Civ IV succession game: Goldfinger!

[happyturtle]

It's time for another succession game, and this time the theme is Espionage! Who needs libraries, universities, or science specialists when we have James Bond running our spy program? We'll steal everything we need! :smallamused: And to go with the title, I'll regenerate until we get a gold start. :smallbiggrin:

Up to six players. If you're interested, post here with your difficulty level and thoughts about the other game options. There are a few leaders who are well suited to Espionage Economies, so we'll pick from among them.

Useful traits:
Organized (cheap courthouses)
Philosophical (more great spies)
Financial (leverage cottage economy to turn commerce into espionage)
Imperialistic (synergizes well with the Great Wall)

Possible leaders:
Gilgamesh - Creative and Protective, but gets ziggaruts (early courthouses)
Frederick - Philosophical and Organized
Suleiman - Philo / Imperialistic
Elizabeth - Philo / Financial
???

Player Roster:
Happyturtle
Sucrose
Winthur
ObadiahtheSlim
TerraOblivion
Jonzac

Variant rules: Never trade away our gold, put research to 0% after Code of Laws, steal all our tech. :smallbiggrin:


First turnset = 30 turns
second turnset =20
thereafter = 10



Theme songs for this thread:

Goldfinger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_PJODH3p0) (obviously)
What if Civilization Had Lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL6wlTDPiPU) (minor language warning)

[Terraoblivion]

Sounds good to me. Let's go with Frederick. I don't think i have ever played a game as him or Germany in general. Should be fun to try.

[Sucrose]

If I could get some instruction regarding hosting the images and save file, I'd love to join in.:smallsmile:

I've now played Civ 4 enough to be able to win most of my Prince games (albeit always with Mansa Musa). My weaknesses are warmongering (I barely create enough defenses to drive away invaders) and cultural victory, because I hate ceasing research with every fiber of my being. Most of my victories have been Space Race or Diplomacy.

As you can tell, I'd be something of a weak link, but I think that I could build reasonably well on what the other players would do.

[happyturtle]

I use photobucket (http://photobucket.com/) for images and mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/) for save files. Both are free.

Can you bear stopping research even earlier to focus on espionage? :smallbiggrin:

{table=head]Player|Leader|Map|Difficulty|Other options
Happyturtle|-|Pangaea|Monarch/Emperor|-
Winthur|
Terraoblivion|Frederick|
Sucrose|
[/table]

I usually turn goody huts off, but I'll leave that up to the assembled masses.

[Sucrose]

Given that it leads to us being able to steal others' research? I think I could tolerate it.:smallwink:

[happyturtle]

Everyone check the table above and vote your preferences, if you have any. I like Pangaea for spy games, so you know all your targets early.

[Terraoblivion]

Pangaea is generally the map scrip the AI handles best, so i support that. For difficulty i support Monarch, we have a relatively new player and i believe that you are the only one to have any real experience with espionage.

I also see no problem in keeping the huts open since this is still ultimately a singleplayer game and we have to worry less about game balance. And i just find them to be too fun to turn off for a slightly higher degree of balance.

[Sucrose]

I have no map preference (I tend to play Fractal, so I'll go with what's given).

I'm willing to give Frederick a shot. Seems like a very good choice for this playstyle. For difficulty, I would like to request Monarch. It's a step up from my usual work, and I'm honestly a little terrified of Emperor.

What victory condition will we be aiming for?

[happyturtle]

{table=head]Player|Leader|Map|Difficulty|Other options
Happyturtle|-|Pangaea|Monarch/Emperor|-
Winthur|Frederick or Roosevelt|Pangaea|Monarch|
Terraoblivion|Frederick|Pangaea|Monarch|-
Sucrose|Frederick|-|Monarch|-
[/table]

I don't have a victory preference. Space would be tricky to pull off, with us having to be a little behind in tech all the time. Diplomatic also tricky with all the 'your spy was caught causing trouble' penalties we'll rack up. But neither is impossible. Culture will be though. Maybe leave the decision until mid-game?

Do we want to make any roleplay "rules" for this variant? Like working a spy specialist in every city above a certain size, or hoarding all the gold we can get? :smallbiggrin:

[Winthur]

Monarch. Yes, I still can't win consistently enough on Emperor, something that bugs me earnestly. With this... variant of sorts, Monarch should still be very winnable.

I don't think we played Pangaea during the course of our SGs. Although I did play a solo Monarch game with everything Random except Pangaea map script and won an easy Domination victory with Sitting Bull of all people. :smalltongue: So Pangaea is fine with me.

I'd lean for Frederick: our Great Spies will be churned out that much faster and easier. We will also get the all-important discount on Universities, allowing us to make a quick whipping dash for the Oxfo... wait, nevermind. :smallredface:

Yeah, I've been wondering why your list of useful traits for such a variant doesn't contain Industrious... Cheap Forges and wonders, means that even without Stone we would nab The Great Wall. We could also get the Great Lighthouse if map allows. Our National Wonders would build faster, too.

Perhaps Roosevelt would be a better choice, but if we're going by the possible leaders list, Frederick seems good enough for me. Wonderspamming might not be so hot since we'd want to keep our Great Person Points pool filled with Spies mostly, after all. Still, that bonus to Universities which won't ever come into play is either a bummer... or a challenge. :smallwink:

No objections to Organized, we can plant additional cities before our economy crashes, plus cheap Courthouses means cheap EP and maintenance.

BTW, I'd say that until Alphabet we should be able to tech freely, otherwise we're kinda screwed. :smalltongue:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I've heard Suleiman is good for espionage. He gets one of the best UBs and his UU is no slouch either. Since we gotta rely on that great wall for all our GP points early on, philo works well. Imperialistic works great with the great wall as well.

[happyturtle]

Is that you in, Obadiah?

Yeah, I didn't consider Industrious because of diluting the Great Spy pool. But it's pretty hard to keep it pure anyway. There aren't nearly enough spy wonders. My list wasn't a definitive one by any means - just my own thoughts on the matter.

We'll tech freely until Code of Laws. We'll need those courthouses, after all.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Sounds fun, but I don't have enough Civ IV experience, I only started playing yesterday. But this'd be cool to keep an eye on.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Sure put me in. I'm not that great of a player and I haven't really done much with espionage when I play.

[happyturtle]

Okay, here's the starting position.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0131.jpg

((Yes, I regenerated until I got gold. Though at one point I had gems and was tempted to change the theme to Diamonds are Forever. But Goldfinger was the best Bond movie, and everyone knows it. :smallbiggrin:))

Let the debate about where to settle begin!

Save Game (http://www.mediafire.com/?u78d873nli7fnaf)

Some (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/suleiman_espionage.php) espionage (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269801) economy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252496) reading people may find useful

Rules for this variant:
Build the Great Wall! If we miss out on it, start over.
Tech and expand freely until Code of Laws.
After that, set the slider to 0% research and steal steal steal. :smallamused:
Never trade away our precious, precious gold! :smallbiggrin:

[Sucrose]

Hm. Where you are seems pretty good to me. Plenty of forests to chop to get the Great Wall, fresh water, three resources nearby, including a food resource, and plenty of room for the first city we can get after Iron Working.

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, i agree. Looks like a rather good spot to me.

[Jonzac]

I'm up for this if you need a sixth player still.

as for your start position...move north one square to bring in the fourth resourse

[ObadiahtheSlim]

One quick question. Are you using any game mods and will this work just fine on the steam version of BTS?

[Sucrose]

I'm up for this if you need a sixth player still.

as for your start position...move north one square to bring in the fourth resourse

This is an interesting point. Would it be worth the one-turn delay on starting our civilization up to grab that sugar immediately? I'd think that we'd want to start teching and building as quickly as possible, and it'd be a while before we got full advantage out of the sugar anyway.

[Winthur]

I'm up for this if you need a sixth player still.

as for your start position...move north one square to bring in the fourth resourse

Hmm.
This suggestion loses a forest and one turn.
It guarantees us an additional grassland hill and more flatland grassland tiles, as well as, of course, a Sugar tile.

To me it looks like a choice between long term and short term. One tile North, our civilization starts the process of growing a little later and loses a forest. However, after all of this is cleared, 1N looks like a wonderful cottage city. While I initially wanted to write a long-winded woeful poem to the loss of the beloved Oxford University, I realized that we will probably want the Espionage Slider high. And Scotland Yard requires only a Great Person to work its multiplying magic - namely, the Great Spy.

Therefore, 1N sounds to me like a pretty good economy ensurance which throws away early game production (unless the uncovered tiles to the south and east are just some plains) for late game production (watermills! workshops!) and some commerce.

Let me see: on the east of the Settler there's a tiny glimpse of something that looks like a water body, although it is perhaps a river or a lake. To the north of us, there's jungle growing, so moving the capital to it would push us in that direction. Until Iron Working, that jungle is useless. Which means we have more space to settle in the south.

Also, if my knowledge of map generation is any worth, it appears we are south of the equator. Moving north might mean that we push towards our neighbors, allowing us more land to backfill.

So, I'd say Jonzac has a pretty good eye and it's a worthwhile suggestion, although not really for the Sugar resource for which we will have to steal Calendar. :smallwink: It's probably pretty safe given what we're able to see with our units, though, so we might as well go with that!

(Also, I'm up now? Huh! I will have to do it this Thursday, because my weekend is internetless! :smalleek:)

[Flickerdart]

I'd pitch in, but I haven't been able to win consistently on Noble or above, so...:smallfrown:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

It also makes a northern city weaker. We could make a city that would have both sugars and the bananas. Depending on whats further north this may or may not be relevant.

[Winthur]

We will have our Iron Working rather late, so that "future city" is a late bloomer at best. Besides, there isn't really that much harm in overlap, especially since I don't foresee a space win (rather inconvenient to do just by stealing the techs), where you want quality over quantity. Which seems to be the case - I'd use that Banana/2Sugar spot for farming Spy specialists (and later, SP workshops :smallwink:), and for GP farms you don't need a lot of worked tiles. We can borrow the sugar when capital doesn't need it for growth.

(Oh wait, I just realized I'm NOT up now, just that happyturtle posted a save. I'm a dunce. Still, unavailable on Friday to Sunday.)

[happyturtle]

I can't play tonight, so if someone else wants to do the first turnset, feel free.

We want the strongest capital possible for a Scotland Yard city, even if it weakens future cities.

[Inhuman Bot]

I'd play, but I'm super terrible. That might make it more fun though, like it did a DF succession game I played in. :smalltongue:

[Terraoblivion]

One to the north does sound like a fairly good idea now that i look more closely at it. But perhaps we could have the scout look around for the first turn of its movement before deciding. No real rule saying that you must decide on the settler before using the scout.

[IncoherentEssay]

Maybe i'm missing something but 1N would trade:
-1 turn
-5 squares of what seems to be forest/grassland or forest/plains
-the settler uses up the 1N forest to no benefit.
for
-1 sugar
-2 grassland, 1cgrassland/hill, 1 forest/???

So a net effect of 4-5 less forest & a lost turn for sugar, which needs calendar. Cottages would go fine on the cleared grassland from chopping for the wall, no? Though i have not finished all that many games, and don't play on the higher difficulties, so my input may be terribly flawed :smalltongue:.

I loaded the save and settled to see the results, so spoilered in case whoever goes first doesn't want to know:
Silk at 2W.1S, another Gold at 2E, floodplains at 1E.2S no water squares, so watermills & workshops are still go. So an exchange of Silk for Sugar.

[happyturtle]

T0: Settle Berlin in place. The more I thought about it, the less I liked losing a turn and putting the resources outside the initial city borders. Start with teching Animal Husbandry, for the pigs, and then will do Masonry. Worker start.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

T2: A village gives us 36 gold.

T5: Another village. That's better. :smallsmile:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

T7: Huh. Tundra to the north. That was unexpected. :smallconfused:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

T10: Hinduism is founded somewhere. And our scout found some stone, too far for use on the Great Wall.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

T11: Another 25 gold from a village.

T12: AH is in. On to masonry!

T14: Buddhism is founded.

T15: Our worker is done. He starts on the pigs, and the city starts building a warrior.

T20: The pig is finished. Now on to mining that gold.

And if you are wondering why the gold didn't come first, given the theme, need I say BACON? :smallbiggrin:

T22: Masonry is in. I start on Agriculture. We'll want Wheel and Pottery next, I think.

T25: Our warrior is finished. I start on The Great Wall.

T26: Then I decide the warrior should go on and scout, so we'll want another unit for city garrison, and queue up an archer in front of it.

T27: Our scout is given gold from one village, and our warrior given XP from another. And we still haven't met anyone else. *double checks settings to make sure we're on Pangaea.*

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

T28: Nice - the XP takes our warrior to Woodsman 2, so he can scout nicely. And some victims neighbors.

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

T29: No, really Willem. No need to bow to us. :smallamused:

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

T30: The second gold tile is mined, and the warrior moved to start chopping. Both Jungle Jim the scout and Woody the Warrior are injured.

World map (http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq40/happyturtle-avs/werewolf/civ4/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg)

Save file (http://www.mediafire.com/?8cz2qdqsb9rn50d)

Happyturtle
Sucrose << Up (20 turns)
Winthur << On Deck (10 turns)
ObadiahtheSlim
TerraOblivion
Jonzac

Flickerdart and Anatheron - there's no problem with lower level players joining in, except for this game being full. But next time, feel free. :smallsmile:

[Terraoblivion]

You know, i find it hilarious that it took so long to meet other players when they were right next to us like that. Also it seems like it went pretty well so far. And of course, once we have the wall it's time for a new city. I also can't help but think of Pink Floyd when talking about that thing. :smalltongue:

[Winthur]

Maybe i'm missing something but 1N would trade:
-1 turn
-5 squares of what seems to be forest/grassland or forest/plains
-the settler uses up the 1N forest to no benefit.
for
-1 sugar
-2 grassland, 1cgrassland/hill, 1 forest/???


In hindsight, it's a proper evaluation, yeah.

I figured that with us being on Pangaea and the north being jungled, we would move forward into a wide open space with lots of room in the south, but alas, it turned out not to be so - the opposite, in fact.

1N isn't a bad spot, but it's clearly worse than SIP now that the land around starting spot has been revealed.

Oh well, nobody said that just because I'm semi-good at Civ do I have to be that smart. :smalltongue:

[happyturtle]

Grabbing that third gold fits the title theme, but the horse and ivory might be more useful.

[Terraoblivion]

We don't have bronze working yet, right? Because if we don't it appears that there is stone just north of the third gold. Not that it really matters, getting a Settler out first would delay the wall more than it is worth.

And for a second city i propose the spot just above the horses. That should give us Ivory, Sugar, Spices and Horses in just one city.

[happyturtle]

Yeah, we don't have bronze working. So much for my chop chop plan. :smalltongue:

We should farm the flood plains instead, I suppose.

[Winthur]

Currently I'm inclined to the spot 1NW to the Horses, grabbing Ivory, Spices, and Horses. The spot with the Gold hasn't been entirely uncovered (by the way, I'd produce another Warrior to scout and fogbust, because right now we have huge black spots right next to where the core of our empire is supposed to be founded on...) but from the peaks and desert, there doesn't seem to be much food covering the Gold spot and it seems rather weak from this standpoint.

By the way, is that warrior to the south of our empire a fogbuster or is he just healing? Because if he's the former, then he isn't in a great spot for the job; I'd move him a few tiles SE to other hills.

By the way... no seafood on our coast. Bummer to that.

Also, let's rush Willem with Elephants, because Chariots won't work at this point.

[happyturtle]

He's healing.

[Sucrose]

'Load Error: Cannot load version 302; expected version 301 or lower.' Is there some patch I need to download?

[happyturtle]

Are you running Beyond the Sword version 3.19?

[Sucrose]

How do I check that?

[happyturtle]

From the menu, Advanced > About this Build.

If you don't have it, the patch can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12576). The 'check for updates' within the game doesn't work.

[Sucrose]

Ah, that'd do it. Downloading now. Also, while I wait, how do you generally capture images? Just use Print Screen into a picture editor?

[happyturtle]

If you hit Print Screen during the game, it saves the pictures in a folder

My Games > Beyond the Sword > Screenshots

I uploaded them to photobucket and used their editing tools to crop it to stay within forum rules.

[Sucrose]

Historian's Note:

Queen Happyturtle ruled over the German people long and well. Sadly, after overindulging in the festivities in the Oktoberfest of BC 2800, at an age of 1200, her reign came to an end, leaving management of the city-state to her second-in-command, Warlord Sucrose. Though paranoid, he was a devoted implementer, and constructed the defenses Happyturtle had begun planning, that would permit Germany to begin diverting resources from pure defense to the more...specialized activities that would grant it it's present influence. His notes from the period follow.
------------------------------------------------------

BC 2800: I look upon our burgeoning empire. Defense is...quite light. Thankfully, Happyturtle left me with some interesting plans. We should have that issue corrected soon enough!

BC 2760: We have recently finished the training of a garrison of elite soldiers capable of sending sharpened sticks hurtling at our enemies from far away. Some call them 'archers,' for how their sticks arc through the air. I just call them Black Rain Company. I also have some interesting plans left over from Happyturtle regarding how to best use their new skills. I set the villagers to work constructing mighty walls, from which black rain can fall upon those who would assault us. Jungle Jim reports that his men have sustained injuries. I grant permission for him to stay in place, and lick his wounds.

BC 2720: One of our brighter villagers figured out how to save effort moving things around, by carrying them on cicular objects. Hopefully, this will speed our construction of the grand wall Her Majesty Happyturtle devised. I set our best construction crew to farming a fertile patch of land a bit to our southeast, and several of the brighter men to the task of finding a material stronger than rock.

BC 2680: Our brave, if somewhat out of date rangers, led by the venerable Woody, finally finished resting, and sought contact with a tribal village on the southwest shore (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn33.jpg). They were showered with gold by the welcoming group. They shall make a fine addition to our empire. I have ordered Woody to the southeast, to deal with the lion infestation. Jungle Jim's band is likewise fully rested, so I sent them to continue exploring our immediate surroundings, pulling them back to the northwest (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn33-Scout.jpg).

BC 2640: Woody noted that Sitting Bull had sent out a settling crew (http://s1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/?action=view&current=Turn34-Scout.jpg)! Given that they are heading toward a planned settling site of the German people, I asked Woody to keep an eye on them.

BC 2600: The lions of the southeast fled Woody's mighty force, but more have appeared to the East! Such dangers to our expansion cannot be tolerated. Woody was dispatched to deal with the beasts.

BC 2560: That treacherous snake! Sitting Bull has stolen our land! (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn36-Treachery.jpg) Further, in so doing, his men forced Jungle Jim into an open plain near the sighted lions, nearly leading to the destruction of the full troupe! Sitting Bull shall pay. Not today, perhaps, but one day...

The only good to come of this is that Jim's men became quite agile while evading the lions, and should be able to cover even forest at full speed, now. For now, I had him move into a nearby forest, to rest and recuperate.
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn36-MakingCamp.jpg)
BC 2520: Woody was sent back to the southeast, for further exploration. It is a cold land, but a strangely lush one (http://s1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/?action=view&current=Turn37theSWcoast.jpg). To get a better view, and there-LIONS! (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn37LIONS.jpg)

Fortunately, their exodus had left the pride injured, and they were no match for Woody's mighty band.

BC 2480: My brilliant thinkers have come through (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn38-BronzeWorking.jpg)! We now have a material, 'copper', which can tear apart trees with ease! The trees can now be used to aid in construction of our mighty empire's defenses! Woody requested leave to heal his men; it was granted. The bright men were now allowed to work on whatever suited their fancy.

BC 2440: I sent the construction crew, who have decided to call themselves Empire Builders, into the forest to the south of Berlin to begin taking scaffolding timber to the defense grid. Soon... very soon....

BC 2400: The demolition of the forest began, and I accepted the request of a few villagers to put together a settling party, as soon as their work in the Great Wall is concluded. Of course, their part will prove rather long-lived... I also received word that Jungle Jim and Woody had finished healing, and sent their troupes to the southeast and east, respectively.

BC 2360: One of the bright men came to me today, and announced that he'd found a way to store grain and water (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn41-Pottery.jpg). How useless! How can they expect to defend the empire with that?! Seeing how pointless their own interests were, I forced them to begin work on a way to communicate over long distances. More direction in our empire is clearly needed.

BC 2280: Empire Builders completed the scaffolding needed (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Scaffoldingcompleted.jpg). As we have continued to expand, I decided that more housing was needed, so I set them to work building a few houses in the cleared space. One of the smart-alecks said 'I told you so.' I'm still not sure what he was referring to.

BC 2240: An emissary from some arrogant fool (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn44-PacalArrives.jpg) calling himself Pacall II arrived. I opted to tolerate his insolence for the moment. I just hope he doesn't realize that what comes around, goes around. Jungle Jim reported seeing some archers in Pacal's colors in the northern section of the Eastern lands.

BC 2200: AHAHAHAHAHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU7wOlj8zsY)! It's complete! The Great Wall of Germany is finished! The Black Rain company will rain hell upon invaders unopposed! Surely, none will dare assault us now! Further, my wise men have come through with a system of symbols that may aid our long-distance communique. I'm so pleased, I granted their request to do a bit more refinement. For now, this 'writing' can allow us to make more lasting agreements with our neighbors, as neither side can wiggle out by saying he didn't promise his part of the bargain. I've quickly made agreements for safe passage with all of our neighbors, including a man encountered by Woody (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn45-Gilgamesh.jpg), who amusingly considers himself a god. After all, best to keep your enemies close, no?

BC 2120: Empire Builders went into the forest east of Berlin, to acquire more building materials for the settlement party. They hope to speed the group's readiness.

BC 2000: Woody and Jungle Jim's explorations have taken a dangerous turn, into a nest of vipers: Barbarian bowmen (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn50-BarbarianArchers.jpg)! It appears the wandering tribes are becoming more advanced!
------------------------------------
So, TL/DR version: Great Wall is built, first Settler will be arriving soon, Woody is probably going to die unless someone wants to mess with his movement a bit. (Wouldn't be hard, just didn't want to sugar-coat my mistakes.) Have encountered a couple of new leaders, and one of our town locations has been taken by Sitting Bull.

Eastern Map (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/EastofContinent.jpg)

Turn 50 Savegame (http://www.mediafire.com/?q21143ub8nb8ule)
Turn 48 Savegame (http://www.mediafire.com/?k1e2vhw2zas1pv3) (for if Winthur would rather save Woody)

Ending Demographics (http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Sucrose2010/Turn50demographics.jpg)

As you can see, we aren't doing too hot, by conventional measures, as expected of a civ that took off a lot of its early game to build the Great Wall.

Sorry for the linking, rather than posting. I don't really have time to mess with editing software tonight, and my images are very large.

[Winthur]

BC 2200: AHAHAHAHAHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU7wOlj8zsY)! It's complete!
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5349/thed.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/thed.jpg/)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uudge!
:smallbiggrin:

Yeah, having to build that blasted wonder on this map is a kick in the nads, and now we need to catch up. We won't have Ivory :smallfurious: yet we need to find a way to invade our neighbors. I foresee we will crash our economy with units and fightning just to secure the land. We need to focus on that - we simply can't do everything at once. Thus, I suppose we dash for Iron Working to clear the northern jungle, since there doesn't seem any other land we can get to. Get to Construction by some means and kill both SB and WvO. It might not be so tough, 3-4 cities this map allows us to settle (albeit tightly cramped at first sight) should be enough to field a Swordsman/Catapult army (just pray for the damn Iron). If no Iron, we can put all our hopes into being first to Civil Service/Machinery and... wait, nevermind. :smalltongue:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Yeah I thought it odd that we didn't build any cities before working on the wall.

[Terraoblivion]

That's because the risk of losing the wall was too great and getting that thing is both a requirement for succeeding at this variant and a rule of it. So if we hadn't done it, there was a good chance that the game would have ended right then and there.

[Sucrose]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5349/thed.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/thed.jpg/)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uudge!
:smallbiggrin:

Yeah, having to build that blasted wonder on this map is a kick in the nads, and now we need to catch up. We won't have Ivory :smallfurious: yet we need to find a way to invade our neighbors. I foresee we will crash our economy with units and fightning just to secure the land. We need to focus on that - we simply can't do everything at once. Thus, I suppose we dash for Iron Working to clear the northern jungle, since there doesn't seem any other land we can get to. Get to Construction by some means and kill both SB and WvO. It might not be so tough, 3-4 cities this map allows us to settle (albeit tightly cramped at first sight) should be enough to field a Swordsman/Catapult army (just pray for the damn Iron). If no Iron, we can put all our hopes into being first to Civil Service/Machinery and... wait, nevermind. :smalltongue:

Well, if Sitting Bull's borders don't expand, the Ivory's actually still a possibility: he settled in the wrong spot to nab it before expansion, and hasn't yet done so.

[happyturtle]

He'll expand. He has totem poles.

[happyturtle]

Happyturtle
Sucrose
Winthur
ObadiahtheSlim << Up
TerraOblivion << On Deck
Jonzac

Okay, Winthur has missed his turn, so that means Obadiah is up now. :smallsmile:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I'm open to some ideas here on how to catch up. I've never been this far behind on a start.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Well nobody has given me any ideas on how to play catch up so I guess I'm on my own. Give me a couple days to get to it.

[Winthur]

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/26211/original/ohyou_20slowpoke.jpg

[Sucrose]

Well nobody has given me any ideas on how to play catch up so I guess I'm on my own. Give me a couple days to get to it.

Sorry; I'm the one one whose turnset we fell behind on, and a relative newbie, so I don't feel like I could offer very useful advice.:smallfrown:

[Jonzac]

That's the fun of succession games in my opinion....watching others run the turns...I learn a lot, especially when they give their thought process behind it.