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MurdoPilnotton
2010-09-20, 03:22 AM
I'm running a 3.5 campaign that's almost 11 (500 exp short, doh!) whose cleric just died and who's druid is probably leaving, and the replacements (if the PC's got to pick) would not be healers.

So I need an NPC that makes a relatively good support for a party, that come level ~15 I could probably play to wrap up the campaign (we've been rotating who DMs, I get 10-15).

I'd like something that's relatively interesting. Our cleric lost interest (before he died) because MAD meant he couldn't melee terribly well, and things either a) Died too fast for him to contribute (though increasing CR is fixing this) or b) all he did was cast cure X). My first inclination was something mix and match support like Mystic theurge (because building a support wizard has been on my mind), but I can't seem to get into MT w/o losing at least a spell level and a half.

Any other suggestions? Powergaming is fine, but nobody has more than to classes (PrC or otherwise) at this point in the campaign. The most gamed characters are a Wilder and a Sorcerer/Incantrix (my character who just left) and the straight summoner druid (who's leaving because he takes 5 minutes a round and kills everything).

MurdoPilnotton
2010-09-20, 04:19 AM
Ok, on further thinking, what about something like this:

A wizard with Arcane Disciple (Heal), possibly Spontaneous Healer, and then select feats from there ongoing as the character developed. I know that I just spent 2 feats to basically turn a wizard into a cleric (without the better HD or saves), but I get arcane spellcasting (which, to this point, I've found to have more interesting/powerful spells), and I don't need to build a creation wizard (especially since none of the party can Use Magic Device).

Do you "know" all of the spells you gain from Arcane Disciple, or must you learn them?

Malbordeus
2010-09-20, 04:21 AM
archivist or Spirit shaman, or dragon shaman? these are nicely obtuse in how they do things and allow an amount of combat as well as healing.

theres also a reserve feat that is basicly infinite hp healing up to half health...

edit: Archivist/Wizard/Mystic theurge

742
2010-09-20, 04:28 AM
healing is inherently reactive and single effect; best to just avoid getting hit in the first place. celerity+benign transposition, malign transposition, regroup, teleport, stun ray ect. or make healing a secondary ability somehow.

MurdoPilnotton
2010-09-20, 05:05 AM
healing is inherently reactive and single effect; best to just avoid getting hit in the first place. celerity+benign transposition, malign transposition, regroup, teleport, stun ray ect. or make healing a secondary ability somehow.

The problem wasn't that healing itself (ok, it was to the guy who got stuck with the job), but that he didn't really do a whole lot else. Part of it was his build and lack of familiarity with the cleric spell list (which, by all means, if you know a cool set of Cleric spells and the feat progression to make a focused cleric both powerful and interesting suggest it!), but part of it was that his spells didn't do a whole lot. He could Righteous Might, but he was still leagues behind the Fighter (not to mention the Dinonicous and Psionic Weapon Wilder), and it's not like he could CC or Cast with a wizard or Driud with the spare slots.

That's why I've been looking at converting a wizard (who's huge support ability lies untapped in my game) into a background healer. Maybe a Lesser Tiefling (or human for the feat).

Fouredged Sword
2010-09-20, 05:25 AM
Bard with hymn of healing and war weaver.

You have an arcane healer who uses level one cure spells to heal every member of the party 1d8+20something points of health. Step out of bard as soon as you wish into that PrC that turns you into a sorrcerer for 4-9th spells.

....

Profit?

FelixG
2010-09-20, 05:27 AM
If i am recalling correctly isn't there a warlock PrC that can heal with his blasts?

Might make for a fun healer!

Furthermore is there a energy substitution for spell like abilities?

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-20, 05:31 AM
Dragon Shaman has an Aura that will heal everyone in 30ft up to 50%, which can be gained with a single Feat.

Stick that Feat onto any character and the rest is just topping up before a big battle, which a Factotum can do quite nicely via it's healing ability and some wands of Lesser Vigour. Plus it's a factotum, so it automatically kicks ass.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-20, 05:33 AM
If i am recalling correctly isn't there a warlock PrC that can heal with his blasts?

Might make for a fun healer!

Furthermore is there a energy substitution for spell like abilities?

Eldritch Disciple. Combine with Hellfire Warlock for super healing from hell! :smallbiggrin:

gorfnab
2010-09-20, 05:35 AM
Wizard 2/ Human Paragon 3/ Combat Medic 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ x 5 (War Weaver, Paragnostic Apostle, Sacred Exorcist, or something full caster)

Combat Medic is in Heroes of Battle. You can enter it with wizard with the Arcane Disciple feat.

MurdoPilnotton
2010-09-20, 06:40 AM
I looked back at my ideas of giving an arcane spellcaster heal spells and calling it a day, but no matter what a party support is going to need other basic divine spells, like resurrection or restoration on his spell list.

742
2010-09-20, 06:58 AM
isnt there a class in one of the completes, rainbow somethingorother that can get you access to that?

and why the hell do these people need restorations? im getting the sense that theres kind of a mechanical focus in your game, dont they know to not get hit? i mean rule number 1 of adventuring: dont die!

Person_Man
2010-09-20, 10:40 AM
There is no such thing as a "critical" role that must be filled by an NPC if the PCs choose not to fill it. There are a huge array of healing magic items out there, and other back door methods of healing. If there are no Clerics or Druids in the party, just let them buy healing belts (Magic Item Compendium) or wands or potions. It keeps the players in the drivers seat, and makes their survival dependent on their actions, and not your actions as DM/NPC.

If you absolutely feel compelled to put an NPC in the party, there is a base class in the Miniatures Handbook called the Healer. Unless supremely optimized it's useless for anything but healing and removing harmful conditions (and even then it's pretty meh). But again, my advice is to always keep the spotlight on the players and their actions, and not detract from them by adding NPCs to the party.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-20, 10:45 AM
Person Man beat me to my usual post on this subject. He is, of course, completely correct.

I suggest that if you're fond of the NPC solution, present it to the PCs as a choice. After all, they know they need healing. They can hire an NPC(either for a set rate, or for a share of loot), or they can instead invest money into healing items. Either way, it makes a reasonable in character decision.

Iferus
2010-09-20, 10:49 AM
There is no such thing as a "critical" role that must be filled by an NPC if the PCs choose not to fill it. There are a huge array of healing magic items out there, and other back door methods of healing. If there are no Clerics or Druids in the party, just let them buy healing belts (Magic Item Compendium) or wands or potions. It keeps the players in the drivers seat, and makes their survival dependent on their actions, and not your actions as DM/NPC.

If you absolutely feel compelled to put an NPC in the party, there is a base class in the Miniatures Handbook called the Healer. Unless supremely optimized it's useless for anything but healing and removing harmful conditions (and even then it's pretty meh). But again, my advice is to always keep the spotlight on the players and their actions, and not detract from them by adding NPCs to the party.


I agree with this. No need for fancy classes and PC-worthy characters. Just let them figure out a way amongst themselves how to get some healing. If you really feel you need to add a NPC, let it be a healer.


On a side note, how about showing that cleric player around on the internet so he can learn how to play a cleric? You know, without using cure spells in battle. It might convince him to stay.

Ruinix
2010-09-20, 11:33 AM
allow the CHA PCs of ur group take leadership and give him a full cleric or healer or spirit shaman or druid.

make a super healbot build wich isnt to good in combat and problem resolved :D

iElf
2010-09-20, 04:52 PM
Bard with hymn of healing and war weaver.

You have an arcane healer who uses level one cure spells to heal every member of the party 1d8+20something points of health. Step out of bard as soon as you wish into that PrC that turns you into a sorrcerer for 4-9th spells.

....

Profit?

I support this. i played a ranged support heal/buff bard for a while, and hymn of healing is just awesome

gorfnab
2010-09-20, 04:54 PM
isnt there a class in one of the completes, rainbow somethingorother that can get you access to that?


Rainbow Servant - Complete Divine

The trick is to get into it using early entry cheese and a spontaneous caster with a list of spells known (Warmage, Beguiler, or Dread Necromancer) so that you can spontaneous cast the entire Cleric spells list at level 11. Here is a handbook that will tell you how to do just that. A Rainbow Servant's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5213.0)

Dr.Epic
2010-09-20, 04:56 PM
I'd like something that's relatively interesting. Our cleric lost interest (before he died) because MAD meant he couldn't melee terribly well, and things either a) Died too fast for him to contribute (though increasing CR is fixing this) or b) all he did was cast cure X). My first inclination was something mix and match support like Mystic theurge (because building a support wizard has been on my mind), but I can't seem to get into MT w/o losing at least a spell level and a half.

How bad was his melee? Clerics can easily be built to be fighters. As for interesting healers, well, a cleric of a certain deity might be fun to roleplay. Druids don't really suck at anything if your interested in something easy. Bard and paladins, while they are fun to play in roleplaying terms and can heal, I'm not sure if they could be enough of a healer for an entire party.

Urpriest
2010-09-20, 05:45 PM
I'll second the suggestion of a Warlock with Eldritch Disciple. Mix it into the classic Hellfire Ur-Lock build (Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 2/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple +8) and you're off to the races. Pair it with the Eldritch Glaive invocation and have a healer who stabs his allies with a polearm made of hellfire.

Draz74
2010-09-20, 07:39 PM
I vote Egoist / Sangehirn. It's awesome, except for the part where it doesn't really become a great healer until ECL 9 ... but hey, your party is ECL 10. Problem solved.

Lans
2010-09-21, 01:43 AM
A Healer that uses Exalted spells. Healing will be fine, but when he fights it weighs heavily on him. Or it could be the strength drain.