The Dead Language. (Or How I Stopped Worrying And Learned To Love Latin.)

[Adumbration]

So, being a student of veterinary medicine (for about a month now), my latin studies have begun. Or, more accurately, we're learning the names of the bones of common animals and on the side we get some grammar.

Are there any knowers of the dead language here on the playground? Any tips or hints to learning it? I just started reading up on some of the declinations, but is there a good way to tell which word belongs to which? It's not exactly clear on my sources (mostly wikipedia).

Also, just feel free to use this for discussion about latin in general. I know I'll be back later also to pester you with even more stupid questions on the subject - that is, if there is anyone to answer. :smalltongue:

[WarKitty]

3rd-semester student of Latin here. That's the level where they hand you a passage from Cicero and tell you to write a book report on it.

As far as which word belongs to what, there really is no easy way if you're only given a single form of the word. You have to remove the endings from the word and look up the root.

[Icewalker]

You can never really manage language studies to any real degree by assorted piecemeal sources like Wikipedia, you'll want to find a textbook or the like if you want to learn more of it. I should do that with Latin...and keep doing that with Italian...

By the way, your medico della peste avatar is excellent, sir.

[LCR]

If you require as much Latin as medical students (I suspect you do), I'd stop worrying about declinations. Everything you'll ever need is the genitive singular and plural, for example arteria pulmonalis/arteriae pulmonales.
If you're interested in the language proper, start with a something as easy as a school book and ease into Caesar. After that, try Cicero and eventually, Ovid.

[Killer Angel]

What LCR said.
Anyway, probably a good portion of the italian playgrounders studied latin at school, so you can try PMing some of us (including me).
But don't expect too much... :smalltongue:

[Adumbration]

You can never really manage language studies to any real degree by assorted piecemeal sources like Wikipedia, you'll want to find a textbook or the like if you want to learn more of it. I should do that with Latin...and keep doing that with Italian...

By the way, your medico della peste avatar is excellent, sir.

Why, thank you. :smalltongue:

Jeah, I probably won't need it more than common medical students, but I'm pretty good at languages, so I figure it wouldn't go to waste if I actually learned me some latin.

That's a relief on the declinations. I've been reading up on the notes that our teacher will use tomorrow on his class, and they're pretty much on the subject, which had me worried. But I guess he's just being thorough - I'll find out tomorrow.

[Syka]

I'm a Classicist by training (sweet! I can say that!). I did Ancient Languages (specifically Latin and Greek) for my undergraduate degree, with four years of Latin in high school before that.

Biggest tip: Post-it notes on a wall are your friend. Songs are your friend.

My high school Latin teacher would sing the endings for verb conjugations, for instance. It sticks in your mind! I also set up a Greek Wall (and Wall2 and Door) in my undergrad. Above my computer was the alphabet, by my closet was some vocab, and my door had various verb tenses. I still have pictures.

The good thing about Latin and Ancient Greek is that you can get a good knowledge of it just from reading. You don't have to worry about slang, etc.

Although...there are differences in pronunciation. There is Chuch (Ecclesiastical) Latin and Classical Latin. Written, it's the same, but Ecclesiastical Latin has a more "modern" pronunciation. Many Classicists I know hated on The Passion of the Christ for that reason. I mean...you probably shouldn't be using Church Latin if the version hasn't even come in to being yet, chronistically at least. :smallwink:

[Dogmantra]

I don't care how good you are at Latin, get the Minimus books.

No, I'm not biased because the artist was my Latin teacher for four years, what are you talking about? :smalltongue:

[Stadge]

It's been a while since I looked at any Latin, though I used to be able to read it pretty well, but I spent the last year getting a grounding in Old English and Old Norse. I'm not really a linguist, and to be perfectly honest I've had great trouble learning what I have so far of these two languages, but what I can say is that, like others have said, some form of text book would be a good idea, and aside from that, just keep at it. Going over stuff an awful lot really helped me.

Of course, that could just be me and others may well have better advice. Good luck with it though :smallsmile:

[nihilism]

i have been studying latin using wellock which seems pretty good.

[ZombieRockStar]

Not a current student, but I plan to eventually take some classes in Koine Greek and Classical Hebrew. I don't technically need them for my degree, but I do if I want to go on to a doctoral degree, so I want to keep my options open and I have this thing about always wanting to know everything possible about a given subject, including the original languages.

Plus, my prof. carries around and reads from his book entirely in the original Greek. I want to be that badass someday. :smallamused:

I feel kinda apprehensive, though. I never really took to learning French all that well and if I couldn't learn that when I was a kid, how much harder is learning a whole new language going to be as an adult? (Though I understand Hebrew isn't all that hard; it's Greek that worries me)


Although...there are differences in pronunciation. There is Chuch (Ecclesiastical) Latin and Classical Latin. Written, it's the same, but Ecclesiastical Latin has a more "modern" pronunciation. Many Classicists I know hated on The Passion of the Christ for that reason. I mean...you probably shouldn't be using Church Latin if the version hasn't even come in to being yet, chronistically at least. :smallwink:

:smallconfused: I never saw the movie, but why would there be any Latin in it? The language of the eastern half of the empire at that time was Koine Greek, which was also the lingua franca and thus would've been used by all the Roman officials, and the Jewish people spoke Aramaic (which I thought the movie was in).

[Thufir]

I've sung in latin. I know what some of the words mean.

[Dubious Pie]

I am sad because my high school ruled that Latin was not a foreign language for the requirements of graduation. They only have French and Russian, neither of which are remotely useful.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I took Latin in school up until this year. And ooh, you're a veterinary student? What's it like!

[Syka]

ZRS, there were bits in Latin. No Greek last I heard. I've only seen clips, but they had Latin and made me cringe. Wiki has it as being in Aramaic, Latin, and Hebrew.


Also, Greek actually isn't that horrendous. It's harder than Latin to learn, but easier to translate. For one, it as articles like "the" which Latin forgot to include altogether. Bah. Ancient Greek tends (not always, but tends) to be less ambiguous in real texts than Latin. By less ambiguous, I mean figuring out what words fulfill what parts of the sentence is far easier. I had a much easier time with Greek than I did with Latin, that's for sure.

EDIT: Also, for those of you who read Latin, you have to get a hold of some Catullus if you haven't yet. He's absolutely hysterical. :)

[CoffeeIncluded]

EDIT: Also, for those of you who read Latin, you have to get a hold of some Catullus if you haven't yet. He's absolutely hysterical. :)

And vulgar. If I posted...Quite a few, actually, here, I'd get banned. :smalltongue: (Well, maybe not banned, but...)

[Zain]

I am sad because my high school ruled that Latin was not a foreign language for the requirements of graduation. They only have French and Russian, neither of which are remotely useful.

French can be useful in parts of the world and here in Canada, I think you need it to get a job with the federal government. :smallannoyed:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

French can be useful in parts of the world and here in Canada, I think you need it to get a job with the federal government. :smallannoyed:

You do. No problem, just spend a coupla years studying in Montreal. That should do the trick.

[Adumbration]

I took Latin in school up until this year. And ooh, you're a veterinary student? What's it like!

Well, so far we've had three courses - histology, cellular metabolism and osteology. We finished histology yesterday with an exam, and started osteology (I think I passed the test, by the way). The days are usually slightly shorter than in highschool (for example, I've got 12-17 today), but sometimes we've got a full day.

The first, second and third year should go in a similar manner, plus dissections and obductions, but we start clinical duties on the 4th or 5th year - can't remember which. We've got a voluntary horse foal watch course we can take to get some touch in the subject before that.

6th year will be back to school, learning hygiene stuff and food-related things.

Overall, it's fun and interesting. Of course, the lessons are occasionally boring as hell, particularly now that we're going through the theoretical stuff, but people are all really nice.

Also, parties. Since I started, there hasn't been a week without some kind of party. :smallbiggrin: Today we have the infamous Foalings, where we travel all over the city, go through checkpoints of 2nd year students in a desperate ploy to bribe them with booze to ease the tasks they'll give us.

Okay, that was longwinded. Back to latin. :smalltongue:


On the subject of books, we've got one in PDF form. I haven't given it much more than a cursory glance, but it's pretty much just a reference book on names of... well, every single organ, bone, tissue or tendon an animal can have. Useful, I guess. It's called Nomina Anatomica Veterinary 5th Edition.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

My high school Latin teacher would sing the endings for verb conjugations, for instance. It sticks in your mind!

To this day, the "Sum, es, est, sumus, estis, sunt," chant rings in my ears whenever I hear a similar enough rhythm.

[rakkoon]

I have studied Latin for six years just to be able to sing along with
o fortuna (http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/s/O+Fortuna/PXF3q) and omnia sol temperat (http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/s/Omnia+Sol+Temperat/22UKck). One needs no further reason.

[Kneenibble]

ut latine sciat liber Rotaclaustricus optimus (ut opinor).

quoque,
non mortua lingua quis aeterne sita potis,
atque aetatibus novis anglia eadem moriatur.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

ut latine sciat liber Rotaclaustricus optimus (ut opinor).

quoque,
non mortua lingua quis aeterne sita potis,
atque aetatibus novis anglia eadem moriatur.
essum nonullus brassica
essum essum nonullus brassica
essum nonullus brassica
essum essum nonullus brassica
essum nonullus brassica
essum essum nonullus brassica
essum nonullus brassica
essum essum nonullus brassica

uleos operor is ut vos b quod q is
uleos operor is ut vos b quod q is

[Delwugor]

I'm a Classicist by training (sweet! I can say that!). I did Ancient Languages (specifically Latin and Greek) for my undergraduate degree, with four years of Latin in high school before that.
Awesome, now you can teach me Attic Greek! After that comes Sanskrit.
How are you at Semitic languages? Because then I'd like Akkadian and with Eblaite for filler.
:smallbiggrin:

[Lillith]

While not even anywhere near knowing Latin, I had to learn some for my history education. Due to Latin being used so much in Christianity and the Middel Ages. Also the Romans of course. I wouldn't be able to say one single sentence, but it helped me see how a lot of words originated from Latin. And I know some historical related (mostly religion related) Latin words. Which I like. :smalltongue:

[CrimsonAngel]

I learned that lum means light today. :smallbiggrin:

[nihilism]

why do i not kiss you philaenus? your bald
why do i not kiss you philaenus? your redheaded
why do i not kiss you philaenus? your one eyed

whoever kisses philaenus....... (rest would get me banned)

studying roman humor is interesting, its never how anyone thinks of the romans

[Aedilred]

I wouldn't recommend Caesar if you're just starting to read Latin. He's just about the best-known writer, but I found him to be one of the harder authors to translate (not as bad as Livy, but still not all that easy).

I'd go with some Pliny (the Younger) to start off with. What he's writing about might not be as interesting as Caesar's stuff, but I always found it a lot easier to translate. Cicero and Ovid are also good recommendations at an early stage.

[DeadManSleeping]

Question: Does this thread title mean that Latin is The Bomb?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Question: Does this thread title mean that Latin is The Bomb?

Everyone always messes up their Dr Strangelove references anyways.

It's How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb,
not How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb

[Kneenibble]

I learned that lum means light today. :smallbiggrin:

I believe you mean lumen. Or possibly lux.

[Gullara]

French can be useful in parts of the world and here in Canada, I think you need it to get a job with the federal government. :smallannoyed:

French is useful in Canada? I never noticed:smallamused:

[Killer Angel]

French is useful in Canada? I never noticed:smallamused:

French is always very useful. Please don't undermine the grandeur. :smalltongue:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

French is useful in Canada? I never noticed:smallamused:

It's useful if you plan on studying in Montreal. I don't care if McGill is an English university, what fun is it if you don't ENJOY the city?

[Lioness]

So, I was curious, and now my FB is in latin.

It's awesome....I can't read it, but it's awesome.

[Lord Raziere]

My motto is in (probably bad) latin: Pro Licentia Quod Singularis!

I'll leave it to others to translate it.

[Kneenibble]

My motto is in (probably bad) latin: Pro Licentia Quod Singularis!

I'll leave it to others to translate it.
It's not bad, except I believe you mean Pro Licentia Quae Singularis.

[Deth Muncher]

I need to learn Latin, eventually, what with the wanting to be a shark vulture lawyer in the coming years.

[Claudius Maximus]

I wouldn't recommend Caesar if you're just starting to read Latin. He's just about the best-known writer, but I found him to be one of the harder authors to translate (not as bad as Livy, but still not all that easy).

I'd go with some Pliny (the Younger) to start off with. What he's writing about might not be as interesting as Caesar's stuff, but I always found it a lot easier to translate. Cicero and Ovid are also good recommendations at an early stage.

I'll have to disagree with this. Caesar uses pretty basic grammar and only seems to know like one or two hundred words (all he ever does is kill ambassadors and build and then subsequently destroy bridges, so I don't suppose he needs many). He's definitely the easiest author I've ever been assigned.

On another note, I've been a Classics Major for 3 years, and I have yet to meet a single person who knows what that is. :smallfrown:

[Kneenibble]

Yeah. I'll take Caesar over ****ing Lucretius or Terence any day of the week except Saturnalia, thanks.
(that is, for ease, if not for interest)

[dehro]

It's useful if you plan on studying in Montreal. I don't care if McGill is an English university, what fun is it if you don't ENJOY the city?

meh... french...
I was on a holiday in Cuba once, and this quebequois started talking to me in french, asking for the english name of something I can't remember.
I do speak french, but had a bloody hard time understanding him.

actually the main reason I reply to this thread..the title reminded me of an anecdote my high school teacher told me, in italy, that is..when we were moping about latin being a dead language...
she was in england on a holiday once, a few decades ago I reckon.. got stuck somewhere with a faulty car or something of the like..the local pastor drove by on his bike, and since he didn't speak italian and her english was next to nothing, they got by in latin, and the pastor was able to help her out admirably.

[TruorTupnm]

Yay Latin! I took four years of the stuff, in high school. Unfortunately, my teacher was more interested in history and art than the language. Also, she was very easy to distract, and her indifferent students knew it. But oh well. I got several brands of interested in the language. I read all of the books that she had on the subject and was always correcting her, in the middle of class, which she actually didn't seem to mind.

After high school, I kept and gradually collected more Latin books, telling myself that I'd eventually learn it, on my own. Turns out, I am lazy. oh well.

Was anybody else ever a part of the N. J. C. L.? I got to go to two of those National Latin Conventions. Very fun. http://www.njcl.org/

Random Latin information --->

Verb endings:

o - I am
s - you are
t - he, she, it is
mus - we are
tis - you are
nt - they are

And I forget the future and past versions and all of that. Ah, ero, eris, erit, eramus, eratis, erunt? Something like that. Still, Yay Latin!

[rakkoon]

I went to one Latin Olympiad and spent 1.5 hours on a small text. I was very confused why they were talking about stones and some kind of playing and suddenly food...When it ended I discovered it was about a fight in the arena. It all made sense after that.

[Chunklets]

Best tip I've ever had for learning Latin:

Repetitio est mater memoriae - "Repetition is the mother of memory."

I pass that one on to my students on about day. Basically, you the verb and noun paradigms and repeat them out loud over and over and over again, until they are automatic. You can do this whenever you find a free moment - in the shower, waiting in line for things, on the bus (this last will cause kind people to give up their seats to you, and make sure that you get off at the right stop :smallbiggrin: ).

As far as ancient authors to start with, I definitely agree with the people putting forward Pliny and Caesar. You'll probably want to stay away from Tacitus and Livy until you've got a fair bit of experience - they're definitely worthwhile to read, but very difficult.

[SaintRidley]

I'm one of the Old English (and in the future Old Norse) people, but one thing that will become invaluable if you want to learn the language -

It's already been said, but learn your noun declensions. Latin and Old English are a lot like German in that regard - declension does the work, not prepositions or word order.

Articles also get dropped because it's often assumed to be a definite unless otherwise specified. So word order won't often tell you much of anything except maybe that the first noun is the one that is more important.

[Amiel]

Enjoy veterinary medicine; had to do 6 years of med here, we had to rote learn every anatomical structure.

Here's a meaningful phrase, sic non confectus, non reficiat.

Oh, and real Latin is meant to be pronounced like this; Gaius Julius Caesar: Gai-oss Yoo-li-oos Kai-sar, as opposed to the contemporary pronunciation.

[Claudius Maximus]

So my professor and I are considering trying to publish a student edition of Lucian's True History. Has anyone here worked on it? If so, do you think it's a worthwhile project? Anything you'd like to see in such a book?

[Morph Bark]

I had four years of Latin in high school, alongside five years of Ancient Greek. Could've had the option for six years Latin, three years Ancient Greek though, but chose for more Ancient Greek as it seemed simpler to me at the time and more in line with my other subjects, as while Latin is commonly used in biology (and perhaps justice practices), Ancient Greek has its fair share in science.

I'm fond of Latin proverbs or quotes though. Julius Caesar really knew how to spin it.

[Syka]

I'll have to disagree with this. Caesar uses pretty basic grammar and only seems to know like one or two hundred words (all he ever does is kill ambassadors and build and then subsequently destroy bridges, so I don't suppose he needs many). He's definitely the easiest author I've ever been assigned.

On another note, I've been a Classics Major for 3 years, and I have yet to meet a single person who knows what that is. :smallfrown:

Surprisingly, I've never done any Caesar. In third year in high school, my teacher had us do Cicero instead. She knew most people did Caesar, but thought Cicero would teach us more. Then we went to the Aeneid in fourth year, then I skipped Latin 1&2 in college and went straight to 3 (only did that for a refresher). My favorite Latin author so far is probably Cicero, though. Difficult, but interesting.

That said, I'm with you. My degree is in Classics, and most people have no idea. The few that do, however, I greet gladly and we nerd out. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Truor, I was in NJCL! I attended two of the national conventions, three state, and all four of my regional. I was briefly a member of NSCL but that kind of failed. I'm wondering if I can rejoin to help out with state conventions and the like.

I was slightly saddened when I realized I didn't have my high school Latin shirt anymore (I have my ex's, we traded Latin shirts, lol). I still have my FSCL and college shirts, though. Haec palus est!

[Form]

I took 4 years of Latin in high school, but only 1 year of Greek. With Latin I think we covered some writings from Seneca and in the final year we covered writings on the second Punic war. I loved all the bits of history we got along with the language. It was great and I don't regret it for a moment. I still have some of the teaching materials too, including a Latin dictionary.

Even though it's been a long time, I still feel a little bit Roman because of those classes.

[Starbuck_II]

So, being a student of veterinary medicine (for about a month now), my latin studies have begun. Or, more accurately, we're learning the names of the bones of common animals and on the side we get some grammar.

Are there any knowers of the dead language here on the playground?

Ancient Greek? I'm taking it now.
I can read/translate basically some stuff.

[Morph Bark]

Ancient Greek? I'm taking it now.
I can read/translate basically some stuff.

So are you as bothered as I am by certain fonds turning the w into a lowercase omega? :smallwink:

[Cleverdan22]

The cart is in a ditch. (You Ecce Romani students know what I'm talking about)

[Claudius Maximus]

So my professor and I are considering trying to publish a student edition of Lucian's True History. Has anyone here worked on it? If so, do you think it's a worthwhile project? Anything you'd like to see in such a book?

Just adding to this, I'd like to hear any general advice you guys might have for an ideal intermediate workbook. Do you like on-page vocabulary and notes, for example?

[Syka]

Just adding to this, I'd like to hear any general advice you guys might have for an ideal intermediate workbook. Do you like on-page vocabulary and notes, for example?

I dunno. When you are translating, those on page vocab things make it ridiculously easy to translate. You don't really have to bother memorizing the words when it's Right There. Notes are very, VERY nice, but unless it is an obscure word not likely to be in the Middle Liddell (if meant for Classics-major-intended-course) or regular Latin dictionary (for a general Latin course), I'd say avoid on page vocab.

Make those student's work. ;)

[TruorTupnm]

Ah, it is cool to see another NJCL veteran. I was only able to go to two of the national conventions (Norman, Oklahoma and New Orleans). My school couldn't get enough interest to go to any of the later ones, and I wasn't even aware of regional conventions. But then, my Latin teacher was only aware of state conventions, until I asked her about the nationals. http://www.starwarsepics.com/forums/scarlet/smilies/rolleyes.gif Ever play Certamen? I was a large fan of that.

Anyways, here is what I was told was everyone's favorite Latin pun ---> Semper ubi sububi. Always wear underwear.

[Syka]

You are off by two years, lol. I went to San Antonio in '03 and Richmond '04. Even met my ex at San Antonio.

God, I miss it. :smallfrown: Classics seems to inspire such fellowship. State was fun, but super competitive. It was harder to place in FJCL than it was at Nationals, in my opinion. Nationals was allll about fun, though. *remembers fond memories*

I still keep my Regional/State trophies on my dresser. :smallsmile:


We never actually went to Nationals as a school, though. State we did, but Nationals was a "Go if you feel like". Florida had (has?) such an amazing delegation.

Alas, I never did get in to Certamen. I know, I'm a bad latin-ite. Although, that is the best pun ever despite being almost totally grammatically incorrect.

[Quincunx]

Just adding to this, I'd like to hear any general advice you guys might have for an ideal intermediate workbook. Do you like on-page vocabulary and notes, for example?

My Catullus and Horace workbooks had them and I considered them essential. Instead of flipping the pages to a glossary where every unusual word was only going to be used in two or three poems, putting a great deal of stress on the spine, we could stay on the page and look up and down to each poem's glossary, save some wear and tear, and instead spend the class time trying to hammer the translation into the semblance of verse. If the words are common throughout the text, then a glossary would be superior.

I still have some medallions from the state-level competitions in storage. . .er. . .somewhere, so I can't go find them and see who sponsored it. They would've been for poetry though--through some quirk of getting bumped up a year, I never translated prose, only poetry (which probably contributed to that mere 3 on the Latin AP test :smallyuk:).

[TruorTupnm]

Dang. I tried to get to go to both of the ones you went to, but I was one of only two people at my school that was interested. oh well. Yay for the Floridian delegation! Most of the cool people that I met at the Nationals were from that place. Some very intelligent Certamen players, and a bunch of crazy people who got me into a card game called Mao.

The conventions were the opposite, for my school. Sate conventions were pretty much required, but most people just thought of it as a fun little trip and didn't take it seriously. The Nationals were just for the few people that actually were enthusiastic, so they took it more seriously. oh well. I got rid of all of my awards and various art projects, while moving. I mostly miss my Hephaestus costume, which won first place, at the Nationals. Very cool cape, made to look like flames, very fun to flick around.

Towards the NSCL, the college that I went to didn't have it and wasn't interested, and I didn't have the money to just show up, on my own. I'd be interested in going again, though. I'd have to attach myself to some college that did it. I thank you for making me think of it.

[Syka]

Yeah, from what I can tell my university didn't have a very active FSCL/NSCL group. Very active Eta Sigma Phi organization, though. I was part of FSCL/NSCL for a year or something and my membership lapsed after that.

I've been thinking of talking with the Latin teacher at my old high school (former pupil of my Latin teacher there) to maybe chaparone the State conventions and/or Nationals again. As you said, though, it's a fair bit of money to chuck out.

But oh so worth it. :smallbiggrin: I love running in to the new generation of Latin students at my job. I can always tell when regionals is coming up.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

So I have something I want translated, and I figured this was the place to ask. Anyone know what, "Ad proximum convivium" means?

[Claudius Maximus]

Looks at "to (or at) the next (or nearest) party (or gathering)" to me.

Sorry about the parentheses, but Latin words can have a bunch of slightly different meanings so I'm offering alternatives. If it's in reference to when something will happen or be discussed, it's most likely "at the next gathering (which I suppose would be a meeting of some sort), but if a bunch of drunken classicists are exclaiming it it's most likely "to the next party".

I would wait for a second opinion though, since I'm notoriously bad with idioms and phrases.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Aha! I was lead to believe it meant, "On to the next party!" but thought the source rather unreliable. That confirmed it. Thanks!

[Syka]

Except that is the jist of that exclamation.

"To the next party!" is a loose, but appropriate, translation.