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WarKitty
2010-09-23, 02:41 PM
Is there any good way to optimize save DC's on spells? I am aware of Spell Focus but rather unimpressed with it.

Edit: if there's some sort of guide out here I'd be grateful for the link.

Telonius
2010-09-23, 02:51 PM
Usually, the easiest way to increase the DC is to increase your relevant stat. Heighten Spell is a way to do it. Not necessarily the best way, since it means a lower level spell will be occupying a higher-than-usual level slot.

Items: Bead of Karma (DMG), Orange Ioun stone (DMG), Ring of Arcane Might (SpC)

dextercorvia
2010-09-23, 02:55 PM
There are a number of feats that do it by one -- but that is rather underwhelming.

WarKitty
2010-09-23, 03:34 PM
Well, I've already got a +7 to wisdom at level 4. Not sure how much more I can increase that, aside from items.

gallagher
2010-09-23, 03:41 PM
you have a +7 at level four you say.... without items?

am i missing something here? i am on low sleep, but at level four you get one bonus point, you can start with an 18, and choose a race that will give an extra +2... that still only comes out to a +5

Keld Denar
2010-09-23, 03:42 PM
There are a few tricks. You could take Snowcasting, (Greater) Spell Focus: Cold, and Draconic Aura: Energy somethingsomethingsomething. (Greater) Spell Focus: Cold is the same a Spell Focus, but it stacks, and it applies to all of your spells thanks to Snowcasting. Since all of your spells have the [Cold] descriptor, they are all intensified by the Draconic Aura and get another +4 save DC.

If you are casting enchantments or some illusions, a Veil of Alure (MIC) can help a small amount. Being a vanillia Gnome (PHBI) increases your Illusion DCs by another point.

Then there are really DIRTY tricks like Circle Casting (Red Wizard) or Taint (Tainted Scholar), but those are generally considered outside the realm of playability.

Another trick is to have another party member (or cohort) focus on save debuffing. There are lots of things to debuff saves, from Hexblade's Dark Companion (PHBII) and Hex (CWarrior) to Pally of Tyranny's or Blackguard's Aura of Dispair (UA), to a binder with Foculur's Aura of Sadness (ToMagic), to optimized demoralization (up to -6 for 3 stacks), and the bardic feat Doomspeak (Champions of Ruin). Having an ally give a foe a -10 on all saves is the same as adding 20 points to your casting stat, in terms of DCs, and -10 isn't even that hard to reach.

Ernir
2010-09-23, 03:45 PM
Are you an anthropomorphic Bat or something?

Anyway, there are items and such that help in specific situations. What are you doing right now, and what are you trying to accomplish?

There's also always Tainted Scholar (HoH), but that's overkill.


Items: Bead of Karma (DMG), Orange Ioun stone (DMG), Ring of Arcane Might (SpC)

Those are for caster levels, not save DCs.

WarKitty
2010-09-23, 03:45 PM
you have a +7 at level four you say.... without items?

am i missing something here? i am on low sleep, but at level four you get one bonus point, you can start with an 18, and choose a race that will give an extra +2... that still only comes out to a +5

Anthropomorphic bat. +6 bonus. Rolled a 17.

Most of my spells are the battlefield control reflex save types. Unfortunately we're low on casters so I'm not likely to get debuffs.

Person_Man
2010-09-23, 03:50 PM
You can debuff most Saves via a wide array of spells and class abilities. Fear effects are the most obvious, but there are tons.

Also, just choosing the right type of spell for the given type of enemy goes a very long way. Big creatures have lower Reflex and higher Fort Saves, little creatures have higher Reflex and lower Fort Saves, divine casters have high Will Saves, animals and magical beasts have poor Will Saves, and so on.

Keld Denar
2010-09-23, 03:51 PM
And dire animals? They just laugh at your spells and eat your face off. Yay all good saves!

WarKitty
2010-09-23, 04:09 PM
PF/3.5 game, so keep in mind my wild shape is not good. Here's our party:

Me (druid)
Wolf companion
Ranger with archery style - switch-hitter with quickdraw
Cheetah companion
Alchemist, focuses on making and throwing bombs
Fighter, melee focused
Sorcerer/fighter going for spellsword, also melee but uses ranged spells
Barbarian, whines if not allowed into melee
Rogue, new player but likes to sneak attack

My job is to buff up the melee fighters and run crowd control.

Shenanigans
2010-09-23, 04:11 PM
It's already being discussed in another thread, and probably not what you're looking for, but Vow of Non-Violence-->Vow of Peace will up save DC's as well

Keld Denar
2010-09-23, 04:16 PM
See if you can get the Fighter/Sorcerer to take Ray of Clumsiness. Its 1d6 + 1/2 CL penalty to Dex, max +5 (SpC). He can store it in a spell storing weapon, or channel it with Spellsword's Channel Spell feature, or straight up cast it. The Dex penalty makes foes EASIER for him to hit, and easier for you to target with Ref saves.

Just a thought off the top of my head. Not a whole lot else you can do beyond what you are doing. Sorry...