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TheEmerged
2010-09-30, 06:51 PM
Hello and thank you for your time. Let me preface this question by saying its entirely possible what I'm looking for is in plain sight and I'm missing it. It's been one of those weeks.

[Broad]
How do the new builds from "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" interact with the existing 4e character classes, and vice versa?

[Specific Examples]
I'm going to presume that the utility powers for the new builds (example: Agile Footwork pg 180) can be taken by standard builds. I'm also going to presume that the new builds could choose existing utility powers. For wizards, it looks like this applies for their encounter, at will, and daily powers as well.

I'm also going to presume that the new builds can take other paragon paths & epic destinies, and vice versa.

Finally, I'm going to presume that anything from HotFL is considered errata/corrections where it contradicts existing items (example: Tumble now allows a rogue to shift up to his/her speed instead of half of it).

1>Do all clerics have proficiency with light/heavy shields now, or just the Warpriest build?

2>Is there any way for a non-thief rogue to get any of those "tricks", or for a thief to get rogue encounter powers?

Hzurr
2010-09-30, 08:14 PM
I think you've got the idea.

My understanding is that if a power has a level associated with it, like a "lvl 2 utility power," you're free to swap that with any other lvl 2 utility power from that class.

And yes, the places that contradict the previous books (like tumble, or magic missile) are effectively errata. Once the CB gets updated (which is still up in the air), you'll see it that way everywhere.


Yep, Epic Destinies and Paragon paths are the exact same as before.

1> Not certain, it may just be warpriest

2> See the first answer. Unless the ability has a level associated with it, a "classic" 4E character can't take it


Hope this helps

Jaidu
2010-10-01, 04:02 PM
[Specific Examples]
I'm going to presume that the utility powers for the new builds (example: Agile Footwork pg 180) can be taken by standard builds. I'm also going to presume that the new builds could choose existing utility powers. For wizards, it looks like this applies for their encounter, at will, and daily powers as well.
As far as I understand, any power with a level and a class should be available to any member of the class that normally gets that type of power at that level.


I'm also going to presume that the new builds can take other paragon paths & epic destinies, and vice versa.
I agree, as long as there is no specific requirement. The Slayer PP, for example, specifies that it's available to Slayer only.


Finally, I'm going to presume that anything from HotFL is considered errata/corrections where it contradicts existing items (example: Tumble now allows a rogue to shift up to his/her speed instead of half of it).
Yes, and many if not all of these were listed in the last official errata.


1>Do all clerics have proficiency with light/heavy shields now, or just the Warpriest build?
I believe it's just the Warpriest build. This also goes for Knights having Plate Armor Proficiency, and Slayers not having shield proficiency.


2>Is there any way for a non-thief rogue to get any of those "tricks", or for a thief to get rogue encounter powers?
I don't think so, because rogues don't normally get level 1 utility powers.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-01, 04:16 PM
How do the new builds from "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" interact with the existing 4e character classes, and vice versa?
The 4.4 cleric and wizard are Just Another Build and can take powers and feats from the regular cleric and wizard, and vice versa.

The 4.4 rogue and fighter work differently, in that they don't get attack powers. This means that they cannot take attack powers from the regular rogue or fighter either, although they can take utility powers; and the regular R&F can't take their attack powers because there aren't any. So your two examples are correct.


Finally, I'm going to presume that anything from HotFL is considered errata/corrections where it contradicts existing items
Correct, and this will be made official in the next set of errata (early october).



1>Do all clerics have proficiency with light/heavy shields now, or just the Warpriest build?
Only the warpriest.


2>Is there any way for a non-thief rogue to get any of those "tricks", or for a thief to get rogue encounter powers?
No. Well, the thief can get an encounter power from a rogue paragon path, does that count?

Meta
2010-10-01, 04:56 PM
The 4.4 cleric and wizard are Just Another Build and can take powers and feats from the regular cleric and wizard, and vice versa.

The 4.4 rogue and fighter work differently, in that they don't get attack powers. This means that they cannot take attack powers from the regular rogue or fighter either, although they can take utility powers; and the regular R&F can't take their attack powers because there aren't any. So your two examples are correct.


Correct, and this will be made official in the next set of errata (early october).


Only the warpriest.


No. Well, the thief can get an encounter power from a rogue paragon path, does that count?

Could you reserve maneuver the power from your paragon path with an essentials class?

Kurald Galain
2010-10-01, 05:07 PM
Could you reserve maneuver the power from your paragon path with an essentials class?
Oh, that is a clever one. Yes: if you have an encounter attack power from a paragon path (and I believe all of them have one) then you can use Reserve Maneuver to swap this out for a regular encounter attack power. It's probably not a great deal, given how powerful those L11 powers are, though.

The Martial Readiness tree doesn't help either. However, one of the designers has stated that as a 4.4 human, you can still pick an extra at-will power instead of the Heroic Effort power. Likewise, you could use a multiclass feat to get an extra at-will once per encounter, although not all MCs do that.

Meta
2010-10-01, 08:43 PM
Oh, that is a clever one. Yes: if you have an encounter attack power from a paragon path (and I believe all of them have one) then you can use Reserve Maneuver to swap this out for a regular encounter attack power. It's probably not a great deal, given how powerful those L11 powers are, though.

The Martial Readiness tree doesn't help either. However, one of the designers has stated that as a 4.4 human, you can still pick an extra at-will power instead of the Heroic Effort power. Likewise, you could use a multiclass feat to get an extra at-will once per encounter, although not all MCs do that.

I was thinking that its not terribly uncommon for people to pick paragon paths for sweet features but with powers they can't really use well.

plus there are many, many good low level powers out there. I don't know the details of the knight but I'd guess he could find some use for a power like come and get it.