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Thajocoth
2010-09-23, 11:19 AM
I plan to eventually insert into a game a shady dealer that has 6 very tempting consumables.

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The tempting part:
The 6 consumables each increase an ability score by 2 points until the player's next extended rest. (Typed bonus, so it doesn't stack.)

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First clue there's something wrong:
For each one, I mention some sort of feeling it gives. For example, the +1 Str Mod consumable makes the person feel powerful. The +1 Con Mod makes them feel numb.

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At the end of each encounter, a player effected by one of these consumables rolls an endurance, nature or heal check. If the character is not natural, nature is replaced with the appropriate skill for the player's race's origin. A Half-Elf could use either Arcana or Nature here. Each failure adds a cumulative -1 penalty to these checks. If a player is effected by multiple consumables, they roll multiple times, but the rolls share the same penalty (making two more addictive that one).

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When the day finally ends, they roll a final check with the penalty. DC:
Hard - They're fine and not addicted at all
Normal - The enter the "addiction" disease at Stage 0
Low - The enter the "addiction" disease at Stage 1
Failure - The enter the "addiction" disease at Stage 1 and add an extra -1 to their penalty

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The Disease:
Stage 0 - You really want some more. But you don't need it. No mechanical effects.
Stage 1 - You need more. Minor problem which goes away if you take more
Stage 2+ - The problems get bigger

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After the first day - A day spent without taking any more of the consumables decreases the penalty by 2. If this brings the penalty below 0, it becomes a bonus.

Taking more makes the negative effects of taking it go away. At the end of each encounter though, they roll the same way they did the first day, increasing their penalty to get rid of it. Once the penalty reaches:
-10 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 0, but taking 2 would
-20 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 1, but taking 2 would
-30 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 2, but taking 2 would
-40 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 3, but taking 2 would
-50 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 4, but taking 2 would
-60 - Taking more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 5, but taking 2 would
-70 - Taking 2 more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 0, but taking 3 would
-80 - Taking 2 more doesn't hide the effects of Stage 1, but taking 3 would
ect...

At the end of the day, when they roll, DC:
Hard - Get one stage better. From stage 0, this would cure the character.
Medium - Maintain
Low - Get one stage worse. If already at the worst stage, no effect.
Failure - Get one stage worse. If already at the worst stage, no effect... and add an extra -1 to their penalty

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Specifics for the consumables thus far:
+1 Str Mod
Feeling: Feel more powerful
Stage 1 - -2 Diplomacy
Stage 2 - -2 to mental skill checks
Stage 3 - -2 to mental ability score modifiers
Stage 4 - -2 to mental ability score modifiers; Paranoia and Delusions begin to set in. Allies count as enemies
Stage 5 - -2 to mental ability score modifiers; you're paranoid and delusional. Allies count as enemies and you're not done with an encounter while any enemies are still alive.

+1 Cha Mod
Feeling: Relaxed
Stage 1 - -1 penalty to Speed and Reflex
Stage 2 - -2 to Int/Dex/Wis skill checks; -1 penalty to Speed and Reflex
Stage 3 - -2 to Int/Dex/Wis mods; -1 penalty to Speed
Stage 4 - -2 to Int/Dex/Wis mods; -2 Endurance; -1 penalty to Speed
Stage 5 - -2 to Int/Dex/Wis/Con mods; -1 penalty to Speed

+1 Con Mod
Feeling: Numb
Stage 1 - -1 penalty to speed; treat Str as 2 points lower when calculating carrying capacity
Stage 2 - -2 Str mod; -1 penalty to speed; treat Str as 2 points lower when calculating carrying capacity
Stage 3 - -2 Str/Dex mods; -1 penalty to speed; treat Str as 2 points lower when calculating carrying capacity
Stage 4 - -2 Str/Dex mods; -1 penalty to speed; treat Str as 2 points lower when calculating carrying capacity; Chance to vomit (At the start of each turn, roll a save. On a failure, you spend a Minor Action to vomit.)
Stage 5 - -2 Str/Dex mods; -1 penalty to speed; treat Str as 2 points lower when calculating carrying capacity; Chance to vomit (At the start of each turn, roll a save. On a failure, you spend a Minor Action to vomit.); +1 Endurance

+1 Dex Mod
Feeling: Confident and Awake
Stage 1 - Reduced appetite (Endurance checks to keep from starving, but with all time lengths doubled)
Stage 2 - Reduced appetite (Endurance checks to keep from starving, but with all time lengths doubled); -2 Con
Stage 3 - Reduced appetite (Endurance checks to keep from starving, but with all time lengths doubled); -2 Con; Paranoia and Delusions begin to set in. Allies count as enemies
Stage 4 - Reduced appetite (Endurance checks to keep from starving, but with all time lengths doubled); -2 Con; Violent Paranoia (when interacting with anyone, roll a save not to roll initiative. You might get a lot of surprise rounds this way...)
Stage 5 - Reduced appetite (Endurance checks to keep from starving, but with all time lengths doubled); -2 Con; Violent Paranoia (when interacting with anyone, roll a save not to roll initiative. You might get a lot of surprise rounds this way...); +1 Speed

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Remove Affliction - Addiction is a disease like any other. The level of the disease is equal to the character's level + stage number. The penalty is NOT applied to rituals.

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Still thinking about what to do for Int and Wis... But tell me how these sound so far. Ideally, this becomes a plot hook where they either go after the shady dealer, or seek to protect him to protect their only source of these consumables.

TurtleKing
2010-09-23, 12:13 PM
There is a pdf that I paid for that might help with what you want. It is the Little Black Drug Book.

Thajocoth
2010-09-23, 12:29 PM
There is a pdf that I paid for that might help with what you want. It is the Little Black Drug Book.

For D&D 4e? A search says it's d20 modern. I play D&D 4e.

Mando Knight
2010-09-23, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't put it as a +2 to an ability score... that's kinda out of line with the rest of 4e. A +x bonus to rolls involving the ability score would be in line, though.

TurtleKing
2010-09-23, 02:10 PM
You could use the basic premise of it, and the overall material as template to better build what you need for 4e. You are the DM so you can tweak or rework it has needed to work for you.

Thajocoth
2010-09-23, 02:37 PM
I wouldn't put it as a +2 to an ability score... that's kinda out of line with the rest of 4e. A +x bonus to rolls involving the ability score would be in line, though.

I thought about that, but it didn't seem as fair given the potential penalties for use. The only differences, really, would be whether or not it effects defenses, carrying capacity, hp, surges, and a few specific things on specific class features/powers. Per usage per player, this is fairly minor while feeling like a lot more, making the penalties not feel as bad. It also makes continuing to use the consumables a more viable, weigh-able option. Just cast Remove Affliction any time you're taking too much.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-23, 02:39 PM
I like the idea. However, I do believe you're underestimating how often a character can make a hard DC skill check. Also, the penalties do not necessarily impact a character (except as fluff) until they reach stage 5.

For instance, a warlock may be interested in a +Con drug. However, a warlock is not really hampered by taking a penalty to Str or Dex, because it is plausible that none of his powers, nor defenses, nor trained skills rely on these scores.

My suggestion would be to double or triple the modifiers involved - both the good ones and the bad ones. This gives the drug a greater story impact, which strikes me as a good idea.

Thajocoth
2010-09-23, 02:53 PM
I like the idea. However, I do believe you're underestimating how often a character can make a hard DC skill check. Also, the penalties do not necessarily impact a character (except as fluff) until they reach stage 5.

For instance, a warlock may be interested in a +Con drug. However, a warlock is not really hampered by taking a penalty to Str or Dex, because it is plausible that none of his powers, nor defenses, nor trained skills rely on these scores.

My suggestion would be to double or triple the modifiers involved - both the good ones and the bad ones. This gives the drug a greater story impact, which strikes me as a good idea.

The only problem here is if one player chooses to continue to use a drug long-term, while another does not. With such a drastic difference in ability, things may become difficult to balance... Though it becomes quite a money sink for the character. (Cost = Price of an item of the character's level / 4 after the first one. First one's 50gp or free, haven't decided yet.)

Also, remember, if I cut both Dex and Int by 2, like I do with the +Cha one, that's -1 to Reflex, -1 Initiative, ect... Perhaps if I doubled the stat penalties, they could be severe enough while still be playable?

Mando Knight
2010-09-23, 03:04 PM
I thought about that, but it didn't seem as fair given the potential penalties for use.

Remember that penalties to ability scores don't really exist in 4e, either... apparently they wanted to keep the ability scores as "pure" as possible this time around, so they wouldn't have to deal with Shivering Touch or similar cheese. I would really just stick to bonuses to rolls related to the ability.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-23, 03:14 PM
Though it becomes quite a money sink for the character.
That just adds to the fun, if a character decides he'll steal to feed his addiction.

Did you mean (price of charlevel item) / 4, or price of (charlevel / 4) item?


Also, remember, if I cut both Dex and Int by 2, like I do with the +Cha one, that's -1 to Reflex, -1 Initiative, ect...
Yes, but there isn't much to the "etcetera" here. The Cha drug has the nastiest penalties of the bunch, but they're still a net positive:

A +1 to will balances out a -1 to reflex
A +1 to attack and damage really overshadows a -1 to initiative
A +1 to skills you're good at and use a lot is more than a match for a -1 to skills you probably didn't use all that often.


For comparison, Str boost basically gives only a -1 to will defense for many melee characters who simply don't care for mental stats or mental skills. Well, until you get to stage 5 and start killing your friends, that is.


Perhaps if I doubled the stat penalties, they could be severe enough while still be playable?
I think they would be, yes.

The question is, how big a plot point do you want the drugs to be. Characters get +1 bonuses all the time (heck, the bonus for flanking or concealment is bigger than that), so if you want to impress players with a cool plot point, aim way higher. Me, I would easily hand out +5 bonuses for a short while followed by equally nasty penalties, because this makes the "WHOA" factor all the bigger for the players.

Remember that time when you got a +1 to hit because of somebody-or-other's blessing or whatever it was? Now remember that time when you got a +5 Potion of Atlas Strength from Gandalf himself and sliced a dragon in half? Yeah, I thought so :smallcool:

Thajocoth
2010-09-23, 03:20 PM
That just adds to the fun, if a character decides he'll steal to feed his addiction.

Did you mean (price of charlevel item) / 4, or price of (charlevel / 4) item?


Yes, but there isn't much to the "etcetera" here. The Cha drug has the nastiest penalties of the bunch, but they're still a net positive:

A +1 to will balances out a -1 to reflex
A +1 to attack and damage really overshadows a -1 to initiative
A +1 to skills you're good at and use a lot is more than a match for a -1 to skills you probably didn't use all that often.


For comparison, Str boost basically gives only a -1 to will defense for many melee characters who simply don't care for mental stats or mental skills. Well, until you get to stage 5 and start killing your friends, that is.


I think they would be, yes.

The question is, how big a plot point do you want the drugs to be. Characters get +1 bonuses all the time (heck, the bonus for flanking or concealment is bigger than that), so if you want to impress players with a cool plot point, aim way higher. Me, I would easily hand out +5 bonuses for a short while followed by equally nasty penalties, because this makes the "WHOA" factor all the bigger for the players.

Remember that time when you got a +1 to hit because of somebody-or-other's blessing or whatever it was? Now remember that time when you got a +5 Potion of Atlas Strength from Gandalf himself and sliced a dragon in half? Yeah, I thought so :smallcool:

(price of charlevel item) / 4

They don't continue to gain the benefits while also suffering from the withdrawal (unless they rack up a huge roll penalty). So they don't have the +1 to Will at the same time that they have the -1 to Reflex. I could have something like... If you're not addicted, it's +3 to the modifier, and if you are it's only +1... That way, continual use doesn't get too huge a bonus, but it seems more awesome at first. Then -2 to the modifier for the penalties... Or -1 per stage (So stage 5 is -5, but it takes a while to get there.)

Taking more of a drug temporarily allows you to ignore the effects of it's addiction. If you fail the end-of-encounter skill checks a lot, you can eventually see the two together, but you can take twice as much to negate the penalties. So you don't wind up attacking your friends with that bonus...

I wrote the penalties after skimming some stuff online about the long-term side effects of steroids, speed, pot and anesthetics. Being fantasy, these are not the same exact drugs, and I'm kinda stumped as to what to look up for Wis or Int... My first thought for Int was Ginkgo Biloba, as Int is learned, memorized stuff, though I couldn't really find too much as far as negative side effects go.