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Simsalabim
2006-06-12, 12:24 PM
Ok, I saw a Warhammer fantasy post, so I got curious. Any play 40k? I have a modest space marines army and a friggin huge space ork army, i am getting my orks all painted in nice regimental colors for the upcoming Dragon Con in Atlanta GA!

BelkarsDagger
2006-06-12, 02:09 PM
I play! So does my brother.

I have a Ultramarines army still in need of an HQ, and a tiny Bad Moonz ork army that still needs to be assembled... so technically I dont play, but I want to. Soon.

My brother has a friggen huge 'Nid army, and a growing Emperors Children army, he dribbled in Tau a few years back, too. He doesnt play either, but he wants to as well.

Ferahgo
2006-06-12, 08:06 PM
Just about to get my first Tau force. Gotta save up the cash for it, so I can actually use all the terrain I've made. ;D

ivanmckilliagin
2006-06-12, 09:31 PM
gah, i have no geld, so i play proxy, but i have decent tactics, and love to play ultra and tau. i liike assault tactic marines, an SJ tau battlesuits.

Sophistemon
2006-06-12, 11:05 PM
Anime-ish battle-suits FTW, eh?

A_Dark_Danish
2006-06-13, 01:13 AM
Omgz. I like the Imperial Guard.

BelkarsDagger
2006-06-13, 01:40 AM
So does my friend. I thought he'd go space marines because he's into the 'the more powerful the better' mindset. Power over numbers any day for him. Yet, he goes IG...

McDeath
2006-06-13, 03:53 AM
I am saving up for a Necron army.

The time of the harvest is upon you. Tremble, mortals, for the Star Gods walk again.

Pagz
2006-06-13, 05:40 AM
i got around 2000 points of chaos, pfft all you guys playing around with space marines and imperial guard... at least your not playing Eldar :P

i beleve more people should play chaos, imt he only one who does in my whole "nerdy" community, and i win with them, so meny people have space marines, only to get cut up by my daemon prince, then they go "wow hes good but im going to stick with my non-warped and sane space marine army" gezz. go chaos

Tau is insane, i get obliterated by shooting, expecially by them, strength 5 weapons with 30 range as troop equiptment, the only thing worthy outside chaos. and battlesuits *shudder*

bah, necrons, nothing a good squad of bloodletters cant fix :P

i wonder if we could work out a way to play a game of 40k in the forum... :D

Maxis_IronForge
2006-06-13, 10:29 AM
Pagz, chill. Sometimes people choose an army for stylistic reasons rather than because they're an arrogant git who wants to pwn everyone.


So does my friend. I thought he'd go space marines because he's into the 'the more powerful the better' mindset. Power over numbers any day for him. Yet, he goes IG...

Perhaps he doesn't like the Space Marines style? Since the days of Rogue Trader (1st edition 40k... I think they're onto 4th now) ended the space marines have been becoming more and more the paladins of the 40k universe, particularly the ultramarines.

Imperial Guard are much more grungy, without being Evil (Tyranids, Chaos, Orks) or Alien (Tau, Eldar, Necros).

Or, on the other hand, maybe he just likes tanks.

Personally I played Eldar and Tyranids. Inhumanly insane Aliens FTW!

Atleast, I did until Gamesworkshop decided their target audience was 10 year olds and stopped providing what I needed, Inqusitor has merit though.

Tekar
2006-06-13, 10:46 AM
I still have some tau lying around from when I was starting to get into the hobby, but that got quickly obliterated with the comming of 4th edition (and the destruction of Tau drones, tough they have been fixed now, too late for me tough) and the insane prises GW dares asking for their pieces of plastic.

Orin_Ironhammer
2006-06-13, 11:02 AM
I have played Vanilla marines for quite some time and just recently got into Tau a year or so back. Tau are funa nd very shooty. But they are a bit weak in comparison to marines overall goodness.

Ork armies are fun to play.

WAAAAAAAAAGH! the Ork!

DeathQuaker
2006-06-13, 12:17 PM
There's a reaaaaally old thread on this somewhere.

I play Witch Hunters, mostly Sisters of Battle. They're tons of fun and I love painting them.

It's fun to play religious fanatics. Sometimes you cleanse the heretics with holy bolter fire and win. Sometimes you get yourself decimated, meaning you've been martyred in the Emperor's name... meaning you still (in the fanatic's mind of course) win. ;)

BelkarsDagger
2006-06-13, 01:34 PM
...the space marines have been becoming more and more the paladins of the 40k universe, particularly the ultramarines.

Yeah, thats kinda why I chose them. I hate paladins in RPGs, but SMs are awsome. I dunno, I guess its just the fearlessness and stubborness that draws me to them... ;D


Or, on the other hand, maybe he just likes tanks.

Yeah, I think thats it XD

ilovefire
2006-06-13, 02:26 PM
heee.... I play IG. I even have all the backstory and stuff for my army... not that it matters, but eh. my IG army uses the following Doctrines, for maximum goodness and awesome: Grenadiers, Light Infantry, Special Equipment (Cameleoline), Restricted Troops (SPecial Weapon Squads), and Restricted Troops (Ogryns). My weapon of choice? Flamers. I likes da flamers. I think I designed a few tanks that were like Hellhounds^2... lemme find that file, and i'll get back to ya.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-06-13, 04:22 PM
While I enjoy most of the armies, I'd say it's a roll of the d4 between:

Space Marines (Platinum Templars specifically, homebrew chapter I created, or the Dark Angels), Tyranids, Tau or Imperial Guard.

Also...40k RULES!

Genome
2006-06-13, 05:49 PM
Iyanden Eldar for the win! I love my impenetrable Wraith units and heavy firepower.
My best friend plays Tau, and I have never lost to him, since my weaknesses are lots of power fists and/or rending.

Perhaps this might be better for the arts and crafts thread, but since it is warhammer...
Here is one of my first 7 or so models, a Warp Spider Exarch.
Front (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/corgenome/0029500b.jpg)
Back (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/corgenome/cc93c258.jpg)

I painted this model shortly thereafter for two painting contests, once again blue since I had experience with it, and I like ice schemes. I won 1st place in one and 2nd in the other. ;D
Click (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/corgenome/Gauntdisplay.png)

Tekar
2006-06-14, 01:29 AM
Nice blending on the tyranid. I never really got the hang of it. I still had this picture (http://users.telenet.be/tom_steynen/ethereal.JPG) of my ethereal lying around and here (http://users.telenet.be/tom_steynen/etherealfirewarrior.gif) with a fire warrior.

BelkarsDagger
2006-06-14, 01:46 AM
I suck at painting, but I love it. Great figures, (^) and (^^).

Crispy Dave
2006-06-14, 08:07 PM
im gonna try to start playin but im broke on free monny because i just bauat a Xbox 360 but i have played the pc game and it is realy cool

Orin_Ironhammer
2006-06-15, 10:48 AM
Better pawn that XBOX 360, its expensive now to paly 40k.
;D

A fair trade wouldbe one painted 2000 point army for an xbox 360.

Beleriphon
2006-06-15, 05:32 PM
I love my Dark Angels army. You can't beat creating squads that can never be broken for the low low cost of 5 points.

Orin_Ironhammer
2006-06-15, 05:44 PM
Ahhh, a DA expert i assume.

Say, have you tried squads of attack bikes???
If so, how do they fair?

Murongo
2006-06-15, 09:27 PM
2500 points of grey knights. Daemonhunters are so godly 150+ games (closer to 200) and I've never outright lost. I've tied, and I've came damn close to losing, but I've never been out and out defeated. And that includes Gamesday and tourney games. /end brag.

Innocence proves nothing!

Ferahgo
2006-06-16, 12:33 AM
There is no such thing as innocence; only degrees of guilt!


...You kept track of how many times you didn't lose?

Oh, and nice paint jobs, Tekar!

Beleriphon
2006-06-16, 08:17 AM
Ahhh, a DA expert i assume.

Say, have you tried squads of attack bikes???
If so, how do they fair?

Fast and tough, they work well instead of using assault marines. I prefer a larger number of units to attack with, thus only marines since it makes it less likely that a lucky round will wipe a unit.

Murongo
2006-06-18, 08:48 AM
There is no such thing as innocence; only degrees of guilt!


...You kept track of how many times you didn't lose?

Oh, and nice paint jobs, Tekar!

Well, not really. Considering I never lost I can't really keep track of how many times I lost now can I?

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-18, 10:26 AM
I play a little; I inherited my friend's rather insane Tyranid army, and I'm building up an Ordo Malleus army of my very own.
It takes me forever because I'm a perfectionist paint-wise, though.

Were-Sandwich
2006-06-18, 03:15 PM
I spent a couple of hundred quid on that game before I realised what a rip off it was and how dodgy GW was, before I gave up and found the miracle that is D&D. I was always better at small unit tactics anyway....

Dr._Weird
2006-06-19, 03:28 PM
I'm definitely thinking of starting playing soon, I just need to choose a faction. I can't decide between the Tyranids, the Eldar, and the Necrons. Any help?

Maxis_IronForge
2006-06-19, 09:01 PM
...my IG army uses the following Doctrines...

Suddenly I feel so old. WTF are doctrines? In a game mechanic sense that is, I understand the word itself.

And hold on, did someone metion there being a new edition SINCE the release of tau? But tau were released WITH a new edition... so very, very old....

Young wipper-snappers today! why in my day I had to walk 15 miles through the snow to find a gamesworkshop. None of this newfangled franchise nonsense you kids are spoilt with...

Zorg
2006-06-20, 02:59 AM
Dude, even I know what doctrines are, and I'm far more curmudgeonly than you ;)

They are for IG units as an army - stuff like better armour or morale, but at a cost of no tanks for example - they came in right at the end of 2nd ed I think. GW also revamped 3rd ed into 3.5 / 4 a few years back.

Oh and I think when we were some of these posters ages there weren't any GW stores in Australia.

Edit: And get back to work slacker!

DeathQuaker
2006-06-21, 09:38 AM
Ahhh, a DA expert i assume.

Say, have you tried squads of attack bikes???
If so, how do they fair?

A friend of mine has a Ravenwing biker list that works very, very effectively. The main thing though is that obviously you will have a smaller army (but one that is very hard to take down). I've found that in fighting him my Witch Hunters army will almost always win scenarios that involve holding quarters or capturing loot, but his Ravenwing fares better in direct assaults.


I'm definitely thinking of starting playing soon, I just need to choose a faction. I can't decide between the Tyranids, the Eldar, and the Necrons. Any help?

Would you like combat superiority and numbers, speed and funky abilities, or... whatever it is that Necrons do besides have Monolith cheese?

Really, balance it between what tactics you think would be best at and which you simply thinks looks coolest/would be the most fun to collect. I largely chose Witch Hunters because I like badass women with swords and guns.

I'll note that if you're interested in modeling painting.... Necrons are the easiest to paint and make look cool. Eldar are gorgeous but can be very detailed so you can burn out painting them (but if you like painting details they can be the way to go). Tyranids are as difficult as you want them to be... but usually there are a LOT of them so keep that in mind when choosing a paint scheme.

Leon
2006-06-21, 10:59 AM
Ive been a Night Lord player since the Chaos Codex first came out.
Have a insanly large amount of Chaos and a fair bit of other stuff

Also like IG, Nids and Orks - Why o Why do i like the horde armies when they cost so much to make

dnitegirl07
2006-06-22, 04:31 PM
I run tyrainids and i love swarming people. ;D
My army has around 1000 points but 40k is really expensive

Zzarchov
2006-06-22, 10:28 PM
Orks and a Genestealer Cult myself. 2k and 1.5k respectively.

Marak_Knight
2006-06-23, 06:25 AM
Imperial Gaurd (Standard list, ive got too much of the restricted stuff to use the doctrines) and Orks, which i can use either as regular or Speed Freaks. Speaking of Speed Freaks you gotta love being able to stick your entire army into the opponants deployment zone on turn 1 (entre truckborne army, give the trucks turbo boosters and red paint jobs and you get a first turn move of between 25" and 31". Bailout rule means you dont suffer many casualties when the trucks get destroyed and now your whole army is right in the middle of the opponants. ;D)

Beleriphon
2006-06-23, 08:29 AM
Gotta love orks, the only army in the galaxy whose stuff gets faster by painting it a different colour. Plus they have some of the funkiest stuff ever for gear. A buddy of mine converted a land raider in an ork fighting bar. It was basically a captured land raider that he did up with the interior like an orkish tavern.

Traveling_Angel
2006-06-24, 11:17 PM
Correction: The SM think of themselfs as the pallys off the galaxy. In reality, they are much more LN then LG. Simply put they think all the aliens are out to get them. When the Tau come and offer an allaiance, what do the SM do? accect? hell no it's like this

Tau: "How about you work with us to rid and protect us from the dangers of the warp and world?"

SM: "You'll backstap us! die tratiors!"[proceeds to open fire]

NO way that is good. And the Inqusiton? "So why do we practicaly worship the Emperor?" "Heritic! die!" yea, thats LE.

wana learn how to act paranoid? read SM fluff. That is paranoia to the max.

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 01:29 AM
wana learn how to act paranoid? read SM fluff. That is paranoia to the max.

In a universe where everybody, everything, and anything is out to destroy you it helps to be paranoid. Besides, space marines are the lesser of thousands of many worse evils. Its sort of what gives 40K its grim and gothic atmosphere. I mean have you never noticed the similarities between 40K and the society of 15th and 16th century Europe?

Marak_Knight
2006-06-25, 11:31 AM
You mean the rampant paranoia, insane amount of backstabbing and the fact that just about everyone has something they want to hide from everyone else?

Beleriphon
2006-06-25, 11:59 AM
You mean the rampant paranoia, insane amount of backstabbing and the fact that just about everyone has something they want to hide from everyone else?


That would be it.

Marak_Knight
2006-06-26, 09:58 AM
Thought so. Got to love a regime where no matter what you think someone somewhere wants to kill you for it. ;D

Debasier
2006-06-26, 07:14 PM
I've wanted to get into WH 40k, but the cost is kinda daunting. Plus you have to paint the figures, which I know wouldn't be good at. It looks rewarding, but tough. What I really want to sink my teeth into is the architecture of this game. Some of the stuff made from household junk looks INSANE.

I wish I had a job. Money ftw.

Dr._Weird
2006-06-26, 08:15 PM
I'm not into this yet, but I've painted a few WH Fantasy miniatures before for fun, and it's much less hard then it looks.

DeathQuaker
2006-06-26, 09:53 PM
I've wanted to get into WH 40k, but the cost is kinda daunting. Plus you have to paint the figures, which I know wouldn't be good at. It looks rewarding, but tough. What I really want to sink my teeth into is the architecture of this game. Some of the stuff made from household junk looks INSANE.

I wish I had a job. Money ftw.

The cost is daunting and this is not a hobby you want to get into unless you've the time and funds.

BUT there are ways to get figs for pretty cheap... check ebay, and often the more die-hard hobbyists will sell one of their old spare armies for cheap (I started my army because one guy decided he didn't want to collect Sisters of Battle after all... I think I got at least 1000 points of metal models for about $75).

I LOVE the painting aspect and it's a lot of why I got into it... but I also paint a lot of my friends' stuff... so you don't _have_ to paint your own (or you can buy painted armies off Ebay or the like). And you also don't _have_ to paint the models at all if you're not planning to play in tourneys. If you do want other people to paint them, you usually do have to pay for it though.

eggy_goodness
2006-06-27, 02:11 PM
well said, I was going to get a Tau army, but the cost and time commitment was too daunting.

Krytha
2006-06-28, 06:31 PM
I always thought Warhammer 40k was the coolest thing ever. My friend and I agreed that if we were ever millionaires, we would buy complete armies (one of each), hire someone to paint them for us and then muck around.

Beleriphon
2006-06-28, 10:04 PM
I always thought Warhammer 40k was the coolest thing ever. My friend and I agreed that if we were ever millionaires, we would buy complete armies (one of each), hire someone to paint them for us and then muck around.


For awhile GW was offering a complete painted to your specs space marine chapter, thats 1000+ marines, all support vehicles, everything, for the low low cost of 7000 pounds sterling.

Krytha
2006-06-29, 01:37 AM
For awhile GW was offering a complete painted to your specs space marine chapter, thats 1000+ marines, all support vehicles, everything, for the low low cost of 7000 pounds sterling.

Alas, I am not yet the millionaire I had hoped to be by the age of 20...

Platinum_Mongoose
2006-07-02, 03:03 PM
Anyone playing in Medusa V this summer/winter (depending on your hemisphere)?

Any 'nids? Wanna strategize?
There's a secure forum here http://bcedev.com/MedusaV/index.php for strategy. It's kinda dead-ish, and I'm the only 'nid player on it at the moment. Could use someone to share tactics with.

Soniku
2006-07-02, 05:37 PM
I have a few thousand points of marines, my own chapter: Flame Vipers. You would never think a colour scheme of earthy tones would work on superhuman soldiers, tanks and dreadnoughts, but hey, you gotta see it to beleve it :P

I have my own backstory and love the way the newest codex gives you options to add flavor to your army (true grit and infiltration on all marines! yay) and also give penaltys (because on a densly jungled planet, how would the marines train fast attack?) Very fun.

Farmino
2006-07-02, 06:59 PM
at least your not playing Eldar
Um, wtf was that for? I play Chaos and eldar, they both kick ass. First Eldar hater I've ever seen.

Matthew
2006-07-02, 08:04 PM
Space Orks are the race that really get on my nerves... however, I've heard that the Eldar are due to be written out of 40K as we rapidly approach the 42nd Millennium and Fifth Edition; I can't prove it, though.

I would be sorry to see the departure of the Eldar. I wouldn't be sorry to see the departure of the Space Orks any more than I was to see the Ogryns, Squats and Ratlings virtually lost to the void. At least the Eldar have got a decent backstory.

Krytha
2006-07-02, 10:52 PM
Whhyyy would they get rid of the eldar who are SO COOL?!

Matthew
2006-07-02, 10:55 PM
No idea, just a rumour I heard... only half remembered at that. I can't find anything about it on the Web, but I suppose that is to be expected. Quite irritating, actually, I can't remember where I heard it.

Krytha
2006-07-02, 11:39 PM
I don't know if I could trust something so random like that. THe Eldar are quite developed as a race so it makes no sense to throw all of that away.

Beleriphon
2006-07-03, 12:31 AM
Space Orks are the race that really get on my nerves... however, I've heard that the Eldar are due to be written out of 40K as we rapidly approach the 42nd Millennium and Fifth Edition; I can't prove it, though.


Everybody loves orks, with their broken gothic, and their looted vehicles! And a total lack of a worthwhile shooting phase. Whats not to love with masses, upon masses of greenskins over running your positions.

Matthew
2006-07-03, 01:54 AM
I don't know if I could trust something so random like that. THe Eldar are quite developed as a race so it makes no sense to throw all of that away.

Fair enough, I doubt I would trust it either; let's just hope they don't get written out, but if they do you heard it here first...




Everybody loves orks, with their broken gothic, and their looted vehicles! And a total lack of a worthwhile shooting phase. Whats not to love with masses, upon masses of greenskins over running your positions.

Hmmmn. I suppose it's doubtful that I could persuade you otherwise, but I hate them, with their stupid Waaarggh, Snotlings, Gargants, Battle Wagons, Boyz, Pseudo Barbarism... They almost ruin my suspension of disbelief, a usually difficult proposition.

Still, they were the first written encounter in 40k, 'Battle at the Farm', so they have that going for them, I suppose. Just, so many better features to 40k.

[Edit] Beleriphon, is your Superman Avatar a permanent change? I liked that little Greek Hoplite guy...

Were-Sandwich
2006-07-03, 11:53 AM
Has anyone else noticed GW's tendency to make the newest stuff more powerful than the old stuff so people will buy it. Take the Tau, they can outshoot the IG from much further away for only a few points more.
Also, the necrons, they are just as good as SM, but they have better guns and that super broken self-repair, all for just 3pts extra? And don't try and justify it with phase-out, its impossible to kill enough of them and keep 'em dead long enough to get to that point.

Its the same in most GW games.

Matthew
2006-07-03, 02:03 PM
That's always been the way with Games Workshop. Just wait a while and they will update the Imperial Guard and Space Marine rules so that they once again outclass their foes. It's a business... and a successful one

Beleriphon
2006-07-03, 02:04 PM
[Edit] Beleriphon, is your Superman Avatar a permanent change? I liked that little Greek Hoplite guy...

Don't think so, I just changed it because I saw the new movie. I'll probably change it back after awhile.

BayneNothos
2006-08-27, 10:54 AM
2000 pts world eaters army for me ( khornate chaos for the noobs). all u peeps who say u never loose r kidding urselves or r playin 6 yo's. and on tau's awesome firepower, i've seen 10 guardsmen rip through a tau army in close combat, tau can't fight up close, its what balances them out to the rest of the army lists

Crazy Owl
2006-08-27, 12:20 PM
Thats what they have Kroot for and I really don't think 10 Guardsmen can do that seeing as they suck in close combat just as much as Tau.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-08-27, 07:19 PM
That must have been some insane rolling, because Guardsmen aren't really all that good in close combat, their only advantage over the Tau in that situation is numbers. Are you thinking Space Marines? A proper Assault Squad could easily tear through Tau in melee, but not Guardsmen...

Imperial Guardsmen have a better WS score, but they're equal in strength and attacks and the Tau have better morale and FAR better armour. Given this, I think it's likely that your average Fire Warrior Team could defeat an equal number of guardsmen in close combat.

Crazy Owl
2006-08-29, 03:34 AM
An army of Tau has got to have at least one battlesuit squad and that woud just massacre guardsmen.

Were-Sandwich
2006-08-29, 11:55 AM
You've never seen Tau played like Luke plays them, i.e. cheating. I've never played against him, but I've watched him. He pays no attention to Army Building rules. His battlesuits have about six weapons a-piece, and fire them all at the same time. His Hammerheads have about 8 guns, and guess what, they all fire at the same time. Same goes for the Fire WArriors, the kroot and the Vespid. And seeing as most of my gaming club is about 9 years old, noone ever calls him on it. I would, but its fun to watch 800pts of Tau wipe the floor with 3000pts of 'nids.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-08-29, 01:04 PM
No one...ever...calls him....

That's completely breaking the rules of Army Building! Wtf!!!

Were-Sandwich
2006-08-29, 01:27 PM
Like I said, mostly 9 year olds. He's about 22. They don't think anythings wrong. Well, they've grown up o GW, so they can't comprehend the idea of balance.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-08-29, 03:13 PM
I'd call him in an instant if he dared to do such a thing.

Crazy Owl
2006-08-29, 03:49 PM
Do you play at a store? If you do the staff notice stuff like that in seconds.

Were-Sandwich
2006-08-30, 05:31 AM
No, at a club.

Sophistemon
2006-08-30, 05:35 PM
Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/tau-army-all-primed-white-with-hammer-head-tank_W0QQitemZ280022170030QQihZ018QQcategoryZ44124 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) a good buy? I'm looking into getting into the game, and I don't want to have to spend a ton of money, so I figured... Ebay!

Crazy Owl
2006-08-30, 05:57 PM
Yeah you save a bit of money but making your models is half the fun of GW. Too lazy to work out it out in dollars but I think youll save about 30.

Sophistemon
2006-08-30, 06:05 PM
Cool. How about this one? (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200022310441&fromMakeT rack=true) A bit more expensive, but...

Which of the two would you suggest?

Saithis Bladewing
2006-08-30, 06:12 PM
More expensive, but damn if you wouldn't save a TON of money. If you got that for 40 you'd be saving at least 60 if you had just purchased each unit individually from the store.

Crazy Owl
2006-08-30, 06:16 PM
Plus on the second one the models are quite well painted.

Sophistemon
2006-08-30, 06:20 PM
So... the second one, then?

Yeah, I've wanted to get into this game for a long time. Dawn of War is not enough.

Crazy Owl
2006-08-30, 06:29 PM
I think it will be with the next expansion. Metamaps should add a lot of replay value.

Sophistemon
2006-08-30, 06:32 PM
Hmm. Maybe I'll wait... it's not as though people will stop selling 40K figures on Ebay in the foreseeable future...

Crazy Owl
2006-08-30, 06:35 PM
Good luck on your bid. Would be shame after all this just to get outbidded last minute.

Sophistemon
2006-08-30, 06:52 PM
I still have three days; I'll think about it some more.

DarkSetzer
2006-08-30, 08:04 PM
I have been looking into playing 40-k for a while now after I was introduced to it by a friend...

I have yet to actually learn the rules and play the game, but I have started to build an army... Necron to be specific. I have the codex and a basic army, im just working on painting it and expanding it now. After that I plan on learning the rules and actually playing...

I love the history behind the necrons, not to mention their abilities. (Granted, I may not understand all of them... But I understand what a good deal of their abilities mean...)

Bryn
2006-08-31, 07:32 AM
I am also a 40K player (who would have guessed, with my avatar?)

I currently have about 2300 points of Space Marines, with the intention of getting an Imperial Guard army once I have filled up the Force Organisation Chart (not compulsory, but I want to!)

I enjoy reading and writing background (Xenology was good), and I also play when I can, usually against a Tyranid player and an Ork player (but also against Necrons, Chaos and Tau not quite as often).

Diakos
2006-08-31, 03:03 PM
I am putting together a thousand sons army, but it's currently ground to a halt since im saving for a bigger computer

Bryn
2006-09-02, 03:04 PM
Re-reading the thread, I just noticed the bit on Eldar being written out.

Personally, I find that rather unlikely, mainly due to the large numbers of previews on the new Eldar codex thats coming out pretty soon. This is accompanied by various rather nice looking models (like the new Wraithlord), and it would make no sense to write them out now.
In any case, I don't think GW will write out any armies now, they've changed since the Squats... Imagine how much the Eldar players would complain, and how much it would hurt their profits!
Just my 2 pence.

[Does the 3-post rule apply in this forum? If so, sorry for breaking it]

The Glyphstone
2006-09-03, 08:18 AM
2000 pts world eaters army for me ( khornate chaos for the noobs). all u peeps who say u never loose r kidding urselves or r playin 6 yo's. and on tau's awesome firepower, i've seen 10 guardsmen rip through a tau army in close combat, tau can't fight up close, its what balances them out to the rest of the army lists

The grammar....oh, the grammar.....

10 guardsman killing an entire Tau army is possible. It's also possible for one Tzeentch Thousand Sons Marine to win a shooting match with Eldar - i.e., a freak coincidence.

Also....why does Tau in close combat matter for their firepower? The point of all that boomity they have is to stop anyone from getting close, or wear them out to the point where the Kroot can handle it. Works sometimes, not always (coughMarinescough). If 10 guardsmen killed an entire Tau army in Close Combat, then:
A) The Guard player was cheating/using loaded dice. And loading the Tau player's dice too, the other way.
B) The "tau army" was, like, 1 Fire Warrior.
C) The controller of the Tau army was a quadreplegic retarded orangutan.
or
D) The once-in-a-million-centuries cooincidence I mentioned above.

Sophistemon
2006-09-03, 11:22 AM
C) The controller of the Tau army was a quadriplegic retarded orangutan.
Hey, my second cousin is a quadriplegic mentally-challenged orangutan. He wouldn't appreciate you calling him retarded.

Also, even though you probably already know this (this applies to everyone) the Dawn of War: Dark Crusade demo is out! It can be downloaded here. (http://files.filefront.com/Warhammer+Dawn+of+War+++Dark+Crusade+Demo/;5467596;;/fileinfo.html) It puts an incomplete Tau army (some units cannot be built) against an equally hindered Blood Ravens army. If you don't have the game, I can tell you what I noticed, but it could be considered spoilers.

JellyPooga
2006-09-03, 11:24 AM
When I saw the Imperial Guard Codex with all the doctrines and that in I had a flash of inspirstion - an entirely Ogryn army!!

The basic troops were Ogryns
Special troops : Ogryn Paratroopers* (No parachutes - damage to both them and whoever they land on)
Elite troops: Ogyn Tankbuster Paratroops* (Same as Ogryn Paratroopers but with spiky helmets on - they aim head first for tanks. If they survive, they beat up any crew and try to take control of it)
Vehicles: Ogryn Rocket Sled (its a big metal box that will fit a squad of ogryn in. It's got a big red button inside labeled "Go", which when pressed activates the large rocket attached to the back - It only stops when it hits something significant or runs out of fuel. You just have to hope they were pointing in the direction of the battlefield when they hit go...)
Special Character: Master Blaster - a Ratling Commisar (Master) who rides on the back his Ogryn bodyguard (Blaster) (Mad Max 3 anyone?)

My mate and I had a lot of fun thinking up all sorts of silly things for it...never did write out any of the rules though...

(* We had visions of a diorama with an Imperial Guard tank (of some description) being attacked by Ogryn Paratroops - one of the ogryn buried in the ground with only his legs showing, another sprawled out on the other side of the tank. a huge hole in the roof of the tank with crew scrambling to get out, whilst inside are two Ogryn fighting over who gets to drive.)

Crazy Owl
2006-09-03, 02:32 PM
I was a bit disapointed with the Tau for Dark Crusade. Well they did block some the things I wanted to try out like Knarlocs and Broadsides but the fire warriors and commander were a lot differant to what I was hoping and I expexected squads of battlesuits not a single one by istself. If Necrons aren't too good I guess ill just have stick with old reliable Chaos.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-03, 02:42 PM
The necrons will be so overpowered in DoW:DC because of the Resseruction Orb... and the nec's will probably be able to gain resources by munching on corpses.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-03, 02:43 PM
Isn't the big deal they are making about Necron is that they won't use resources and have a completely new system?

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-03, 02:47 PM
...excuse me? :o

Crazy Owl
2006-09-03, 03:30 PM
Nearly any review I see of Dark Crusade says something about Necrons not using resources and have their own system like how the Orcs work slightly differantly but a lot more differant.

edit: found one.
Reviews

Manufacturer's Description
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Dark Crusade will feature two new playable races, the Tau Empire and the Necrons, bringing the number of totally unique races to an unprecedented seven. In addition to the two new playable races, Dark Crusade will feature an all-new single player campaign centering on the conquest of a "meta-map," with each territory captured giving tangible rewards to the occupying force. A greatly expanded multiplayer component and a completely unique economy model for the Necrons will present gamers with the most compelling Dawn of War game to-date.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-03, 03:40 PM
:o

I wonder how that'll work then... probably with power plants* or crystals or something.

*by this I mean the Westwood style where buildings use power and they shut down if the power isnt sufficent.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-03, 03:43 PM
In another I read but can't find it said it had a lot to do with getting a monolith active. Either they just meant like how Space Marines get the land raider and stuff or I think monolith will be like a moving building that can fight and create units or something like that at least.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-03, 07:02 PM
Yeah, their stronghold/starting building can be upgraded a number of times, and the final upgrade makes it mobile, and turns it into a monolith.

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-03, 07:29 PM
Which reminds me, I finished downloading the DC demo, I guess I'll go check it out...

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-03, 07:34 PM
The DC demo won't work on my computer. Know why? It wants no less than 1.2gb free on my C:\ drive...regardless of where I install it.

I only use a 2gb C:\ drive. Windows takes up a little over half that.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-04, 02:31 AM
Yeah, their stronghold/starting building can be upgraded a number of times, and the final upgrade makes it mobile, and turns it into a monolith.

Now that sounds like fun. I wonder if it can fight while its stationary. Probably not with the Particle whip but the side guns might still work.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-04, 02:32 AM
Yeah... either you can invest in more troops or work towards the final apocolyptic warmachine.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-04, 04:07 AM
And why not both like with all the other armies?

Tarnag40k
2006-09-04, 10:37 AM
DAMN IT WHY DIDN'T I HEAR ABOUT THIS!

actually i have both and am very interested in how the Necrons and tau will play

and in other stuf i felt that the imperial guard was very poorly done, not that they are a bad race to play in it, just that the number of infantry to be able to be fielded isn't much more then the spacemarines for their size, I've seen plenty of 100+ easy imperial guard armie's at 1,500pt and yet this allowed you to barely get to there, and the fact that they made guardsmen almost as powerfull as a spacemarine in the game as far as hitpoints.*

*note I haven't played it in about 4 months so don't flame me for any inaccuracies, I am drawing from my memory as I need to reinstall it and am too lazy to.





(* We had visions of a diorama with an Imperial Guard tank (of some description) being attacked by Ogryn Paratroops - one of the ogryn buried in the ground with only his legs showing, another sprawled out on the other side of the tank. a huge hole in the roof of the tank with crew scrambling to get out, whilst inside are two Ogryn fighting over who gets to drive.)

that's as good as the coffe break idea i once had

basically it started from a comment by a friend of mine's younger brother after seeing this model.


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/tautcstore.jpg


it's a fricken donut!

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-04, 10:54 AM
You should see some of the dioramas the guy who runs the club I go to has made. They include:
A space wolf doing a snow angel
Santa as a Space Marine, on a Landspeeder made to look like a sleigh, pulled by reindeer
Some Orks and Space Marines playing 40K against each other, complete with dice, templates, and rulebooks
Fart lighting Gretchin cannon
I'll try and find pictures if I can. They're hilarious

JellyPooga
2006-09-04, 10:56 AM
Tee Hee ;D

You've gotta love some of GW's models and the things that some of them look like they're doing

Crazy Owl
2006-09-04, 11:53 AM
DAMN IT WHY DIDN'T I HEAR ABOUT THIS!

actually i have both and am very interested in how the Necrons and tau will play

and in other stuf i felt that the imperial guard was very poorly done, not that they are a bad race to play in it, just that the number of infantry to be able to be fielded isn't much more then the spacemarines for their size, I've seen plenty of 100+ easy imperial guard armie's at 1,500pt and yet this allowed you to barely get to there, and the fact that they made guardsmen almost as powerfull as a spacemarine in the game as far as hitpoints.*

*note I haven't played it in about 4 months so don't flame me for any inaccuracies, I am drawing from my memory as I need to reinstall it and am too lazy to.



I felt that they really wanted IG to be tank based in this. They had some of the best in the game like Baneblade, Leman Russ, and Basilisks.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-04, 02:06 PM
And why not both like with all the other armies?


Because Necrons are -apparently- so goddamn powerful that they're going to have to be either really slow or really expensive. Or both. Therefor, you simply wont have the resources to do both.

Gyrfalcon
2006-09-04, 11:02 PM
Keeping the thread on the games (which I at least know something about), I had a weird experience with the latest demo. Skirmishing against the computer and I had kept control or kept both relics neutral the entire game, though the space marines did attack one and take it back to neutral before I drove them off. Well, that's fine, no problem, retook it and replaced the defense outpost.

Two minutes later, I was being hammered by orbital bombardments and orbital drops of terminators and dreadnaughts. What gives? I figure it was just a bug, but it was annoying that the computer didn't have to worry about relics anymore.

Sophistemon
2006-09-05, 06:44 PM
Are you talking about battle 2? Yeah, they don't need relics for the bombardment. To stop it, take control of the strategic point on the middle right of the map. Then you can use their own orbital cannons against them.

Gyrfalcon
2006-09-05, 08:32 PM
Nah, this was Battle 1, the Skirmish.

Battle 2, clearing the center strategic point gets rid of the whirlwind artillary tanks that are set to bombard your paths out of the base, so that's worthwhile, but the orbital control is the right-most control point.

It is fun to break up a major attack with their own warship's bombardment...

Sophistemon
2006-09-05, 08:44 PM
It is fun to break up a major attack with their own warship's bombardment...
I wholeheartedly agree.

Lord_Arkaine
2006-09-09, 01:59 AM
I liked to field a number of Chaos guys, namely the big bad ones. Had a pretty nice 5000 pointer that included three of the big shot uniques but I didn't record it. This one I did, and it made up both a normal army and the idea behind one of my regiments. I hope this is the latest version, I keep four copies and forgot my labeling scheme...

Army/Race: The Black Legion (Chaos Space Marines)

Chaos Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch - Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Aura, Daemonic Essence, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Master Crafted Pistol, Familiar, Wind of Chaos, Bolt of Change
- 4 Chaos Sorcerers - Mark of Tzeentch, Familiar, Doombolt, Bolt of Change, Pistol, Tzeentch Icon

Bloodthirster - Daemonic Visage, Living Icon, Daemonic Flight, Khornate Frenzy

4 Black Legion - Mark of Chaos Undivided, 2 Bolters, Meltagun, Lascannon, Icon of Chaos, Counter Attack
- Demon Champion - Mark of Chaos Undivided, Demon Vessel, Master Crafted Power Weapon, Pistol, Melta-Bombs, Counter Attack, Daemonic Aura, Daemon Chains, Daemonic Fire, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage

4 Thousand Sons - Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Essence, Rubric Sign, Tzeentch Icon, Bolters, Troop
- Chaos Sorcerer - Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Dreadaxe, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Wind of Chaos

5 Berserkers - Mark of Khorne, Furious Charge, Chainaxes, Bolt Pistols, Khornate Icon
- Khorne Champion - Mark of Khorne, Daemonic Mutation, Furious Charge, Axe of Khorne, Feel no Pain, Collar of Khorne, Rage of Khorne

4 Black Havocs - Mark of Chaos Undivided, Tank Hunters, Autocannon, Missile Launcher, 2 Heavy Bolters, Icon of Chaos
- Havoc Champion - Mark of Chaos Undivided, Tank Hunters, Daemonic Mutation, Powerfist, Bolt Pistol, Krak Grenades

GRAND TOTAL 1500

Sir_Dude
2006-09-09, 02:46 AM
Well we all know Chaos is ridiculous. Just compare their point costs to normal spacemarines, its almost always less for the same. Drove me nuts reading that codex.

Speaking of big baddies for chaos, funniest thing I've ever seen done was my friends Chaos army. It was a Demon Prince and then just enough troops to make it an army. His Prince was half the army by himself. Not to mention it played like Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors (the source of the joke was the fact it was using that Khrone glaive, don't know what its called not a chaos player.) He sent it charging into an entire army of Tyranids and took about 200+ attacks before dying, and took many of the nids with him. Horrible abuse of the chaos upgrades.

Me, I'll play whatever since I don't have enough money to afford a decent army, so I just play with proxys with my friends.

Oh and I totally agree with you about the IG in Dawn of War. Unfortuantly someone forgot game ballance in that game and its nearly impossible early game to beat SM with guards because you can practically produce only 1.5 the number of guardsmen as they can make marines. And they get bolters. Probably the funniest thing I thought about the way they did guards was their choice to make the Leman Russ, the iconic IG tank, an end game unit. All in all I love to play the guards, I'm just getting really fed up with all the noobs who choose SM or even Chaos just because they're statistically better.

Lord_Arkaine
2006-09-09, 03:00 AM
I am also low on cash myself. Not because I'm poor or have a crummy job, but because I run multiple MMO accounts, play four CCGs, buy nearly every D&D book, and still have to find money for tabletop games. Oh yeah, and sometimes food.

So I learned the rules, played a few practice matches, then picked up chaos because it is one the easiest armies to play with the bare minimum in pieces. You can stack so many upgrades on Chaos Terminators (which I personally don't use....) that you can field a very small army for about $100-200 bucks. You're basically set after that. I spend more money than that per month on Magic alone, and this is a one time fee.

Another possibility is to buy the big chaos box. I don't know what it's actually called, but it has a good assortment of various chaos units, including troops, havocs, and bikers. You buy that (about 60-80 bucks) and a single daemon prince (another 20?) and you have yourself an army. Go upgrade crazy.

The_Guo
2006-09-14, 06:27 PM
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/acceptance.jpg

Sorry, just had too.

With that said Space Marines player here (Flesh Tearers). Also, gotta love the WH40K fluff, thats what makes WH40K 40K.

Venerate the Emporer! For the Imperium!

Good stuff.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-16, 06:04 AM
Well we all know Chaos is ridiculous. Just compare their point costs to normal spacemarines, its almost always less for the same. Drove me nuts reading that codex.


I don't believe CSM benefit from 'And They Shall Know No Fear...', though I could be wrong. I'd have to double check. It's possible they're just trying to encourage people to try and play something that's not Space Marines. :P

Just looked through it and I'm not seeing anything that even mentions the 'And They Shall Know No Fear' or 'Deep Strike' rules, so I'm gonna go with that being the reason why they have a slightly lower points cost for the same stats.

Pilum
2006-09-16, 07:00 AM
It's possible they're just trying to encourage people to try and play something that's not Space Marines. :P

There's a fairly obvious flaw in that argument though... :) I seriously can't remember the last time I saw any mutants, Traitor Guard or whatever on the tabletop. Makes you wonder why the Imperium gets so hot and bothered about Chaos if the only practitioners are a few 10,000-year-old lunatics who can't accept defeat. ;)

Sophistemon
2006-09-16, 11:33 AM
Maybe because the traitor-legions are the reason the Imperium is a horrible, horrible place to live?

JellyPooga
2006-09-16, 11:45 AM
The Imperium is a horrible-horrible place to live because it's ruled by a bunch of fanatics who can barely tell the difference between living your life and ULTIMATE EVIL!!

The Emperor demands live sacrifices, the Inquisition aparrently has no morals. The Space Marines are just weird (have you ever read any of the fluff behind them and their initiation rites?). About the most normal thing about the Imperium is the Imperial Guard and even they don't help life because they use conscription and then there's the taxes and other impositions that the Imperium imposes on every aspect of everyone's life - hmm yeah, the Traitor Legions are really the reason why the Imperium is a horrible place to live...

Me and my mates came up with the idea that the Imperium were the bad guys, the Traitor Legions were just rebels, Orks were an anarchist nation, the Eldar were basically the equivalent of what Britain is today (i.e. they're there and are given respect for their past achievements, but they're not really all that important) and that the only good guys really were the Tyranids - because at least they didn't have any prejudice. (this was a conversation before the Necrons and Tau even existed btw)

If I lived in the 40k universe, I'd much rather live somewhere far-far away from anything that ever happens. Preferably on the very edge of the galaxy...I might just get a chance of living a normal life.

Anyway, I've had my rant so I'll shut up.

Wehrkind
2006-09-16, 12:20 PM
Eh, you are pretty much SOL no matter what. The whole universe is designed to not have "good guys" as we would recognize them, so much the better to foster eternal war. What is lacks in philosophic empathy it attempts to make up for with "Wow, this race is cool and fun." Whether or not it really balances... that is probably the dividing line between whether people like to play and read about it, other than the money issue of course.

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-16, 02:27 PM
Or you could just accept the fact that all GW's worlds are all gloomy and dark, for some arbritary reason.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-16, 02:30 PM
The whole universe is designed to not have "good guys" as we would recognize them, so much the better to foster eternal war.

Right... the Tau are the "Closest thing to good guys in the WH40K Universe."

I always thought the Imperials were the 'good guys' up until I saw that quote.

The_Guo
2006-09-16, 02:39 PM
Hey, the imperium is just doing what it needs to survive. If the guy next to you could be an untrained psyker who could be used by daemons as a gateway to your world would you not like having an inquisitor come and blow torch that guy?

And sure they sacrifice thousands to the immortal emporer everyday, but that keeps their space ships navigating the warp, without that (and the becon it makes) warp travel would not work.

And Space Marines are in no way a reflection of the imperium, they are autonomis, only their respect towards the emporer keeps them as benifitial to the imperium (that and the fact they love to kill the alien scum).

Crazy Owl
2006-09-16, 04:04 PM
No good guys, what about the sisters of battle and Grey Knights, the Inquisitors are corrupted easilly but I have never heard of any Knight or Sister go bad. As for the rest of the imperium yeah corrupt, evil, noisy neighbours. I think the whole thing could be solved if the imperium stopped being so rascist. Make allies with the Tau and Eldar hooray youve already got better technology combined with your already ass-kicking soldiers to use it.

Krytha
2006-09-16, 07:36 PM
If the Imperium of man, the eldar and the tau all united, warhammer would be over. The orks can never get organized, chaos would go down in a huge blaze of glory and everyone else would be slowly eradicated. Then if you had warhammer after that your only army choices would be tau eldar or human...

Constant conflict means never ending money to GW!

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-16, 07:57 PM
I've decided that the Imperials are Lawful Neutral with evil tendancies. The Tau... hmm... are they chaotic or lawful? I'm guessing Lawful Neutral with Good tendancies... but I'm not sure.

Well, here I am. Arguing about what D&D-alignment the WH40K races are... my journey to the Geek side of the Force is complete.

the_tick_rules
2006-09-16, 10:32 PM
Here's my theories, feel free to dismantle at your leisure.

Imperials: LN they follow their own code and obey it very strictly.

Tau: LG they have that paladin like zealousness about saving the universe.

Eldar: NG They seem want to make the universe a better place but not going so far to reach out to others excessively.. (this one i'm especially unsure about, there's many other ones that could work.)

Chaos: CE as if there was doubt

Tyranids. N they're just hunger. whoever is not them is breakfast with no moral considerations.

Orks. CE this one seems pretty easy to.

Nekrons. LE they just seem like bad folk.

Krytha
2006-09-17, 01:29 AM
Tau: Doesn't the paladin zeal make them more chaotic? They're pretty successful at converting planets to the Greater Good but it still feels like "Join our cause or prepare for annihilation."

Tyranids: The lower organisms may just be creatures that follow their gut instinct, but the upper echelons have more advanced intellect I think? If they realize that thet are stepping on toes everywhere in order to feed does that make them CE? Or just really hungry?

Eldar: I read somewhere that they tried to warn the Emperor of impending doom - but were ignored. They seem like they're just trying to stay alive most of the time so I say LG.

Dark Eldar: CF-ingE

Crazy Owl
2006-09-17, 04:51 AM
I think Nids should Chaotic Neutral because they are constantly changeing and evolving.

ivanmckilliagin
2006-09-17, 06:38 AM
Tau are easily CG.

Easily.

They follow what they feel, giving up of themselves willing to help everyone lese around them. Not because they HAVE GOT TO, but because they really want to.

Of course, this is all because of the Aun'O brain control. Look at Farsight, and i rest my case.

Falkus
2006-09-17, 09:51 AM
"Join our cause or prepare for annihilation."

Actually, by the fluff, the Tau don't attack planets that refuse to sign up unless they launch an attack first.


Look at Farsight, and i rest my case.

What about him? There's no solid evidence as to why he's doing what he's doing. It's all just speculation.

ivanmckilliagin
2006-09-17, 09:54 AM
I jsut mean that it was only AFTER his Aun'O took a hit and droppedthat he began his rebellion, and the fluff about the beginning of the Tau empire says that a pair of Aun'O stopped an ongoing seige with only a night of talking.

Brain control i say!

JellyPooga
2006-09-17, 12:48 PM
Orks definitely are not CE (except the chaos ones). They just want a good time - just because having a fight is what they consider a 'good time' doesn't make them evil per say (any more so than a barbarian in d&d anyway)

Sophistemon
2006-09-17, 01:10 PM
Sooo, uh. Take a look at this. (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=108097)

Looks like fun, eh?

Gamerofthegame
2006-09-17, 09:48 PM
Imperial Guard- NE. Yes, Neutral. Evil. They are selfish, they are the ultimate demoral humans. Least the ones in charge.

Space Marines- I'd say NG, cause in the long run they will help allies and purge enemies. They will fight for their brothers and save one another, Ultimate moral humans to a extent.

Tau- I'd say a Paladin zeal... CG. Really no way to explain this... They just are.

Necrons- None. They don't really have feelings, they purge all life. They are machines.

Eldar- CN. They'd help people, but mostly they are in it for themselves I beleive.

Dark Eldar- CE. They care for no one else at all, even putting others in despair for their own regards and enjoyment.

Orks- CE. However, they were really for the most part born evil, Are evil, constantly. One of those things.

Nids- TN. They are in essence the ultimate pack of Lions, going about and feeding ect.

Chaos- LN/LE. Yeah, Lawful Neutral & Lawful Evil. They are out to purge the imperialum, Sure they may work/are demons... But for the most part, I think they were forced that way for the Imperialium.


In the long run, I really think the only "Good" guys are Tau, Eldar, and beleive it or not, Chaos. That being said, Tau are the best.

Krytha
2006-09-18, 02:06 AM
Imperial Guard- NE. Yes, Neutral. Evil. They are selfish, they are the ultimate demoral humans. Least the ones in charge.

Space Marines- I'd say NG, cause in the long run they will help allies and purge enemies. They will fight for their brothers and save one another, Ultimate moral humans to a extent.

Tau- I'd say a Paladin zeal... CG. Really no way to explain this... They just are.

Necrons- None. They don't really have feelings, they purge all life. They are machines.

Eldar- CN. They'd help people, but mostly they are in it for themselves I beleive.

Dark Eldar- CE. They care for no one else at all, even putting others in despair for their own regards and enjoyment.

Orks- CE. However, they were really for the most part born evil, Are evil, constantly. One of those things.

Nids- TN. They are in essence the ultimate pack of Lions, going about and feeding ect.

Chaos- LN/LE. Yeah, Lawful Neutral & Lawful Evil. They are out to purge the imperialum, Sure they may work/are demons... But for the most part, I think they were forced that way for the Imperialium.


In the long run, I really think the only "Good" guys are Tau, Eldar, and beleive it or not, Chaos. That being said, Tau are the best.

In...sane...

Crazy Owl
2006-09-18, 02:15 AM
Chaos Lawful? and possiblly not evil? Just because they are against the imperium doesn't make them less evil. Have you seen Khorne? He is not Lawful! Khorne Berserkers are bloodcrazed maniacs that would kill there own army if they didn't get in a battle that day and that does not sound lawful to me.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-18, 02:16 AM
I'd actually put it like this...

Space Marines; Lawful Neutral. Extremely disciplined. They will help others, only if forced or if they are also servants of the God-Emperor.
Imperial Guard: Lawful Neutral. Pretty much just follows orders, being the bulk and meatshield of the Emperor's forces.
Orks: Chaotic Evil. Dey do what dey wan', an' dey'd blow anyfing up. Even da grotz!
Eldar: Neutral. They try to warn and protect others, but only if the others would be able to help them survive.
Dark Eldar: Chaotic Evil. 'Nuff said.
Tyranids: True Neutral. They eat when they wanna eat, and they eat whatever's closest. And they can digest power armor.
Chaos: Chaotic Evil. Also; 'nuff said.
Tau: Neutral Good. They have a strict empire, but are generally good-hearted and have a definite chaotic streak.
Necrons: Neutral Evil. Devour, assimilate, destroy, kill, maul, wreck, crush, annihilate!!

ivanmckilliagin
2006-09-18, 09:37 AM
In a different vein, are any of the WH40k games any good? I have my doubts as to thier quality, and wonder if any here have them played.

JellyPooga
2006-09-18, 11:15 AM
In a different vein, are any of the WH40k games any good? I have my doubts as to thier quality, and wonder if any here have them played.

I assume you mean computer games right?

If you do, I played Dawn of War once and didn't like it one bit (well, the graphics were amusing...).

But then again, I don't like C&C clones.

On the alignment thing - Why does everyone think Orks are evil? I don't get it. They're no more evil than an anarchist really (a real anarchist, not the 'ug, I'm going to throw a molotov into that house 'cos I'm an anarchist' anarchist), I think anyway.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-18, 12:39 PM
I assume you mean computer games right?

If you do, I played Dawn of War once and didn't like it one bit (well, the graphics were amusing...).

But then again, I don't like C&C clones.

On the alignment thing - Why does everyone think Orks are evil? I don't get it. They're no more evil than an anarchist really (a real anarchist, not the 'ug, I'm going to throw a molotov into that house 'cos I'm an anarchist' anarchist), I think anyway.

You can't really say a RTS is a C&C clone just because its an RTS. If you do mean Computer games Dawn of War is good for 40K fans and anyone else that like RTS games. If you mean specialist games I don't have a clue about BFG but Necromunda is probably a 40K version of Morheim and Mordheim was great fun so its probably good. If you like Roleplaying and 40K a lot Inquisitor is perfect and a really fun game but for non-roleplayers you may wan't to give it a miss because it basically has no rules for fair stat genaration or equipment or anything balanced for that matter but its till fun.

And staying on topic Orks are evil because they would kill there own for no other reason than for fun if they couldn't find something else to fight which is an evil act.

JellyPooga
2006-09-19, 08:22 AM
You can't really say a RTS is a C&C clone just because its an RTS

But Dawn of War is a C&C clone. An example of an RTS that isn't a C&C clone is Rome: Total War. Sorry to nitpick, but I like RTS but not C&C clones (not that C&C was the first of it's type either, I'm just referring to them as they are generally referred to).


And staying on topic Orks are evil because they would kill there own for no other reason than for fun if they couldn't find something else to fight which is an evil act.

Hmmm...I'll concede that one I suppose - They don't kill each other for fun. They fight for fun (which isn't evil). It's just that fighting usually leads to killing and the fact that they don't care is what's evil really...

Crazy Owl
2006-09-19, 10:20 AM
Alright then what makes it a C&C clone then?

PokeTheBard
2006-09-19, 11:55 AM
To pull back INTO the thread from the tangent...

I think you have to look at each chapter and each legion to determine it's standing alignment wise. I.e. Space Wolves and Blood Angels are Chaotic Good where by Ultramarines and Dark Angels are fiercely Lawful Good.

On the chaos side you have the Black Legion, the stereotyped Chaos legion of Lawful Evil, then theres the Chaotic Evil World Eaters legion and Alpha Legion. You've even got the "less evil" Lawful Neutral Death Guard of Nurgle...

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-19, 11:55 AM
But Dawn of War is a C&C clone. An example of an RTS that isn't a C&C clone is Rome: Total War. Sorry to nitpick, but I like RTS but not C&C clones (not that C&C was the first of it's type either, I'm just referring to them as they are generally referred to).
Its not a C&C clone. A C&C clone would have a side HUD where you select a building, it builds in the HUD, and then when its complete, you place it on the actual map. Units would be similarly constructed, and built in individual units only, with none of this squad business. There would also need to be resource gatherers, and no limit on what you can build, short of the amount of resources you have on hand.

JellyPooga
2006-09-19, 03:03 PM
I think you have to look at each chapter and each legion to determine it's standing alignment wise. I.e. Space Wolves and Blood Angels are Chaotic Good where by Ultramarines and Dark Angels are fiercely Lawful Good.

On the chaos side you have the Black Legion, the stereotyped Chaos legion of Lawful Evil, then theres the Chaotic Evil World Eaters legion and Alpha Legion. You've even got the "less evil" Lawful Neutral Death Guard of Nurgle...

Totally - though I'd personally place no Chapter in the Good catagory myself. They're good by their own standards and no-one elses - makes them neutral in my book.



Its not a C&C clone. A C&C clone would have a side HUD where you select a building, it builds in the HUD, and then when its complete, you place it on the actual map. Units would be similarly constructed, and built in individual units only, with none of this squad business. There would also need to be resource gatherers, and no limit on what you can build, short of the amount of resources you have on hand.


Sorry about the off-topic, this is the last one, I promise.

Just because it's not exactly the same, doesn't mean it's not a clone - C&C, Age of Empires, Dawn of War and many others are all of the same type (you build buildings, gather resources (in some form - the generators, or whatever they are, in Dawn of War are the games resource accumulator), Buildings build troops, troops kill enemy buildings and troops). C&C was one of the most popular of it's type and thus, all games of the type became known as C&C clones in certain circles.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-19, 03:43 PM
Its a freaking RTS! Thats what RTS's do, you build stuff then go kill stuff. You can't say a FPS is a Counter Strike clone because it involves shooting people!

Oh and this on topic (sort of) because the topic says its about 40K not just the board version and we are talking about a 40K RTS. If you don't think so aswell then Ill stop now too.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-19, 03:56 PM
Yeah... dont get me wrong, C&C was great, so are most RTS games. But Dawn of War is pretty damn far from a C&C clone.

-You generate resources instead of harvest them
-Infantry are in squads instead of individual
-Some units can use special abilities
-Some units have more than one gun
-Units can move and fire
-It has frickin' aliens
-3D graphics
-And other things that dont matter

Calling all RTS games C&C clones is very biased.

Back on topic; OMGOMGOMGOMG DARK CRUSADE COMES OUT IN TWO WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!one

On my birthday, too

JellyPooga
2006-09-19, 04:13 PM
I'm not saying that all RTS are C&C clones. I even gave an example of one that isn't - Rome: Total War.

I'm saying that RTS of the Age of Empires/Dawn of War variety are commonly known as C&C clones.

Not all RTS are: "You build buildings, buildings build troops, troops kill stuff"


-You generate resources instead of harvest them
See my previous post - C&C clones do not neccesarily have to gather resource. Resource is involved.

-Infantry are in squads instead of individual
So the difference between having a squad of infanty and selecting several infantry is...? Minimal.

-Some units can use special abilities
-Some units have more than one gun
-Units can move and fire
-It has frickin' aliens
-3D graphics
When was Dawn of War made? When was C&C made? These are merely updates in computing. It doesn't stop Dawn of War being a clone.


You can't say a FPS is a Counter Strike clone because it involves shooting people!

But you could say a FPS was a Wolfenstein 3D clone or a Doom clone (in fact a lot of FPS were for a while, namely Duke Nukem was often referred to as a Doom cone), because Wolfenstein was pretty much the first FPS and Doom was the first very popular one.

Horemheb
2006-09-19, 04:46 PM
I am in the proccess of collecting, assembling, and painting three seperate forces right now. I've got some Ultramarines(I'm a history buff so I love the Greek/Roman feel), Black Templars(Space Knights, its great), and Orks. Orks and Gobbos were always my favorites in Warhammer Fantasy and I can't help but try and gather a small force in 40k.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-19, 04:58 PM
Good luck. "Orks" and "small force" don't go together. I bought a starter army for them with a few pieces off the force org chart...

...yeah I still havnt gotten round to painting any of the 66 models...

Wehrkind
2006-09-19, 05:02 PM
Personally, I would have DEEPLY loved it if Dawn of War was a Rome:TW clone instead of C&C/Warcraft. It would maintain the epic, planet spanning feel, as well as the "I build X points in armies, and we duke it out."

I suspect they didn't do that because C&C types are a bit more common and popular. Also, being able to make discrete battles with set amounts of points with which to buy troops would be an online version of their miniatures game you don't need to buy miniatures for. Unless they could charge a monthly fee for online play, you would NEVER see that.

JellyPooga
2006-09-20, 10:55 AM
Personally, I would have DEEPLY loved it if Dawn of War was a Rome:TW clone instead of C&C/Warcraft. It would maintain the epic, planet spanning feel, as well as the "I build X points in armies, and we duke it out."


Seconded

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-20, 12:55 PM
I actually dispise with a burning passion RTS games where you cannot build structures, or get resources in the game. C&C was a revolutionary game, there are bound to be clones of it, but just saying that Dawn of War is a C&C clone simply because the basic idea is the same, is extremely biased, and sounds like you didnt give much thought to it.

Just my two cents... I hope that didnt sound insulting.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-20, 04:45 PM
I'd like to point out one major difference between Dawn of War and WarCraft/C&C.

Resources.

Study the difference between DoW's resources and supply limits and WarCraft's resources and supply limit and C&C's resources.

'Nuff said.

Pilum
2006-09-20, 05:02 PM
Personally, I would have DEEPLY loved it if Dawn of War was a Rome:TW clone instead of C&C/Warcraft. It would maintain the epic, planet spanning feel, as well as the "I build X points in armies, and we duke it out."

Agreed, though I would prefer the Combat Mission model rather than TW for obvious reasons :) Remember Final Liberation? Old Epic PC game, quite entertaining and had elements of what you're thinking in the campaign game.

JellyPooga
2006-09-21, 10:55 AM
I actually dispise with a burning passion RTS games where you cannot build structures, or get resources in the game. C&C was a revolutionary game, there are bound to be clones of it, but just saying that Dawn of War is a C&C clone simply because the basic idea is the same, is extremely biased, and sounds like you didnt give much thought to it.

Just my two cents... I hope that didnt sound insulting.

I'm not saying that DoW is any worse for being a C&C clone. It just is. It's a catagory to place it in, not an insult - no more than saying that I'm a bloke is an insult. I happen not to like C&C 'style' games (if that is a more appealing nomenclature than 'clone'), but that's beside the point. The 'style' of the two games is very similar and many games share that style.

May I ask why you despise RTS where you don't get resource to build buildings which build troops? I'm curious more than anything. I don't like C&C style games because to me, they seem somewhat un-realistic.
Strategy is not about where you can build your buildings, it's about how you move your troops. Troops are not 'built' on the battlefield in a matter of seconds, they are trained in towns and cities (or planets or whatever - setting allowing) over a long period of time. Once your troops are 'built', you don't throw them away in suicidal charges to have a free-for-all, safe in the knowledge that you have another unit being made not a hundred yards away. You have to use them tactically to get the best out of them and hopefully take as few losses as possible, to preserve the integrity of the army. If you let your troops die willy-nilly, you deserve to lose for being a bad general.

That's what I think anyway.

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-21, 02:18 PM
Since when is realism a part of gaming?

While you say that people are trained over a course of months or years, thats true. I think it's assumed that they were already trained, and were 'shipped' to the field as it were. Buildings are important, too. Tiberium silos, for example. How do you hold resources without them? Likewise, a Refinery allows you to process raw materials for immediate use. And the barracks prepares troops for combat, it doesnt train them. Thats how I like to see it.

And because it just doesnt appeal to me in the same way DoW styled games dont appeal to you. I like being able to get reinforcements, and manage an econemy.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-21, 02:46 PM
Thats how it is in DoW, notice the drop pods that come in into the bases. In DoW build time is just how long it takes for the troops to dropped off.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-21, 03:31 PM
Considering how different Dawn of War is from Tabletop, perhaps this should be split into two threads; DoW and TT? I personally came here to discuss the tabletop game, not hear a debate about what style of RTS is better. :P

Crazy Owl
2006-09-21, 05:41 PM
Fine, I'll go make a new thread.

edit: There, no more DoW talk here.
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=other_gaming;action=display;num=1158 874981;start=0#0

Krytha
2006-09-21, 06:11 PM
Goblins and Orks have been revamped in Warhammer Fantasy, but which faction is getting the overhaul in 40K right now? Although Eldar have a large unit base to choose from, I think they (or the Dark Eldar) could use some attention, if only to fix the (pretty but useless and expensive) Warp Spiders...

Crazy Owl
2006-09-21, 06:18 PM
It is Eldar next, you should read White Dwarf more it has ton of useful stuff like whats getting updated. After Eldar I think it should definately be Dark Eldar, they haven't been chnaged in ages.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-21, 07:04 PM
Yeah, Dark Eldar could use a revamp, they've been so neglected and its one of the reasons I hate them.

xthetenth
2006-09-21, 07:48 PM
A few things:
-Tau are practically communists (communist regimes wish they could be the Tau and have such malleable subjects) and they are DEFINITELY Lawful Good. Why? because they take people over TO MAKE THEM FOLLOW THEIR WILL, definitely a lawful thing, especially considering how ordered their society is. And good because being taken over by the Tau is probably the best thing that could happen to them considering what the universe is like.
-I am personally responsible for the craziest army I have seen. I decided to proxy a blood angels force for 1000 points. The command squad was half the points, with jetpacks and power weapons all around, and a sanguinary high preist. The character was a librarian for roughly 260 points (as many as you can spend basically) he had veil of time, and the other sweet power and insane wargear. End result? 5 to 8 attacks a turn, rerolls on all the rolls on his behalf (like his attacks and armor saves). He went through Tau squads in exactly a turn with scary regularity, without getting left out to die. Fun times.
- Playing Tau is like tapdancing on a knife. one slip and youre chopped to pieces (of course I press a fierce attack with mounted squads, which makes the game pretty exciting.) I find the Tau pretty balanced

PokeTheBard
2006-09-22, 05:04 AM
I have a dilema.

I want a new army. I have my Nurgle Lost and the Damned which puts the Iron Warriors to bed when we talk about out-gunning so I don't want another shooty army...

I'm looking for something along these lines:

Minimal models
Assault-orientated
NOT Chaos

...anyone got any ideas? :-/

Kblitz
2006-09-22, 07:52 AM
I have a dilema.

I want a new army. I have my Nurgle Lost and the Damned which puts the Iron Warriors to bed when we talk about out-gunning so I don't want another shooty army...

I'm looking for something along these lines:

Minimal models
Assault-orientated
NOT Chaos

...anyone got any ideas? :-/

You can have an all Kroot army, they are a serious assault style force.

I feel that the Tau are more of an Arete style culture, in that your warriors are asked to be the ultimate expression of what a warrior is, and so on.

Wiki-Arete (Greek) in its basic sense means "goodness" or "excellence" of any kind. In its earliest appearance in Greek this notion of excellence was bound up with the notion of the fulfillment of purpose or function; the act of living up to one's full potential. The moral excellence or arete of a person or thing was virtue.
"The root of the word is the same as 'aristos', the word which shows superlative ability and superiority, and 'aristos' was constantly used in the plural to denote the nobility." 1 (see Aristocracy) The Ancient Greeks applied the term to anything: for example, the excellence of a chimney, the excellence of a bull to be bred, and the excellence of a man. The meaning of the word changes depending on what it describes, since everything has its own particular excellence; the arete of a man is different from the arete of a horse.
By the fourth and fifth centuries B.C.E., arete as applied to men had developed to include quieter virtues, such as dikaiosyne (justice) and sophrosyne (self-restraint). Plato attempted to produce a moral philosophy that incorporated this new usage (and in doing so developed ideas that played a central part in later Christian thought), but it was in the work of Aristotle that the doctrine of arete found its fullest flowering.

So I like the Hellenistic Greek ideal as it applies to space faring futuristic cultures.

The Tau do not pull out an invasion fleet as their first tool out of the box, they are much more willing to meet their goals in other ways, pluse they are incredibly more adavanced than the Imperium is, and given time, they will come to dominate their chosen sphere of existence. The Imperium has numbers, fanaticsm and old templates of weapons they only barely can point and hope to repair, much less upgrade or improve on. Since the Tau do not enslave or oppress their populations, they are much more likely to have staying power.

Now the Tau DO have a racially based caste system (which also aligns with their sub species) so there is some predisposition towards abilities in a given task area already. I do NOT see them as communists though.

Wiki-"Communism is a radical ideology that seeks to establish a future classless, stateless social organization, based upon common ownership of the means of production and the absence of private property."

I don't see the Tau as being under that kind of culture.

Krytha
2006-09-22, 09:42 AM
I have a dilema.

I want a new army. I have my Nurgle Lost and the Damned which puts the Iron Warriors to bed when we talk about out-gunning so I don't want another shooty army...

I'm looking for something along these lines:

Minimal models
Assault-orientated
NOT Chaos

...anyone got any ideas? :-/

I think Black Templars might get you what you want. Throw in an awesome-cool dreadnought to eat up points if you don't feel like painting more.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-22, 11:14 AM
I am liking that idea actually.

Not the kroot idea, the templar idea. I toyed with a Kroot Mercenaries army a couple of years back and the sheer conversion neccessary put me off... :-/

The Black Templars can field me a lovely Land Raider Crusader (or two) to utterly annihilate my points and thus my need to paint and build, as can a delightful powerclaw waving Dreadnought.

It will make for a sitting-duck armoured army though... all it takes is one lucky lascannoneer to blitz half the army... i'll look into it, meanwhile more suggestions are helpful :)

Kblitz
2006-09-22, 11:31 AM
Somehwere there is an all - Kroot army template, they are not hard to do up and you can even mount them in Skimmers. Tau skimmers are terrific. Kroot are not expensive, and their rifles are decent too. They also ignore wooded terrain when they move through it.

Kroot are fabulous assaulters, once they get into your ranks you are in trouble unless you have one of those specialist close assault types (some of those Necron Vegematic critters come to mind). Kroot hounds make sure fleeing enemies don't get away.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-22, 11:40 AM
Yeah, Kroot are great assaulters, I highly recommend them. Kroot Shapers are also pretty much heroes, but they still count as a part of the troops choice. 3 attacks/wounds for only 28 points and one in each squad? Sign me up. People really underestimate the Kroot sometimes, methinks.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-22, 04:55 PM
Alas, I've gone back to my first love... the slobbering, ferocious little blighters that scour entire worlds of life... NO NOT THE INQUISITION! TYRANIDS!

Ahem... "Rate me! Rate meeee!"

HQ

Hive Tyrant (1) and Tyrant Guards (3)
Notes: Adrenal Glands (+1 I & WS), Extended Carapace, Toxin Sacs, Two pairs of Scything Talons, Warp Blast. Has Synapse Creature and The Horror as standard. Guards are unmodified.

Tyrant: 167pt
Guards: 135pt

ELITES

Tyranid Warrior Brood (3)
Notes: Adrenal Glands (+1 I & WS), Extended Carapace, Toxin Sacs, Pair of Scything Talons, Pair of Rending Claws, Symbiote Rippers. Rending ability on all Close Combat attacks.

Warrior Brood: 108pt

Duplicated Warrior Brood

Lictor Brood (3)
Notes: Secret Deployment (Deep Strike), Stealth, Fearless, Hit and Run.

Lictor Brood: 240pt

TROOPS

Termagant Brood (16)
Notes: Fleshborers (Living Ammunition). May re-roll any "failed-to-wound" rolls. Weapon stats: S4, AP5, Assault 1, Living Ammunition.

Termagant Brood: 96pt

Duplicated Termagant Brood
Duplicated Termagant Brood

FAST ATTACK

Ravener Brood (3)
Notes: Scything Talons and Rending Claws. Apply Rending special rule to all Close Combat Attacks.

Ravener Brood: 120pt

HEAVY SUPPORT

Carnifex
Notes: Reinforced Chitin, Bonded Exoskeleton, Adrenal Glands (+1 I & WS), Tusked, Toxin Sacs, Mace Tail, Two Sets of Scything Talons. Gains +2 Attacks on Charge. If 4+ enemies in Base-to-Base, resolve +1 attack at full strength, Initiative 1.

Carnifex: 167pt

Duplicated Carnifex


TOTAL PT COST: 1494

Krytha
2006-09-22, 07:16 PM
YES! The TYRANIDS, not to mention your army build incorporates all of my favourite special units, so I give it three poisonous, barbed, regenerating, carapace-covered, killing blow dealing thumbs up. Ska-rew the genestealers. Although if you could fit a Zoanthrope in there, that would be interesting and lend some support.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-22, 07:40 PM
Part of me wants to argue that there should be two broods of Warriors, but that's just my insanity. It's probably good as is, since there is only one Gaunt brood to be controlled.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-23, 05:12 AM
Warriors are so frequently undervalued. They're not monstrous and so don't fall victim to "Shoot the Big Ones", yet are after minor upgrades about the same cost as a veteran marine but BETTER!

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-23, 07:05 AM
Warriors are so frequently undervalued. They're not monstrous and so don't fall victim to "Shoot the Big Ones", yet are after minor upgrades about the same cost as a veteran marine but BETTER!

Depends on the situation. A veteran marine will probably outshoot a Warrior in a gunfight.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-23, 08:14 AM
Very true, but then i'd be stupid to have this particular warrior built in any sort of firefight. No ranged weaponry!

I really don't like the idea of Tyranids having big guns, but it's very possible to make a hugely shooty 'nid army. I personally prefer the sweeping horde of chitinous doom to be much more appealing!

Krytha
2006-09-23, 06:34 PM
Does anyone feel like posting pictures of the armies that they are most proud of? Perhaps recount a tale of harrowing victory against overwhelming odds?

Murongo
2006-09-23, 11:32 PM
Does anyone feel like posting pictures of the armies that they are most proud of? Perhaps recount a tale of harrowing victory against overwhelming odds?

Ooo I have one. My grey knights (who are, by the way, defainitly NOT chaos, low model count and very good at assault) were fighting tyranids. My friend was the 'nids and he thought we were playing to 1500 points. I thought we were playing 750. Yeah.

My grand master rolled a 6 on his bionics check immediatly before dying, so he got back up as the only unit left on my team other than an inducted IG standard flashlight.

The GM then proceeded to kill old one eye, a hive tyrant, and a biovore, winning the game. It was extreme.

A cool moment from my friend's perspective (casualgamer, he posts pretty often), was when on the first turn of the game, his dark angel predator shot down an enemy monolith, and the wreckage flew right in the middle of the necron forces. That game ended quick.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 07:59 AM
Albeit pretty cool... necron skimmers don't do that. There may have been a rule mistake there which might leave a cool anecdote (<--- ooh check it out! I can't spell!) but will leave the Necron player quite disappointed when (s)he reviews the codex.

The monolith, when disabled or the like, simply slowly floats to the ground downwards and doesn't smash into something.

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-24, 08:01 AM
I just saw the previews of the new Eldar in white dwarf. Absolutely awesome. Then new plastic Aspect Warriors look awesome. I don't even play Eldar and I was going to buy a box of dire avengers for their massive awesomeness. Then I saw the Price. Yes it deserves a capital. It also deserves really big letters:

18 for 5 PLASTIC models.

I almost puked.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-24, 08:45 AM
What? *goes and checks White Dwarf*

edit: I see the 18 but where does it say theres only 5 of them.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 09:18 AM
after looking at the boxed set online, it only includes five, however it also only includes 8 guardians. I can only assume it has half of both, i.e. the box will include 10 Dire Avengers for 18, which is still an awful rip-off but to be expected from Games Workshop.

The Eldar Army boxed set contains 10, inc Exarch so I think likelyhood is, the Squad Box will contain ten models.

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-24, 09:39 AM
My friend gets White Dwarf 1 week in advance via subscription. So I'm talking about octobers issue. Its shows the Dire Avengers boxed set, which clearly contains 5 models. It's priced at 18. GW really have outdone themselves this time.

Why don't people realise just how much of a rip-off their prices are. Then GW would HAVE to lower their prices. Then ervyones happy. Except GW. Which is acceptable.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-24, 11:16 AM
Yeah You get it early if you subcribe. Check their site you get 10. The five is porbably a typo or something.
Its a business, they know we will still buy it no matter how over priced it is.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 12:32 PM
ignore the site, all the listings are the OLD eldar except for the advanced order boxed sets

Crazy Owl
2006-09-24, 01:56 PM
No these are the new ones.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120104011&orignav=10

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 02:37 PM
Sweeeet. And definately ten models.

Gah! Don't show me these! I can't afford to collect more armies :'(

Krytha
2006-09-24, 03:56 PM
Yes you can! Paint fumes will replace hunger!

Plus, you get an exarch FREE**





**Not free in any sense of the term, ever.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-24, 04:17 PM
Don't show the shiny new Eldar? But what about this.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060104098&orignav=10
He is basically a swooping hawk, Dark Reaper and Dire Avenger Exarch put togethor.
Oh its awesome that they made this.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060104112&orignav=10

Wehrkind
2006-09-24, 04:21 PM
Speaking of how ungoddly expensive these little buggers are, I have a question for you vets.

I decided to get back into miniature gaming, and since my fiance asks "How much did it cost" every time I walk inside the house with something new, I decided to be smart and eBay my way to legions.

However, people can't paint worth a damn. Is there a good way to strip their (awful) paint jobs, or am I better off just repainting and touching up the sub-par jobs? It looks like they were all done with acrylics, likely the Citadel paints on most (speaking of huge rip offs). I just never tried to remove the finish and paint off any of my old D&D minis, so I don't know how to get acrylic paints off.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 04:43 PM
NOOOO! Not that Bonesinger which makes me want to buy it everytime I see it... and it makes me want to look at it every ten minutes... :'(

I won't buy it though (trans: i'll buy it tonight on Pre-Order due to my low willpower regarding minatures) because I know I wont do it justice with the paintjob/wont give it a paintjob...

Using eBay you can pick up some quite cheap unassembled kits or unpainted models so i'd definately recommend those first. Failing that, you'd need White Spirit or some other strong alcohol to remove the paint job.

Only use this on the metal models though, and never on the plastic ones which tend to melt...

If you've got models which are made of both metal and plastic, you can give it a try but be thorough when cleaning the alcohol off.

Murongo
2006-09-24, 06:16 PM
Speaking of how ungoddly expensive these little buggers are, I have a question for you vets.

I decided to get back into miniature gaming, and since my fiance asks "How much did it cost" every time I walk inside the house with something new, I decided to be smart and eBay my way to legions.

However, people can't paint worth a damn. Is there a good way to strip their (awful) paint jobs, or am I better off just repainting and touching up the sub-par jobs? It looks like they were all done with acrylics, likely the Citadel paints on most (speaking of huge rip offs). I just never tried to remove the finish and paint off any of my old D&D minis, so I don't know how to get acrylic paints off.

Brake fluid.

Murongo
2006-09-24, 06:17 PM
Albeit pretty cool... necron skimmers don't do that. There may have been a rule mistake there which might leave a cool anecdote (<--- ooh check it out! I can't spell!) but will leave the Necron player quite disappointed when (s)he reviews the codex.

The monolith, when disabled or the like, simply slowly floats to the ground downwards and doesn't smash into something.
Huh, we thought it just acted like a regular tank when it came to exploding. For a while we never really played 40k but our version of 40k, anyway. Some of the rules are obscure.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-24, 06:22 PM
Ah, if "vehicle destroyed 2" or "vehicle annihilated", it still wounds everything in D6".

I thought you meant it scattered the wreckage like normal skimmers.

And i've taken the plunge on buying some new things...the forge world traitor guard conversions kit! Very Nurgle if I do say so myself...

Wehrkind
2006-09-25, 02:29 PM
Brake fluid? Seriously? Does that eat plastic mini's? I suppose it is carried in rubber tubes, so it isn't likely to dissolve that sort of thing. That is pretty cool, I will have to try it out.

Thanks!

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-25, 02:55 PM
Isn't there some kind of paint thinner out there that's specifically made for plastic models? I seem to recall seeing some somewhere...

Just don't ever use Nail Polish remover. It has the same effect as some previously mentioned things. Nothing like nail polish remover mixed with liquid plastic to get the job done. And then you wonder why people put that stuff on their fingers...

Krytha
2006-09-25, 04:05 PM
It probably works flawlessly on metal models, but maybe you should try it out on some other things made of plastic first so that you don't lose your first couple before you realize OH SHI-

Kblitz
2006-09-25, 04:54 PM
Brake fluid? Seriously? Does that eat plastic mini's? I suppose it is carried in rubber tubes, so it isn't likely to dissolve that sort of thing. That is pretty cool, I will have to try it out.

Thanks!\

NOOOOOO

Do not use brake fluid on plastic, metal figs only!

Wehrkind
2006-09-26, 07:31 AM
While I am thinking on it, is there any ready to buy the ungoddly expensive Citadel paints? Are they particularly different from any other acrylic paint you get at a hobby or arts and crafts store?

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-26, 11:50 AM
While I am thinking on it, is there any ready to buy the ungoddly expensive Citadel paints? Are they particularly different from any other acrylic paint you get at a hobby or arts and crafts store?

They're of a specific colour? ::)

I haven't done the exact calculation, but they do offer a 150 set with every single one of their pants. Don't know how much you save though, so dunno if its worth it...I buy their paints anyway just to support them.

Crazy Owl
2006-09-26, 01:24 PM
If you get over 100 paints in it, its worth it.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-26, 02:04 PM
If you get over 100 paints in it, its worth it.

The carrying case it comes in could probably hold 100, but I'd have to ask exactly how many it has.

Krytha
2006-09-27, 01:16 AM
If you were a professional artist and could create different shades and hues easily, then I don't see why that would be a problem. But for people who don't know what they're doing or are following the painting instructions by book or website, it would be easier to just buy the paints and follow along.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-27, 09:51 AM
If you were a professional artist and could create different shades and hues easily, then I don't see why that would be a problem. But for people who don't know what they're doing or are following the painting instructions by book or website, it would be easier to just buy the paints and follow along.

It also allows you to get the precise hue you want if you're making a prexisting army. Not exactly what I'd like to do myself, but it is an option. <_<;

PokeTheBard
2006-09-27, 11:48 AM
>:(

Dont talk to me about mixing paints, I play Nurgle Lost and the Damned with a few Plague Marines thrown into the mix.

Colouring the marines and vehicles the same is an utter nightmare!

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-27, 12:04 PM
>:(

Dont talk to me about mixing paints, I play Nurgle Lost and the Damned with a few Plague Marines thrown into the mix.

Colouring the marines and vehicles the same is an utter nightmare!

Well, on the other hand, with the Nurglites you could always say its because their chaotic and diseased and...yeah. ::)

Krytha
2006-09-27, 01:44 PM
yyeeeeaaahh... for nurgle I'm sure people won't mind if the tint is off by a shade as long as they look disgusting.

PokeTheBard
2006-09-27, 01:50 PM
True, but the Death Guard are very precise in their colour, and the plague marines within the group I have are not too dissimilar to the Death Guard.

Just because they're diseased, doesn't mean they can't paint their armour neatly!

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-27, 01:51 PM
Thought of using a mixing pot?

Krytha
2006-09-27, 02:04 PM
True, but the Death Guard are very precise in their colour, and the plague marines within the group I have are not too dissimilar to the Death Guard.

Just because they're diseased, doesn't mean they can't paint their armour neatly!

Some of them don't have enough fingers to hold a paintbrush! Granted, they have about seven tentacles growing out of their face which could do the job just as well or better, but still!

PokeTheBard
2006-09-27, 02:26 PM
A mixing pot might be an idea but that would make too much sense...

And i've managed to cut up my fingers and stick pieces of Spawn of Chaos to them... it's a miracle I can still type... :'(

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-27, 02:40 PM
Mixing pots are always the best way to go when painting large numbers of models with a custom colour, IMO. Lets you get exactly what you need.

Why did you cut up your fingers? Y'should use gloves or something, or be more careful. :-/

PokeTheBard
2006-09-27, 04:13 PM
It's ok, i'm used to Warhammer doing me damage...

I once stabbed my thumb with a pin vice accidently. The fun bit was finding I had to unscrew it to get it out! ;D

Wehrkind
2006-10-03, 06:20 PM
Yes, getting a little container of some sort to hold custom colors is really important. ALWAYS mix more paint than you need. If you don't blow 3$ on a shot glass full, you can easily afford way more acrylics than you need. Wal Mart has all sorts for like .50$ for a good sized bottle. So if you mix up a custom color, just make enough to fill a small Tupperware container. It will stay good for a long time, and you will always have enough to slather on.

I just wasn't sure if Citadel paints were functionally different though. I tend to believe that if something is 6-12 times more expensive, it must be better, somehow.

ivanmckilliagin
2006-10-04, 01:49 AM
What would be the absalut best army to field vs Tau? Besides 'Nids, he nixed them guys.

I was thinking necron, or Lysander's SM, but i want to have fun, not just kill him completely...

PokeTheBard
2006-10-04, 04:53 AM
You want to design an army who can out-shoot the tau. The best victories come when you beat the enemy at their own game.

Iron Warriors CSMs, a custom built fast Space Marine army with lots of assault weaponry or even some Eldar armies would do very nicely for this. Eldar also have the potential to hold a unit of banshees/scorpions (although i'd lean closer to the banshee option.) which can deal with any pesky kroot.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-04, 08:34 AM
Outside of 'Nids? I'd love to say Orkz. Okay, maybe not the best per se, but they do have high toughness and there are a lot of them, and they're absolutely deadly in close combat. But yeah, it'd probably be Iron Warriors or assault-based SM like Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

PokeTheBard
2006-10-04, 10:46 AM
Ooh good point! Blood angels with a pair of Baal Predators (if they're still allowed them) and a Land Raider Crusader... messy

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-04, 10:56 AM
Not to mention the poor sods who suffer from the Red Thirst. Poor Death Company. They are ace though. ;D

Sir_Dude
2006-10-04, 09:49 PM
Actually, I'd avoid getting any single high point cost unit like the land raider. Most intelligent tau players are going to have at least one unit with a rail gun. Granted armor 14 is nice, but you don't want it runing into one of the singularly most powerful guns in the game. Eventually you lose. And with all the points that went into landraiders. You lose hard.

Just for the record the strategy I'm speaking of is just me thinking statistically. I've never had a decent game against SM with Tau. I chewed an SM squad with Stealth suits and then we ran out of time.

I'd say a decent tactic would be to get lots of good marines. With pulse rifles being ap 5, SM armor is a good counter. Especially since you're troops carry equally powerful (if slightly shorter ranged weapons) and are more accurate with them. For a base of 4 points more, it's a decent advantage over the firewarrior. Since you have heavy weapons choices, your tactical squads should be able to outshoot firewarriors and out fight kroot (on a good day, you could have bad luck there since they'll likely outnumber you). And you ever catch their firewarrior in melee... they might as well abandon all hope for those poor unfortunates. Your biggest concern then is going to be the suits. These can easily field stuff that will chew standard SMs. Fortuantly they're 1 wound high point cost units that die easy to things like lascannons and krak missiles. The tanks are mean, long ranged, but nothing truly special by comparison to Imperial tanks, with the one exception of the Railgun, which is a lovely tank killer.

PokeTheBard
2006-10-05, 06:09 AM
Only if you're taking the crusader. Take a standard (cheaper) Land Raider and you'll probably wipe out any Hammerheads in your first turn of shooting. You're bringing two lascannon shots to bear on it which can be rerolled if they miss. That's going to do some damage to a Broadside team, too.

In addition, the Land Raider has more armour than any Tau vehicle. You're more likely to survive than he is. You're right though, it's a gamble for so many points for a unit that can be destroyed in one lucky shot. But personally, its a gamble i'd be comfortable taking.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-05, 06:12 AM
That only works assuming you can get close enough to take a shot at the Hammerhead. Remember that on a large table, that thing can make maximum use of its 72" range.

Still, I'd rather not gamble with many tanks against Tau unless it's real short ranged. I'd much rather send in packs of fast attack to tie up their infantry while the slower troops move into position.

Matthew
2006-10-05, 08:20 AM
There is so much you can do with a Space Marine Army; they are pretty much the most flexible and forgiving force available. You can build them to take on the Tau at long range or you can build them to take the Tau on at short range.

Space Marine Veterans are an under used resource, as the temptation is always to go with Terminators. A few units of Close Combat Terminator Honoured Veterans with the Infiltration ability, backed up by Assault Squads in Land Raiders (No Rocket Packs), can really carry the fight to the enemy.

It all depends on the battle field, scenario and likely composition of the enemy, though. Without that sort of information any plan is pot luck.

ivanmckilliagin
2006-10-05, 10:15 AM
composition of the enemy is fairly easy, in my case: 3 full boradside teams, likely, all with stabilizers. Full elite choices of XV8 suits, prolly w/ plasma and missiles, troops are 2 fishloads of FW. Hq=Shas'o with backup. Fast attack will be pathfinders, with a chance of vespid.

Narrow it down?

Matthew
2006-10-05, 11:01 AM
Hmmn. How many Points and what Models to you have available? The last time I fielded a Space Marine Army it was around 3,000 Points against Eldar. The Army looked like this:


Battle for the Ruins of Deghodia IV
Forces of the Black Lightning Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes

Space Marine Commander (Command 1/2) 155 Points
Chapter Master Malthas Ryuken +75, Terminator Armour +25,
Storm Bolt Rifle +5, Master Crafted Power Fist +40, Bionics +5, Purity Seals +5,

Terminator Command Squad (Command 1/2) [250 Points]
1 Sergeant +40,
4 Terminators +160, Assault Cannon +20, Cyclone Missile Launcher +25, Chain Fist +5,

Space Marine Commander (Command 2/2) [104 Points]
Captain with Terminator Honours +75,
Bolt Pistol +1, Power Weapon +15, Bionics +5, Infiltrator +3,
Melta Grenades +5,

Space Marine Command Squad (Command 2/2) [214 Points]
1 Sergeant with Terminator Honours +30,
Power Fist +15, Auspex +2, (47 Points)
1 Apothecary with Terminator Honours +50,
Power Fist +15, (65 Points)
3 Marines with Terminator Honours +75, (75 Points)
Infiltrators +15, (15 Points)
Flame Rifle +6, Flame Rifle +6

Terminator Squad (Elite 1/3) [230 Points]
1 Sergeant +40
4 Terminators +160, Cyclone Missile Launcher +25, Chain Fist +5,

Veteran Squad (Elite 2/3) [208 Points]
1 Veteran Sergeant with Terminator Honours +33,
Power Fist +15, Auspex +2,
4 Veteran Marines with Terminator Honours +112,
Power Fist +25,
Infiltrators +15,
Flame Rifle +6,

Veteran Squad (Elite 3/3) [208 Points]
1 Veteran Sergeant with Terminator Honours +33,
Power Fist +15, Auspex +2,
4 Veteran Marines with Terminator Honours +112,
Power Fist +25,
Infiltrators +15,
Flame Rifle +6,

Scout Squad (Troop 1/6) [75 Points]
1 Sergeant +13,
4 Marines +52, Sniper Rifle +5, Heavy Bolt Gun +5,

Scout Squad (Troop 2/6) [75 Points]
1 Sergeant +13,
4 Marines +52, Sniper Rifle +5, Heavy Bolt Gun +5,

Tactical Squad (Troop 3/6) [85 Points]
1 Sergeant +15,
4 Marines +60, Missile Launcher +10,

Tactical Squad (Troop 4/6) [85 Points]
1 Sergeant +15,
4 Marines +60, Missile Launcher +10,

Tactical Squad (Troop 5/6) [90 Points]
1 Sergeant +15,
4 Marines +60, Laser Cannon +15,

Tactical Squad (Troop 6/6) [90 Points]
1 Sergeant +15,
4 Marines +60, Laser Cannon +15,

Assault Squad (Fast Attack 1/3) [116 Points]
Sergeant with Terminator Honours +30,
Power Sword +10,
4 Marines +60,
Fragmentation Grenades +0, Melta Grenades +10, Flame Rifle +6,

Assault Squad (Fast Attack 2/3) [116 Points]
Sergeant with Terminator Honours +30,
Power Sword +10,
4 Marines +60,
Fragmentation Grenades +0, Melta Grenades +10, Flame Rifle +6,

Devastator Squad (Heavy Support 1/3) [150 Points]
Sergeant +15,
4 Marines +60, Missile Launcher +20, Missile Launcher +20, Laser Cannon +35,

Land Raider (Heavy Support 2/3) [255 Points]
Extra Armour +5,

Land Raider (Heavy Support 3/3) [255 Points]
Extra Armour +5,

Total: 2771

Command Option 1 ~ 158 + 265 = 405 [405 / 3000]
Command Option 2 ~ 328 = 328 [733 / 3000]
Elite Options 1, 2 & 3 ~ 230 + 208 + 208 = 646 [1379 / 3000]
Troop Options 1 & 2 ~ 75 + 75 = 150 [1529 / 3000]
Troop Options 3, 4, 5 & 6 ~ 85 + 85 + 90 + 90 = 350 [1879 / 3000]
Heavy Support Options 1, 2 & 3 ~ 150 + 255 + 255 = 660 [2539 / 3000]
Fast Attack Options 1 & 2 ~ 116 + 116 = 232 [2771 / 3000]

This was a built as a fairly flexible army, but with an emphasis on closing with the enemy as quickly as possible. It worked very well indeed. Trading out the Devestator Squad for another Land Raider and filling in the last Fast Attack Option with an additional Assault Squad would bring the total up by 221 [105 + 116] for a total of 2992 Points.

Other options include: ditching the Tactical Squads and Terminator Command Squad and replacing the Terminator Squad with Veteran Infiltrators to bring the Point Cost down to around 2,000. Veteran Squads could also swap out Flame Rifles for Power Weapons for +9 Points each [Total: 217] or the Assault Squad Sergeants could trade out their Power Swords for Power Fists for +5 Points each [Total: 221]. All kinds of minor and major changes are viable, depending on points totals and mission plan.

Krytha
2006-10-05, 11:25 AM
Hmmn. How many Points and what Models to you have available? The last time I fielded a Space Marine Army it was 3,000 Points against Eldar.

No dreadnought :'(

Matthew
2006-10-05, 11:29 AM
Didn't need one... but I don't have a Space Marine Dreadnought Model... so I didn't have the option either. Anyway, it would eat up another Elite Choice.

Krytha
2006-10-05, 11:45 AM
But... but they're so COOL!!

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-05, 11:45 AM
Dreadnoughts are highly overrated. I'd say their best feature is that if you need a lot of Heavy Support, they fulfill a similar role without using up any HS slots. Still, they've got targets painted all over them, I'd much rather take a good tac squad with a lascannon or missile launcher in their place.

Crazy Owl
2006-10-05, 12:04 PM
Dreadnaughts armour is just too weak, if you have them built for close combat you will be lucky to even get it close. You can get far better fire power out of Predators, Whirlwinds and Vindicators.

Were-Sandwich
2006-10-05, 12:22 PM
But, as was stated, they're just damn cool. And don't underestimate one of them Dark Angels ones with 2 assault cannons. Can anyone say Rending?

Matthew
2006-10-05, 12:22 PM
Dreadnaughts armour is just too weak, if you have them built for close combat you will be lucky to even get it close. You can get far better fire power out of Predators, Whirlwinds and Vindicators.

Dreadnoughts are Elite Choices for Space Marines.


But, as was stated, they're just damn cool. And don't underestimate one of them Dark Angels ones with 2 assault cannons. Can anyone say Rending?

Dreadnoughts certainly have their place, but they wouldn't be much good for the above concept army, as it relies on Close Combat Veterans to work, which are also an Elite Choice.
An Army geared for Long Range Fire would probably get better use out of a Dreadnought or three, as they could be deployed in addition to any Heavy Support Choices.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-05, 02:16 PM
Yeah. Dreadnoughts, regardless of their weaknesses, do excel at turning things into piles of ash (even vehicles) and without being Heavy Support. They can mount twin-linked lascannons after all, which is pretty much the best anti-armour you're going to get out of the SM. If you wanted a decent anti-armour force, Dreadnoughts and Devastator squads (3 of each) would probably be the way to go. Maybe a Predator or two if you wanted more mobility out of your force.

Crazy Owl
2006-10-05, 04:51 PM
How does being Elite change its fire power?

Matthew
2006-10-05, 05:09 PM
Not at all; but since they are Elite Choices you can't take them, or not take them, in preference to Heavy Support, such as Predators, Whirlwinds or Vindicators. Whilst your statement was broadly true, it requires some clarification, as you can't compare Dreadnoughts to these vehicles directly, since they are not the same type of Choice, if you see what I mean...

[i.e. taking Dreadnoughts does not preclude taking Heavy Support, such as the vehicles you mention, but it would preclude other Elite Choices, such as Terminators and Veterans, which is a significant factor to take into account when choosing your forces].

Crazy Owl
2006-10-05, 05:11 PM
Firstly, I thought they were heavy support at the time (thinking of the chaos ones, silly me) and second I meant more don't spend your points on dreadnaughts when you could spend them on Predators and such.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-05, 05:11 PM
I never said being an Elite choice changed their firepower...what I was trying to point out is that you can take 3 elites choices and 3 heavy support choices. The best heavy firepower is obviously in heavy support, but you can also take three dreadnoughts who do fulfill the role of heavy support as well. Thus you could in a way double the amount of heavy "vehicle" based firepower in a way. They're still not as effective as a proper vehicle, but that's not my point.

Crazy Owl
2006-10-05, 05:15 PM
I meant points really not what slots you were taking. An only heavy weaponry army probably wouldn't be very good and a sqaud of terminators could do a lot better in close combat than a dreadnaught in my opinion. Both for survivability and damage.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-05, 05:18 PM
No, you're right there. I wasn't arguing practicality or points, just number of slots. Personally I don't plan on ever using Dreadnoughts. TSOALR reminds us that Dreadnoughts have the distinction of being a minor inconvenience and then attracting the firepower of a small nation. Bless.

Sir_Dude
2006-10-06, 03:55 AM
Yeah for the most part I see Dreadnaughts as a large amount of points you're lucky to see used before the whole thing goes kaboom.

However dispite this I can see some use for that twin linked lascannon as an excellent tank killer. Especially since its a walker and can always fire on the move.

Matthew
2006-10-06, 07:26 AM
Firstly, I thought they were heavy support at the time (thinking of the chaos ones, silly me) and second I meant more don't spend your points on dreadnaughts when you could spend them on Predators and such.

Yes I gathered both of these factors. It can be fairly confusing. Heavy Support is the obvious category that the Dreadnought should fall into, but for some reason they don't, but do for Chaos. As I said, your statement was broadly true, Predators and such are a better investment for the point cost, but I suspect that is part of the reason the Draeadnought has been classified as an Elite Choice.

I think Eldar Wraith Lords are Heavy Support for Eldar, as well, but I could be wrong. Alternate Craft World rules allow for them to be Troop Choices. Of course, Eldar Dreadnoughts are actually Monstrous Creatures, which makes them hard to blow up with Melta Grenades. I hate Wraith Lords, but I hear they might actually be reclassified (once again) as true Dreadnoughts in the next Eldar Codex Incarnation.

Sir_Dude
2006-10-07, 06:42 AM
Hey at least they're not as confusing as Crisis Suits.

If it looks like a dreadnaught, shoots like a dreadnaught, smells like a dreadnaught... its a jump infantry?

Honestly, that never made sense to me. Even Killa Cans get to be walkers.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-07, 06:46 AM
I think the fact that they have jetpacks and seem to be much more agile than Dreadnoughts or Killer Kans or the like, plus the fact that they're kind of wearing the suit like a really REALLY big piece of power armour helps there. I think its mostly just to make the jumpacks work.

But eh, why do you care? It vastly increases its survivability in that manner. ;)

Krytha
2006-10-07, 08:20 PM
For the points, I think dreadnoughts should get a boost. Make them harder to kill, anything.

Still, if they're big targets, it means the enemy isn't shooting at the rest of your army... at least hopefully long enough for you to get in some serious damage.

Crazy Owl
2006-10-08, 04:25 AM
I dout you will get serious damage done in one turn. A Dreadnaught is a large target that says shoot me for a ton of points. So you spend a ton of points on this large target that takes one lascannon or Krak Missile to kill it. I don't think thats a very good distraction. For the same points you could get a squad of space Marines of Scouts that would take several Lascannon shots to kill.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-10-08, 06:04 PM
Yeah, Dreadnoughts are way overpriced, they do need a boost somehow. Personally, I'm fond of the Devastator Squads for heavy support. Not as easy to destroy and just as many (if not more) weapons for your points. Only downside is they can't really run away or maneuvre much.

Murongo
2006-10-08, 07:38 PM
Yeah, Dreadnoughts are way overpriced, they do need a boost somehow. Personally, I'm fond of the Devastator Squads for heavy support. Not as easy to destroy and just as many (if not more) weapons for your points. Only downside is they can't really run away or maneuvre much.

Only problem with dev/purgation squads is if you don't watch it they can EAT points. I was once fighting 'nids so I decided to take a purgation squad with incinerators, drop next to a big bunch of 'stealers and melt them. It worked. They were then killed by a hive tyrant and his guards. My friend was outraged by how much damage 5 little marines did. Until I pointed out that they had costed me more than a land raider and point-wise we had pretty much broke even.

Also if the enemy has any units that can target a unit in a squad (like my vindicare assasin) they can easily pick off the sarge, forcing you to fire all those pretty guns at one target at a time. Sure all those lascannons will kill a rhino... A rhino, but thats an awful lot of points.

Bassically they're very situational, whereas a dreadnaught is very versatile, but when they're in their element, dev squads are... well... devastating.

Speaking of bullet-magnets: avatars. Those things are like 85 points but everyone seems to think they cost some inordinate amount in the 100s. I've seen friends lose because they unload all their heavy lascannons into an avatar and they end up getting hit-and-run raped by those pesky eldar hovertanks. Of course I'm guilty of it because as grey knights I always want to use my anti-daemon abilities.

Sir_Dude
2006-10-08, 11:39 PM
Wait, Sargeant's let you direct fire against different units? I've never heard that before.

Krytha
2006-10-08, 11:40 PM
How do you like the demon hunter armies? How do they play?