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RndmNumGen
2010-09-29, 02:08 AM
I don't have much 3.5 material available, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any classes that served primarily as a healer or buffer while being weaker than the Tier 1 Cleric. I'm working on this thing for a low-power level game, and I want to be a healer but Cleric is probably too powerful. I could always go Bard I guess, but I can't cast healing spells while singing.

UnChosenOne
2010-09-29, 02:14 AM
Favorite Soul and Sprit Shaman (socerrer versions of Cleric and Druid) are in tier 2, Healer (class) is in tier 5 and I 've heard that the Dread Necromancer (tier 3) can make decent healer if everyone is group has a feat called tomb-tainted soul.

senrath
2010-09-29, 02:15 AM
The feat that allows Dread Necromancers to function as a decent healer is called Tomb-Tainted Soul. And it causes you to be healed by Negative Energy, and hurt by Positive Energy. Kinda like Undead.

Keld Denar
2010-09-29, 02:16 AM
Healer (Mini handbook) is about the lowest tier healer there is. Maybe around the level that a Paladin is. Very bad.

Also, you CAN sing AND cast spells at the same time. There is a feat for that. Melodic Casting in Complete Mage allows you to weave magic into songs to allow you to cast spells while performing a non-concentration bard song (like Inspire Courage). It also lets you use Spell Trigger items (read as: wands) while performing AND it allows you to make Perform checks in place of Concentration checks for most things involving spellcasting. Its pretty much AWESOME.

dspeyer
2010-09-29, 02:24 AM
Another option is an inefficient build. Try a sorceror / favoured soul / mystic theurge. Should still be fun, but not likely to outshine the party.

Zaq
2010-09-29, 02:43 AM
Healer/buffer? That just screams Dragon Shaman to me. PHB2. Not a very awe-inspiring class, but it can indeed heal and buff.

Draz74
2010-09-29, 02:45 AM
Keld beat me to mentioning Bard with Melodic Casting ...

There are lots of other classes that can more or less be healers/buffers:

Dragon Shaman
Binder
anyone with UMD :smallamused:
Ardent
Psion (Egoist)
either of the previous two with the Sangehirn PrC
Crusader
Truenamer

RndmNumGen
2010-09-29, 02:52 AM
Favorite Soul and Sprit Shaman (socerrer versions of Cleric and Druid) are in tier 2, Healer (class) is in tier 5 and I 've heard that the Dread Necromancer (tier 3) can make decent healer if everyone is group has a feat called tomb-tainted soul.

Hmm... Interesting, but I don't really think it fits the theme of the game, which is your basic Good(Or at least Neutral) adventuring party.


Healer (Mini handbook) is about the lowest tier healer there is. Maybe around the level that a Paladin is. Very bad.

Also, you CAN sing AND cast spells at the same time. There is a feat for that. Melodic Casting [...]
Wow. That sounds... well, just plain awesome. I'll have to look into that.


Healer/buffer? That just screams Dragon Shaman to me. PHB2. Not a very awe-inspiring class, but it can indeed heal and buff.
Dragon Shaman? I think I've heard of that, but I don't know much about it. Can you elaborate a bit on it?



Binder

I've mostly heard of Binder being used with Warlock. How can they heal, exactly?

gorfnab
2010-09-29, 03:42 AM
Dragon Shaman? I think I've heard of that, but I don't know much about it. Can you elaborate a bit on it?
It's in Player's Handbook II. Draconic Aura: Vigor, which can be gained at 1st level, is basically fast healing for anyone in the party as long as they are below half hit points. Once they reach half hp the fast healing for them stops. At 6th level they gain Touch of Vitality which is like a Paladin's Lay on Hands but as you level up you can spend some of the hp healed to instead remove status based conditions like daze, poison, disease, etc.



I've mostly heard of Binder being used with Warlock. How can they heal, exactly?
Binding the vestige Buer (4th level vestige) lets you as a standard action basically cure minor wounds or as a full round action once per five rounds cure light wounds.

Thread that may be of use to you
Healer's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6849.0)

Zaq
2010-09-29, 03:49 AM
As has been hinted at, Dragon Shamans get auras, which give nifty scaling bonuses to your allies (things like energy resistance, bonus damage, or whatever). One of the most popular ones grants everyone fast healing up to half of their maximum HP, so you never have to heal more than half of anyone's HP (outside of combat, anyway). Then yeah, they also get a better version of a pally's Lay On Hands (LoH is level times CHA per day; a DS's Touch of Vitality is twice that amount), and they get the ability to spend some of it to remove nasty conditions. (They also get a slightly underpowered breath weapon, and a few things based on their chosen flavor of dragon). They're kind of a weak class, but they're quite good at healing and they're passable at buffing, and they definitely won't outshine anyone or step on anyone's toes. I think that it sounds good for what you want.

Draz74
2010-09-29, 03:51 AM
Dragon Shaman? I think I've heard of that, but I don't know much about it. Can you elaborate a bit on it?

Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060822a) is a decent summary.

Dragon Shamans are weak melee warriors who get three main class features to buff them up: a healing ability (similar to the Paladin's Lay on Hands, but twice as much, and able to cure various other status conditions rather than just hit points), a breath weapon (underwhelming damage), and a number of auras that buff their party. (The auras are a pretty strong class feature at low levels, but they don't scale fast enough.)

Overall I believe the class is considered low Tier 4 in power.

EDIT: Dangit Zaq, stop Swordsaging me. :smalltongue:

cdrcjsn
2010-09-29, 03:56 AM
Just play a cleric.

You can set role playing restrictions on yourself so you don't dominate combats.

For instance, you can decide to enforce the "no bleeding" when fighting foes, forcing you to use ineffectual weapons and/or subdual tactics.

You can avoid all attack spells entirely except for spiritual weapon.

Or multi-class into something for a couple of levels which automatically puts you behind the power curve.

IdleMuse
2010-09-29, 07:42 AM
Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060822a) is a decent summary.

Dragon Shamans are weak melee warriors who get three main class features to buff them up: a healing ability (similar to the Paladin's Lay on Hands, but twice as much, and able to cure various other status conditions rather than just hit points), a breath weapon (underwhelming damage), and a number of auras that buff their party. (The auras are a pretty strong class feature at low levels, but they don't scale fast enough.)

Overall I believe the class is considered low Tier 4 in power.

EDIT: Dangit Zaq, stop Swordsaging me. :smalltongue:

There's an ACF in (I think) Dragon Magic that lets Dragon Shamans switch out the extra Aura at 5th level for a Least Draconic Invocation, which gives him a nice usefulness (if not power) boost. Still tier 4, but it helps with an annoying problem with single-classes Dragon Shamans; that they just have too many auras, many of which just aren't useful. Being able to pick up an awesome Invocation instead, granting stuff like See Invisibility, +6 to all Knowledges (devotion build?), Fog Cloud, at will, is pretty cool. Much better than just-another-dull-aura out of the list you've already cherrypicked everything you want from.

true_shinken
2010-09-29, 08:04 AM
There are plenty of options to boost a Paladin's healing. That's also an option.
Caduceus Bracers, I belive, are pretty significant.

Person_Man
2010-09-29, 08:08 AM
You could just play a Cleric and not buff yourself. Nothing stops you from memorizing weak spells, or memorizing strong ones but only using them occasionally.

subject42
2010-09-29, 08:58 AM
Eldritch Disciples can make for fun healers as well, if not optimal ones. Healing Lazors are a lot of fun.

HunterOfJello
2010-09-29, 09:08 AM
Any arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat.

This can work well with Beguilers and Dread Necromancers who are both Tier 3.

~


I would go with a Favored Soul of a good-aligned deity whose spell selection you control to avoid the more powerful spells.

Just have him buy lots of wands of lesser vigor, cure light wounds and faith healing to run around with for out of combat healing.

RndmNumGen
2010-09-29, 11:17 AM
Just play a cleric.

You can set role playing restrictions on yourself so you don't dominate combats.

For instance, you can decide to enforce the "no bleeding" when fighting foes, forcing you to use ineffectual weapons and/or subdual tactics.

You can avoid all attack spells entirely except for spiritual weapon.

Or multi-class into something for a couple of levels which automatically puts you behind the power curve.


My DM very specifically doesn't want me to be a Cleric or Druid, or any Tier I class. Tier II like Favored Soul would be acceptable, but the rest of the party is Rogue/Ranger, Warlock, Fighter/Barbarian and Monk/Paladin. So... Yeah.

I'm debating between Dragon Shaman and Healer at the moment. DS seems better overall, but I'm toying with the idea of playing a strictly noncombatant that refuses to harm anyone, which Healer falls nicely into.

jiriku
2010-09-29, 11:24 AM
The healer class does its job well enough for the group you're trying to fit into, especially if your DM lets you surf Spell Compendium for additional healing spells. I suspect you'll be quite happy with it.

Benly
2010-09-29, 12:01 PM
One semi-common house rule I've seen thrown around that perks up Healer a bit is to make it a full-list spontaneous caster working like the Beguiler or Warmage: they can spontaneously cast any spell on their class list, and every couple of levels let them cherrypick an appropriate spell off any class list (possibly any [healing] or [good] spell, for instance) to add to their spell list.

They still won't be earthshaking, but it makes them a bit more flexible.

true_shinken
2010-09-29, 12:41 PM
If all else fails, try the Adept.

Zaq
2010-09-29, 02:47 PM
The Healer is just that... a healer. The class has next to no buffs (even purely defensive ones) of any kind. If it's important to you that you're able to buff your allies, I cannot recommend the Healer. (This changes a little bit with Exalted spells, but those have the capability to be a pain in the butt at the table, not to mention kind of spotlight-hogging if you're not careful.) A DS's buffs are weak compared to those of a proper caster, but at least they exist.

Also, yeah, if you go with the Dragon Shaman, do your best to get your hands on a copy of Dragon Magic, because it has a few things specifically for the Dragon Shaman, like new auras or that ACF mentioned above.

Don't get me wrong... the DS is still a weak class with limited options, and pretty much always will be. But, if you want a "Low-Tier Healer/Buffer Class," they're pretty much custom-made for the job.

Keld Denar
2010-09-29, 02:50 PM
Zaq, surprised you didn't mention Truenamers, since you seem to be an expert. They are the LOWEST tier of healer, given that they are the lowest tier of anything, ever. LOL!

Zaq
2010-09-29, 03:17 PM
Oh, the Truenamer certainly exists, and can keep your HP full (that's one of their only tricks, after all)... but I know better than to actually suggest one for actual play. It's really, really, really not worth the headache.

subject42
2010-09-29, 03:22 PM
Another option is the Binder. The Buer vestige gives unlimited healing, one hit point at a time.

Keld Denar
2010-09-29, 03:25 PM
Tenebrous + Healing Devotion does the same thing, but much faster than Buer for much fewer actions.

Benly
2010-09-29, 04:05 PM
Zaq, surprised you didn't mention Truenamers, since you seem to be an expert. They are the LOWEST tier of healer, given that they are the lowest tier of anything, ever. LOL!

I end up saying this a lot, but it's still true: The truenamer is a reasonably viable albeit still lowish-tier class with minimal houseruling. Either an adjustment to the DC calculation or a +1 per class level to Truenaming checks is enough to render him workable; he won't be hanging with the real full-casters but a truenamer thus adjusted does okay around tier 4 or so.

Lhurgyof
2010-09-29, 04:22 PM
My DM very specifically doesn't want me to be a Cleric or Druid, or any Tier I class. Tier II like Favored Soul would be acceptable, but the rest of the party is Rogue/Ranger, Warlock, Fighter/Barbarian and Monk/Paladin. So... Yeah.

I'm debating between Dragon Shaman and Healer at the moment. DS seems better overall, but I'm toying with the idea of playing a strictly noncombatant that refuses to harm anyone, which Healer falls nicely into.

Healers also get a unicorn mount.


Zaq, surprised you didn't mention Truenamers, since you seem to be an expert. They are the LOWEST tier of healer, given that they are the lowest tier of anything, ever. LOL!

Complete Warrior Samurai. :P

true_shinken
2010-09-29, 05:40 PM
Zaq, surprised you didn't mention Truenamers, since you seem to be an expert. They are the LOWEST tier of healer, given that they are the lowest tier of anything, ever. LOL!

That's not exactly true, as Zaq himself has illustrated in his guide.

Augmented Lurk
2010-09-29, 07:29 PM
How about a water Shugenja? Or maybe the Shaman from Oriental Adventures?

Zaq
2010-09-29, 08:02 PM
I end up saying this a lot, but it's still true: The truenamer is a reasonably viable albeit still lowish-tier class with minimal houseruling. Either an adjustment to the DC calculation or a +1 per class level to Truenaming checks is enough to render him workable; he won't be hanging with the real full-casters but a truenamer thus adjusted does okay around tier 4 or so.

I wish people would stop spreading this myth. My feelings on this are well-known and I don't want to derail this thread, but really, I had hoped that by now people would start to realize that the stupid DC problem is only the first of many hurdles the Truenamer must face.

Back on topic... actually, a Crusader would fit pretty well in the healer/buffer role if you built for it (White Raven and the healing parts of Devoted Spirit), now that I think about it. They'd have a hard time removing nasty conditions, but they can provide plenty of HP refilling and plenty of melee-centric buffs. Might be a little flashy, though.

Benly
2010-09-29, 08:10 PM
I wish people would stop spreading this myth. My feelings on this are well-known and I don't want to derail this thread, but really, I had hoped that by now people would start to realize that the stupid DC problem is only the first of many hurdles the Truenamer must face.

Back on topic... actually, a Crusader would fit pretty well in the healer/buffer role if you built for it (White Raven and the healing parts of Devoted Spirit), now that I think about it. They'd have a hard time removing nasty conditions, but they can provide plenty of HP refilling and plenty of melee-centric buffs. Might be a little flashy, though.

I don't actually know your feelings on the subject since I basically came here from other gaming MBs relatively recently. The Law of Sequence is a pain in the ass that prevents them from moving up from lowish tier 4, but even with all their problems I don't think they're worse than Marshals once the DC is fixed. Yeah, damning with faint praise, but that's pretty much what low tier 4 is.

(I have in fact played a DC-patched Truenamer in a party with a CW samurai and a Marshal. What can I say, we were screwing around. I will admit that I had forgotten the DM let him be treated as having an arcane caster level equal to his truenaming level for purposes of feat qualification, so he had a familiar, which is nice.)

Person_Man
2010-09-30, 09:00 AM
Healers also get a unicorn mount.

A Celestial Unicorn Animal Companion to be precise, at level 8. It's abilities scale with your levels, or you can pick better companions: Lammasu, Gynosphinx, or Water Naga at 12th level. Or an Androsphinx or Couatl at 16th level. But importantly you can Share Spells with your Companion. Since your 90% of your spells heal, remove negative conditions, or provide defensive buffs, and your Companion can act on it's own (and the improved versions have spells of their own) you become pretty strong and very mobile tank.

That still mires you in Tier 4 territory, and prior to ECL 8+ you suck rocks. But hey, this thread is about low tier healers, after all.

Lhurgyof
2010-09-30, 07:46 PM
A Celestial Unicorn Animal Companion to be precise, at level 8. It's abilities scale with your levels, or you can pick better companions: Lammasu, Gynosphinx, or Water Naga at 12th level. Or an Androsphinx or Couatl at 16th level. But importantly you can Share Spells with your Companion. Since your 90% of your spells heal, remove negative conditions, or provide defensive buffs, and your Companion can act on it's own (and the improved versions have spells of their own) you become pretty strong and very mobile tank.

That still mires you in Tier 4 territory, and prior to ECL 8+ you suck rocks. But hey, this thread is about low tier healers, after all.

Aww, man. The healer is damned cool in that regard. I'm torn between that, a monk staff-fighter, or a knight of cydonia (a la the muse music video) as my next character.

So yes, I'd say healer's the way to go. Especially if you can work with your DM on your spell list, or leave it as is to stay low-teir.