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The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 06:04 PM
The title says it all; I can't seem to find it.

Kylarra
2010-09-22, 06:06 PM
Result of this spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) perhaps?

or maybe I'm missing something.

Forged Fury
2010-09-22, 06:07 PM
The title says it all; I can't seem to find it.

Uh, I'm not so sure the title says it all. Can you put "awakened" in context?

The most obvious choice would be the spell Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm).

ETA: Swordsaged

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 06:08 PM
Awakened is not, as you might expect, a Template. Instead, "Awakened" creatures are ones who have had Awaken ______ cast on them. There's an Awaken variant for just about every usually-mindless creature type.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 06:08 PM
I thought there was a template for it.

well that explains it; sorry for the bad question.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 06:24 PM
similar question then; how do I make an anthro-animal?

Flickerdart
2010-09-22, 06:26 PM
similar question then; how do I make an anthro-animal?
Those rules are in Savage Species, I believe. Don't use them.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 06:27 PM
There are several options for your furry needs if you really need to be one without cracking open that template.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 06:31 PM
:smallannoyed:

this is because my group wants me to be less powerful. they think me being an animal will accomplish that better.

Brendan
2010-09-22, 06:33 PM
I don't think playing an anthropomorphic bat would make you weaker...

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 06:34 PM
Or a tibbet for that matter.

Um. Yeah...

Maybe some other direction and background info would help.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 06:34 PM
Seconded. Also seconding the desire for rules though.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 06:35 PM
Can't tell you, it's not free info. You'll have to buy Savage Species for it.

Prime32
2010-09-22, 06:39 PM
:smallannoyed:

this is because my group wants me to be less powerful. they think me being an animal will accomplish that better....I'm not sure you know what "anthropomorphic" means.
http://www.crotchmail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/bugs-bunny.jpg
You have human level intelligence, you can still talk and wield weapons. But you get a bunch of overpowered animal-themed abilities too (anthro squids keep their extra limbs for instance, getting insane grapple bonuses, while anthro bats have +6 Wis, flight and blindsight for LA +0).

ToySoldierCPlus
2010-09-22, 06:47 PM
Not that being an awakened animal is much better. Broken in the opposite direction, that, as spells with somatic components are out, you can't wield weapons, and you arguably can't take class levels in the first place. YMMV on that last part, however.

Flickerdart
2010-09-22, 07:03 PM
Not that being an awakened animal is much better. Broken in the opposite direction, that, as spells with somatic components are out, you can't wield weapons, and you arguably can't take class levels in the first place. YMMV on that last part, however.
A maximized awaken leaves you with a tasty 18 INT, though, and a +3 CHA. Or all 18s in mental stats if you're a tree. You know what loves 18 INT and doesn't give a rat's ass about somatic components or weapons? Psionics.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 07:04 PM
this is my group's suggestion, not my own. I normally dominate our games by knowing what to do when something happens. Usually this is blamed on my characters (Ex. people think I'm cheating when my swordsage teleports to jump a large gap.)

for the record, I never play casters. ever. the closest thing to a caster that I've ever played with this group is a psychic warrior/pyrokineticist (also called overpowered). Generally, I try to be the tank and let everyone else do their own ineffective thing while I try to be useful.

anyway, they're tired of me being so effective, so they think that me being an animal might take me down a notch or two. I've tried telling them that it won't, but they're set on it.

thanks for the responses.

EDIT: and yes, I am aware of what both awakened and anthropomorphic mean for a character, I just didn't know where to find it.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 07:04 PM
... Now I've got this image of a bear running around mind reading people XD

Ravens_cry
2010-09-22, 07:13 PM
I so want to play an awakened cat some time as a rogue. Now scratch my belly human, your master requires it.

ToySoldierCPlus
2010-09-22, 07:16 PM
A maximized awaken leaves you with a tasty 18 INT, though, and a +3 CHA. Or all 18s in mental stats if you're a tree. You know what loves 18 INT and doesn't give a rat's ass about somatic components or weapons? Psionics.

True, and I do so love psionics. Still leaves you with the potential problem of not being able to take class levels as an awakened animal, but that's more up to your DM than anything else. Of course, if your DM is allowing awakened animals as characters, they've already decided that it's fine for them to take class levels, but I remember reading something about creatures having to have an overall humanoid shape and above-animal intelligence to take class levels. No clue where I think found that at this point, though.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 07:23 PM
I so want to play an awakened cat some time as a rogue. Now scratch my belly human, your master requires it.

a cat shadowdancer would be fun.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 08:22 PM
No, no, no. A cat shadowdancer is fine too.

Anyway, progressively gimping your characters simply because you are more aware of your abilities than the other players is... perhaps not the best solution.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-22, 08:37 PM
a cat shadowdancer would be fun.
Indubitably, The Rabbler, indubitably.

Dr.Epic
2010-09-22, 08:40 PM
Result of this spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) perhaps?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The only thing that changes is that it can talk and has decent int, wis, and cha stats.

Dralnu
2010-09-22, 08:43 PM
I now crave to make a Platypus Psion as a BBEG in my campaign. It would be glorious!

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 08:55 PM
I now crave to make a Platypus Psion as a BBEG in my campaign. It would be glorious!

Pfft. Just have a Psion Sandvich.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:02 PM
Anyway, progressively gimping your characters simply because you are more aware of your abilities than the other players is... perhaps not the best solution.

I know, but it's all my group really knows how to do. Though some of them have spent time on the playground, none of them really learned much. Before a month ago, they didn't believe that a rogue was allowed to make more than one sneak attack each round (because 30d6 at level 20 is OP amirite?).

more on topic: I play progressively weaker characters and each class that I use generally becomes considered overpowered (from ToB to factoti to psionics in general). Not sure what to do anymore, so I've just started letting them gimp me and I deal with it.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 09:06 PM
Sounds like they need to actually read the rules, especially for their classes.

Have you considered maybe dropping down in tier to, I dunno, Complete Warrior Samurai?

Ooo, or play an Adept.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:07 PM
Complete Warrior Samurai. Or, hell, just a plain old Warrior.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:07 PM
Sounds like they need to actually read the rules, especially for their classes.

Have you considered maybe dropping down in tier to, I dunno, Complete Warrior Samurai?

Ooo, or play an Adept.

I considered the CW samurai, but I still want to be able to do something.

Adept might be worth looking into though.

EDIT: aren't adepts tier 5? definitely too powerful.


Complete Warrior Samurai. Or, hell, just a plain old Warrior.

warrior can still power attack :smallwink:

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:12 PM
Max out your Intimidate and SCARE your opponents to death. Sheeky did it.

Adept is Tier 4.

What about an Aristocrat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm)?

Chipp Zanuff
2010-09-22, 09:14 PM
EDIT: aren't adepts tier 5? definitely too powerful.


Either you really don't understand the Tiers system, or you are trolling.


And if so, then I am disappoint.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:15 PM
Either you really don't understand the Tiers system, or you are trolling.


And if so, then I am disappoint.

He's being ordered to nerf himself. Horribly. He is saying "They'd be too powerful for the group"

Chipp Zanuff
2010-09-22, 09:16 PM
He's being ordered to nerf himself. Horribly. He is saying "They'd be too powerful for the group"

Tier 5 is the bottom of the rung. The only thing worse than that is Truenamer.


And Adepts are Tier 4: On par with classes like the Ranger, the Scout, and other decent (if niche) classes.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:19 PM
I'd say a little bit of both. :smallbiggrin:

and as for intimidating people, it'd work if we decided to stay in cityscape for the entirety of a campaign and we never ran across a paladin past level... 3? anyway, my group likes to play at 5-13; after the 1-shot levels, but before the major s**tstorm. I would actually play the CW samurai in my group if damn near every monster wasn't immune to fear. then again, it wouldn't be tier 6 if that were the case.

although, CW samurai is surprisingly good in pvp.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:19 PM
this is my group's suggestion, not my own. I normally dominate our games by knowing what to do when something happens. Usually this is blamed on my characters (Ex. people think I'm cheating when my swordsage teleports to jump a large gap.)

for the record, I never play casters. ever. the closest thing to a caster that I've ever played with this group is a psychic warrior/pyrokineticist (also called overpowered). Generally, I try to be the tank and let everyone else do their own ineffective thing while I try to be useful.

anyway, they're tired of me being so effective, so they think that me being an animal might take me down a notch or two. I've tried telling them that it won't, but they're set on it.

thanks for the responses.

EDIT: and yes, I am aware of what both awakened and anthropomorphic mean for a character, I just didn't know where to find it.

See here. I think him being awesome wouldn't break things.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 09:21 PM
Tier 5 is the bottom of the rung. The only thing worse than that is Truenamer.

There's Tier 6. Warrior, Aristocrat, Commoner.

Truenamer is Tier 0 or i.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:22 PM
Truenamer is Tier 0 or i.

... so it's better than a wizard?

edit: or it's imaginary. it only exists by technicality.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 09:24 PM
... so it's better than a wizard?

More like its Tier is imaginary or doesn't exist.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:24 PM
Nah, it sucks. Try for it though XD

Dralnu
2010-09-22, 09:25 PM
Power is all relative. A human warblade could be considered "overpowered" when sitting beside a drow fighter and half-orc bard/cleric.

On the other hand, players can get misconceptions of balance. Using internet sources is a good way to clarify these issues. I have a friend who believes that PHB by itself is a balanced book, and a fighter is equal to a druid. He's playing a crusader for the first time and says that ToB is overpowered. I argue that a PHB fighter is hard-pressed to contend with druid that only uses wildshape and an animal companion, no spells or feats.

If only more people used the internet.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:26 PM
Nah, it sucks. Try for it though XD

I recall someone optimizing it to mild effectiveness. It was interesting to read as apparently you can do some pretty neat stuff with a high enough truenaming modifier.


Power is all relative. A human warblade could be considered "overpowered" when sitting beside a drow fighter and half-orc bard/cleric.

ah, I see you've met my group.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 09:28 PM
Not mild effectiveness. More like, mild functionality.

So, as a challenge to you. Learn the Truenamer. Don't optimize it.

Still outshine party.

Give us a party that believes in their hearts that Truenamer is OP. Only then will your journey to the Dark Side be complete.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:33 PM
Not mild effectiveness. More like, mild functionality.

So, as a challenge to you. Learn the Truenamer. Don't optimize it.

Still outshine party.

Give us a party that believes in their hearts that Truenamer is OP. Only then will your journey to the Dark Side be complete.

My party already knows that the truenamer sucks (somehow?). And I doubt I'd be outshining anyone by buffing them a lot.

also, funny story of the day. my group was discussing how to nerf me and they thought it might be that I always play melee characters. they suggested I instead play a cleric. I lol'd.

Thurbane
2010-09-22, 09:38 PM
On a related note to the OP - has anyone seen or houseruled CR and LA for Awakened beings?

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 09:41 PM
Play a Healer? Using T.G. Oskar's version?

Retooling the Healer (Heal it! ~ Heal it! ~ No one wants to be defeated!) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118)

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 09:42 PM
also worth mentioning: my group absolutely despises homebrew.

Thurbane
2010-09-22, 09:54 PM
If you play a Healer from MH, there is almost 0% chance of you overshadowing anyone! :smallwink:

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 09:55 PM
On a related note to the OP - has anyone seen or houseruled CR and LA for Awakened beings?
I have homebrewed rules for an Awakened Living Spell (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Awakened_Living_Spell), but not for other things. They're sort of complicated but overall I think they make sense and probably shouldn't lead to overpowered characters.

Greymane
2010-09-22, 09:57 PM
I've met people like your group. If they want to become useful, they will, or they may just continue being sub-optimal and enjoy it. If they want to somehow lower how powerful you are, then animal is not the right course. You could do some nasty things with some animals out there.

Samurai was mentioned, and it's pretty awful.

Them getting you to play a full caster is, indeed, hilarious, however... I definitely recommend Adept if you want to be a bit weaker, but useful all the same.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 10:03 PM
I've met people like your group. If they want to become useful, they will, or they may just continue being sub-optimal and enjoy it. If they want to somehow lower how powerful you are, then animal is not the right course. You could do some nasty things with some animals out there.


yea... I tried explaining that.



Them getting you to play a full caster is, indeed, hilarious, however... I definitely recommend Adept if you want to be a bit weaker, but useful all the same.

I don't play full casters because I find spells boring. I like stuff like inspiration points and maneuvers because they're always available (except right after I use them).

relatedly: Flipping through the ToM, I found shadow magic. how does that stand on the power scale?

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 10:08 PM
Fairly cool, some decent effects, overall too few spells/day - even at mid-to-high levels they have a worrisome tendency to be reduced to shooting things with crossbows. That said, there's a pretty decent fix here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/184955-shadowcaster-fixes-mouseferatu.html#post3273239) by the author of the Shadow Magic section of Tome of Magic, which makes it better than homebrew. I don't personally think it goes far enough - but that may be exactly what you're looking for.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 10:14 PM
Fairly cool, some decent effects, overall too few spells/day - even at mid-to-high levels they have a worrisome tendency to be reduced to shooting things with crossbows. That said, there's a pretty decent fix here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/184955-shadowcaster-fixes-mouseferatu.html#post3273239) by the author of the Shadow Magic section of Tome of Magic, which makes it better than homebrew. I don't personally think it goes far enough - but that may be exactly what you're looking for.

so it's basically a reflavored wizard with worse spells? lame. Thanks for the link, but I don't think I'll use a shadowcaster.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 10:20 PM
Why not go Aristocrat on your way to Knight, then Prestige Paladin?

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 10:24 PM
Why not go Aristocrat on your way to Knight, then Prestige Paladin?

my characters are rarely chivalrous. Though I should probably learn how; my DM mentioned wanting to start an OA campaign.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 10:29 PM
If OA, I believe Sohei is the worst of the lot there.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 10:30 PM
In that case, Aristocrat, Samurai, Ronin. =O

No, seriously, Aristocrat is solid CHA, medium BAB and a solid Will save, while Knight and Paladin both have strong Charisma focuses.

Samurai has less Charisma focus, but works out surprisingly well. Though I haven't read OA in a while. I could brush up...

Vexxation
2010-09-22, 10:32 PM
You could always play, like, a Soulborn.

I mean, they suck, but they at least have Soulmelds...

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 10:34 PM
You could always play, like, a Soulborn.

I mean, they suck, but they at least have Soulmelds...

Oh man, I completely forgot about them.

They're like fighters without bonus feats and less essentia (relatively) than psychic warriors get power points, right?

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 10:34 PM
if we're playing OA, I doubt my DM would allow us to use anything non-OA. MAYBE the fighter. Probably the warrior.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 10:37 PM
if we're playing OA, I doubt my DM would allow us to use anything non-OA. MAYBE the fighter. Probably the warrior.

Well, Soulborn's a good, really sucky worse than fighter(?...probably) melee class.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 10:40 PM
Well, Soulborn's a good, really sucky worse than fighter(?...probably) melee class.

but where's the fun in that?

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 10:42 PM
but where's the fun in that?

I dunno, ask your group.

Vexxation
2010-09-22, 10:42 PM
Oh man, I completely forgot about them.

They're like fighters without bonus feats and less essentia (relatively) than psychic warriors get power points, right?

Yeah. They're like a Warrior blended with a weak Incarnate.

Really, Soulborn should just be the NPC Incarnum class...

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 10:43 PM
Looking at OA, Fighter is game.

You may want to try Samurai though. Free gear and you get to upgrade it over time without the wizard's help. I recommend either a Hengeyokai (Hare or Fox, maybe...) (EDIT: Oops, Hengeyokai come with LA+1) or, if he won't budge on the alignment fluff, a Human. If he's going for Rokugan with a strong leaning toward battling Taint, go toward Nezumi. It would be interesting, and makes for good RP.

Flickerdart
2010-09-22, 10:45 PM
Play a Soulknife, they're pretty pitiful. They also can't do their bonus damage more than once/round, which should placate your group.

NineThePuma
2010-09-22, 10:48 PM
There's a build I found on these forums that uses a Psychic Warrior 2/Psion 7/Ranger 1/Ithillid Slayer 10 that could out tank EVERYTHING, EVER.

Vexxation
2010-09-22, 10:49 PM
You could be like a friend of mine I just remembered and play a Bard with a Vow of Silence (not a feat, just a Vow). Inspire via instrumental music, with complete inability to cast spells. For Epicness, break your Vow to save the party against a powerful boss.

My friend spoke not once during the campaign, constantly relaying information using a white board representing his character's parchment, then, as we were about to die, Cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on the Boss, shouting (out of character and in) "Make a Will Save, [Female Dog]!"

It was Epic, and not just because it saved us when the Boss failed its save.

Coidzor
2010-09-22, 11:20 PM
You could be like a friend of mine I just remembered and play a Bard with a Vow of Silence (not a feat, just a Vow). Inspire via instrumental music, with complete inability to cast spells. For Epicness, break your Vow to save the party against a powerful boss.

My friend spoke not once during the campaign, constantly relaying information using a white board representing his character's parchment, then, as we were about to die, Cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on the Boss, shouting (out of character and in) "Make a Will Save, [Female Dog]!"

It was Epic, and not just because it saved us when the Boss failed its save.
Heh. Buomman Bard.

The Rabbler
2010-09-22, 11:30 PM
you know, I've never actually played a bard; though I've heard of some crazy stuff (strangely enough, in my group) that they can do. DFI bards in particular, but somehow one of my groupmates was able to deal damage based on his perform skill. they flavored it as lightning shooting from his lute. it sounded awesome.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-09-23, 12:55 AM
Have you considered a monk? It fits the OA themes. It's generally considered under-powered even if you optimize it. It gets a whole mess of neat if-not-particularly-synergistic abilities. (I don't think I used those hyphens right.) I think monk will be a good fit for you. At least in this instance.

tyckspoon
2010-09-23, 01:46 AM
you know, I've never actually played a bard; though I've heard of some crazy stuff (strangely enough, in my group) that they can do. DFI bards in particular, but somehow one of my groupmates was able to deal damage based on his perform skill. they flavored it as lightning shooting from his lute. it sounded awesome.

Stormsinger prestige class from Frostburn has that as its signature ability. It's a pretty neat class, especially as it offers full casting advancement.

The Rabbler
2010-09-23, 01:58 AM
Have you considered a monk? It fits the OA themes. It's generally considered under-powered even if you optimize it. It gets a whole mess of neat if-not-particularly-synergistic abilities. (I don't think I used those hyphens right.) I think monk will be a good fit for you. At least in this instance.

I'm hesitant to do this because my group absolutely detested my last monk. sure, he was a warforged with battlefists and warforged arm grafts (moar str is moar bettar) who stacked size-increasing stuff and had an effective unarmed strike level of 20 by level 11, but he was still a monk.



Stormsinger prestige class from Frostburn has that as its signature ability. It's a pretty neat class, especially as it offers full casting advancement.

that's probably what it was. That's what I'll be doing if I ever make a bard. That and DFI.