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Kantolin
2010-09-22, 04:51 PM
I'm going to be in an epic level game shortly, and I was curious if there was a handbook for it.

It probably won't be the epitome of useful, as we're very low optimization and not using epic spellcasting (And most epic conversations involve neither of those two things), but handbooks are good for showing me things I've overlooked. ^_^

There apparantly used to be one on the wizard's site, but it's been down for awhile.

Edit: In case this is unclear, I'm not looking for the official Epic Level Handbook; I own that (And it's on the SRD). I'm looking for essentially a guide to epic level play - those types of handbooks.

LOTRfan
2010-09-22, 05:10 PM
Yes, there is. It has epic classes, feats, skills, and prestige classes (along with some cool monsters. It is 3e, but I think the srd might have updated it. It is called The Epic Level Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Dungeon-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying/dp/0786926589/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285193352&sr=8-1).

Mystic Muse
2010-09-22, 05:13 PM
Yes, there is. It has epic classes, feats, skills, and prestige classes (along with some cool monsters. It is 3e, but I think the srd might have updated it. It is called The Epic Level Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Dungeon-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying/dp/0786926589/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285193352&sr=8-1).

I think the OP is looking for a guide for epic levels, not the book "Epic level handbook"

Kantolin
2010-09-22, 05:18 PM
I think the OP is looking for a guide for epic levels, not the book "Epic level handbook"

This is what I meant indeed; I own the epic level handbook and it's on the SRD, heh. ^_^

I suppose I could say 'post with a guide for epic play' instead. There's a bunch of 'The Soandso handbook's running around now, so I was hoping someone had the one for epic level play.

Duke of URL
2010-09-22, 08:14 PM
Short version of an "epic handbook":

Take Epic Spellcasting. Win the multiverse.

If you can't qualify for Epic Spellcasting at the earliest possible level, then epic levels are going to really, really suck for you.

On the other hand, if you have a sane DM who puts the ban hammer on Epic Spellcasting, that's a different story.

Kantolin
2010-09-22, 09:17 PM
On the other hand, if you have a sane DM who puts the ban hammer on Epic Spellcasting, that's a different story.

We have that.

(Okay technically, I had to talk him out of allowing epic casting thus his sanity may be in question, but the long and short of it is that we're not using it) ^_^

hamishspence
2010-09-23, 05:05 AM
I think D&Dwiki has some guides by writers, including Frank Trollman, that discuss high level play, including epic.

dsmiles
2010-09-23, 05:55 AM
We have that.

(Okay technically, I had to talk him out of allowing epic casting thus his sanity may be in question, but the long and short of it is that we're not using it) ^_^

That's unfortunate, Epic Spellcasting is sooooooo much fun. You can create your own monsters and everything! (And Nailed to the Sky is awesomesauce!)

Aharon
2010-09-23, 05:56 AM
If the whole group is low optimization, you might be able to continue as usual. That is, as long as your casters don't play it to their full potential, using the powerful spells they have available by that level (Astral Projection comes to mind, as do Shapechange and Gate).

Help is usually focused on specific builds, so if you could tell us what you currently play, and what your character will focus on in the future, we might be better able to give advice.

For starters, the DM could use some help - he should probably not use the monsters in the ELH without a bit of thought. Some of them should be comparatively easy to defeat (e.g. Devastation Vermin), while others (e.g. Demi-Lich) have really good defenses.

@Epic Spellcasting
I think it can be salvaged with houserules - no epic spell can be created withouth the DM's ok. So if you hold back on insane things, and he doesn't use them either, epic spellcasting should be ok - just impose some limit on the allowed amount of mitigation or something, and use your common sense for adjudication (e.g. if a Hellball can be copied by putting lots of metamagic on a normal fireball, which is the case, the epic spell hellball should either be far cheaper, or do something more impressive).

dsmiles
2010-09-23, 05:58 AM
If the whole group is low optimization, you might be able to continue as usual. That is, as long as your casters don't play it to their full potential, using the powerful spells they have available by that level (Astral Projection comes to mind, as do Shapechange and Gate).

Help is usually focused on specific builds, so if you could tell us what you currently play, and what your character will focus on in the future, we might be better able to give advice.

For starters, the DM could use some help - he should probably not use the monsters in the ELH without a bit of thought. Some of them should be comparatively easy to defeat (e.g. Devastation Vermin), while others (e.g. Demi-Lich) have really good defenses.

And some of them are made of awesome, like the Atropal.

Kantolin
2010-09-23, 05:32 PM
I think D&Dwiki has some guides by writers, including Frank Trollman, that discuss high level play, including epic.

Huh... I've been searching for this and can't seem to find information about it. TYping "Frank Tollman" + "Epic" isn't getting my any results. Where?


If the whole group is low optimization, you might be able to continue as usual. That is, as long as your casters don't play it to their full potential, using the powerful spells they have available by that level (Astral Projection comes to mind, as do Shapechange and Gate).

I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem. Shapechange is going to happen by our Druid, who's been looking forward to it, but it's really not much of a problem (Our Cleric's had 9th level spells for a bit now).


Help is usually focused on specific builds,

I wasn't really looking for specific 'try this feat' builds or build advice or the like, though. Just general information - it seems, for example, that saves begin to spike up considerably more quickly than your save DCs, making spells with saves become increasingly less and less useful. Or 'this feat is particularly useful' (Exceptional Deflection), or 'this feat is particularly good to a potentially bannable level'.


For starters, the DM could use some help - he should probably not use the monsters in the ELH without a bit of thought.

That's an irritable feature of this DM, actually, as I'm quite sure that's going to be a problem. The first time I met a swarm was when nobody in the party had an AOE ability of any sort. *Sigh* Oh well...


@Epic Spellcasting
I think it can be salvaged with houserules

Possibly, but we gave it a good look, I pointed out a wide variety of things you can do with it, and we all just decided we'd rather not. It's far too easy for things to become broken in some direction - between useless spells dealing you a billion damage when you cast them, or ridiculous spells ending campaigns.

I mean, I'm sure it can be done - and this group is not at all mechanically minded thus it'd probably be alright in their hands - but we've decided to go without it, except as macguffins or plot elements.