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Nick_mi
2010-09-20, 12:41 PM
I am in need help of two things. I'm currently DMing a game. I am the most knowledgable, and I just started this summer =/

I read the DM's guide part on traps but it was very vague. So what I'm looking for is

when I set a trap, do I have to try and describe it or make it obvious so that they initiate the search?(they have a rogue and barb in the party). Or do I just ask for a search check roll when they come up to it to see if they find it?

Also, what are some "bread and butter" traps for CR levels 3-8. Only relative thing of note is that 3 out of the 4 people have a +10 to jump on top of thier str and/or any ranks put in.

Project_Mayhem
2010-09-20, 12:45 PM
I think conventionally they are supposed to declare that they are searching for traps. Some DMs allow a passive search, like constantly taking 10 or something.

Really though, traps suck as written. They're boring. Either they're set off, in which case its a hp tax, or its just *roll, sorted*

Do something interesting with them. Incorporate them into combat encounters - fight the orcs without shocking your self on the floor panels. Kill the skeletons while the air is sucked out of the room. Stuff like that.

jiriku
2010-09-20, 12:55 PM
Generally, you're not going to describe a trap at all until the players trigger it or locate it through searching. You definitely do NOT want to presence of the trap to be obvious -- a trap that anyone can see is not a trap at all -- it's an obstacle.

Players are entitled to a Search check to detect a trap only if they specifically state that they are searching. The player nominates a 5' square that he wishes to Search, makes his check, and if he makes the trap's Search DC, he discovers the trap is there. You may wish to make the roll for him so that if no trap is found, the player doesn't know whether the area is safe or whether he simply searched poorly.

It's common for players to Take 10 and Take 20 when Searching, as it saves a lot of rolling. Some DMs dislike this because it removes the element of chance -- if you're one of those DMs, it's best to place traps in places where the players will always be in a hurry or under attack, so that they're not in a position to Take 10 or Take 20.

To save time, the players might just say "we search everywhere while we're in this dungeon". The best way to resolve that is to assume that the player with the best Search check is Taking 10 throughout the dungeon. Bear in mind that this requires said character to be at the head of the group, and will cut the party's speed to half.



As far as bread-and-butter traps, pit traps are the classic, especially with some kind of hazard at the bottom of the pit, like spikes, a pool of acid, or a monster. You should definitely include some pit traps, if for no other reason than to let your players have a good time jumping over them with their massive Jump skills. Don't forget that Jump DCs are doubled if you can't get a 20' running start. :smallamused:

Other classic traps include:

a tripwire that sounds an alarm to warn nearby denizens of the intruder's presence
poisoned needle on the opening mechanism of a door or chest
poisoned darts, arrows or spears that fire when someone opens a door or puts weight on a balance plate
crushing blocks that drop from the ceiling when someone steps on a rocker panel
a portcullis that drops when someone steps on a rocker panel, potentially separating the party or hindering retreat from a dangerous monster


Normally when people ask for trap advice, I offer some of the twisted, cruel, and vindictive products of my own trap-making, but I get the impression you're not ready to hit the players where it hurts just yet. Let me know if you do want the really nasty stuff. :smallcool:

Chipp Zanuff
2010-09-20, 01:37 PM
Pro Tip: Design a trap with an automatic reset of 1 round and a trigger of "Whenever someone searches for traps within a certain radius of this trap". And have one of it's effects teleport the trap itself into a random tile within the room.


Do this only to annoy people. At most, have the trap give a cumulative -1 to something painful yet negotiable in combat. Like a -1 to SR if the players have it. Or a "Spells targeting this character have their caster levels increased by 1 if the caster is hostile to the character" type effect.

Skorj
2010-09-20, 03:03 PM
As a DM, I've always given spot checks (rolled by me) to "notice something fishy", needing a search check only to find the specific trap mechanism (and have a chance to disarm it). The situational mod on the spot check would reflect how cautious the party was being. Think of a simple tripwire: very hard to see in dim lighting, especially if you're running away from some threat at the time (but PCs are super-human, so it's just a high DC), not so hard to see if advancing cautiously with good lighting. Making the players say "and we're searching for traps as we go" when ever they walk down a hall doesn't help any.

When placing traps, I always try to be realistic about their purpose - if the trap builder has to live with a trap, he'll make it safe for himself (or be reckless by species or disposition) in some fashion - a concealed off switch, "walk on the red tiles", whatever. If the traps protect a treasure room or panic room, then once activated there may be no safe way past without painstakingly disarming each trap. I've always felt that if there were a spike pit trap in a dungeon, there should be some reason it's not already full of the stupider creatures who occupy that dungeon (or maybe that's a design feature itself).

BRC
2010-09-20, 03:19 PM
I tend to allow automatic Spot/Listen checks, or sometimes just a raw Wisdom check, to determine that "Something is off". If they do well, I might mention that "Something is off about one of the tiles" or "That third statue looks different from the others".

Really, it depends on your style. A properly paranoid group will be checking for traps every ten feet of hallway, which can get annoying and slow up gameplay, however if you almost never use traps, then spring one on the PC's then shrug and say "Well, you SHOULD HAVE CHECKED FOR THEM!".

Some general trap advice: The WORST way to use a trap is the Hallway with a single attack trap. If the PC's find it and disable it, it's boring. If they don't find it, trigger it, and get hit, it's annoying.
The good way to use traps, is to provide secondary effects. Like, for example, an alarm that summons guards. The best way to use Direct damage traps is alongside monsters. A Hallway of swinging axes is a disable device check, or maybe some reflex saves. A Hallway of swinging axes in which you go toe-to-hoof with a minotaur can be exciting and fascinating.

jiriku
2010-09-20, 03:51 PM
Encounter traps a pretty darn fun too. For example, suppose triggering a trap slams down a portcullis over every exit from a room, trapping PCs inside, while secondary traps cast spells, swing slashing blades and fire arrows every round (each trap within the room would roll initiative and act on its initiative count). The traps in the room function like monsters, attacking predefined areas when their turn comes, while the PCs "fight" the trap by attacking and breaking its pieces, disabling components one at a time with Disable Device checks, or dispelling magic traps with dispel magic. Monsters that know the pattern to the traps or are immune to its attacks (for example, a fire elemental in a trap room involving jets of flame, or swarms of diminutive creatures in a trap room with arrows and blades) can participate in these kinds of encounters as well.

If you can get ahold of it, the Dungeonscape sourcebook has tons of good advice on trapbuilding.

Project_Mayhem
2010-09-20, 03:57 PM
There should be some good ideas for this sort of thing here (http://www.ackbar.org/images/ackbar.jpg), on reflection

jiriku
2010-09-20, 04:20 PM
Did you just rickroll the thread with Admiral Ackbar? I'm pretty sure that you did. :smalltongue:

Project_Mayhem
2010-09-20, 04:37 PM
I don't know what you mean.
*Nose grows 2 feet*

Chipp Zanuff
2010-09-20, 04:39 PM
I don't know what you mean.
*Nose grows 2 feet*

Project_Mayhem sappen mah job!

Raum
2010-09-20, 05:14 PM
...when I set a trap, do I have to try and describe it or make it obvious so that they initiate the search?(they have a rogue and barb in the party). Or do I just ask for a search check roll when they come up to it to see if they find it?I'm going to buck the trend here...while much of the advice is mechanically correct, it also describes a type of trap I find boring - tax traps.

There are two types of traps - traps the PCs interact with and health taxes. To interact with a trap, they have to be aware of it. So when creating your traps, you need to decide whether you're just wanting to reduce hit points / health (a tax trap) or whether you want an interesting encounter where they players have to make choices (an interactive trap). It's probably obvious which I prefer. :)

Seriously though, trying to figure out a way over or around a simple but obvious pit trap filled with water (with something swimming in it) is more fun than simply rolling a die and taking your lumps when you fail and fall.

Interestingly this is a counter-intuitive issue GMs always need to work through. Secrets, whether traps, hidden agendas, or conspiracies are part of what make for good plots. But, the players have to learn about them to one degree or another in order to interact with them. Secrets, and traps, are often best when only partially hidden. :smallwink:

Project_Mayhem
2010-09-20, 05:22 PM
I'm going to buck the trend here...while much of the advice is mechanically correct, it also describes a type of trap I find boring - tax traps.


Really though, traps suck as written. They're boring. Either they're set off, in which case its a hp tax, or its just *roll, sorted*

Second quote man :smalltongue:

Agreed though

Darrin
2010-09-20, 06:43 PM
There are two types of traps - traps the PCs interact with and health taxes. To interact with a trap, they have to be aware of it.


I'd like to second this. Actually, this echoes something I found awhile ago... kind of higher-level theory, but I really like the idea of making traps obvious. The tricky part should be disabling/circumventing, not finding them. Two articles I found amazingly inciteful about trap design:

Bad Trap Syndrome (http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/90/bad-trap-syndrome/)
Bad Trap Syndrome (Part 2) (http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/91/bad-trap-syndrome-curing-the-bad-trap-blues/)