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View Full Version : [3.5] Quick and dirty fix for versatility?



Flickerdart
2010-09-20, 07:21 PM
Everyone knows that the problem with the awful melee classes stems largely from their lack of versatility. Many alternate class features have been published over the years - stuff that gives options to Barbarians, useful abilities to Paladins and class features to Fighters. However, none of these classes are higher than T4 even with these.

But what if alternate class features...weren't? For classes that need the help, simply give the ACFs to them for free. Obviously, Druid and Co. don't get any of this, but giving the Fighter the option to dungeoncrash, have feats and also get skill points with a better list at the same time (maybe preparing which abilities to use at the start of the day) should be a great boost to his versatility.

SurlySeraph
2010-09-20, 07:34 PM
Well, the first issue is finding all the ACFs out there, reconciling their often wildly different fluff, ironing out any contradictions (like evil-only and good-only variants, religious variants, etc.), defining which "all" you can take (do you get the features of racial substitution classes if you aren't from that race?), and then checking to what degree the meleers are still relatively balanced against each other and other classes.

Plus most of them don't add all that much versatility. Trapfinding Ranger is... a Ranger with trapfinding. Well, he's probably head and shoulders above a Rogue with all the side benefits he's getting (particularly if he gets to be a Mystic Ranger), but discounting Mystic Ranger he's still mostly Kills n' Skills guy. Fighter ACFs tend to be pretty limited - Hit-and-Run Fighter gives you a little Init boost and Dex to damage vs flat-footed opponents, while Dungeoncrasher is another source of damage but not one that meshes too well with Dex-based characters.

Plus the PHB classes would stand high above alternate base classes, since they have a lot more ACFs published for them.

What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be very quick and probably wouldn't make a big difference wouldn't necessarily make a positive difference balance-wise, just increase the level of variation within a tier without giving them any means to compete with casters.

Frosty
2010-09-20, 09:50 PM
For quick and dirty versatility, let low-tier classes gestalt with other low-tier classes.

For example, you wouldn't let a Factotum gestalt with a Warblade, but you'd let a Samurai gestalt with a Monk.

Seffbasilisk
2010-09-20, 09:54 PM
Quick and dirty.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a

Dead levels fill in.

Have them find a broken-down peddler's wagon, get some gear.

Get them to read more, and do other things to kick their imaginations into a higher gear.

JoshuaZ
2010-09-20, 09:57 PM
Or you could use Tome of Battle. But yeah. just gestalting the low level characters helps. Once you bump everyone high enough to be T3 most issues go away.

Postmodernist
2010-09-20, 11:18 PM
Quick and dirty.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a

Dead levels fill in.

Have them find a broken-down peddler's wagon, get some gear.

Get them to read more, and do other things to kick their imaginations into a higher gear.

From your link-


The monk is the only other core class, aside from the barbarian, that has no dead levels. Players always have something to look forward to with the monk, which boasts the most colorful and unique special abilities of all the character classes.

Not helpful, but the quote needs to be posted for hilarity's sake.

HunterOfJello
2010-09-20, 11:25 PM
I think that may be the worst WotC article I've seen online.


Druids really have so few abilities that they need free spell resistance against fey at high levels? God Damn.

JaxGaret
2010-09-20, 11:29 PM
For quick and dirty versatility, let low-tier classes gestalt with other low-tier classes.

For example, you wouldn't let a Factotum gestalt with a Warblade, but you'd let a Samurai gestalt with a Monk.

It really depends on what tier you're attempting to balance the game around.

If you're trying to get everyone as close to Tier 1 as possible, you can allow Tier 2s to gestalt with Tier 6s, Tier 3s to gestalt with Tier 5s, and Tier 4s to gestalt with each other.

Frosty
2010-09-20, 11:37 PM
It really depends on what tier you're attempting to balance the game around.

If you're trying to get everyone as close to Tier 1 as possible, you can allow Tier 2s to gestalt with Tier 6s, Tier 3s to gestalt with Tier 5s, and Tier 4s to gestalt with each other.

I want everyone around tier 3 ish.