Generic Tome of Battle

[ZeroGear]

I am using the generic class variant from UA, and was thinking about how to incorporate the various fighting styles presented in ToB. I was thinking to make a few changes to the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats as follows:
Warrior Levels and Expert levels stack and count as martial adept levels for qualifying for maneuvers and stances.
You can take these feats more than 3 times.
You can recover expended maneuvers you know as a full-round action.

This would lead to a specialized fighting class, but nothing overpowered.
Do you guys think this would work or anyone have better ideas?

[Mongoose87]

Make a feat for a recovery mechanic, then make Martial Study give different benefits, based on that mechanic, and make Martial Stance usable more often based on the mechanic. Change the cap on Martial Study to be level-based.

[ZeroGear]

Mongoose, examples would be nice.

[Zaknir]

Base the Initiator Level on the Base Attack Bonus of the character, so that everyone che take it but only warriors can achieve real "mastery".

Make every character roll 1d10 to determine wich of the 9 disciplines is their "primary discipline" and allow them to choose manouvres only from that school. (If somone make 10, then roll twice. The caracter is a genius who studied two disciplines at same time).

If the characters want to learn manouvres form other schools, they must take a feat (like: "Crossed Training") wich allow them to learn manouvres from other disciplines, but their Bab is considered 3 points lower than its real value.

In order to learn disciplines characters must use Martial Study and Martial Stance feats, and both can be taken more than three times.

[Mongoose87]

Mongoose, examples would be nice.

I'm more of a macro-guy.

[Knaight]

Base the Initiator Level on the Base Attack Bonus of the character, so that everyone che take it but only warriors can achieve real "mastery".

Make every character roll 1d10 to determine wich of the 9 disciplines is their "primary discipline" and allow them to choose manouvres only from that school. (If somone make 10, then roll twice. The caracter is a genius who studied two disciplines at same time).

In order to learn disciplines characters must use Martial Study and Martial Stance feats, and both can be taken more than three times.

Initiator Level on BAB works well, though a feat should be necessary.

Or, alternately, just let every character have limited access to all disciplines, as per 1/2 level Initiator level, with a discipline bought for a feat. Rolling is unnecessarily random in this case.

Martial Study and Martial Stance are a bit narrow in this case, so feats for entire disciplines would probably work better.

[Prime32]

Initiator Level on BAB works well, though a feat should be necessary.
Why tax non-spellcasters for maneuvers?

[DragoonWraith]

Why on earth would you roll for your discipline? Why wouldn't you just choose?

[Knaight]

Why tax non-spellcasters for maneuvers?

The spellcasters still need to use the feats for access to the disciplines, its just that they don't get the big bonus IL for doing so.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The spellcasters still need to use the feats for access to the disciplines, its just that they don't get the big bonus IL for doing so.

His point is that spellcasters are inherently better than non-casters, so why would you tax non-spellcasters for trying to level the playing field?

[ZeroGear]

His point is that spellcasters are inherently better than non-casters, so why would you tax non-spellcasters for trying to level the playing field?

That is exactly why I chose only expert and warrior as able to get maneuvers. Since the expert gets less feats than the warrior, it gives him less access to maneuvers and stances, but more skills to work with. The warrior has less skills but more feats, letting him get more maneuvers and stances from less disciplines. Needing extra feats for recovery is kinda redundant since we get so few maneuvers and stances to begin with. Also, he bab based system just penalizes the expert unnessicarily, since it is a given that spellcasters only contribute 1/2 their level as martial adept equivalents.

I kinda find this more in line with most actual martial arts: you focus on one path and learn gradually rather than having to take moves in other disciplines because you have too many options.

If you all think that is being cheep, I could potentially alter the Martial Study feat to grant two maneuvers instead of one.

[Innis Cabal]

What's stopping them from taking a level dip into Expert to get the feat though. That sounds like a good use of a level you don't get spells to me.

[ZeroGear]

Is there anything wrong with that?
I'm sure a wizard or sorcerer took a level of swordsage at some point to ge a similar effect.

I took another look at the stats in the book, and taking Martial Stance the first time to get three maneuvers, then one or two additional maneuvers at each subsequent taking of the feat is starting to look more appealing To me.

[ZeroGear]

Pardon the double post, but I would like to revise myself on the feat. Here's a rough outline for it that should manage to create a decent combatant from a warrior by focusing him on a single school:

[Martial Style Learning]
Prerequisite: 4 ranks in the Dicipline's associated skill
Benefit: Choose one Disciple. You gain two maneuvers and one stance associated with that style of any level you can use. You must still meet all the requirements for the maneuvers and stance. You can prepare two maneuvers for use in combat each day. You begin combat with all prepared maneuvers available to you. You can recover expended maneuvers by taking a stamdard action to concentrate. If you have multiple stakes, you can change them as a swift action.
Special: you can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take this feat, choose either to expand upon your previous school or to gain a new one. Each time you take this feat, gain two maneuvers of the choses school. Every two times you take this feat for the same school (3rd, 5th, etc) you gain a new stance.

This should be enough to create a decent martial artist with the warrior class. And this should leave him enough room to take other related feats.

Opinions?