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Divinech
2010-09-26, 05:46 AM
Greetings,

so I play a rogue with a race that has normal vision (no lowlight vision or darkvision). Its a rogue/swashbuckler combination, current level is 3. And I want to make him see in normal darkness.

I know there are a lot of classes (e.g. warlock) or prestige classes (e.g. shadowdancer) that will grant me the ability to see in the dark. But I don't want to get any dips. So I guess I must rely on magic items or feats. And since my 6th and 9th feat is already planned, only magic items are a viable option.

We all know of the 12.000 gp item that grants darkvision 24/7, but thats by far too costly. Scrolls of darkvision/wand of darkvision is an option, but I don't have much gold atm, so I'd rather get an item that doesn't have charges. And I don't like the permancy solution, since it can be removed by dispel magic.
After looking through the MIC, I found the Scout's Headband which grants me 3 h darkvision per day for a few thousand gold. So far this is the best item I found. But is there a cheaper/better one?
I doesn't have to be darkvision, blindsense/blindsight/tremorsense or other is fine by me too. But I can't find other stuff. Range isn't that improtant too, 10 ft would suffice.
(I know I could ask my GM for a custom made item, but I'd rather rely on what is already printed.)

So what do you guys and gals think about it? Are there better and/or cheaper items/ways to get the ability to see in normal darkness?

HunterOfJello
2010-09-26, 05:54 AM
If you're an Elf then the feat Otherwordly would change your creature type to Outsider (native), give you Darkvision and +2 Diplomacy.

Shape Soulmeld (Basilisk Mask) will give you a soulmeld that you can shape at the beginning of the day to have Low-Light Vision all day. If you find a way to gain any essentia (through a feat or taking a level of an incarnum class, you can add essentia to the bask to gain darkvision.)

One of the dragon magazines had a feat called Orc Blooded which gave Darkvision and changed your facored class to barbarian. It must be taken at level 1 though.

~
From the MiC:

Mask of the Tiger gives Track and Low-Light vision for 4000gp.

Scout's Headband is probably your best bet. It costs 3400gp and has 3 charges per day. Using 1 charge gives you Darkvision for 1 hour so you get Darkvision for 3 hours per day spread out however you like.


The Blindhelm gives Tremorsense all day but costs 15000gp. Boots of Tremorsense give the ability for 5 rounds up to 3 times per day for a whopping 5000gp.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-26, 06:12 AM
Scout's Headband, MIC, 3,400 gp, has three charges/day, for one charge you get Darkvision 60 ft. for 1 hour. It grants passive bonuses to Listen/Spot and you can spend more charges for a stronger effect, but it's probably what you're looking for.

Ideally you'll want to get a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from Tome of Magic. For 22,000 gp it gives you the Dark Creature template from that same book. That gives Darkvision 60 ft., Low-Light Vision, Hide in Plain Sight (Ex), +10 ft. movement, Cold Resist 10, +8 Hide, and +6 Move Silently.

Siegel
2010-09-26, 06:26 AM
Carry a torch

Yuki Akuma
2010-09-26, 06:34 AM
Get a mage to cast Darkvision on you.

Then get him to cast Permanency on you.

Curmudgeon
2010-09-26, 06:44 AM
Get a mage to cast Darkvision on you.

Then get him to cast Permanency on you. You need to read the Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm) spell description.

Yuki Akuma
2010-09-26, 06:56 AM
You need to read the Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm) spell description.

...Revision: UMD a scroll of Permanency on yourself.

Divinech
2010-09-26, 08:53 AM
First, thanks everyone for your replies :)


If you're an Elf then the feat Otherwordly would change your creature type to Outsider (native), give you Darkvision and +2 Diplomacy.

Shape Soulmeld (Basilisk Mask) will give you a soulmeld that you can shape at the beginning of the day to have Low-Light Vision all day. If you find a way to gain any essentia (through a feat or taking a level of an incarnum class, you can add essentia to the bask to gain darkvision.)

One of the dragon magazines had a feat called Orc Blooded which gave Darkvision and changed your facored class to barbarian. It must be taken at level 1 though.

~
From the MiC:

Mask of the Tiger gives Track and Low-Light vision for 4000gp.

Scout's Headband is probably your best bet. It costs 3400gp and has 3 charges per day. Using 1 charge gives you Darkvision for 1 hour so you get Darkvision for 3 hours per day spread out however you like.


The Blindhelm gives Tremorsense all day but costs 15000gp. Boots of Tremorsense give the ability for 5 rounds up to 3 times per day for a whopping 5000gp.
I guess Scout's Headbeand is the best item I can get. Thanks for all the additional item though. I'd love to get them, but sadly my purse doesn't allow it...



Carry a torch
And be seen by everyone, because I don't even have some minor concealment. Brilliant plan.


Get a mage to cast Darkvision on you.

Then get him to cast Permanency on you.
I somehow fear dispel magic. I doubt my DM would just strip it from me, but I couldn't sleep properly, knowing that it could happen...

Zaq
2010-09-26, 11:17 AM
Regarding Permanency... talk to your GM. Explain how you think that it's a good solution, but you're wary of the fact that an innocent Dispel Magic can ruin your investment. Ask him for a houserule that says that Dispel only suppresses Permanencied effects for [1d4 rounds / 10 minutes / until the next day; pick one], so that it actually becomes a viable choice instead of an enormous Dispel-shaped bullseye.

Leon
2010-09-26, 11:28 AM
Eat more carrots. Magic infused carrots from the Underdark

awa
2010-09-26, 11:34 AM
permanency as un dispel-able would be extremely strong much better than magic items and exponentially better than grafts. for 9000 the helm of the hunter gives you far shot bonuses to spot and once a day dark vision and low light vision for 4 hours.

Yuki Akuma
2010-09-26, 11:47 AM
Make permanency only dispellable by casters with higher caster levels, then.

That way you need to replace it whenever you level up, and a good scroll would cost a ton, but you're not screwed over by every fifth-level spellcaster.

UserClone
2010-09-26, 11:54 AM
Is there a particular reason you strongly dislike dips?

Because a dip in Warlock is insanely helpful for the ranged touch sneak attacks, and See the Unseen allows you to see invisible as well. For extra awesomesauce, take 2 levels for Spiderwalking and detect magic to help you find magical traps.



Whatever you choose to do, don't forget to buy a Ring of the Darkhidden, to make you permanently invisible to darkvision, and thus unable to be seen if the lights are off. Think of it like DareDevil breaking out all the lights in the room. :smallamused:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-26, 12:42 PM
A pretty solid build goes Rogue 4/ Warlock 1/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10, applying AT spellcasting to Warlock. You'll need to use the feat Spell Hand in Complete Arcane to qualify, or use Whisper Gnome, but otherwise it's extremely solid. Replace Rogue with Spellthief and get Master Spellthief and you won't even need Practiced Spellcaster for anything.

Boren
2010-09-26, 07:59 PM
Well....Hmmm...the best way would be to take the eyes of the abyss feat from FCI 60ft dark-vision and +2 to search and spot checks only down side is that you have to have taken any one other heritor feat. But now the good news for the price of one 8th level spell Embrace the dark Chaos you can swap your 1st level feat and bingo you qualify. :smallcool:

Darrin
2010-09-26, 10:26 PM
Planar Touchstone feat (requires 8 ranks of Knowledge: the Planes) can be linked to the Blinding Tower. The base ability gives you Darkvision 60' at the expense of only one feat.

You could also link to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, and pick up the domain power of the Baator domain (Spell Compendium, planar domain). This allows you to see perfectly in darkness or deeper darkness (out to your normal vision limits in daylight). Again, only costs one feat. (However, this might be a bit of a rules stretch... planar domains are supposed to count as two regular domains.)

Divinech
2010-09-27, 01:42 AM
Regarding Permanency... talk to your GM. Explain how you think that it's a good solution, but you're wary of the fact that an innocent Dispel Magic can ruin your investment. Ask him for a houserule that says that Dispel only suppresses Permanencied effects for [1d4 rounds / 10 minutes / until the next day; pick one], so that it actually becomes a viable choice instead of an enormous Dispel-shaped bullseye.
I think that would make permanency too powerful. Another problem with permanency is that my UMD isn't high enough to use it as a scroll. And I just saw permanency scrolls are extremely expensive, because the XP cost must be paid by the creator...


Eat more carrots. Magic infused carrots from the Underdark
Yum. I actually laughed out loud when I read your comment...


Is there a particular reason you strongly dislike dips?

Because a dip in Warlock is insanely helpful for the ranged touch sneak attacks, and See the Unseen allows you to see invisible as well. For extra awesomesauce, take 2 levels for Spiderwalking and detect magic to help you find magical traps.



Whatever you choose to do, don't forget to buy a Ring of the Darkhidden, to make you permanently invisible to darkvision, and thus unable to be seen if the lights are off. Think of it like DareDevil breaking out all the lights in the room. :smallamused:
I'd have a hard time explaining where that fey or fiendish heritage for a warlock level would come from. And in any case it would sound very far fetched. And I simply don't like dips...
And I already planned on getting that ring :)


A pretty solid build goes Rogue 4/ Warlock 1/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10, applying AT spellcasting to Warlock. You'll need to use the feat Spell Hand in Complete Arcane to qualify, or use Whisper Gnome, but otherwise it's extremely solid. Replace Rogue with Spellthief and get Master Spellthief and you won't even need Practiced Spellcaster for anything.
Um, and it would be an entirely different character. I want to play a changeling rogue/swashbuckler. So there isn't much room left for another race or class...


Well....Hmmm...the best way would be to take the eyes of the abyss feat from FCI 60ft dark-vision and +2 to search and spot checks only down side is that you have to have taken any one other heritor feat. But now the good news for the price of one 8th level spell Embrace the dark Chaos you can swap your 1st level feat and bingo you qualify. :smallcool:
As I said all my feats are spent up to level 9. So sadly that isn't an option...


Planar Touchstone feat (requires 8 ranks of Knowledge: the Planes) can be linked to the Blinding Tower. The base ability gives you Darkvision 60' at the expense of only one feat.

You could also link to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, and pick up the domain power of the Baator domain (Spell Compendium, planar domain). This allows you to see perfectly in darkness or deeper darkness (out to your normal vision limits in daylight). Again, only costs one feat. (However, this might be a bit of a rules stretch... planar domains are supposed to count as two regular domains.)
Never heard about anything you tell me there... Which book is that from? And how can a non-cleric get domains?

Greenish
2010-09-27, 02:58 AM
I'd have a hard time explaining where that fey or fiendish heritage for a warlock level would come from.Toss a coin: heads, it's from the father's side, tails and it's from the mother's side. :smallamused:

Never heard about anything you tell me there... Which book is that from? And how can a non-cleric get domains?Planar Handbook, and though certain PrCs grant domains to non-clerics, what he's referring to is a feat that allows you to gain the granted power of one of the domains.

Prime32
2010-09-27, 04:57 AM
Blindfold of True Darkness?

...I forget exactly what it does.

Greenish
2010-09-27, 05:11 AM
Blindfold of True Darkness?

...I forget exactly what it does.On the top of my head, it's blindsight 30', no sight beyond that range.