Icewraith
2010-09-28, 04:58 PM
Google searches related to this idea have identified similar, but far more complicated (and admittedly powerful) infinite loops. As far as I know, people have focused on the "you can get infinite spells by making yourself immune to celerity's stunning effect" in combination with greater arcane fusion and metamagic reducers to get infinite 7th level spells.
However, the combination of Greater arcane fusion, sanctum spell in a non-sanctum area, rapid metamagic, and any spammable 4th-level or lower spell of your choice appears to be capable of generating any combination of known 4th-level or lower spell effects in one round, with the cost investment of one eight level spell (to cast the initial Greater Arcane fusion).
To wit:
1: Cast Greater Arcane Fusion, using an eighth level slot. You now have a 7th level spell and a 4th level spell you can immediately (in the same round) cast without using additional slots, as long as the casting time is one standard action for each spell.
2: Pick Sanctum Spelled Greater Arcane Fusion. The spell is treated as one level lower for all purposes, including save dc and so forth, thanks to rapid metamagic it is castable as a standard action. You can now blanket the field with any combination of 4th level or lower spells known to you at no cost. So you can hit everything in line of sight with force orbs, spam anything within 30 feet with wings of flurry, cover the battlefield in stinking cloud/solid fog/web/glitterdust, and buff your party with overland flight for the day with the one eight-level spell slot. Furthermore, whenever you're done setting up nasty spell effects (Sanctum Spelled Cloudkill for example), you can use the last 7th level spell and close the loop on a Greater Dispel Magic or similar.
Also interesting to note is you can use the same loop with arcane fusion to get infinite second-level spells via heavy use of sanctum spell. Since I beleive rapid metamagic can be gained no earlier than 12th level the lesser loop is of some interest as it only requires one 5th level slot.
Why bother with this/why is it interesting when far more powerful loops are avaialble? It's simple!
1: Minimal feat investment. (three feats assuming there is a prerequisite for sanctum spell) Minimal cost. (One eigth level spell slot or one Fifth level slot for the second level spells)
2: Negligible ramp-up time. (The action to cast the initial Greater Arcane Fusion is all that is required. No dancing in an out of an absorbtion field for hours or relying on ten million lackey casters and cooperative spellcasting or circle magic, or bothering Pazuzu)
3: Only one part of the chain involves any gray/debatable area in terms of adjucation. It's a simple DM fix to address the imbalance (address Sanctum spell).
4: Doesn't rely on traditional metamagic reducers for the abuse, such as incantatrix, Improved metamagic, Arcane Thesis et. al.
5: Versatility! Any 4th-level or lower spell (5th level if you want to sanctum spell those too) is spammable for an infinite/arbirarily high number of times for one round, with no extra resource cost and no additional negative afteraffects (Stunning/dazing, etc). Y'know, aside from the environmental damage wrought by cloudkilling everything in line of sight.
The reason I bother posting it is
1: It doesn't show up on the first few pages of google, so it's possible no one has thought of it before. Even if someone has (and if someone comes in here in the next three posts with a link and says "nuh-uh, X came up with this idea on the old boards two years ago), this particular flavor of loop isn't something I've seen bandied about before, although its components are in a more coplex loop with a higher resource cost (templating for immunity to daze).
2: for an infinite damage combination I find it refreshingly direct. It involves no difficult-to-acquire templates, large and convoluted feat combinations, or dodgy uses of spell effects- once you've resolved Sanctum Spell as working the way people appear to use it in this sort of thread, the application is straightforward.
3: I thought of it. :smallbiggrin:
Discuss!
However, the combination of Greater arcane fusion, sanctum spell in a non-sanctum area, rapid metamagic, and any spammable 4th-level or lower spell of your choice appears to be capable of generating any combination of known 4th-level or lower spell effects in one round, with the cost investment of one eight level spell (to cast the initial Greater Arcane fusion).
To wit:
1: Cast Greater Arcane Fusion, using an eighth level slot. You now have a 7th level spell and a 4th level spell you can immediately (in the same round) cast without using additional slots, as long as the casting time is one standard action for each spell.
2: Pick Sanctum Spelled Greater Arcane Fusion. The spell is treated as one level lower for all purposes, including save dc and so forth, thanks to rapid metamagic it is castable as a standard action. You can now blanket the field with any combination of 4th level or lower spells known to you at no cost. So you can hit everything in line of sight with force orbs, spam anything within 30 feet with wings of flurry, cover the battlefield in stinking cloud/solid fog/web/glitterdust, and buff your party with overland flight for the day with the one eight-level spell slot. Furthermore, whenever you're done setting up nasty spell effects (Sanctum Spelled Cloudkill for example), you can use the last 7th level spell and close the loop on a Greater Dispel Magic or similar.
Also interesting to note is you can use the same loop with arcane fusion to get infinite second-level spells via heavy use of sanctum spell. Since I beleive rapid metamagic can be gained no earlier than 12th level the lesser loop is of some interest as it only requires one 5th level slot.
Why bother with this/why is it interesting when far more powerful loops are avaialble? It's simple!
1: Minimal feat investment. (three feats assuming there is a prerequisite for sanctum spell) Minimal cost. (One eigth level spell slot or one Fifth level slot for the second level spells)
2: Negligible ramp-up time. (The action to cast the initial Greater Arcane Fusion is all that is required. No dancing in an out of an absorbtion field for hours or relying on ten million lackey casters and cooperative spellcasting or circle magic, or bothering Pazuzu)
3: Only one part of the chain involves any gray/debatable area in terms of adjucation. It's a simple DM fix to address the imbalance (address Sanctum spell).
4: Doesn't rely on traditional metamagic reducers for the abuse, such as incantatrix, Improved metamagic, Arcane Thesis et. al.
5: Versatility! Any 4th-level or lower spell (5th level if you want to sanctum spell those too) is spammable for an infinite/arbirarily high number of times for one round, with no extra resource cost and no additional negative afteraffects (Stunning/dazing, etc). Y'know, aside from the environmental damage wrought by cloudkilling everything in line of sight.
The reason I bother posting it is
1: It doesn't show up on the first few pages of google, so it's possible no one has thought of it before. Even if someone has (and if someone comes in here in the next three posts with a link and says "nuh-uh, X came up with this idea on the old boards two years ago), this particular flavor of loop isn't something I've seen bandied about before, although its components are in a more coplex loop with a higher resource cost (templating for immunity to daze).
2: for an infinite damage combination I find it refreshingly direct. It involves no difficult-to-acquire templates, large and convoluted feat combinations, or dodgy uses of spell effects- once you've resolved Sanctum Spell as working the way people appear to use it in this sort of thread, the application is straightforward.
3: I thought of it. :smallbiggrin:
Discuss!