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big teej
2010-09-22, 07:09 PM
greetings members of the playground.

as I'm sure I've mentioned some time in the past, I don't play squishy casters that much (i've played a single d4 caster, a necromancer, for A session)

and I've never DM'd for a squishy caster

so I have a optimization request.... sorta

the module I"m running calls for a 2nd level necromancer as a boss

I'm asking for help in putting together a reasonably confident 2nd level necromancer


for purposes of this build you have the following restricitosn
dnd wiki ONLY
sorcerer or necromancer classes (necromancer given on the wiki)
must include magic missle and detect magic (the only spells given in the module)
assume no familiar

the necromancer/sorcerer will also have 3 skeletons to command.

he is armed with a dagger and has AC 12
and a constitution of 14-15


if any further information is required, I will be glad to supply it.


READY
GO

Mystic Muse
2010-09-22, 07:13 PM
it would help if you linked the class in question.

Also, only magic missile and detect magic are allowed as spells? That won't allow you to build a competent anything let alone a necromancer.

D&D wiki only is another odd restriction.

big teej
2010-09-22, 07:19 PM
it would help if you linked the class in question.

Also, only magic missile and detect magic are allowed as spells? That won't allow you to build a competent anything let alone a necromancer.

D&D wiki only is another odd restriction.

my apologies for being unclear :smallfrown:

here is the link for the necromancer class
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

second, I meant the build must INCLUDE magic missle and detect magic, as these are the spells given in the module. anything else is fair game provided its source is okayed

and last, aside from the DMG, I only have access to the wiki.
if you would rather use the hypertext SRD, this is acceptable as well.

edit: the adventuring party consists of the following
1 elven ranger (ranged)
1 human ranger (melee)
1 elven druid
1 elven rogue
1 dwarf fighter
1 human paladin

with additional support if the party requests it in the form of character's I've played in the past. (when all 6 players are present, they may not request help)

that better?

Sucrose
2010-09-22, 07:35 PM
my apologies for being unclear :smallfrown:

here is the link for the necromancer class
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

second, I meant the build must INCLUDE magic missle and detect magic, as these are the spells given in the module. anything else is fair game provided its source is okayed

and last, aside from the DMG, I only have access to the wiki.
if you would rather use the hypertext SRD, this is acceptable as well.


that better?

Fix the link.

Past that, I think that you ask the impossible. Neither a Necromancer nor a Sorcerer can control undead at 2nd level; that requires Command Undead (a 2nd level spell) or Rebuke Undead, which requires playing a Cleric.

If you want to handwave that, I'd recommend using a Sorcerer (to get the ability to cast Magic Missile) and make his other 1st level spell Ray of Enfeeblement, the strongest Core level 1 necromancy spell. Cause Fear, now that I think on it, if you want sheer power, since that stands a decent chance of wasting several actions from one of the beatsticks, which can be fairly effective at this level.

Past that, pick whatever cantrips you like; it doesn't matter much. Maybe Ghost Sound and Mage Hand, for creepy possibilities, or Acid Splash for mild combat applications.

If you wanted a Wizard Necromancer, more could be done.

I'd put stats in Charisma, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Strength. Don't count on using the dagger against anyone who isn't helpless.

Kylarra
2010-09-22, 07:36 PM
magic missile isn't on that caster's spell list, so it might be difficult.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-22, 07:37 PM
D&D Wiki has some... very serious quality control issues. I'd recommend against using it without a considerable double-checking of everything from there that gets used. I haven't read that Necromancer fully - the fact that it's well formatted and seems to be at the least proof-read is a good sign, but still, care is recommended.

Anyway, you're looking at a Wizard or Sorcerer if you want Magic Missile and Detect Magic, methinks; that Necromancer, and the pretty good Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror, both lack Magic Missile, as would a Cleric (who would make probably the best Necromancer at that level thanks to Rebuke Undead, but I'm just guessing there).

Between a Sorcerer and a Wizard, at level 2 and as a one-shot boss (i.e. one they'll be defeating and not fighting again), I recommend the Sorcerer just for the extra spell slots per day - you don't have Complete Mage on your approved list so Focused Specialist is out, plus Focused Specialist (Necromancer) would probably be a bad idea anyway. The primary advantages of the Wizard, then (being able to change his spells every day and being a spell level ahead 50% of the time) don't come into play here, so Sorcerer.

Ray of Enfeeblement's a great spell for any Sorcerer, plus its Necromancy, so that one's kinda obvious. You only get 2 spells known, so Magic Missile can be the other one I suppose... eh, considering that, Grease may be the better choice, since Ray of Enfeeblement and Magic Missile sort of overlap a bit. For cantrips, Detect Magic is obvious; other than that, probably Touch of Fatigue, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Resistance, and Prestidigitation's always fun.

For a feat, most of the best ones are not on your approved list. As it is... Improved Initiative is probably about the best you're going to get. For a second feat, if he's human... I dunno, Spell Focus (Conjuration) if you go with Grease, perhaps?

For skills, max Concentration and Spellcraft, then Knowledge (Arcana), and then Bluff if you have that many skillpoints. As a Sorcerer, you probably shouldn't have that many.

For items... a Cloak of Resistance is about the best thing I can think of.


For the familiar, I'd say you should get an ACF for it - if nothing else, maybe houserule that this guy can have Rebuke Undead as a Cleric instead of a Familiar. It'll help, perhaps.

big teej
2010-09-22, 07:40 PM
I see....

well, thankyou for your help
I'm sorry about the extremely limited list of resources (but don't worry! I have a shopping list) and as more books become available to me, less things will be out of bounds...


I still appreciate you all trying though.....

well, I'm off to make a necromancer.... sorta:smalltongue:

Eldariel
2010-09-22, 08:09 PM
I see....

well, thankyou for your help
I'm sorry about the extremely limited list of resources (but don't worry! I have a shopping list) and as more books become available to me, less things will be out of bounds...


I still appreciate you all trying though.....

well, I'm off to make a necromancer.... sorta:smalltongue:

Can't you just use the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)? Honestly, it has everything you need to make a scary Wizard necromancer and I'd wager it's a part of the Wiki too. Level 3 Necromancer with Skeletal Minion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants) and Enhanced Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants) could already pose a serious threat to the party without being overwhelming. There's 6 of the PCs so you need something to counterbalance that.

A level 3 Necro could have Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) active on multiple Undead creatures. He can't Create Undead yet under his own power but he can control a decent amount of them, especially accounting for his Skeletal Minion. This would tip the scales a bit in his favor. Level 2 also offers a bunch of more interesting Necromancy-spells like Blindness/Deafness, Scare (able to target two creatures) and Ghoul Touch (along with generally useful stuff like Mirror Image, False Life and so on; would suggest steering clear from Web/Glitterdust/Pyrotechnics tho as those may be too powerful). This in addition to Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Missile (of which he can fire two), Mage Armor (duh; he's dead before the fight starts without some manner of magical protection) and stuff like Grease, Magic Weapon (for his Skeletal Minion), Sleep/Color Spray and company offers him a decent offensive suite that can be quite dangerous. Detect Magic could also work.


2nd level Necromancer could also work, it seems. It has Summon Undead and they last for a decently long time. He also has Negative Energy Healing and the potential One-hit KO Channel Touch (average 13 lifedrain with an obscene 17+Int Save DC - that's equivalent to a level 7 spell and enough damage to one-hit KO most level 1 characters). It lacks Magic Missile, as noted, but as long as you aren't married to that spell it seems like an immensely potent option, as long as he doesn't just die before getting a turn.

The class has some really wonky features like 5+Int (x5) skill points, Channel Touch, Light Armor Prof without ability to cast in Light Armor without ACP, and lacking Create Undead on the spell list, but handwave things a bit and he should be fine.