[3.X]Optimizing a Caber-Tosser: Your Help Needed!

[Amphetryon]

The other day I made a comment in one of the threads here regarding cool weapons that I'd really, really like to see someone optimize caber-tossing in 3.X. This is my rough draft at that concept.

Cabers are found in Masters of the Wild, in 3.0, in case you're hunting for them. I don't recall finding them translated to 3.5. This build uses fractional BAB.

Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/Swordsage 2/Master Thrower 1/Exotic Weapon Master 1/MT +1/EWM +1/MT +1/EWM +1/MT +2/SwS +1/Hulking Hurler 3/SwS +1 (2 with level-buyoff).

Flaws: Non-combatant, Murky Eyed.

Feats: Psicrystal Affinity (Single-Minded), Overchannel (flaw), Talented (flaw), Psicrystal Containment, Power Attack, PBShot, Precise Shot, EWP: Caber, WFocus: Caber, Brutal Throw, Power Throw, Brutal Strike, Psionic Shot, Quick Draw (bonus), Snatch Arrows (bonus), Weapon Focus: Setting Sun Weapons (bonus).

Maneuvers/Stances: Wind Stride, Flashing Sun, Moment of Perfect Mind, Mighty Throw, Clever Positioning, Shadow Jaunt, Stone Vise, Mirrored Pursuit, Scorpion Parry/Stonefoot Stance, Giant Killing Style, Shifting Defense.

Powers: Expansion, Call Weaponry.

I picked Swordsage for the Setting Sun maneuvers, which are thematically best for a thrower; current setup is too Feat-starved to obtain them another way. Call Weaponry seemed a no-brainer compared to carrying around a pile of 120lb logs. :smallamused:

How can we make this better?

[Emmerask]

Needs more Bloodstorm blade :smallwink:

Using iron heart Strikes with your thrown Caber :smallbiggrin:

You can treat your thrown weapon as a melee attack that way you don´t need all those fancy power throw etc feats.

And the Capstone-ability would be glorious indeed ^^

[Greyfell]

Caber was in which book? Arms and equipment?

I have to admit, call weapon is a cool idea, but the idea of pulling a 10+ foot log out of a bag of holding and watching your enemies eyes widen as it keeps coming, and coming.... would work too. :smallbiggrin: For maximum amusement, label the bag of holding with something that says "Caber scabbard"

I'll check my books when I come home and see if I might dd anything to the concept... work calls unfortunately.

[Amphetryon]

Needs more Bloodstorm blade :smallwink:

Using iron heart Strikes with your thrown Caber :smallbiggrin:

You can treat your thrown weapon as a melee attack that way you don´t need all those fancy power throw etc feats.

And the Capstone-ability would be glorious indeed ^^
Bloodstorm Blade is a decent idea, though it seems to work at cross-purposes to the Non-combatant flaw chosen. It would be a substantial re-think. *ponders*


Caber was in which book? Arms and equipment?
I specifically mentioned the book where caber is found in my first post: Masters of the Wild.


I have to admit, call weapon is a cool idea, but the idea of pulling a 10+ foot log out of a bag of holding and watching your enemies eyes widen as it keeps coming, and coming.... would work too. For maximum amusement, label the bag of holding with something that says "Caber scabbard"Bags of Holding are not generally available at low levels, which are where the Psychic Warrior levels sit. Thus the desire for Call Weaponry. "Caber Scabbard" is a funny image, though.

[Darrin]

Bags of Holding are not generally available at low levels, which are where the Psychic Warrior levels sit. Thus the desire for Call Weaponry. "Caber Scabbard" is a funny image, though.

As I pointed out in the other exotic weapon thread, the caber's damage is set by its descriptive text rather than a size table, so even fine-sized cabers do 2d6 damage. Assuming you can get a DM to fall for it, that could make carrying the cabers relatively easy. That and the Sizing property is only a flat +5000 GP.

Can we fit six levels of Dungeon Crasher into this build? Add some Knock-Back and Shocktrooper for directed bull rush, and that may be the best way to get some reliable damage out of this build.

[Amphetryon]

As I pointed out in the other exotic weapon thread, the caber's damage is set by its descriptive text rather than a size table, so even fine-sized cabers do 2d6 damage. Assuming you can get a DM to fall for it, that could make carrying the cabers relatively easy. That and the Sizing property is only a flat +5000 GP.

Can we fit six levels of Dungeon Crasher into this build? Add some Knock-Back and Shocktrooper for directed bull rush, and that may be the best way to get some reliable damage out of this build.
Psychic Warrior, as I indicated in the text you quoted, is taken at the first two levels for Call Weaponry (and Expansion, and other goodies...). "Only a flat +5000 GP" seems, by my reading of the WBL tables, to be an unlikely monetary goal for those levels, barring 10' ladders to poles or salty cows. Am I missing your point, or are you indicating that the early levels are not important enough for consideration in the overall scheme of things, and should be completely rethought?

The phrase "assuming you can get a DM to fall for it" runs counter to my sensibilities for how to actually optimize a build, since it reads as being based on 'gotcha gaming.' I'm more likely to believe DMs will read the entry as based on a Medium-sized caber-tosser and sloppy editing. WotC did have an issue or two with 3.X's editing, if memory serves. That's the reading that I've encountered before, and the one I considered when I put forward this concept.

[Darrin]

Psychic Warrior, as I indicated in the text you quoted, is taken at the first two levels for Call Weaponry (and Expansion, and other goodies...). "Only a flat +5000 GP" seems, by my reading of the WBL tables, to be an unlikely monetary goal for those levels, barring 10' ladders to poles or salty cows. Am I missing your point, or are you indicating that the early levels are not important enough for consideration in the overall scheme of things, and should be completely rethought?


Meh. This build is unlikely to do anything interesting until it gets up above ECL 6ish, when you can start taking levels in Bloodstorm Blade, Hulking Hurler, or Dungeon Crasher. So no, I don't consider the early levels all that important. However, Call Weaponry and Expansion do sound fairly important.

Mostly I'm thinking in terms of throwing trees that instantly return to your hand for another throw, and using those multiple throws to bull-rush people into walls. That combo probably won't kick in until about ECL 15ish. So yes, I'm not all that concerned about being all that effective for levels 1-14. I think some people refer to this as "theoretical optimization". If I actually had to play those 1-14 levels... I dunno, I might try it just to see if it could be done.



The phrase "assuming you can get a DM to fall for it" runs counter to my sensibilities for how to actually optimize a build, since it reads as being based on 'gotcha gaming.' I'm more likely to believe DMs will read the entry as based on a Medium-sized caber-tosser and sloppy editing. WotC did have an issue or two with 3.X's editing, if memory serves. That's the reading that I've encountered before, and the one I considered when I put forward this concept.

Just an observation I was hoping someone might capitalize on... but from a practical standpoint, if I tried that I'd probably get a book thrown at me. As far as carrying around multiple cabers... Bloodstorm Blade fixes that problem with the instant returning. Bags of holding/handy haversacks wouldn't work (100 lbs each!), and I don't think the Calling property can't be used on weapons. Ring of Arming would work very well, though!

[herrhauptmann]

How about exotic weapon master? It would delay your bloodstorm blade, but why not?
Tricks:
Closed quarters ranged combat
Exotic sunder
Ranged disarm
Show off

[Amphetryon]

How about exotic weapon master? It would delay your bloodstorm blade, but why not?
Tricks:
Closed quarters ranged combat
Exotic sunder
Ranged disarm
Show off
The build I presented has Exotic Weapon Master 3. So, um?

[herrhauptmann]

The build I presented has Exotic Weapon Master 3. So, um?

Yeah, missed that. So, what book is the caber in? Arms and Equipment guide? :smallwink:

[Amphetryon]

Yeah, missed that. So, what book is the caber in? Arms and Equipment guide? :smallwink:

"Cabers are found in Masters of the Wild, in 3.0, in case you're hunting for them."

... 3 posts later...

"I specifically mentioned the book where caber is found in my first post: Masters of the Wild."

[herrhauptmann]

*facepalm*
Yeah, that one was a joke...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

There's only one thing I can say that would improve your caber tosser.

Hollow out your cabers and fill them with dynamite. Then when you toss them, you yell out "CABER!" and everyone around you will be like "AAH! RUN LIKE HELL!!!"

You'll win every battle, just like the famous half-orc caber tosser Sir Bitchsmack!

(Seriously, I know someone who actually played this character. The rest of the party was equally insane.)