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Jack Zander
2010-09-22, 05:53 PM
How does Bardic Music interact with Perform: Dance?


Once per day per bard level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum bard level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill to qualify; if a bard does not have the required number of ranks in at least one Perform skill, he does not gain the bardic music ability until he acquires the needed ranks.

Emphasis mine. Does Perform: Dance do nothing for a bard?

Starbuck_II
2010-09-22, 05:58 PM
How does Bardic Music interact with Perform: Dance?



Emphasis mine. Does Perform: Dance do nothing for a bard?

Those are examples. Frostburn makes it official that dance can be a perform choice with Snowflake dancing feat.

Jack Zander
2010-09-22, 06:02 PM
Those are examples. Frostburn makes it official that dance can be a perform choice with Snowflake dancing feat.

That's good to know for Shadowdancer bards then.

Forged Fury
2010-09-22, 06:02 PM
How does Bardic Music interact with Perform: Dance?

Emphasis mine. Does Perform: Dance do nothing for a bard?
Finger Cymbals FTW

Edit: Every time your character activates Bardic Music, make sure to play the Prince song Seven for even more awesome.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 06:03 PM
My dancer has a tambourine.

Katana_Geldar
2010-09-22, 06:05 PM
My dancer has a tambourine.

This is so crying out for an ABBA reference.

Player3
2010-09-22, 06:19 PM
This is so crying out for an ABBA reference.

The bard is a dancing queen? :smalltongue:

cupkeyk
2010-09-22, 07:27 PM
I had a bard with hip bells ( I am not sure what they were called, but the ones that Shakira wears)

Morithias
2010-09-22, 07:29 PM
Wait if you use dance for your perform skill, doesn't that mean you actually CAN help a move silent check with it?

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 08:03 PM
Heck, Virtuoso allows one to use BOEF's Perform: Blue skill for bardic effects.

Never really did figure out if one could use Perform: Blue for regular Bard though.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 08:06 PM
Perform: Blue?

Savannah
2010-09-22, 08:14 PM
I had a bard with hip bells ( I am not sure what they were called, but the ones that Shakira wears)

Oh, man! Now I have to add that to my list of instruments I want to play a bard using. I'm aware that the grammar in that sentence is funky.

List of bards that Savannah must play:
Bagpiper
Accordion player
Bellydancer

To somewhat contribute to the topic: As a DM I would allow a bard to be a dancer rather than a musician. I can see where the designers were coming from, however, as I've never heard of one of the wandering bards (that I'm assuming they based the class on) dancing.

Katana_Geldar
2010-09-22, 08:19 PM
They would have a dancer with them, maybe. But performing dancing for others was generally seen as something that disreputable people did (i.e. gypsies). Though troubedour's songs aren't exactly squeaky clean...

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 09:01 PM
To somewhat contribute to the topic: As a DM I would allow a bard to be a dancer rather than a musician. I can see where the designers were coming from, however, as I've never heard of one of the wandering bards (that I'm assuming they based the class on) dancing.

Pfft. Like loyalty to source material is something worth considering. :smalltongue:


Perform: Blue?

Book of Erotic Fantasy. Summons the Beast with X Backs.
This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9307446&postcount=61) out of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167278&page=3)

Edit: This build instead. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9308618&postcount=69)

Lady Moreta
2010-09-22, 09:10 PM
My bard is a dancer :smallsmile:

DM ruled that since bardic dance requires people to be able to see and hear you that she would need something audible. She wears tiny bells on her ankles.

If anyone is familiar with the works of David Eddings, she's basically a Nadrak dancer :smallbiggrin:

Thurbane
2010-09-22, 09:10 PM
I don't see how the Snowflake Wardance make Perform Dance legal for a Bardic Music ability...it simply requires ranks in perform dance, and burns one Bardic Music ability usage to activate the ability granted by the feat. I'm not 100% sure this equals "You can use Dance for Bardic Music abilities in general".

...anyhow, the Versatile Performer feat can help letting your ranks in one type of Perform count as others...

Crasical
2010-09-22, 10:06 PM
Book of Erotic Fantasy. Summons the Beast with X Backs.
This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9307446&postcount=61) out of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167278&page=3)

In the future, please link to Zaydos' version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9308618&postcount=69), using the Sorcerer. It's much better than the version I did.

... Heh. Just noticed he unveiled that on Post 69. Heh.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 10:35 PM
In the future, please link to Zaydos' version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9308618&postcount=69), using the Sorcerer. It's much better than the version I did.

... Heh. Just noticed he unveiled that on Post 69. Heh.

Just grabbed the first post where it seemed the topic shifted, haha. x.x

JonestheSpy
2010-09-22, 10:38 PM
If anyone is familiar with the works of David Eddings, she's basically a Nadrak dancer :smallbiggrin:

The Nadraks were totally my favorite nationality in the Eddings books.

Ajadea
2010-09-22, 11:09 PM
I always thought that Bards would need to be audible and visible for Bardic Music, but being a Dance-bard with Mwk Shoes as your instrument (you know, like the masterwork instruments in Comp. Adventurer?) would allow you to have non-audible dances that still work. Of course, the bard must be visible still, and actually being silent would mean a Move Silently check or something.

Said dance-bard would also be incapable of Stilling spells but would be perfectly capable of Silencing them.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 11:13 PM
You could always be tap-dancing in those shoes.

Lady Moreta
2010-09-22, 11:16 PM
I always thought that Bards would need to be audible and visible for Bardic Music,

This is why my DM ruled that my bard had to have something that would make noise. It's gotten to the point that if she fails a move silently check, it's because she forgot to take the bells off first. :smalltongue:

There's never been any problem with her being audible and visible for making bardic music work, probably because the ones that are iffy with a dancer have never come up.

Malbordeus
2010-09-23, 04:02 AM
i think Perform: High comedy
or perform: Sing Badly

are my favourites

but now

Perform: Highland Fling

akma
2010-09-23, 04:31 AM
And everyone looked at me wierd whenever it got mentioned that my bard uses a mandolin...

Malbordeus
2010-09-23, 07:15 AM
how do you play an orange?:smallconfused:

dsmiles
2010-09-23, 07:36 AM
List of bards that Savannah must play:
Bagpiper
Accordion player
Bellydancer
Vaudevillian
Mime



How's that for an addition?

akma
2010-09-23, 07:45 AM
how do you play an orange?:smallconfused:

You got confused with something with similiar name. Here is a picture of a mandolin: http://hoogel.co.il/CustomerImages/28347/%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%93%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%941. jpg

Starbuck_II
2010-09-23, 08:23 AM
I don't see how the Snowflake Wardance make Perform Dance legal for a Bardic Music ability...it simply requires ranks in perform dance, and burns one Bardic Music ability usage to activate the ability granted by the feat. I'm not 100% sure this equals "You can use Dance for Bardic Music abilities in general".

...anyhow, the Versatile Performer feat can help letting your ranks in one type of Perform count as others...

Because it is an official example that you can choose perform Dance.

Thurbane
2010-09-23, 05:10 PM
I don't think the fact you can choose Perform (Dance) as a skill has been in question, has it? Several PrCs have it as a req. The question is whether you can use it for Bardic Music...

Snake-Aes
2010-09-23, 05:25 PM
I don't think the fact you can choose Perform (Dance) as a skill has been in question, has it? Several PrCs have it as a req. The question is whether you can use it for Bardic Music...

The perform has to be audible. So basically anything verbal or musical. Perform(Oratory) Inspire Heroics: WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?
That kind of stuff.
Dances aren't defined by the sound they make, so you'll be hardpressed to find MUSIC made of dancing.

Hague
2010-09-23, 05:28 PM
Couldn't you just say that there's clapping involved in the dance and end that argument right away?

Snake-Aes
2010-09-23, 05:34 PM
Couldn't you just say that there's clapping involved in the dance and end that argument right away?

DM Fiat. By default if the perform doesn't consist of an auditory effect, it doesn't work.

Mongoose87
2010-09-23, 05:38 PM
Couldn't you just say that there's clapping involved in the dance and end that argument right away?

If you're going to do that, just make it Perform: Clap and enjoy the fact that your applause makes everyone better.

tbarrie
2010-09-23, 05:44 PM
If you're going to do that, just make it Perform: Clap and enjoy the fact that your applause makes everyone better.

Perform: Slow, Sarcastic Clap.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-23, 05:47 PM
Perform: Slow, Sarcastic Clap.

Perform (Golf Clap)
Perform (Candy Wrapper Blowing)
Perform (Moans of Agony)
Perform (Knock Knock Jokes)
Perform (Alphabet Burping)


And for those who use their performances for something other than bardic music...
Perform (Facepalming)
Perform (Blank Stare)

Coidzor
2010-09-23, 05:48 PM
What on earth is High Comedy? :smallconfused: I mean, other than...

Forged Fury
2010-09-23, 05:50 PM
I have a character with Perform (Witty Banter).

Then again, I have a character with Profession (Oldest) in a noir Eberron game.