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View Full Version : Optimizing a Vampiress for unarmed combat



Myth
2010-10-01, 04:31 AM
Hmm... I'm thinking i want to make an interesting high leveled NPC Vampire for my game (I mean i've made her already but she is not statted out, she can one-shot them ATM and they know it). She has an uber artifact bow of level draining that pierces magical concealment and protections (because a recent addition went for Incantatrix with abrupt jaunt and i want to threaten him at some point. Although a field of burrowed zombies is another nice way to make abrupt jaunt useless)

So anyway, she is good for ranged but i want her to be a beast in melee. It got me thinking - sure vamps get great stats for caster classes, but what if i went for optimizing unarmed strike? They do level drain with each natural weapon or slam attack (once per round). The text is a bit fuzzy though. Once per round, does that mean once per attack or once per full-attack action... Who knows. It's also worse if the unarmed strike =/= natural wepon (or slam) argument comes.

But i'm the DM and i want her to bestow 2 negative levels with each hit from her arms and legs. So there. Problem is I don't know how to go about building a good unarmed attacker. Do i dip monk? Do i go unarmed Swordsage? Going for flurry of blows + time stands still sounds like a good way to one-shot anyone who isn't protected from level drain. Thoughts?

holywhippet
2010-10-01, 04:43 AM
I'd be tempted to rely heavily on the transformation spell to make her extra dangerous in combat - then just focus on caster levels. Throw in a few combat boosting spells like stoneskin and fire shield.

Once per round means exactly that - it doesn't matter if you are using a standard action or a full round action.

Myth
2010-10-01, 04:49 AM
Look i know every other response here is "Wizard 20". I'm asking for a genuine martial character. Plus excuse me but a well built ToB character will turn a Transformation gish to minced meat, unless the Gish is really abusing mechanics or has 10 rounds of buffing time.

Aharon
2010-10-01, 06:37 AM
Does it have to be a vampire? The Soul Eater PrC in BoVD focuses on bestowing negative levels, which seems to be your main point. It also has good BAB, all good saves, and various abilities related to soul-draining. The catch is that it has Race: Living Non-humanoid as a prereq.
Being the DM, you could waive that, though.

Myth
2010-10-01, 06:45 AM
I read the class now. It seems to be somewhat useless (unless coupled with someone who has godly SLAs or EX abilities, like a Dweomerkeepr or an Efreet) and the only actual soul draining (read: negative levels) is 2 per "touch" (idiot non-specific text) which seems like the same deal i'd get from Vampire.

And yes she has to be a Vampire as she's already been introduced. My main focus is to have her hit hard and with as many unarmed/slams as she can in a round, so that each poke with her finger bestows 2 negative levels. So 10 hits per round one-shot anyone non-epic and not protected from level drain. If i can squeeze more oomph from those unarmed attacks (stunning effects, making them vorpal or keen or wahtever) it's even better.

Caliphbubba
2010-10-01, 06:54 AM
I read the class now. It seems to be somewhat useless (unless coupled with someone who has godly SLAs or EX abilities, like a Dweomerkeepr or an Efreet) and the only actual soul draining (read: negative levels) is 2 per "touch" (idiot non-specific text) which seems like the same deal i'd get from Vampire.

And yes she has to be a Vampire as she's already been introduced. My main focus is to have her hit hard and with as many unarmed/slams as she can in a round, so that each poke with her finger bestows 2 negative levels. So 10 hits per round one-shot anyone non-epic and not protected from level drain. If i can squeeze more oomph from those unarmed attacks (stunning effects, making them vorpal or keen or wahtever) it's even better.

Totemists can get loads of natural attacks. not sure if they'd count for the level drain though. or come to think of it if Undead can use Incarnum at all. I really need to brush up on MoI I guess.

as a silly suggestion....Vampire Druid/Soul Eater. Wild Shape into a Octopus and *wham* lots and lots of level drain.

soulchicken
2010-10-01, 07:31 AM
Hmm... I'm thinking i want to make an interesting high leveled NPC Vampire for my game (I mean i've made her already but she is not statted out, she can one-shot them ATM and they know it). She has an uber artifact bow of level draining that pierces magical concealment and protections (because a recent addition went for Incantatrix with abrupt jaunt and i want to threaten him at some point. Although a field of burrowed zombies is another nice way to make abrupt jaunt useless)

So anyway, she is good for ranged but i want her to be a beast in melee. It got me thinking - sure vamps get great stats for caster classes, but what if i went for optimizing unarmed strike? They do level drain with each natural weapon or slam attack (once per round). The text is a bit fuzzy though. Once per round, does that mean once per attack or once per full-attack action... Who knows. It's also worse if the unarmed strike =/= natural wepon (or slam) argument comes.

But i'm the DM and i want her to bestow 2 negative levels with each hit from her arms and legs. So there. Problem is I don't know how to go about building a good unarmed attacker. Do i dip monk? Do i go unarmed Swordsage? Going for flurry of blows + time stands still sounds like a good way to one-shot anyone who isn't protected from level drain. Thoughts?

You seem to know a bit about ToB. I'd go the unarmed sword sage with twf. Monk's don't seem very vampiry if you consider roleplaying aspects.

Then again, never do swordsages, but you don't have an alignment restriction with them iirc.

Benly
2010-10-01, 07:46 AM
Go Wildshape Ranger -> Warshaper. Use Morphic Weaponry to sprout a few dozen tentacles. Use a Hat of Disguise (or a Hairpin of Disguise, looks classier) to conceal them. When combat begins, allow PCs to behold her true form and despair.

Edit: I'm an idiot and forgot Morphic Weaponry only works when you're in a form other than your own and she wouldn't have any forms sufficiently humanoid to Disguise as herself. A dip of MOMF would clear that up, and there's probably other ways I'm too tired to remember.

Xallace
2010-10-01, 07:47 AM
You seem to know a bit about ToB. I'd go the unarmed sword sage with twf. Monk's don't seem very vampiry if you consider roleplaying aspects.

Then again, never do swordsages, but you don't have an alignment restriction with them iirc.

You can also add on the feat from Dragon... Beast Strike, I believe? Adds your claw or slam damage to your unarmed damage. Nice little extra. Add Snap Kick (ToB), maybe Roundabout Kick (OA), and maneuvers of your choice. That's (potentially) a lot of unarmed strikes.

Myth
2010-10-01, 08:18 AM
OK here we go:

Swordsage 20, dumping Light Armour for Unarmed strike:

+15/+10/+5 at 2d10 damage. Add boots of Speed and that's +16/+16/+11/+6

Beast Strike (available on Crystal Keep) makes that at 2d10+1d6 damage.

Snap Kick makes this +16/+14/+14/+9/+4, fisr attack also adds + 1/2 STR bonus. Roundabout Kick grants another attack if you crit. but it needs PA which she won't be using, so it's a wasted feat.

Using Belt of Battle + Time Stands Still you get 3 full attacks for a single round, which equals 15 attacks. What maneuvers/stances/disciplines should she take? Also she'd need some items to help with mobility, and perhaps the Pierce magical protection/concealment feats.

Lhurgyof
2010-10-01, 08:51 AM
There's a monk feat that lets you use your unarmed strike as a ranged weapon, and stun with it as well.

Edit: There's also a monk-only feat that grants you TWO extra attacks in Sword & Fist.

Myth
2010-10-01, 08:58 AM
There's a monk feat that lets you use your unarmed strike as a ranged weapon, and stun with it as well.

Edit: There's also a monk-only feat that grants you TWO extra attacks in Sword & Fist.

Books? Names? Two extra attacks is a must!

edit: Sun School from CW can grant another attack if you teleport next to the enemy, but it requires flurry of blows.

Lhurgyof
2010-10-01, 10:12 AM
Books? Names? Two extra attacks is a must!

edit: Sun School from CW can grant another attack if you teleport next to the enemy, but it requires flurry of blows.


Ring the Golden Bell, Dragon Magazine

Lightning Fists, Sword and Fist.

Prime32
2010-10-01, 11:13 AM
What about psychic warrior 20 using form of doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm)? (plus claws of the beast and bite of the wolf)

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-01, 03:28 PM
Slam attack is a natural attack, which have their own rules... specifically that you don't get multiple attacks per round with them, normally. Slam is also the only way that a vampire can deliver the negative levels.
It never describes that a slam is specifically a punching attack, so doing a vanilla-override of it to do kicks as well isn't venturing too far.
As for increasing your slam damage, I thought that there was something about monks getting the unarmed damage value to their natural weapons, but that seems a bust.

As for getting multiple slam attacks in a full attack, there's feats for that in the Draconomicon, rapidstrike... but the prerequisites state that you have to be of certain creature types, undead is not one of which:
Rapidstrike
Dex 9, one or more pairs of natural weapons, aberration, dragon, elemental, magical beast, or plant type, base attack bonus +10
Make one extra natural weapon attack at a –5 penalty

Then there's an Improved Rapidstrike as well... but since you're the DM, (assumed by you saying that you're making the NPC) it would be an easy oversight to drop off the creature type requirements.