaydos
2010-09-20, 09:02 AM
The only one I'd personally disagree with here would be LE, as a despot is a ruler and nothing to do with being an adventurer.

Yeah, but the only other things I can think of are Tyrant, Conqueror, and Slaver. LE is hard to give good names for.

Telonius
2010-09-20, 09:07 AM
I generally houserule Paladins as losing the code altogether, requiring that they take the alignment of their deity or philosophy, and acting as a shining example of that Deity's teachings, goals, and outlook. (It's never made sense to me why Olidammara, for example, would ever require anything to be lawful; or conversely, why he wouldn't be able to grant his followers powers similar to what Hieroneus or Pelor would).

True Neutral Paladins would be perfectly fine - they'd belong to Obad-Hai and similar deities.

I like Zaydos's name list, with a couple of alternate suggestions:

LN: Judge, Warden
CN: Iconoclast

Snake-Aes
2010-09-20, 09:07 AM
Yeah, but the only other things I can think of are Tyrant, Conqueror, and Slaver. LE is hard to give good names for.

Corrupter.

hamishspence
2010-09-20, 09:09 AM
Several of the Dragon magazine variants have a different "emphasis" on the alignment axes, than the standard Unearthed Arcana paladins.

A Despot, for example, while LE, gets Smite Chaos, an Aura of Law, and falls for committing Chaotic acts. A bit different from a Paladin of Tyranny.

They also get Leadership earlier than it's normally available, as a class feature.

An Avenger, while CG, gets Smite Law and an Aura of Chaos (still falls for Evil acts like a Paladin of Freedom does though).


Corrupter.

Already filled by the NE variant.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-20, 09:10 AM
Already filled by the NE variant.

Tidy Corrupter.

Zaydos
2010-09-20, 09:16 AM
Corrupter.



Already filled by the NE variant.

I'd actually say Corrupter works very well for LE, and I'd still suggest going with Malefactor for NE which would free up Corrupter for LE.

hamishspence
2010-09-20, 09:19 AM
Main reason it's called that in Dragon 312, is the NE variant specializes in corrupting their enemies- and has no "do not associate with Good" clause the way the Paladin of Tyranny and Paladin of Slaughter do.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-20, 09:29 AM
I find those codes incredibly dumb... but whatever :/ They should act more on the lines ToB crusaders do.

Zaydos
2010-09-20, 09:36 AM
I can understand that Paladins can't associate with evil, but there should be certain exceptions. Attempts at redemption, enemy mine situations when there's 10 minutes till the end of the world, etc. But a paladin shouldn't routinely adventure with an evil character, their morals should clash too much. The thing is in AD&D except for the code Paladin was simply a (largely) upgraded fighter, the code brought them back in line with the base class (specifically the tithe and magic item limits). 3.5 they aren't powerful enough to deserve a code from a crunch perspective.

dsmiles
2010-09-20, 09:40 AM
Corrupter.

Maybe Zealot for LE?

Dresil
2010-09-20, 10:22 AM
What would a TN Paladin Smite? Smite opinionated?

Snake-Aes
2010-09-20, 10:36 AM
What would a TN Paladin Smite? Smite opinionated?

Just give everyone "Smite everything", or restrict all paladins to follow a specific philosophy or god and have "Smite enemy of faith". In the setting I currently play paladins are devoted to gods, bringing the latter. Our paladin of War gets to smite pacifists and sworn enemies, which must be a single faction of up to 100 people or half that many specific people, who all were warned a week earlier they will be attacked by him in open conflict.

Telonius
2010-09-20, 10:45 AM
"Smite Extremist." Functions fully on extreme alignments (LG, CG, LE, CE), half damage on things with one Neutral (NG, NE, CN, LN).

hamishspence
2010-09-20, 10:49 AM
If you look at it from a Great Wheel perspective- what's so extreme about those four?

If LG and LE are slightly less Lawful than LN, LG and CG slightly less Good than NG, and so on-

aren't the other four (NE, NG, LN, CN) "more extreme" in that respect?

Snake-Aes
2010-09-20, 11:38 AM
If you look at it from a Great Wheel perspective- what's so extreme about those four?

If LG and LE are slightly less Lawful than LN, LG and CG slightly less Good than NG, and so on-

aren't the other four (NE, NG, LN, CN) "more extreme" in that respect?

Incarnates and Soulborns pull that Shtick. It doesn't really mean anything in the end.

Marshall
2010-09-20, 01:07 PM
Dragon #106, 1st edition had an article called 'A Plethora of Paladins' that used the following names:

LG: Paladin
NG: Myrikhan
CG: Garath

LN: Lyan
N: Paramander
CN: Fantra

LE: Illrigger
NE: Arrikhan
CE: Anti-Paladin

Caliphbubba
2010-09-20, 01:16 PM
Dragon #106, 1st edition had an article called 'A Plethora of Paladins' that used the following names:

LG: Paladin
NG: Myrikhan
CG: Garath

LN: Lyan
N: Paramander
CN: Fantra

LE: Illrigger
NE: Arrikhan
CE: Anti-Paladin

haha I remember this! I could only remember the Myrikhan tho, we had one in a party way back in the day.

to my mind Illrigger sounds awesome.

Talon Sky
2010-09-20, 02:28 PM
I usually call any Good Paladin a Paladin and any Evil Paladin a Blackguard (even without the prestige class). As for Neutrality, I rule it like a cleric: they have to choose smite good/evil, and stick with it. BUT, they have to stay their deity's alignment....no one step stuff.

Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic are personal/religious choices. Lawful Gods would have churches and orders, where Chaotic ones might not so much. So the Paladin of a Chaotic God really wouldn't be part of a Paladin order.

Jergmo
2010-09-20, 05:32 PM
I give a TN paladin the choice of smiting Law or Chaos at the beginning of each day.

Mando Knight
2010-09-20, 05:49 PM
Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic are personal/religious choices. Lawful Gods would have churches and orders, where Chaotic ones might not so much. So the Paladin of a Chaotic God really wouldn't be part of a Paladin order.

They might not be a Paladin order, but they might be a Paladin Band of Brothers, especially the CG ones. After all, even chaotic characters can have a strong sense of "Hey, that's my buddy, my brother-in-arms."