(3.X) I ain't leavin'! (Wonderous Item) (PEACH)

[DracoDei]

THIS THREAD IS PROBABLY OLD ENOUGH THAT ANY FURTHER P.E.A.C.H. SHOULD BE SENT TO ME AS A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO AVOID THREAD-NECROMANCY.

This is a useful defense for anyone venturing off their home plane, or who confront Prismatic type effects (or the Teleporter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168948) class probably). The price is "By the Book" and looks way too high to me, but I want to know what the playground thinks.
Demon's Belt
Despite the name, a large minority of these devices are crafted and/or utilized by Good outsiders. In either case, most feature a lock integrated into the large buckle. This lock has no interaction with the function of the belt as a mundane belt in most cases, and an Open Lock DC of 10 (although more refined, as compared to ruggedized versions that generally exist with higher DCs). The key is often connected to the front of the buckle by a short length of chain.

When the lock is in the "closed" position, the wearer is effected as per Dimensional Anchor. This effect can be activated and deactivated (by unlocking and locking the lock) an unlimited number of times through-out the day, and has no limit on duration. Locking or unlocking is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The usual green field is present in the base version, although their is a "Stealth" version that suppresses this glow.

Moderate Abjuration; CL 7*; Craft Wondrous Item, Dimensional Anchor; Price 56,000 gp(Base), 62,500 gp (Stealth); Cost 28,000 gp + 2,240 xp(Base), 31,250 gp + 2,500 xp (Stealth)
*The very best of these will have a higher caster level(and associated higher cost) to counter Dispel+Banish combos.

Cost calculation
2 1= multiplier for Dimensional Anchor having a 1 minute/level duration EDIT: except that having it on all the time is usually a bad idea for anyone who can afford it.
4 = Spell level
7 = caster level (minimum for Dimensional Anchor)
2,000 = Use activated or Continuous
21*4*7*2,000 =7*16,0008,000=112,000 56,000 GP

[DracoDei]

Complete and ready for critique.
As I said, the price looks a little high.

[Soren Hero]

so, what is the purpose of this item? is it to keep yourself from being banished? it seems that this item actually hinders the wearer more than helps it

[Morph Bark]

Are spells and spell-like abilities used by the wearer also affected? If so, then yeah, this likely hinders them more than helping them.

[DracoDei]

so, what is the purpose of this item? is it to keep yourself from being banished?
Yes.

Are spells and spell-like abilities used by the wearer also affected? If so, then yeah, this likely hinders them more than helping them.
Yes, they are affected. Since you mentioned it I might make an improved version that allows the wearers own abilities to go through, or even that of their allies, but for the basics, the wearer does have to make strategic use of move actions to pick and choose when to have the item on or off. Perhaps another upgrade option that changes it to Swift? Perhaps a "Time Delay" or "After next [Teleportation] effect" mode, so that the wearer can teleport in then have the device automatically turn on? Really, what with the offensive uses of Plane Shift, Prismatic Effects (particularly Spray), and Dismissal/Banishment (although those have the HD factors in them for scaling) that there is a place for something like this.

[Soren Hero]

what with the offensive uses of Plane Shift, Prismatic Effects (particularly Spray), and Dismissal/Banishment (although those have the HD factors in them for scaling) that there is a place for something like this.

i think there is a use for this item, but it seems terribly expensive to combat those spells at 120,000 gp, it seems to be only situational, especially against prismatic type spells, because there are 6 other effects to worry about...what about an item that gives a large resistance to being banished? for example, maybe a +8 to will saves against offensive attempts to plane shift? or simply make the item turn plane shifting into a teleportation effect, like it randomly teleports you somewhere in the plane you are in

[DracoDei]

i think there is a use for this item, but it seems terribly expensive to combat those spells at 120,000 gp, it seems to be only situational, especially against prismatic type spells, because there are 6 other effects to worry about...what about an item that gives a large resistance to being banished? for example, maybe a +8 to will saves against offensive attempts to plane shift? or simply make the item turn plane shifting into a teleportation effect, like it randomly teleports you somewhere in the plane you are in
I SAID it seemed over-priced to me... and I would rather drop the price than change the effect(s) to something as different as what you suggest. I am very much aware that the pricing stuff in the SRD is only a SUGGESTION.

So, what do people think IS a fair value for this?

[Cieyrin]

So, what do people think IS a fair value for this?

Before that, I'm wondering where the basis for the Stealth version price comes in, as I don't think removing fluff text should cost 13k.

As for the actual price, it's at around the same price as an Amulet of the Planes, so it may actually be reasonable, price-wise, since they're sort of similar effects, if inverse.

If you want to cut the cost some, you could put a use limit on it, which cuts the cost considerably. 5/day at 7 minutes a piece is just over 50k. Another cost saving measure is you could attach a skill check to using it properly, such as having to make a Knowledge(Planes) check to ensure the belt is properly locked to the correct plane. I don't have a DMG on me which has the side bar in question, since it's not in the SRD, but that should knock off 10-30% off the final price.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[DracoDei]

Important design philosophy note: This is NOT primarily intended for PCs. I realize I may have said things in a misleading way before... but I am saying now that this is much more for the Pit Fiend rampaging his way across a city. PC utility is, however, an important secondary concern.


Before that, I'm wondering where the basis for the Stealth version price comes in, as I don't think removing fluff text should cost 13k.
It might when the glow informs your foes of a critical aspect of your defenses, and thus means that they won't waste a spell trying certain things without Dispelling first.

As for the exact 13k increase, I simply rounded up to a convenient number.


As for the actual price, it's at around the same price as an Amulet of the Planes, so it may actually be reasonable, price-wise, since they're sort of similar effects, if inverse.
An Amulet of the Planes doesn't have any draw-backs to its use... this does (as previous posters have commented).


If you want to cut the cost some, you could put a use limit on it, which cuts the cost considerably. 5/day at 7 minutes a piece is just over 50k.
That pretty much ruins the point since you would burn through a lot of charges turning it on and off... and you basically HAVE to be able to turn it off for what I am talking about. Now MAYBE if it had 20 minutes of use per day, and you could divide that up as you wished... but that would be a variant, and I want to focus on the item as it currently exists, or stronger before I get into weaker variants.

Another cost saving measure is you could attach a skill check to using it properly, such as having to make a Knowledge(Planes) check to ensure the belt is properly locked to the correct plane. I don't have a DMG on me which has the side bar in question, since it's not in the SRD, but that should knock off 10-30% off the final price.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.
No more drawbacks I think. The idea is that the formula(e) are really just a rule of thumb and people seem to agree that it gives too high a number in this case. Thus the price needs to be dropped without alteration of the item's function.

[Cieyrin]

An Amulet of the Planes doesn't have any draw-backs to its use... this does (as previous posters have commented).

No Drawbacks? That check you have to make to end up where you intend isn't a drawback? I suppose if you enjoy ending up in random places in the multiverse it isn't a drawback but optimizing to ensure you can make an ability check isn't the easiest thing, really.


That pretty much ruins the point since you would burn through a lot of charges turning it on and off... and you basically HAVE to be able to turn it off for what I am talking about. Now MAYBE if it had 20 minutes of use per day, and you could divide that up as you wished... but that would be a variant, and I want to focus on the item as it currently exists, or stronger before I get into weaker variants.

You mean like the Greater Blurring armor special ability in the MIC? That's not exactly homebrewing there. The issue is extrapolating the value, since that assigns plus value to it, instead of a flat cost. :smallsigh:


No more drawbacks I think. The idea is that the formula(e) are really just a rule of thumb and people seem to agree that it gives too high a number in this case. Thus the price needs to be dropped without alteration of the item's function.

It's not that big of a drawback, especially if you're customizing it for a BBEG of yours, who, as a Pit Fiend, natively has a +29 to Knowledge(Planes) already, so he can easily make a DC 30 without breaking a sweat.

Just making a suggestion on how you can knock some price off of it without going just eyeballing it. The rules say you should compare the item to items of similar price and capability and see how they compare, which I did when I compared it to the Amulet. There's also not a lot of items in that price band to compare to, either, so I worked with what I had available.

[DracoDei]

Yes, Amulet of the Planes has a drawback, my apologies. I would argue that it isn't actually a very severe drawback since you can use it again it if you end up on the wrong plane, and if you end up on the right one, then you are going to have to teleport anyway, since Plane Shift is only accurate to within 500 miles. Also, that is something that most parties can get away with having ONE of in the party, and carried/worn by an int-based character (thus having more like a 50% chance of getting it "right" rather than closer to 75%), whereas this is a defensive item, like a Ring of Fire Resistance. Then again, Plane Shift is a level higher (3 for arcanists, but I think we can ignore that).
5*9*2000 = 90,000... so Amulet of the Planes is over the formula price before you even add in the draw-back... interesting.

I have never even heard of the Greater Blurring enchantment before this.

Starting from similar magic items is good, but looking directly at utility (which TO ME implies a more step-by-step process than "eyeballing it") is even better. Looking at it from the Pit Fiend's perspective, is it worth it at its current price do y'all think? I think we should assume NPC WBL...

Perhaps not multiplying by 2 for the duration, since having it turned on is something of a liability in and of itself?

[Soren Hero]

i think the dmg allows for cost reduction based upon limiting the amount of people who could use the item (im afb at the moment)...i was re-reading the complete cost reduction handbook just now, and it mentions that restricting the item to a certain skill reduces cost by 10%, and by class/alignment drops price by 30%...going by other posters, giving it a Knowledge (planes) requirement would drop the price by a little over 10,000 gp, to 100,800...restricting usage to creatures with outsider levels could reduce the price by another 30%, which would be a little over 70K gp...hope this helps

[Cieyrin]

I have never even heard of the Greater Blurring enchantment before this.

Basically, it's a +3 enhancement that gives you 10 minutes of Blur, divided up as you want.


Perhaps not multiplying by 2 for the duration, since having it turned on is something of a liability in and of itself?

That's not unreasonable, I'd say. 56k Puts it on par with the Cloak of Etherealness, which is probably a good benchmark.