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View Full Version : Ever have problems with distributing loot fairly?



randomhero00
2010-09-27, 03:57 PM
More specifically among players who aren't always there. We have a player in our group that is only there 1/3rd of the time but she gets equal loot rights, in fact lately because of luck, she's gotten the best loot, custom stuff we are assumed to have to fight the big bads. So now when she isn't there we're like 20% weaker or something because she's carrying our pseudo trump card. :smallannoyed:

I find this both unfair, and quite illogical. But no one else seems to see my viewpoint in my group. They think we'll be fine but we're going up against bad guys can sometimes have up to 10 levels on us. And if we TPK that's it. Because of the spot we're at in the story the campaign would end. We wouldn't be able to make new characters. I'd be quite annoyed because I really want to finish this (otherwise awesome) campaign.

Any thoughts? Want to share a similar story?

137beth
2010-09-27, 04:07 PM
During the time when you are missing a player, run easier encounters. Pretty simple, no?

randomhero00
2010-09-27, 04:10 PM
During the time when you are missing a player, run easier encounters. Pretty simple, no?

Can't, we're in the middle of a story line. The bosses and situations do get a little easier, but the big bads don't suddenly become wimps because we're missing a player.

big teej
2010-09-27, 04:10 PM
More specifically among players who aren't always there. We have a player in our group that is only there 1/3rd of the time but she gets equal loot rights, in fact lately because of luck, she's gotten the best loot, custom stuff we are assumed to have to fight the big bads. So now when she isn't there we're like 20% weaker or something because she's carrying our pseudo trump card. :smallannoyed:

I find this both unfair, and quite illogical. But no one else seems to see my viewpoint in my group. They think we'll be fine but we're going up against bad guys can sometimes have up to 10 levels on us. And if we TPK that's it. Because of the spot we're at in the story the campaign would end. We wouldn't be able to make new characters. I'd be quite annoyed because I really want to finish this (otherwise awesome) campaign.

Any thoughts? Want to share a similar story?

my first suggestion is "don't do loot randomly"
for example, a pile of loot one of my groups accumulated cosisted of
x gold (we'll say 100 for the purposes of our example)
5 battle axes
1 masterwork battle axe
1 suit of 'slightly magical' studded leather armour

each character (5 man group) got the following
1 battle axe
20 gold pieces

leaving us with 1 masterwork battle axe and a "slightly magical" suit of armour un assigned

nobody else within the group could use and/or wanted the battle axe, ergo, my dwarf got it.

there were 2 characters who wanted the suit, so they rock paper scissored for it.

there, all loot assigned, no arguments, etc etc.


now, if the character is getting loot that 'makes sense' for them to get, and they simply can't make it most of the time.

the DM may want to start making the more important loot "make sense" for a different character.

also,
(I am aware you somewhat addressed this, but humor me, I am a completionist)
you could simply tone their loot rights down to a proportion of when they show up.

I certainly would not be opposed to implementing something like the following should attendence become a problem.

if someone shows up 100% of the time, they get their full share
if someone misses every third session, 2/3rds full share

the leftovers (such as the 1/3rd) is split up amongst the members who show up 100% of the time.


last,
offer NPC's to fulfill empty party roles, but they get a full share of treasure and XP, thus making sure any party roles are filled, but demonstrating to the group the importance of people who fulfill certain roles showing up.


..... /ramble

I hope some of that was remotely helpful/usable.:smallredface:


now if I may ask,
why are you the only one at the table to hold this viewpoint?
and
is the group having fun?

mangosta71
2010-09-27, 04:15 PM
Easiest way I've found is to just not use random loot tables. I customized loot so that everyone got an equal share, and no one character was decked out in the best that the group had seen. The biggest part of that is talking to the players about the goals they have for their characters and working toward them. It kept my players happy and satisfied that nobody was getting preferential treatment (or shafted).

Chipp Zanuff
2010-09-27, 04:16 PM
Can't, we're in the middle of a story line. The bosses and situations do get a little easier, but the big bads don't suddenly become wimps because we're missing a player.

BS. You can always give the enemies the flu. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorfHadTheFlu)

randomhero00
2010-09-27, 04:19 PM
The group is having fun. I think I'm the only one with this view point is because (and I hate to speak ill of my friends) is that they're being a little arrogant (heh or maybe just there characters are.) As you can probably guess we're optimizers (heavy roleplayers too for the record.) And we've steamrolled through most of the campaign so they think we'll be fine regardless. But the difficulty is seriously getting turned up now and they don't seem to be noticing quite yet. We're getting thrown into situations where the environment alone could kill us, not to mention the nasty creatures.


BS. You can always give the enemies the flu.
Doesn't matter, I'm not the DM and she's not changing it.

aquaticrna
2010-09-27, 04:38 PM
so just to clarify, one of your party members is getting loot when they aren't even there to participate? personally i say **** that, you get what you are there for, if that puts you three levels and several thousand gold behind the rest of the party then that's what you earned.

as for your current situation, is there any way you can have on of you or the dm run the missing player so you aren't totally screwed?

VirOath
2010-09-27, 04:40 PM
I've always been in groups that does party vote on who gets what, so what is needed gets to who needs it. When it comes down to people missing sessions, it depends on the player.

If it's a random thing, then we often will hold of on loot to wait for them. But more than once we've had players that have the habit of just vanishing from the table for no good reason (Such as wanting to play WoW that night at the last minute), in cases like these, we normally hand out loot the night we get it, if you aren't there then tough luck.

Both have lead to powerlevels being fairly even in all honesty.

Susano-wo
2010-09-27, 04:42 PM
IF you need the trump card, what's to say that the character can't loan it to one of you whilst gone?
Also, whats to say the char. can't be NPC'd during combat scenes? I understand that some people are apprehensive about that, but it seems to beat the alternative.
Finally, it seems that maybe you guys should hold off playing out hte finale until the last person can be there? Lets everyone participate, and makes it that much cooler.
Ok, really finally this time. :D It seems a bit strange that story continuity is improtant enough to not nerf bosses for lack of a player, but that its ok for the character so simply be abscent...::shrug::

Tharck
2010-09-27, 05:25 PM
Might consider proxying their character. If bad guys suddenly getting a little weaker because not all of the PCs show that night doesn't make sense - then people randomly disspearing in the middle of the adventure shouldn't either.

AslanCross
2010-09-27, 05:27 PM
I use random loot tables (MIC), but I always make sure there is some form of treasure everyone can find a use for. (So if the rolls are ugly, I reroll until I find something better, or just pick one of the same price that would work.) The best piece of treasure will usually only work well with one of the characters, but I try to make sure that later treasure piles will cater to other characters instead.

Towards the end of the adventure, I also make sure that each PC will get one "signature" magic item. This one is typically customized to fit their character and not a pregenerated one.

In my last campaign, I gave out:
-A giant maul based off the Titanic Hammer in Explorer's Handbook for the dwarf crusader
-A +1 brutal surge bloodfeeding byeshk greatsword of hobgoblin make for the Shifter warblade
-A +1 Large great crossbow that could manufacture its own ammo for the sniper rogue
-A staff that could be used as a Thunderlance for the cloistered cleric; it was a relic of her god and could be used to cast any single spell if she sacrificed a prepared spell (similar to Boccob's relic in MIC)
-A slain red dragon's horn with a small fraction of the dragon's psyche trapped in it for the kineticist. It was functional as a Psicrown, but she wielded it as a staff. She could activate it to use Energy Cone, Fly, and Psionic Dominate Person.

Typically I craft the item so that it makes the PC better at what she does, or gives her something else to do other than what she usually does.

Zaq
2010-09-27, 08:25 PM
I'm notoriously bad at giving out good loot, so when I GM nowadays, I pretty much just give up and have the Gold Fairy leave a big pile of metal until the PCs' pillows when they deserve it, then give them access to something resembling a magic mart. (Wishlists do help, but this is still a nice supplement.)

I try to also throw in fun but not critical items as loot, but again, those are secondary.

It's a cop-out, but it leads to happier players than me simply failing to give them what they need because I couldn't find a good place to stash a loot pile.

Tukka
2010-09-27, 09:25 PM
The rules state that a character does not get XP for an encounter if that character doesn't contribute towards overcoming it. A reasonable rule for the players (as well as the characters) to adopt mirrors this rule: if you don't help with the encounter that nets the party some loot, you don't get a share. To simplify bookkeeping and to prevent ill feelings or a massive imbalance of loot (should someone miss a battle with the hoarding monster), you might not strictly adhere to such a rule on an intra-session basis unless it's very common for one of the characters to excuse himself from encounters -- and you might not do it on a session basis either unless absences are very common ... but if they are, I think it's the sensible way to handle it.

As for the divvying of loot itself, this is how we've always handled it ... in spoiler because I think this is somewhat standard (or maybe just boring) stuff:

After each session, count up how much everything would be worth if sold to merchants and divide it by the number of players during the session; record the shares and make it available for everyone to see. Players who wish to provisionally claim items can do so as soon as the item is looted, without it being counted against their share; if an item would be useful to multiple characters and nobody is willing to forfeit a provisional claim on it, settle it with a coin flip or some other method.
Have it be so no claims are binding until you get back to town and actually have a chance to sell/buy stuff, at which point everyone gets the combined value of all of the shares they've acquired to "buy" items from the party at price the NPC merchant would pay, and gets any excess of his share back in cash. Choose a consistent method for handling items that multiple players want -- bidding war, coin flip, group vote, whatever -- but whatever method is decided upon, the person who gets the item still has to pay something for it out of his or her share.

Everyone I've ever played with has been cool with this, so long as someone (usually me) was willing to do the bookkeeping.

Generally though, absent players would have their characters played by a stand-in player, at least until a plausible in-game reason could be contrived for the character's absence. So long as the character was present, we let it keep accumulating wealth/XP normally, though the player would not have the opportunity to earn certain meta awards (attendance XP, bonus XP or action points for cool RP and brilliant ideas, etc.)

Dr.Epic
2010-09-27, 09:33 PM
If a player is only there a third of the time I would (a) consider dropping them from the campaign or (b) make them a recurring NPC they can play whenever they show up. As for loot drop, in my experience the PCs usually just divide the loot evenly in terms of GP and certain items may go to certain players depending on how well they'd use it.

WarKitty
2010-09-27, 09:41 PM
Don't you raid backpacks ever? When a player can't show up we put them on a shelf for the night and have their character hand over their backpack.

Gabe the Bard
2010-09-28, 12:48 AM
In our group, players who don't show up for a session don't get any of the loot or even XP. This has caused a bit of a problem with uneven character levels, but the DM usually found a way to even things out.

Actually, we haven't divided loot in a really long time, partly because the DM has been very stingy with giving us treasure. Since we had so little cash, we usually bought one expensive item for a single player at a time. This has worked out pretty well so far. No one complains about the cleric casting a quickened heal in the middle of battle with her shiny new metamagic rod.

In a previous campaign, however, we argue quite a lot about dividing the loot. It had less to do with who was present at the sessions, and more about who needed or deserved a bigger share. Should the sorcerer get more money because she needs to buy scrolls, or should the barbarian get an extra share to replace her broken armor?

I prefer the way that we're doing it now. But there is the problem of a jinx, that sometimes we give a lot of stuff to one character right before he disappears or become an NPC, carrying away all of the items with him...

Dsurion
2010-09-28, 12:59 AM
DM perspective: Loot? You're still alive and you have all of your gear. That's enough. Those nice men you just brutally murdered have some mighty nice trinkets, however...:smallsmile:

Tyndmyr
2010-09-28, 01:01 AM
Yeah. I divide the XP between players present for an encounter. Usually it's equal, but I occasionally make exceptions when one or more players clearly do not make an effort to contribute whatsoever. Gotta at least be involved in some way.

Loot drops when it drops. What the party does with it is up to them. Historically, people have not traditionally given an even share to absent members. If something especially relevant to them drops, it might be saved for them, but it's hardly guaranteed. In character, it rarely makes sense for someone absent for the majority of the time to be paid equally with those along on every adventure.

hewhosaysfish
2010-09-28, 07:48 AM
Historically, people have not traditionally given an even share to absent members. If something especially relevant to them drops, it might be saved for them, but it's hardly guaranteed. In character, it rarely makes sense for someone absent for the majority of the time to be paid equally with those along on every adventure.

The problem is not when the character is absent. The problem is when the player is absent but the character is unavoidably present (because sessions never end at a a convenient break in events). In character, it makes no sense to say "You don't get an equal share of the loot because you were run as an NPC for part of the time".

prufock
2010-09-28, 07:53 AM
IF you need the trump card, what's to say that the character can't loan it to one of you whilst gone?

And if that fails, rob 'em!

DeltaEmil
2010-09-28, 08:12 AM
I'm glad that I don't play with xp at all, and the party unanimously decides when they want to level up, so that they can stay at their prefered sweet spot longer, instead of having to get into the crazier mechanics of high level D&D. Also, abstracting wealth and only focusing on the items that are meant to be used as equipment helps with reducing unnecessary book-keeping, and problems like that.

Not to be able to play D&D for tonight should be enough punishment, unless the missing player really has something better to do, then the gaming group should respect that.

Aharon
2010-09-28, 08:23 AM
I had such problems, and chose a solution that's a mixture of the traditional approach and what Frank&K suggest (aka Wish economy):

In my game, players get a share of their WBL that is tied to the xp they got for the last session. This way, it is guaranteed that they are at the expected power level and have the stuff they want.

They still care for in-game rewards because those use the magic item rules by Frank&K: They improve with the level of the wielder, and often have abilities tied to skill ranks or BAB.

I just ruled that in game monetary rewards can't be used to increase character abilities with permanent items. This also get's rid of the violent hobo syndrome - they actually use their wealth for luxury and don't put the last copper piece into better swords etc.

bokodasu
2010-09-28, 12:07 PM
Our group does half xp and gold for people who don't make it (handwaved with "they were on a different adventure that week"), which keeps them more or less functional for when they do come. But even though we also use the "magical gold fairy" method of loot distribution, we still loan good equipment to each other when we're not at a session. A player who never plays getting all the good stuff is just silly.

But if everyone else in your group is ok with it, then good luck with that. I doubt anything we say is going to change their minds.

PersonMan
2010-09-28, 12:20 PM
What I'm wondering is, if this character isn't being used(what it sounds like) without the player, and you're in the middle of a storyline...how do you justify that they randomly poof? And how does it make sense that when they de-poof they get a bunch of treasure? I may just not be understanding what's going on, but it sounds really strange if I'm right.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-28, 01:30 PM
The problem is not when the character is absent. The problem is when the player is absent but the character is unavoidably present (because sessions never end at a a convenient break in events). In character, it makes no sense to say "You don't get an equal share of the loot because you were run as an NPC for part of the time".

Ah. See, I don't run them as NPCs. They have the option of either having another player run the char for them(which most will do, given proper notice in advance), or having the character not present. I can always come up with a reason why someone might be unable to continue for a bit. The former is preferable, with the obvious risk of having someone get your char killed while you're not there. So...pick someone you trust. In a good group, this shouldn't be terribly hard. It also rewards people organizing absences, instead of just not showing up, which is a big plus in my book.

However, if you ARE there, as an NPC, then the whole loot not contributing issue the OP has shouldn't exist. Therefore, I suspect that's shes getting loot for when neither player nor character are contributing.

But it is pretty hard when you're the only person that wants to use a given loot method. You might have to just react as if that loot and player wasn't available.