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Black_Zawisza
2010-09-21, 05:55 PM
Are there any crafting skills that are clearly more lucrative than the others? Does it matter which one my character specializes in?

AslanCross
2010-09-21, 06:09 PM
Craft (Woodworking). Build 10-foot ladders. Take them apart into 10-foot poles. Sell. Each 5 copper ladder will net you 4 SP (each 10-foot pole costs 2 SP)

Lord Vukodlak
2010-09-21, 06:44 PM
Craft skills weren't intended to be profitable, they were intended for roleplaying purposes. 1,000gp of raw materials can be turned into 3,000gp of finished product, be that iron into swords or wood into chairs. If the DM doesn't put a limit on how much you can sell your only constraint is how much time you have to craft.


Craft (Woodworking). Build 10-foot ladders. Take them apart into 10-foot poles. Sell. Each 5 copper ladder will net you 4 SP (each 10-foot pole costs 2 SP)

Your assumption that the 10ft ladder is made from two 10ft poles is utterly false try again. Going strictly by the craft rules the raw materials to make a proper 10ft pole is 1/3 the market price period.

Coidzor
2010-09-21, 06:48 PM
Mathing it out.
1. Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
2. Find the DC from the table below.
3. Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
4Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.)

So 1/3 * 5 CP = 1.6666~ or 1.7 cp in base materials.

So, doing a daily craft check...

You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.

A wooden ladder is either a very simple item like a wooden spoon (DC 5) or a typical item (DC 10) as ladders aren't very complex.

So, the minimum successful roll for very simple is 5. 5*5 = 25 cp as a daily check. That's in one fifth of the time it would take to do a craft check in one day. I'm not sure, but I think a day's work is defined as 8 hours for crafting both mundane and magical items.

If it's a typical item, DC 10*10 minimum check result = 100. 100cp/5cp = 20. So that's one twentieth of whatever time period one has to be crafting in. So that's 20 ladders out of a day's work with taking ten with no skill ranks.

20 * 2 = 40 ten foot poles.
20 * 5/3 cp = 33.3333333 cp (33 cp or 34 depending upon rounding. I'll go with 34 due to evenness)


So that's 40 ten foot poles for 34 cp. 2 sp * 40 = 80 sp market price.

So depending either 8 gp or 4 gp in exchange for a day's work and 34 cp or 3.4 sp or .34 gp.

8 / .34 = 23.5294118 (Or 2352.94118% profit if selling as a vendor)
4 / .34 = 11.7647059 (Or 1176.47059% profit if selling to a vendor)

Of course, this all hinges upon the ladders working, and is rather nebulous about how much time it actually takes. And the assumption that if one has such and such time allotted for a day during the craft check and the result of the check allows for completion in a fraction of the time that the reduction in time allows further craft checks for that day to fill up that same time slot.

AFAIK, the profit margin is going to be the same on all crafting checks without exploiting a loophole like the Ladder (10 ft.) into 2 Poles (10 ft.), even with price reducers (I believe there's some feat that reduces all crafting costs, even mundance crafting costs, by 25% or so) that just changes what the profit margin is.

Lower value goods can be created more quickly as opposed to a more valuable product that takes longer to make and gives all of the profit in one lump rather than a more constant stream.

Hague
2010-09-21, 06:51 PM
The best way to make money from craft skills is to form a guild and control a monopoly on one particular craft. Good guys can work with and form a guild. Bad guys can run out the competition. Just because the price of a 10 gp weapon in the PHB is 10 gp, doesn't mean that you can't run a racket and force that price up to 15 gp or more.

Then again, I don't use the stupid "everything players sell is worth half as much, even if they just bought it" rule.

AslanCross
2010-09-21, 06:55 PM
Craft skills weren't intended to be profitable, they were intended for roleplaying purposes. 1,000gp of raw materials can be turned into 3,000gp of finished product, be that iron into swords or wood into chairs. If the DM doesn't put a limit on how much you can sell your only constraint is how much time you have to craft.



Your assumption that the 10ft ladder is made from two 10ft poles is utterly false try again. Going strictly by the craft rules the raw materials to make a proper 10ft pole is 1/3 the market price period.

It was more a tongue-in-cheek comment against the inconsistency of the prices and not meant to be practical advice.

A ladder's construction would involve the use of two 10-foot poles. I don't see how that's "utterly false," and if anything it would either take more work to carve (thus involving an increase in cost) or have more material on it (also costing more). What would it be made of? Duct tape and cardboard?

The bottom line is that it's much cheaper.

Hague
2010-09-21, 06:58 PM
Depends, a ladder could also be one singular pole with alternating rungs on each side.

Edit:




Of course, this all hinges upon the ladders working, and is rather nebulous about how much time it actually takes. And the assumption that if one has such and such time allotted for a day during the craft check and the result of the check allows for completion in a fraction of the time that the reduction in time allows further craft checks for that day to fill up that same time slot.

Also, you'd have to find some stooge to actually buy your ladders...

Coidzor
2010-09-21, 07:04 PM
Depends, a ladder could also be one singular pole with alternating rungs on each side.

Also, you'd have to find some stooge to actually buy your ladders...

:smalltongue: Well, that's adventurers for you. And you're not selling it as a ladder anyway.

With all of those ladder rungs that are left over, if there's a price for kindling (I think there's just firewood for enough for a fire), you can sell 'em as kindling. Or raw materials to the makers of tindertwigs...

And if it's a single beam with alternating rungs, you're likely crossing into post territory as opposed to a pole, anyway.

AslanCross
2010-09-21, 07:21 PM
The alternate rungs ladder would still cost more as a 10-foot pole than a ladder, though not as much as the typical ladder.

I really wouldn't allow this if I were the DM, of course, and I wouldn't fight my DM for it if I tried it as a player. It's just the inherent silliness of the pricing that gets to me.

Lord Vukodlak's point that the crafting rules are more for RP reasons than a profiteering mechanism does stand, though. It's more of "Hey, you know, I spent a couple of years weaving baskets while I was studying magic" instead of "Let's spend some time weaving baskets; adventuring is too risky."

Benly
2010-09-21, 07:34 PM
A ladder is made of two ten-foot poles with holes in them for the rungs.

Holelessness is worth a lot to the discerning adventurer. Why, making your weapon Unholy costs a minimum of 16,000 GP - you're getting a bargain on those poles. :smallwink:

Coidzor
2010-09-21, 07:36 PM
Lord Vukodlak's point that the crafting rules are more for RP reasons than a profiteering mechanism does stand, though. It's more of "Hey, you know, I spent a couple of years weaving baskets while I was studying magic" instead of "Let's spend some time weaving baskets; adventuring is too risky."

Or possibly doing some crafting during downtime while traveling to maximize profit off of the cart or wagon that's going to be used to transport the booty from a dungeon crawl by carrying raw materials that then get converted into finished goods that are less bulky.

Hague
2010-09-21, 07:58 PM
I prefer all my mundane equipment to have masterwork gemwork components. That's why I made my guy have Craft (lapidary). All the gems I find I just add to all my other gear. Ruby-studded Wineskin? Sure thing! Gold-inlaid scroll case? You got it!

ericgrau
2010-09-21, 08:07 PM
While you can triple your money with craft, the gp gained per day is obscenely low. The real answer to make money off of them is "none of the above". Or get 1000 hirelings to assist until your DM cries foul. Or asks you where they all fit, to which you reply sweat shop to which he replies time for an alignment change and/or that's an anachronism.

As for making 10 foot poles, you can't find any buyers except other adventurers. Your scheme lets you sell a grand total of 3, with a large stock of unsold inventory. Sure, 50 are purchased during the same period, but the adventurers paid more for them at other stores because they really don't care. Meanwhile the other store owners are the real economic geniuses, charging extra for items that only rich people use. They won't even buy yours for half, b/c they are getting theirs cheaper than that.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-09-21, 08:57 PM
Or possibly doing some crafting during downtime while traveling to maximize profit off of the cart or wagon that's going to be used to transport the booty from a dungeon crawl by carrying raw materials that then get converted into finished goods that are less bulky.

Well when your a wizard or something you have access to the spell fabricate which can let you instantly create finished goods. Which of course has its own problems.

Hague
2010-09-21, 08:58 PM
Weapons are usually lucrative. Clothes are probably the most in-demand aside from some kind of Craft (vintner) or (brewer) and the like.

Coidzor
2010-09-21, 09:06 PM
Well when your a wizard or something you have access to the spell fabricate which can let you instantly create finished goods. Which of course has its own problems.

Convert those pesky iron doors into instantly salable swords! :smallbiggrin:

Tyndmyr
2010-09-21, 09:09 PM
And before that level, there's the fun of Unseen Crafter, where at level 2, you can make crafter bots that last for day/level, with your craft skills.

This requires no particular work to break. Just use the profits from the sales to purchase eternal wands or pearls of power(whatevers more efficient at the time) of the same spell, for exponentially increasing crafting capability.

Hague
2010-09-21, 09:18 PM
I'd rather just start a mining consortium on some of the cubes of Acheron, seems more lucrative. Where else can Profession (miner) give you your own battleship?

Jack_Simth
2010-09-21, 09:25 PM
Are there any crafting skills that are clearly more lucrative than the others? Does it matter which one my character specializes in?
Yes.

Certain Items are treated as cash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins). So Craft (Linen), Craft(Silk), Craft(Flour), or similar are better for making money than are others.

Edit: Until, of course, you start having access to spells such as Fabricate, which negate (or effectively negate) the time issue.

elonin
2010-09-21, 09:26 PM
I'm not aware of ladders using poles. The long pieces are planks. Also 10' poles are more expensive due to being balanced and harder to select quality of wood.

Fabricate +craft skill is a great way to make a profit. Also, don't forget that your familiar has your skills so they can also craft items.

sambo.
2010-09-21, 09:40 PM
i've got a drow that's making pretty good use of the Craft: Poisonmaking skill.

home brewed DC20 sleepyjus @ level 1 was pretty darn nifty. unfortunatly, the cost of raw materials is getting exponentially higher as i try and craft higher and higher DC poison.

Hague
2010-09-21, 09:44 PM
The trick is to get Animal handling and use the Vermin handling rules. Then you can milk pet critters for their venom. There's also the tried and true use of psionics in making materials for natural poisons.

Coidzor
2010-09-21, 09:46 PM
Yeah, even at 1/3 cost, poisons have the drawbacks of potions (consumables irrevocably destroy wealth) with the additional drawback of being negated by a save.

sambo.
2010-09-21, 09:53 PM
Yeah, even at 1/3 cost, poisons have the drawbacks of potions (consumables irrevocably destroy wealth) with the additional drawback of being negated by a save.
yuh. once i get Arcane Archer levels (ok, i borked my build more than a little, but 'tis fun) and start abusing Imbue Arrow, the poison won't be so much of a front line offense skill like it is now.


The trick is to get Animal handling and use the Vermin handling rules. Then you can milk pet critters for their venom. There's also the tried and true use of psionics in making materials for natural poisons.

hmm, i have a spider familiar, Lillolth. she gieb me +2 Spell Res :)

Hague
2010-09-21, 10:01 PM
Well, poison-making rules actually operate at greater efficiency, they operate at gp/week and sp/day instead and cost 1/6 the cost if materials are available.

Edit: If you have a poisonous familiar, you don't need animal handling then as you can just ask it to give you some venom instead.