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View Full Version : 4e Avenger MC Swordmage into Wandering Swordmage?



Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-20, 06:27 PM
A side idea that came to me while trying to make a decent Bladelock (Warlock|Swordmage), I was reading a Swordmage guide (to see which powers where worthwhile) and I came to the paragon path stuff, it recomended the Wandering Swordmage which is awesome except it needs wisdom.

I then started wondering about Wis based classes, and I cam to realization that an avenger MC swordmage might be a good idea, Wis is the primary stat for avengers which synergizes nice with the paragon path, also int is a tertiary stat for avengers which means you won't be dumping that much.

The only problem I see is that wandering swordmage has a pair of features that directly affect the Aegis but they are not that interestintg.

BTW is there a way to get the Aegis by pure multiclassing?? the feat I was thinking of taking was Hear of the blade which gives you swordbond feature (meh) and either endurance or athletics trained.

What does the playground thinks about this?

Kurald Galain
2010-09-20, 06:35 PM
A side idea that came to me while trying to make a decent Bladelock (Warlock|Swordmage)
What is it with everybody wanting to make a hybrid swordmage these days? :smallbiggrin:


int is a tertiary stat for avengers which means you won't be dumping that much.
Given that one of the most common stat arrays is 18/14/11/10/10/8, I wouldn't be so sure about that.



BTW is there a way to get the Aegis by pure multiclassing??
Only by paragon multiclassing (which costs four feats and your paragon path).

You could simply play an avenger, put 13 points in int for the multiclass feat, and grab the paragon path. Power swap feats aren't that good an investment most of the time.

Mando Knight
2010-09-20, 06:41 PM
Given that one of the most common stat arrays is 18/14/11/10/10/8, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

...I usually use 16/14/14/whatever or 16/16/whatever. I like to have a few points to spread around the board, rather than lumping it all into having just +1 above the rest in attack, damage, and a single defense.

Zaydos
2010-09-20, 06:43 PM
If you don't have some decent Int then you'll probably miss with Wandering Swordmage's encounter power (it's an Int based attack). Without a mark one of its features and its utility is useless.

So the question becomes is it worth a feat to take a paragon path that only grants a bonus to hit and damage against enemies that just crit you, teleportation when you spend an action point, and a nice daily stance?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-20, 06:56 PM
What is it with everybody wanting to make a hybrid swordmage these days? :smallbiggrin:

No Idea

Given that one of the most common stat arrays is 18/14/11/10/10/8, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I usually go with 16/14/14/X/X/X

Only by paragon multiclassing (which costs four feats and your paragon path).

:smallannoyed: damn, I was hopping I could do it without sacrificing the path

You could simply play an avenger, put 13 points in int for the multiclass feat, and grab the paragon path. Power swap feats aren't that good an investment most of the time.
That was the original idea




If you don't have some decent Int then you'll probably miss with Wandering Swordmage's encounter power (it's an Int based attack). Without a mark one of its features and its utility is useless.

So the question becomes is it worth a feat to take a paragon path that only grants a bonus to hit and damage against enemies that just crit you, teleportation when you spend an action point, and a nice daily stance?

In my mind yes, and I think a reasonable DM would let you count your Oath of Enmity as the mark (I am aware it is a houserule, but one I consider reasonable)

Kurald Galain
2010-09-20, 07:13 PM
...I usually use 16/14/14/whatever or 16/16/whatever. I like to have a few points to spread around the board, rather than lumping it all into having just +1 above the rest in attack, damage, and a single defense.

Oh, I didn't mean it was the best or the only stat array. But it's surprisingly common (and so is 16/16/13/11/10/8). After all, it doesn't matter much if you have +2 to will and +0 to fort, or +1 to each.

Urpriest
2010-09-20, 07:20 PM
Avenger|Swordmage can be fun. Remember, Int is a Secondary stat for Retribution Avengers, not a Tertiary stat. There are tricks by which an Avenger|Swordmage can get obscenely high AC by stacking certain Swordbond/Armor of Faith feats.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-20, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't considered it, but really I think I will give hybrids a rest at least for now.

Doews anyone have suggestion on which is a better MC feat?? Blade Initiate gives Warding and Arcana, while Heart of the Blade gives Athletics or endurance and swordbond.

Personally I am siding with Heart of the blade cause the party is arcanist heavy and some of the characters has some ridiculous arcana, but I want to hear what you guys think.

Mando Knight
2010-09-20, 08:19 PM
Swordbond is actually pretty weak unless you like chucking swords or need to sneak a sword into a no-weapon area, the latter being an option mostly if you've got Distant Swordbond. That's why you get the full-version feature rather than a half-done MC version.

Warding is better, though the MC version only works once per day... Still useful if you're needing to suddenly wall an enemy for an encounter, especially if you're a silly enough Avenger to use a one handed weapon. :smalltongue: (Though using a Versatile weapon is acceptable...)

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-20, 08:40 PM
Swordbond is actually pretty weak unless you like chucking swords or need to sneak a sword into a no-weapon area, the latter being an option mostly if you've got Distant Swordbond. That's why you get the full-version feature rather than a half-done MC version.

Warding is better, though the MC version only works once per day... Still useful if you're needing to suddenly wall an enemy for an encounter, especially if you're a silly enough Avenger to use a one handed weapon. :smalltongue: (Though using a Versatile weapon is acceptable...)

Falchion or fullblade for this avenger, there is no sword but a BFS!!!!

Ihouji
2010-09-20, 09:39 PM
Avenger|Swordmage can be fun. Remember, Int is a Secondary stat for Retribution Avengers, not a Tertiary stat. There are tricks by which an Avenger|Swordmage can get obscenely high AC by stacking certain Swordbond/Armor of Faith feats.

I think you mean swordmage warding but yeah I got a chance to play a hybred avenger/swordmage pre armor of faith getting errataed. It was completely obnoxious you could be at 21-26 AC within the first 4-5 levels while naked. Not to mention being able to heal yourself/ grant yourself temporary HP with avenger abilities and still be hitting fairly hard.

DragonBaneDM
2010-09-20, 11:17 PM
What is it with everybody wanting to make a hybrid swordmage these days? :smallbiggrin:



It's a fantastic hybrid for any non-striker with Con, and you can grab a lot of utility powers that don't use Int, or dailies with great effects.

Case and point: I'm DMing a game where one of my players is a warforged hybrid swordmage/warden.

He has 8 Int, but stops 10 damage at level one with the Aegis. Meaning I can't damage anyone else haha.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-21, 02:50 AM
Swordbond is actually pretty weak unless you like chucking swords
Swordchucks yo!

And yeah, I agree that warding is much better than swordbond.

Meta
2010-09-23, 02:30 PM
My soon to be dual-wielding avenger objects vehemently. Plus it's cool.

Hybrid SM is really good, as SM's may lose the least of any class hybridized.

Also, i posted in your other thread, but tiefling warlock|paladin might be something to look at your for your character building needs

Kurald Galain
2010-09-23, 03:36 PM
SM's may lose the least of any class hybridized.
This is definitely true. The vast majority of hybrids I see recommended here or on other forums involve Swordmage as one of the halves.