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Morquard
2010-09-23, 11:53 PM
Hi

I know that in 3.5 the Monks are regarded as one of the worse classes around.
1) Did that change in PF, are they now able to compete?

2) Also is there a reason why a Monk would use a monk-weapon? It seems to me that past level 4 the unarmed strike does more damage than any of the weapons.

3) And one thing about Flurry of Blows, do the extra attacks count as off-hand attacks, so he either has to use a double weapon, or a second weapon in the offhand, or do them unarmed if he only has a main hand weapon?

Now about Witches:
4) Under Witch's Familiar it says: "At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar"
Does that mean if the Witch gets her 5th level (and access to 3rd level spells), she now gets two new 1st level, two new 2nd level and two new 3rd level spells? Or does that mean she gets two new spells that she can use however she wants, like learn two 3rd level spells, or one 2nd and one 3rd level spell?

5) I'm kinda lost on what would be good low level feats for witches, any suggestions?

Thanks

Benly
2010-09-24, 12:12 AM
Hi

I know that in 3.5 the Monks are regarded as one of the worse classes around.
1) Did that change in PF, are they now able to compete?

2) Also is there a reason why a Monk would use a monk-weapon? It seems to me that past level 4 the unarmed strike does more damage than any of the weapons.

3) And one thing about Flurry of Blows, do the extra attacks count as off-hand attacks, so he either has to use a double weapon, or a second weapon in the offhand, or do them unarmed if he only has a main hand weapon?

Now about Witches:
4) Under Witch's Familiar it says: "At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar"
Does that mean if the Witch gets her 5th level (and access to 3rd level spells), she now gets two new 1st level, two new 2nd level and two new 3rd level spells? Or does that mean she gets two new spells that she can use however she wants, like learn two 3rd level spells, or one 2nd and one 3rd level spell?

5) I'm kinda lost on what would be good low level feats for witches, any suggestions?

Thanks

1) Monks are better than they used to be, but some of their major problems weren't really fixed (notably, the counter-synergy between "a bunch of movement bonuses" and "your big damage mechanic requires standing still and full-attacking"). We houseruled in a ki pounce ability which helps some so far.
2) To use a magic weapon or to hit something you don't want to hit barehanded.
3) I don't believe they count as offhand attacks, but I'm not sure.
4) Two spells total, allocated however you like.
5) I'm personally fond of Extra Hex at low levels, but it's a little obvious.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-24, 12:16 AM
Throwing stars may suck, but they are the only ranged weapon a monk has unless he gets his fists enchanted thusly. The Kukri has a far higher crit range and there are some nice effects that can happen on crits. Also, some provide bonuses to certain manoeuvres. Getting a weapon enchanted is, I think, cheaper then getting Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted and it doesn't take up the same slot.
Finally, it can look cool.

Morquard
2010-09-24, 03:56 AM
Ok, obviously shurikeen have a place in any monks armory for being ranged, but I was talking about melee weapons, sorry for not making that clear.

Crit range may be a factor, but later in the game a 19-20 crit range with a 1d6 or 1d8 weapon is still worse than a 20-20 range on a fist that does 1d10 or 2d6 damage.

Also if additional flurry attacks aren't offhand then the Quarterstaff is one of the worst Monk weapons. 1d6 is basic on almost all others of them too, but most have trip or disarm as option too. (Unless i'm missing something again)
I know monks don't have any "off hand" when it comes to determing offhand penalties and such, with their unarmed strike, but that's just unarmed it doesn't say he can swing the main hand sword 10 times a round.

Also I did read Treantmonk's guide on d20pfsrd.com, and it seems he focuses alot on grappling foes with the feats he recoomends and such stuff.
Why? I just don't get it. You loose the ability to flurry attack and can only make a single unarmed strike against the target each round, pretty much forfeiting your greatest monk ability.
I could understand using disarm or trip as those can be used as one of the flurry attacks, but grapple seems like the worst of the combat manouvers.

Malbordeus
2010-09-24, 04:05 AM
being an elf gives you some better options as a monk, namely Longbows, but yeah...

+1 on monk weapons being awsome for special attacks, Kama allow trips, Sai give bonuses on disarm, Nunchucks are awsome. quaterstaffs are.... yeeeeah... only thing I can think of with quaterstaffs is if your fighting a creature with non overridable DR and gripping it in two hands. do saigham do anything other than allow a monk to deal piercing damage? i dont think so...

Morquard
2010-09-24, 04:12 AM
I don't think elfs can use the longbow as part of a flurry of blows. (Unless they're Zen Archer but then they get bow proficiency no matter of race)

Malbordeus
2010-09-24, 04:14 AM
of course not with flurry, but the ability to shoot people and count as armed for purposes of flanking and aoo's is handy.

Violet Octopus
2010-09-24, 05:22 AM
Throwing stars may suck, but they are the only ranged weapon a monk has unless he gets his fists enchanted thusly. The Kukri has a far higher crit range and there are some nice effects that can happen on crits. Also, some provide bonuses to certain manoeuvres. Getting a weapon enchanted is, I think, cheaper then getting Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted and it doesn't take up the same slot.
Finally, it can look cool.
Enchanting your fists with Throwing? How have I not heard of this before?

Gnaeus
2010-09-24, 05:42 AM
5) I'm kinda lost on what would be good low level feats for witches, any suggestions?


Aside from Extra Hex (previously mentioned), I would look at Combat Casting (better in PF than in 3.5), Improved Initiative, and a crafting feat (either Wands or Wondrous Items).

Ravens_cry
2010-09-25, 07:26 AM
Enchanting your fists with Throwing? How have I not heard of this before?
Yes, you too can have limbs like Dhalsim. Though what happens if you don't add returning is rather squicky to contemplate. Some would want it that way though because they rule the flavour text means you throw your whole body.
Hey, free movement is free movement.

Greenish
2010-09-25, 07:45 AM
Crit range may be a factor, but later in the game a 19-20 crit range with a 1d6 or 1d8 weapon is still worse than a 20-20 range on a fist that does 1d10 or 2d6 damage.Depends on your other sources of damage (strength, weapon enchants, Power Attack and the like).

Besides, kukri (though not a monk weapon in PF either, I'm pretty certain) has crit range of 18-20, or 15-20 with Improved Critical or Keen. Monk weapons continue to suck.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-25, 08:17 AM
Depends on your other sources of damage (strength, weapon enchants, Power Attack and the like).

Besides, kukri (though not a monk weapon in PF either, I'm pretty certain) has crit range of 18-20, or 15-20 with Improved Critical or Keen. Monk weapons continue to suck.
*checks* Damn, I thought they were. My mistake.

Frozen_Feet
2010-09-25, 08:31 AM
If I'm right, a Monk can have weapons in his hands and still use unarmed strikes (with his elbows, or feet or whatever) because unarmed strikes can be done with any part of the body. I think there are some weapon enhancements that give you some benefit by just having them (defensive?).

Greenish
2010-09-25, 08:36 AM
*checks* Damn, I thought they were. My mistake.There's a theme that runs through monk weapons (aside from the ones that require EWP, and even in many of those): they have poor base damage and 20/x2 crit.

If I'm right, a Monk can have weapons in his hands and still use unarmed strikes (with his elbows, or feet or whatever) because unarmed strikes can be done with any part of the body. I think there are some weapon enhancements that give you some benefit by just having them (defensive?).Defending and Warning (MIC) come to mind.

[Edit]: Dancing would be as amusing as Throwing, if not more.