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View Full Version : [3.5] Need Help Evaluating Totemist



Dralnu
2010-09-29, 01:38 PM
I've never played a totemist before, never even opened up MoI, but I'm hosting a game now and someone wants to play one. Since I've never seen one before I allowed it because lots of people seem to like it. I allow all books, LA buyoff, but I mention that I want to avoid cheese.

His first question is whether Goliath's powerful build would work to make his natural attacks one size category bigger. I think by RAW it shouldn't, but if they allow them to wield bigger weapons, sure why not? I allow it.

Second question is if, as a (heart) dragonborn, he can take wings and tail feats beyond first level (it can only be taken at 1st level) but before we start the campaign (it starts at level 5). I think hey, it sounds like just a flavorful reasoning, so I allow it.

Finally he shows that he's a Goliath Dragonborn Mineral Warrior Totemist. At this point I'm getting a little worried, since mineral warrior seems a little OP for its LA (yes, I know the spell XP/gp cost).

So I come to you guys and ask: can someone give me a rundown on the totemist class, and how big of a boost will he be getting with these concessions by me?

Caliphbubba
2010-09-29, 01:48 PM
I'm no expert on Totemists, but I think one of thier main shticks is to get lots and lots of natural attacks through their melds. So if lots and lots of natural attacks that count as large for their base die is a problem, then yeah I think you have one.

I don't remember what Mineral Warrior does...so I can't comment on that.

Dralnu
2010-09-29, 01:50 PM
Mineral Warrior. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) I think it's a little much, personally. I don't know about the rest of the stuff though.

Amphetryon
2010-09-29, 02:04 PM
Wizards left the Totemist class available online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050907a&page=3).

It's a solid Tier 3 class, able to do natural attacks-based combat very well, with a smattering of somewhat useful abilities out of combat thanks to its skill list and the boosts the various binds available can give. You can get a ridiculous number of natural attacks off with it - if memory serves, a dozen isn't difficult - but very few of its abilities boost ranged attacks unless you're specifically geared that way. There are also ways to get those attacks off in the same round as you move, but most of them are somewhat hard to pull off reliably at level 5. If you're the sort of DM comfortable with melee types having a Belt of Battle, the abilities should become more reliable round about the time your players start finding those Belts easy to afford.

The thing to remember is he can't wear a magic item on the same body slot to which he's bound a soulmeld; this serves as a decent limiter to the amount of cheese he can pull off without serious shenanigans.

Mineral Warrior is near the top-end of what a +1 LA should be able to give, in general. Personally, I'd rule that the Mineral Warrior's verbiage would preclude the Dragonborn from giving him wings, but some will probably make an argument against that stance based on fighters having nice things.

Hope this helped.

Person_Man
2010-09-29, 02:18 PM
His first question is whether Goliath's powerful build would work to make his natural attacks one size category bigger. I think by RAW it shouldn't, but if they allow them to wield bigger weapons, sure why not? I allow it.

You are correct that by RAW it doesn't apply. Your houserule seems reasonable, but keep in mind that if he invests in it heavily (and abuses magic or psionics) getting 12d6 claw damage isn't that hard.



Second question is if, as a (heart) dragonborn, he can take wings and tail feats beyond first level (it can only be taken at 1st level) but before we start the campaign (it starts at level 5). I think hey, it sounds like just a flavorful reasoning, so I allow it.

No, by RAW he can't. Heart aspect dragonborn get a breath weapon. There are no feats for them to gain wings or tail. You're probably thinking of the Draconic Wings and Tail feats which require you to be a Kobold. But they're not particularly strong unless you allow him to take the Prehensile Tail feat (Serpent Kingdoms), so again, it's not that big of a deal if you allow it.


Finally he shows that he's a Goliath Dragonborn Mineral Warrior Totemist. At this point I'm getting a little worried, since mineral warrior seems a little OP for its LA (yes, I know the spell XP/gp cost).

Mineral Warrior is one of the stronger LA +1 templates out there. But if other party members are throwing around Tier 1 spells, powers, and infusions, then it's not that big of a deal. Also, essentia capacity is determined by a confusing number of factors - with the most important being hit dice. So taking LA for Goliath and Mineral Warrior slows down his essentia capacity, which directly determine the strength of most soulmelds. But really, however powerful he is, you can always just make more powerful enemies to compensate. Balance is only an issue between party members, so that each one has a niche and something to do.

Dralnu
2010-09-29, 02:25 PM
You can get a ridiculous number of natural attacks off with it - if memory serves, a dozen isn't difficult - but very few of its abilities boost ranged attacks unless you're specifically geared that way..

... Wow. So maybe bumping all his natural attacks up a size category for free might not have been the smartest idea.

I snooped around for a Mineral Warrior "fix" and I think I'll go with PId6's version:
Natural Armor bonus is +2, not +3.
Does not grant burrow speed.
Does not have Charisma penalty.
DR becomes 2/adamantine, not 8/adamantine.

And we'll ignore the XP/gp cost. I'll let him keep the wings.

If he's t3 without extra perks then I don't feel like I should be giving too many handouts. It's not like the rest of the party are specialist conjurors and DMM clerics. The other person so far wants to play a Quasit.

EDIT: Hmm, I guess I'll need to think about it more then. I'm pretty sure that I want to nerf the mineral warrior template, but maybe I'll just leave it at that.