Fighter Techniques (Just An Experiment)

[Ziegander]

This isn't a Fighter Fix thread, it's just an idea I'm playing around with.

Once when I was on a team who set out to examine the flaws in the 3.5 game system and attempt to overhaul the whole thing, I noticed that spellcasters were set up as the favored classes of the initial designers from the very beginning. They had entire chapters of the book devoted to them, and their ability scores granted them bonuses to their powers above and beyond anything the non-casters' abilities could do. So, I was struck with an odd idea then: what if the Fighter were set up as the mundane mirror of the Wizard? Just as the Wizard gets a Familiar that increases in power as the Wizard gains levels, the Fighter could get a Weapon Bond that increases in power as he gains levels. Just as the Wizard gets spells known and spell slots per day, the Fighter could get Techniques known and Technique slots per day. Just as the Wizard is able to cast additional spells each day based on a high Intelligence score, so too could the Fighter use additional Techniques per day based on some as of yet to be determined ability score. I would bring balance to the force!

Anyway, I never went anywhere with the idea, but I aim to do so now.

Techniques would be a wide variety of effects that the Fighter is able to produce either using his exceptional mundane skill with weaponry, or the supernatural power inherent in his mythical Weapon Bond. All Techniques would require one or more feats in order to use.

For example, Dirt Nap, a 1st level Technique, requires the Improved Trip feat. By expending a 1st level Technique slot, and spending a free action, a Fighter using the Dirt Nap Technique forces a foe he's successfully tripped to make a Will save (DC 11+Str modifier) or fall unconscious. It's not quite the Sleep spell, but it's not bad.

Another example would be True Focus, a 1st level Technique, requiring the Weapon Focus feat. By expending a 1st level Technique slot, and spending a standard action, a Fighter using the True Focus Technique gets a +20 bonus to his next attack roll as long as he makes it before the end of his next turn. A perfect imitation of True Strike.

Other 1st level examples that I feel could make sense: Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Protection from Alignment, Hypnotism (via impressive Weapon Displays), Burning Hands (except not dealing Fire damage), Cause Fear, Chill Touch (just the 1 Str damage part), and Feather Fall. And those are just from the PHB.

So whaddya think? Could be fun.

[DragonOfUndeath]

so essentially spells that multiclass wizards/fighters can use in a AM-field?

[Soulblazer87]

Well, it IS a good idea but it has already been done in Tome of Battle. And it works really well too. At least much better than the SRD fighter. You may want to take a look over there to see how things go, get a few ideas possibly.

I also tried to make something like 'combat schools', whereby fighters gain a unique class skill dependant on what school they follow. Then, they have certain strikes (no more than the total number of attacks at their level) that let them do something they could already do, just better. The skill's there to mostly show just how good the character is.

These special strikes have very specific prerequisites such as weapon sheatched, quick draw, the opponent being unprepared etc etc. It's not that the fighter gains a new ability per se, but more like becomes really good at doing something, such as tripping the enemy and striking right after. It is entirely possible for a skill to require more than one attack to use, all depending on what actions one wants to do.

My way is still in the infant stages though, so it's mostly unusable. If it gave you an idea on what you want to do however, then I'm happy.

[Ziegander]

Well, it IS a good idea but it has already been done in Tome of Battle. And it works really well too. At least much better than the SRD fighter. You may want to take a look over there to see how things go, get a few ideas possibly.

I know all about Tome of Battle, and yes, I do think it does a fine job of making melee warriors more powerful throughout the levels. What it doesn't do is attempt to closely mirror the Wizard.


so essentially spells that multiclass wizards/fighters can use in a AM-field?

While these Techniques would certainly be usable in an Antimagic Field, they have nothing to do with Wizards or multiclass Fighter/Wizards. They would be "spells" that the Fighter uses with Technique slots per day. It's a thought experiment in emulating the Wizard using the Fighter paint palette, if that makes sense.

Fleshed out examples:

Dirt Nap
[Mind-Affecting]
Requirements: Improved Trip feat
Level: Fighter 1
Action: Swift
Range: Weapon
Target: One tripped creature
Duration: 1 min/base attack
Saving Throw: Will negates
Weapon Bond: No

As your foe stumbles and falls you slam him into the ground knocking him unconscious. After you succeed on a Trip attempt against a foe you may use this Technique as a swift action. If you do, and the target fails its Will save it falls asleep as the Sleep spell for the duration of the Technique. This Technique doesn't work on creatures with 5 or more HD.

Karmic Ridicule
(Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Requirements: Improved Feint feat
Level: Fighter 2
Action: Immediate
Range: 30ft, +15ft/base attack
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/base attack
Saving Throw: Will negates
Weapon Bond: Yes

A foe laughs at you as you miss with an attack; however, he soon finds himself unable to stop! Calling on the supernatural bond between yourself and your weapon, as an immediate action after you miss with a weapon attack, one creature within range collapses into gales of uncontrollable laughter, falling prone. The subject can take no actions while laughing, but is not considered helpless. A creature with Int 2 or less is not affected. This Technique is supernatural in nature and requires your Weapon Bond to use.

[Nero24200]

It can be a bit of a hit'n'miss idea. Some people like that the fighter is mundane and unable to perform acts that really push the boundrys of human limits (even though certain elements allow them to do that anyway, such as surviving high up falls or stepping into lava at high levels due to hit points).

Though I have always toyed with the idea of granting all classes "spells" which are very subtle (and fluffed as a variation of psionics) where they only grant abilities that could argubly be done in RL, such as a "spell" to increase base land speed, allow a charge and full attack at the same time, grant AC bonuses or bypass certain DR...basically giving everyone Psychic Warrior psionic powers but greatly limiting the power list.

[Prime32]

Though I have always toyed with the idea of granting all classes "spells" which are very subtle (and fluffed as a variation of psionics) where they only grant abilities that could argubly be done in RL, such as a "spell" to increase base land speed, allow a charge and full attack at the same time, grant AC bonuses or bypass certain DR...basically giving everyone Psychic Warrior psionic powers but greatly limiting the power list.Look up the "Spirit Commands" (http://superrobotwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skill) (or "Seishin") system in Super Robot Wars.

Everyone gets a limited pool of SP (the size depends on the character and increases with level), and can use Spirit Commands as free actions on their turn only. Effects are instant or last for 1 round and include:

Recover 30% of total HP
Restore energy to a nearby unit
Next attack deals double damage
Take 1/4 damage from all attacks
Automatically dodge next attack
Increase speed by 2 squares
Increase Will (Will improves attack and defence, high Will is needed to use certain attacks)
Take another turn
Each command has a different cost, which can vary from character to character. For instance, "Strike" (next attack automatically hits) normally costs 10SP, but a crack shot might have it for 5SP, and in one case a character infamous for their bad aim required 30SP.

Certain items and Spirit Commands can restore SP, and there's an "SP Regen" ability.
It's somewhere between your idea and Action Points, on a per-encounter basis. The effects are powerful because attacks in SRW deal a lot of damage and bosses have insane quantities of hp.

[Fail]

All Techniques would require one or more feats in order to use.You'd start failing to mirror the wizard here - spells require nothing other than interest in having them right when you gain a level. And this isn't some minor point - you're obviously not gonna make as many options for fighters as wizards have (not to say that's needed to balance fighters), and each specific fighter would only have access to small subset of it (and that's when it'd become problematic).

Also, the reason why wizards win is spells like: major creation, fabricate, telekinesis, permanent/programmed/project image (I could include contingency, but that relies on your other abilities being useful enough). So I guess that weapon bond's gonna have to work a lot. :P

[Oslecamo]

It's somewhere between your idea and Action Points, on a per-encounter basis. The effects are powerful because attacks in SRW deal a lot of damage and bosses have insane quantities of hp.

Not only that, attacks are the only way to hurt your oponents and there's barely status effects (and those just last 1 round). So being able to dodge/hit really good, or shrugg off attacks/double your damage is godly in SRW.

In D&D where status effects are extremely common and save-or-die are everywhere, it may not be enough.

[IcarusWings]

The problem with making the fighter mirror the wizard is that it creates the same thing that many people don't like about 4e. The classes start to all become the same, and there isn't enough differentiation in mechanics. Yes, fighters as they are don't work, but you shouldn't just give them a mechanic from another class which also doesn't work (although on the other side of the spectrum of not-workingness), you should develop new and interesting mechanics which are mechanically sound and interesting, original, and fun to play.

[Ziegander]

Guys, seriously, I realize this isn't the Fighter Fix we're looking for, and I realize that unless I do really silly things this isn't going to equal a Wizard in power. I'm not aiming to do either of those things.

I'm just playing around with mechanics, because I like to do that sometimes. It's basically an experiment to see just how far I can push the Fighter class up the Tier system by giving it powers as close to Wizard spells as I can, but without resorting to anything completely stupid like, "because you and your weapon are best friends you can turn Invisible!"

The Weapon Bond stuff I'd be exploring with this experiment would basically be fluffed as the Fighter supernaturally harnessing and amplifying his will through a chosen weapon, which would act kind of like a "divine focus" and allow him to impose his will upon his foes and/or the environment. So, yes, Karmic Ridicule pushes the limits of silliness, but I feel like it works as a supernatural extension of the Fighter's will ("laugh at me will ya?").

[Fail]

The thing is, your mission statement, properly expanded, would also read, "Just as wizards don't have to check any prerequisites for their main abilities, neither do fighters."; also, there's the (admittedly implicit: "spellcasters were set up as the favored classes of the initial designers from the very beginning. They had entire chapters of the book devoted to them") premise that fighters get eleventies of techniques to choose from per level.

As for fixing, given that karmic ridicule could lead the way for dominate monster (well, one that wasn't broken ...), fixing might actually happen. :)

[Ziegander]

Well, the Wizard does have requirements for the spells he casts, they're just requirements that don't really matter at all. Like... Int 10+Spell level. I couldn't think of any one ability score that would make sense for a Fighter like that so I went with feats. But then, you're right. It can't be feats because then he would be FAR too restricted in what spells he is actually able to cast.

SO, perhaps this fighter actually has NO restrictions/requirements on his Techniques.

Anywho, in the past few days I've been working on this. For now I'm calling the class The Granbushi, and I've come up with his Familiar, I mean, his Weapon Bond. Let me know what you think. (Warning it's quite long.)

Granbushi Weapon Bond
Weapon Bond (Su): A Granbushi is able to form a strong supernatural bond with a selected masterwork weapon through a 24 hour process. Conveniently, Granbushis begin play with a single masterwork simple or martial weapon of their choice. Through this bond he gains abilities and insights with his weapon unlike any other weaponmaster, and the weapon itself gains intelligence and power. A bonded weapon is considered magical and gives off a Transmutation aura, the strength of which depends on the Granbushi's level.

A Granbushi may lose a bonded weapon, or may renounce such a bond himself. If such an event occurs the Granbushi loses 100 XP per character level. He may form a new bond with a new weapon only after a period of 6 months.

The bonded weapon of a 1st level Granbushi gains rudimentary sentience and acquires an Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma score (3 each). Further, a 1st level Granbushi wielding such a weapon gains a +2 bonus on rolls made with the weapon to Disarm, Sunder, or Trip. The weapon gives off a weak Transmutation aura. The Int/Wis/Cha of a bonded weapon increases with the level of the Granbushi it is bound to.

1-2 Int/Wis/Cha 3
3-4 Int/Wis/Cha 6
5-6 Int/Wis/Cha 8
7-8 Int/Wis/Cha 10
9-10 Int/Wis/Cha 12
11-12 Int/Wis/Cha 13
13-14 Int/Wis/Cha 14
15-16 Int/Wis/Cha 15
17-18 Int/Wis/Cha 16
19-20 Int/Wis/Cha 17

The bonded weapon of a 2nd level Granbushi gains a bonus to its hardness equal to the Granbushi's level and a bonus to it's hit points equal to 1/2 the Granbushi's maximum hit points. Further, a 2nd level Granbushi wielding such a weapon may call the weapon to his hand from a distance of up to 1,250ft by spending a full round action.

The bonded weapon of a 4th level Granbushi, when wielded by the Granbushi, gains a +1 enhancement bonus. This bonus stacks with enhancement bonuses gained through enchantment and does not increase the value of the weapon.

A 6th level Granbushi may communicate with its bonded weapon telepathically, the weapon can understand and speak with its Granbushi in Common, from up to 1,250ft away.

The bonded weapon of an 8th level Granbushi is considered an Intelligent Item and gains a Lesser Power from the list given on page 269 of the DMG (the player's choice, up to 5,000gp). Further, while wielded by the Granbushi, it gains a +2 enhancement bonus. This stacks with enhancement bonuses gained through enchantment, but not with those gained through Granbushi levels. The weapon gives off a moderate Transmutation aura.

Starting at 10th level, when wielded by a Granbushi with a bonded weapon of the same type, all weapons gain an enhancement bonus equal to half that granted to a Granbushi's bonded weapon through Granbushi levels. A 10th level Granbushi wielding his bonded weapon may use the weapon's Wisdom modifier in place of his own when making Will saving throws.

The bonded weapon of a 12th level Granbushi gains Spell Resistance equal to the Granbushi's level +8. Further, while wielded by the Granbushi, it gains a +3 enhancement bonus. This stacks with enhancement bonuses gained through enchantment, but not with those gained through Granbushi levels.

The bonded weapon of a 14th level Granbushi gains a second Lesser Power (any of the player's choice) and gains a Greater Power from the list given on page 270 of the DMG (player's choice, up to 11,000gp). The weapon gives off a strong Transmutation aura.

While wielded by a Granbushi of 16th level, the bonded weapon gains a +4 enhancement bonus. This stacks with enhancement bonuses gained through enchantment, but not with those gained through Granbushi levels. Further, the Granbushi may scry on his bonded weapon as if casting the Scrying spell once per day.

The bonded weapon of an 18th level Granbushi is immune to all spells and spell-like abilities. Further, while the Granbushi wields his bonded weapon he cannot be disarmed of it, gains a +4 morale bonus to AC, and gains a +5 bonus to any single attack roll made with it during his turn.

The bonded weapon of a 20th level Granbushi gains a second Greater Power (any of the player's choice) and gains a Special Purpose as well as a Dedicated Power as outlined on page 270 of the DMG. The Special Purpose is to defend all creatures of the same race as its wielder as well as any creatures its wielder deems allies. The Dedicated Power can be any one chosen by the player but worth no more than 130,000gp. Finally, while wielded by the Granbushi, the bonded weapon gains a +5 enhancement bonus. This stacks with enhancement bonuses gained through enchantment, but not with those gained through Granbushi levels. The weapon gives off an overwhelming Transmutation aura.

[Fail]

That may not be a problem, but it seems it's more likely to be mentally outclassed by its class feature than even a sorcerer. Also, maybe just go with samurai (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Samurai_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics%29)?

[Ziegander]

It would be interesting to see someone convert the FFT Samurai to DnD, though it would end up being even more highly magical and "anime" than anything from Tome of Battle.

What I'm planning to do with this idea now is to use the "weaponized arcana" system HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149724) and convert the Granbushi's mechanics to it, creating a sort of barbarian/sorcerer type character that is able to wield a limited number of supernatural abilities as attack actions. I think it has a lot of potential.

[Fail]

That swordmage does look interesting - and also much more supernatural than ToB - than the FFT samurai as well. As for the latter, do you mean the "breaking a sword specific to the skill" stuff, or just the skill list in itself?

[Ziegander]

As for the latter, do you mean the "breaking a sword specific to the skill" stuff, or just the skill list in itself?

Are you asking if I mean either of those based on when I said the Samurai would be more supernatural than Tome of Battle? If so, just the skill list in itself.