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grimbold
2010-09-21, 05:28 AM
what roles can i give commoners and experts in my world? asides from farmers blacksmiths, tavern owners teachers and coopers i don't have a lot of ideas. the other classes are easy but those 2 are very ambiguous and i need help and advice on giving them jobs

kamikasei
2010-09-21, 05:30 AM
Every ordinary person who isn't a Warrior or Aristocrat?

Virtually every craftsman, tradeperson, merchant, peasant, unskilled labourer, etc. - pretty much anything you can think of - will be one of the two.

edit: Actually I'm puzzled by the question itself. Why are you starting with the NPC classes and trying to come up with jobs for them? Is the problem actually the reverse - you're not sure what kind of people would populate your setting?

Zeta Kai
2010-09-21, 05:42 AM
NPC concepts for a Commoner or an Expert include: Actor, Alchemist, Artist, Athlete, Chef, Courier, Craftsman, Diplomat, Engineer, Expert, Explorer, Guide, Messenger, Minstrel, Prostitute, Sailor, Scholar, Scout, Shopkeeper, Smith, Teacher, & Virtuoso. Below is a list of skill allocations for some common concepts:

Beggar (Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Spot)
Craftsman (Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Spot, Use Rope)
Driver (Balance, Handle Animal, Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Spot, Use Rope)
Farmer (Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Profession, Ride, Use Rope)
Merchant (Appraise, Diplomacy, Forgery, Knowledge, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot)
Porter (Concentration, Handle Animal, Jump, Profession, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope)
Sailor (Balance, Climb, Craft, Intuit Direction, Jump, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope)
Savage (Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Spot, Survival)
Slave (Bluff, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim)
Smith (Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Search, Use Rope)

Mystral
2010-09-21, 06:01 AM
Experts and Commoners share the roles in society. Both classes can be blacksmiths, farmers, alchemists, beggars and mayors.

The question is not about different roles, it is about ability.

Bob the village blacksmith who can, with some time, forge a decent sword? Commoner. Bob the Weaponsmith, with renown trough the whole kingdom for his fine armor and weapons? Expert.

Lisa the barmaid? Commoner. Lisa, the owner of the prestigious Three Dragons Inn and important contact person for any adventurer who seeks employment in the city? Expert.

That said, Warriors, Experts and Commoners make up the majority of the worlds population, and commoners greatly outnumber the first two. If there is no need to give an NPC a class, make him a commoner or expert, unless he's part of the militia or city guard, then, make him a fighter.

grimbold
2010-09-21, 06:10 AM
thank you guys, i am having issues because 75 pages into my world i am getting slowly worn out, i want 100 pages by christmas

hamishspence
2010-09-21, 06:11 AM
Races of Faerun suggests commoners tend to be illiterate except in cases of exceptionally literate races (such as sun elves).

Maybe the tough, illiterate farmer, who took charge in a crisis (such as monster invasion or disease outbreak) and organized the defense of the town, becomes beloved by the townsfolk and promoted to mayor.

This might explain why the mayor can be a commoner and not an expert or aristocrat.

Cityscape does suggest aristocrats don't have to be members of the noble caste- they can be career politicians.

jiriku
2010-09-21, 08:14 AM
thank you guys, i am having issues because 75 pages into my world i am getting slowly worn out, i want 100 pages by christmas

Ack! Ur doin it rong. Run a campaign in your world. A long one, set in one specific region of the world and largely staying there. It will give you plenty inspiration for at least another 20 pages.

Calmar
2010-09-21, 09:52 AM
I think the commoner is a theoretical class for NPCs without class. The guy without many useful abilities who's unlikely to survive a fight anyway probably is a commoner 1-3. I mean, you won't find a commoner 11 running around anywhere, because anything this guy is supposed to do can better be represented with levels as expert, warrior, or some character class.

Greenish
2010-09-21, 10:07 AM
thank you guys, i am having issues because 75 pages into my world i am getting slowly worn out, i want 100 pages by christmasSetting a page number and trying to fill it doesn't sound like the best way to build a campaign world. No one is going to bother to read those 100 pages just to play in your campaign, anyway.

I mean, you won't find a commoner 11 runningh around anywhereI found a level 19 (or 18, I forget) one running around in Sharn - The City of Towers. She was sort of a politician, one of the elected representatives of her district, if my memory serves.

hamishspence
2010-09-21, 10:10 AM
If the DMG rules are followed- they pretty much demand that at least some high-level commoners are running around.

Question is- do high levels translate to high influence in at least some field?

kamikasei
2010-09-21, 10:11 AM
Maybe the tough, illiterate farmer, who took charge in a crisis (such as monster invasion or disease outbreak) and organized the defense of the town, becomes beloved by the townsfolk and promoted to mayor.

This might explain why the mayor can be a commoner and not an expert or aristocrat.
I'd expect such a character to level as at least an Expert if not Aristocrat, unless he didn't gain any levels after becoming mayor. Even if he still couldn't read, it'd represent having to pick up a variety of people skills quickly.

hamishspence
2010-09-21, 10:16 AM
True- it would probably represent him only shortly after having been given the role.

Ossian
2010-09-21, 10:24 AM
Commoners, in theory, aren't supposed to go adventuring, though they might have a brush with danger from time to time. High level ones tend to be respected members of their community, and to be rather senior. They have picked up a smattering of a bunch of useful skills, and are probably very good at doing one thing. The respected Sr.farmer, who breeds the best mustangs of the region, might well be a level 15 Commoner. By that level he will have seen a river flood, a couple of raids from the Earl's men-at-arms, fended off cattle raiders a bunch of times, rescued a calf from a crevice, a bunch of tavern brawls, courted and possibly married someone, won a contest of rock throwing, hunted down a dangerous boar and conducted a couple dozen difficult transactions with neighboring farmers, perhaps on border disputes and the like. He'll be 50-something, and know his s**t on horses, crops and leather work.

Voilá, no too bad.

Experts are perhaps a notch up. The Alderman might be a level 10 or higher "expert". A skilled trader and merchant, a good diplomat with all of the guilds' bickering, a man you won't bully or intimidate, no matter if you are the Earl, the Bishop or the leader of the brigands.

O.

Morph Bark
2010-09-21, 10:55 AM
.
If I am going to go by the "question" in the thread title, and I am, then here are some (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9361109) totally (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9342772) shameless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9327762) plugs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168226) for you.
.

Telonius
2010-09-21, 11:18 AM
There's also the ever-popular "Siege Weapon" and "Transportation Device" uses. :smallbiggrin:

grimbold
2010-09-21, 12:55 PM
telonius you scare me

anyway in my world there are high level commoners who are leaders of unions :). They organize events for The People. And f.y.i i am currently running a campaign right now working in my dwarven lands :).

Telonius
2010-09-21, 01:24 PM
Just google "commoner railgun" and you'll see what I mean. :smallamused:

Greenish
2010-09-21, 01:29 PM
Just google "commoner railgun" and you'll see what I mean. :smallamused:Of course, it doesn't actually work.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-21, 01:36 PM
The Commoner Package Delivery Service, on the other hand, does.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-09-21, 01:39 PM
And if you want to get really crazy, Commonernet is theoretically buildable.

Yuki Akuma
2010-09-21, 01:47 PM
Of course, a single 8-bit RAM chip would take a whole bunch of commoners.

Mojo_Rat
2010-09-21, 01:49 PM
the Game Mastery guide from Paizo has a section on NPCs at the back with many of them being NPC classes or npc/pc class multi classes. If you are not playing PFRPG it may not be as useful but i found the book a really good read for that section.

Duke of URL
2010-09-21, 02:29 PM
Of course, a single 8-bit RAM chip would take a whole bunch of commoners.

That's okay, they're cheap.

Commoner = cannon fodder.

Well, for that matter, so are most NPC classes, but they're useful for other things, too.

Cogidubnus
2010-09-21, 03:28 PM
Commoners are the majority of your population. Most of your population in the average DnD setting are peasants and serfs. They farm, they tithe, they die of the Black Death.

jiriku
2010-09-21, 03:48 PM
I'd expect such a character to level as at least an Expert if not Aristocrat, unless he didn't gain any levels after becoming mayor. Even if he still couldn't read, it'd represent having to pick up a variety of people skills quickly.

Unless he turned out to be a lousy mayor. :smalltongue:

Cieyrin
2010-09-21, 03:59 PM
I'd expect such a character to level as at least an Expert if not Aristocrat, unless he didn't gain any levels after becoming mayor. Even if he still couldn't read, it'd represent having to pick up a variety of people skills quickly.

Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) would like to have a word with you about that.

Jabas
2010-09-21, 04:05 PM
I'd suggest checking out the career system in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, either 1st or 2nd edition, if you're able to. Most of the careers available to PCs reflect those of "normal" people (rat catcher, anyone?) who have given them up to begin a life adventuring. Also the way the careers are split into Basic and Advanced might suggest how you can differentiate between Commoner and Expert. Don't be afraid to rely on other sources outside of published D&D material.

grimbold
2010-09-22, 07:30 AM
oo thanks for tip nucleus

there is also commoner zombie warfare.
find out where there have been cities killed because of black death or plague bring lots of wands of animate dead and some spare commoners with ranks in use magic device, hope some roll high enough to use the spell. Dominate person the commoners, now you can control even moar zombies!
also when the orcs attack you re-animate the ones you kill and send them right back in the orcs lair or dungeon, (fun easy dungeon clearing)

Edit; just found a great site :) list of jobs http://hkcarms.tripod.com/occ.html

Ernir
2010-09-22, 07:55 AM
Question is- do high levels translate to high influence in at least some field?

My take on that is - not necessarily. But that practically, it does, because high level people tend to be extraordinarily good at the things they do.

hamishspence
2010-09-22, 08:01 AM
True- a 10th level commoner with Handle Animal maxed out, and various skill-boosting feats, might be a legendary Horse Whisperer (or nearest equivalent) famed for miles around. With other would-be animal trainers travelling long distances to learn from him.

Duke of URL
2010-09-22, 08:11 AM
Note that from a "mechanical" standpoint, a Commoner is someone who is generally pretty decent at up to 2 types of tasks (maybe 3 with a high intelligence) from its class skills list (Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Jump, Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, Swim, and Use Rope). So, a commoner farmer might have Handle Animal and Profession (farmer), but is otherwise unskilled.

Experts, on the other hand, are more diverse. Because of their larger skill set, they can be more capable or well-rounded than their commoner counterparts. An expert farmer will have Handle Animal and Profession (farmer), but might also have Appraise, Craft (woodworking) Knowledge (local), and Use Rope. His core skills are the same as the commoner, but he can do other things as well which makes him a better farmer than the commoner, with all else being equal. (However, a high-level commoner would be better than a low-level expert at some tasks, just not as diversified.)

A village or small town likely has one or, at most, two experts in any given trade (larger cities will have more), and maybe some trades with no experts. Everyone else would be commoners.

Mordokai
2010-09-22, 08:20 AM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but I always figured commoners are a preffered chow for our kitty overlords :smalltongue:

Morph Bark
2010-09-22, 09:20 AM
Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) would like to have a word with you about that.

He's become a Mayor?! Dang, I really should read up on that thread from where I left it...

Cieyrin
2010-09-22, 03:54 PM
He's become a Mayor?! Dang, I really should read up on that thread from where I left it...

I meant that you don't necessarily need Expert or Aristocrat levels to be mayor material, with Joe Wood being a prime example of a Commoner doing well for himself and having skills of a leaderly type. Joe's 5th level now, owns a house, is an actual citizen of Freetown, has contacts with high level adventurers and other powerful individuals. Yes, Expert levels might make him more skilly and able to do a lot of things but he does work reasonably well with just Commoner levels.

ericgrau
2010-09-22, 04:36 PM
Almost every minor NPC. IMO design the world first and give them the NPC classes second. Every farmer / menial laborer / etc. should be a commoner. Everyone with a profession, every teacher, everyone with any skill, etc. should be an expert.