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Quietus
2010-10-01, 09:18 AM
As part of an ongoing idea I'm developing, I'm looking at building a female NPC who serves as an antagonist's "right hand man", so to speak. The groups I play with are generally low optimization, so I'm attempting to avoid any far-end cheese, but a nifty trick or two is always handy.

The idea :
A woman who passes as the Big Bad's secretary. Intended to be encountered early on alongside the Big Bad, before the players know who these two are. She serves as the Big Bad's bodyguard, and in combat her role is to keep things from getting to/harming her boss. She should be able to take a hit, and while she doesn't need to do a lot of damage, should be capable of playing some action denial while unarmed.

The build as in my head :
Currently looking at going pure monk, with the Mineral Warrior template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) to provide damage reduction, so that she doesn't just straight up fall to the action economy. Intention is to stack up Stunning Fist options; She'll start with roughly 6 class levels, and Human as the base race, currently thinking about Weapon Finesse and Dodge at level 1, Pain Touch at level 3 (cwarrior, adds a round of nausea after the stunning from a Stunning Fist), and Defensive Throw at 6th (Cwarrior, lets you make a trip attempt if your Dodge target misses you in combat). I'm also open to dropping dodge/defensive throw for Ability Focus and something else at 6th, if good ideas occur. Stat focus would be on Wis/Dex/Con in that order, aided by the con boost from Mineral Warrior. She should be functional from 6th-12th level, roughly, as the campaign is likely to go beyond that.

Build rules :
In general, any Complete material goes. Psionics are out (setting consideration), as is ToB (I don't own it). Races Of books are typically available.

So. As a Big Bad's backup for a low-optimization group, does that sound reasonable? Being that damage from her is not a concern (the BBEG will be using Sneak Attack, probably with TWF for combat purposes, which the stunning and flanking will assist with), the focus on action denial is intended to even the playing field between a group of two and a group of four. Also, anything that would make her Trip attempts more effective vs. more typical heavy melee types would be helpful, as I know her strength isn't a super high priority, and as it stands she's only got +5 to Trip attempts, plus her Strength modifier.

::Edit:: also a consideration : Weakening Touch (cwarrior) can be used to give a -6 to a target's strength score for 1 minute. This would also be helpful, particularly for tripping, but difficult to find a spot for it, barring dropping Defensive Throw at 6th... which is part of the whole tripping schtick in the first place.

Holocron Coder
2010-10-01, 10:02 AM
If you're really heading for control via trips and such, instead go for an Unarmed Swordsage with a focus on Setting Sun. Lots of trips and throws and handles much better than a monk.

Quietus
2010-10-01, 10:08 AM
I'm pretty sure I mentioned "no ToB as I do not own it". I did, right? I'm pretty sure that was in there. Should I go back and look again?

jiriku
2010-10-01, 10:23 AM
You could use a better monk, like the revised monk in my sig. But your basic concept of tripping and stunning is pretty solid. Just compare her attack bonus, stunning fist save DC, and trip modifier to the AC, Fort save, and trip modifiers of the party to make sure she has a decent chance of success.

Mando Knight
2010-10-01, 10:28 AM
Personally, I'd think Wizard would fit better for a secretary:

"Here to see Mr. Big Bad? Well, I'll have to set you up for a 3:00... with Gated Balors!"

"Please sign here, Mr. Hero."
I, the undersigned, have hereby read this document and have thus activated

EXPLOSIVE RUNES!

:smalltongue:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-10-01, 10:33 AM
Personally, I'd think Wizard would fit better for a secretary:

"Here to see Mr. Big Bad? Well, I'll have to set you up for a 3:00... with Gated Balors!"

"Please sign here, Mr. Hero."
I, the undersigned, have hereby read this document and have thus activated

EXPLOSIVE RUNES!

:smalltongue:

this + infinity.... also for some reason I got this image on my head when reading this thread

http://bleachh.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/nanaoise.gif

true_shinken
2010-10-01, 10:37 AM
Your idea looks solid. Go for it.

Quietus
2010-10-01, 10:52 AM
this + infinity.... also for some reason I got this image on my head when reading this thread

http://bleachh.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/nanaoise.gif

Somewhat, except more of a power .. suit? Dress? wearing type. And less freaking out over things. Glad to hear that the general idea seems like a solid one - I'm avoiding the wizard thing for this, though, 'cause I already have a caster in the BBEG's group... "stolen" from a bit of rule bastardization I did earlier, involving dragon HD granting sorcerer casting for a nasty gish, and a dragon's skull used as a grabby-type weapon that can still use its breath weapon. He's more the loose cannon of the group, given a general destructive direction to go in, and let loose. The BBEG is the planner of the trio, a rogue-type, who will take advantage of the stunned opponents that the Badass Secretary is providing. But only when pulled into a combat situation, of course - he tries to avoid them as best he can.

true_shinken
2010-10-01, 11:17 AM
Actually, I'm stealing this concept for my game. ^^

LibraryOgre
2010-10-01, 11:49 AM
I'm picturing this character as sorta like Mercy Graves? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Graves)

I would probably go straight rogue, or maybe ranger/rogue, perhaps with a custom fighting style (that included free improved trip and so on). Rogue adds some sneak attack for that devastating opening. Ranger adds some favored enemy bonuses.

Monk isn't a bad choice in this case. I'd shy away from spellcasters, though, since you seem to be going for someone who cannot overshadow the boss... just takes care of things for them.

Choco
2010-10-01, 12:02 PM
I did something like this with a butler character once. I used a throwing build, and in keeping with that cliche he had loads of hidden throwing knives all over him. Also had him take the improved and superior unarmed strike feats in case it came down to having to fight unarmed, and as expected he was a better monk than a monk...

Greenish
2010-10-01, 12:18 PM
Hmm, changeling barbarian2/fighter2/warshaper2 (filling to at least 4).

Changeling (ECS/RoE/MM3) can look like a human, but qualifies for Warshaper (CWar) for such bodyguard-y abilities as reach for natural weapons (such as unarmed strikes), immunity to crits and fast healing.

Feats: IUS, Imp. Trip (wolf totem barbarian 2), Imp. Grapple, Combat Reflexes, Scorpion's Grasp.

Not huge damage (except by shaping several natural attacks to go with IUS), but good at denying actions. Being in a grapple means losing one's dex to AC against every other attacker, so she could ensure some safe SA for her master.

[Edit]: Wolf Totem Barbarian is from UA (and SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures )), Scorpion's Grasp is from Sandstorm, so I don't know if it's available for you. It's basically Improved Grab for as a feat.

Quietus
2010-10-01, 05:20 PM
I'm picturing this character as sorta like Mercy Graves? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Graves)

I would probably go straight rogue, or maybe ranger/rogue, perhaps with a custom fighting style (that included free improved trip and so on). Rogue adds some sneak attack for that devastating opening. Ranger adds some favored enemy bonuses.

Monk isn't a bad choice in this case. I'd shy away from spellcasters, though, since you seem to be going for someone who cannot overshadow the boss... just takes care of things for them.

Reading about Mercy Graves, the comparison is.. apt. I plan to play The Boss as being Luthorish as it is; The pair do attempt to avoid combat as best they can, while going about their business. It's just so.. common. They'll both have plenty of hide/move silently going on, and she'll have a selection of mobility-based skills, while he'll have mostly social stuff. The difference here is that when The Boss *is* forced into combat, the Badass Secretary can support him with flanking, stunning, and tripping.

Build-wise, I'm liking the Changeling idea, if I can get hold of the stats for them. If she can be any face he needs her to be, then that certainly increases her value to him. I think I'll stick to the Monk chassis though, because it's strong *enough* for the groups I run for.. I may keep the mineral warrior idea for some DR, since it's easy to take down one target if everyone gangs up on her. But taking Monk to 6 for some tasty free feats, boosts to speed, unarmored AC, and a decent unarmed strike would do quite nicely, followed by entering Warshaper at level 7.. after the players first encounter her.

Feat-wise, that means having Ability Focus or Weapon Finesse, depending, at level 1.. followed by Pain Touch at third and Weakening Touch at sixth. I think I can skip the Defensive Throw for now.. and instead have her use a full attack action to Flurry, dropping a Weakening Touch with her first attack, and using the second to initiate a trip. Once she's got some Warshaper-boosted strength, and if I can get a decent strength score for her to start, I'll be adding +10ish to her Trip attempts.. and the Weakening Touch means her opponents will be 3 points lower on theirs. For the people I run for, this should be fine. In fact, it should be INCREDIBLY frustrating.. particularly when added to the fact that Stunned targets drop their weapons, are subject to sneak attacks, and are nauseated for a round after that to boot.

Tharck
2010-10-01, 05:28 PM
Make her the sneak attacking thief but give her TWF Spring Attack and the Spring Attacks from PHB2 (I think) that allow her to make more than 1 attack while she runs past the PC. BBEG Ranger with the PHB2 Alternate to drop his animal companion and give "Flanking" to 1 attack anytme he shoots an opponent. Make them a mobile retreating team and it can be pretty annoying and deadly - not only do they retreat but it hurts to follow.

BRC
2010-10-01, 05:45 PM
I'm thinking a Factotum. Give her a couple area denial /crowd control spells , the skill checks she needs to serve as an efficient evil secretary. Give her Improved Unarmed Strike and some hidden weapons, she can use Inspiration Points to give her bonuses on trip checks for example.

Soranar
2010-10-01, 06:08 PM
At lower levels monks aren't so bad

But if you go for a level 6 character that you want to use to trip people, I'd imagine a master thrower build (fighter bab class 5/master thrower 1) with the trip shot feat to make ranged tripping attacks based on DEX (she could throw letter openers/daggers and pens/darts).

Race: human
alignment: guessing some kind of lawful, a chaotic secretary wouldn't be very useful

templates: no real need for one

Now, you want to use her to back up your main character, who makes sneak attacks. So what about an urban ranger with the distracting attack feature? (and you can use the TWF tree to get extra dagger throws)

and drop your spellcasting for a bonus feat too (from complete champion)

you gain quick draw for free from master thrower
your attacks distract your opponent even without tripping them , the point is to disable opponents, not the damage output (although considering the number of attacks she'd get)

1 Ranger Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: dagger
2 Ranger bonus feat: TWF
3 Ranger Precise Shot
4 Ranger bonus feat: rapid shot
5 Ranger
6 Master Thrower Improved TWF

at level 6 you'd have 6 attacks when using rapid shot , with a decent DEX score she could be pretty useful

Dralnu
2010-10-01, 09:40 PM
Personally, I'd think Wizard would fit better for a secretary:

"Here to see Mr. Big Bad? Well, I'll have to set you up for a 3:00... with Gated Balors!"

"Please sign here, Mr. Hero."
I, the undersigned, have hereby read this document and have thus activated

EXPLOSIVE RUNES!

:smalltongue:

{{scrubbed}}

Randel
2010-10-01, 11:00 PM
Tossing out some ideas:

A succubus. Maybe she is really a sort of devil who is in the bosses employ. Normally she looks like a normal human but has supernatural abilities that helps her deal with anyone trying to make an appointment with her boss (use her charms to help win them over to their side or use her supernatural powers to destroy them). Maybe some teleportation powers as well to wisk her boss and herself out of danger. Plus, if she's an outsider then if she is destroyed in the material plane then she might be restored in her home plane to 'teleconference' with her boss to help out in other ways.


A green hag. Similar to the above, but I remember reading a Dragon article that had more about green hags, particularly how they can make little eyeball things that they can disguise as gems or similar objects. They can see through these at-will to spy on people or watch over their lairs. Perhaps the secretary has these all over the place to keep track of her bosses affairs. She stays in a disguised form of an attractive woman unless it becomes necessary to drop it (maybe she also flirts with some of the more disposable males that the boss runs into in his dealings. Anyone who tries to sleep around with the secretary suddenly discovers that she's a 300 year old swamp monster that eats people... then they go insane and die horribly).


Abrupt Jaunt. The Abrupt Jaunt ability in PBHII allows a conjurer wizard to teleport a short distance as an immediate action, which could help her avoid attacks or escape danger. Even one or two immediate teleports a day could help her survive the few times she gets into combat. Plus, even if its only a one-level dip then that gives her access to some spellcasting (like casting grease, summoning a mount, or maybe benign transposition which lets her switch the positions of her allies).

Amanuensis - a utility cantrip in Spell Compendium. Lets her photocopy pages at a rate of 250 words a minute for 10 minutes per caster level. No secretary should go without this.

Shrink Item - Helps her keep stuff on hand by shrinking it into little patches or pictures and filing them away into a book or folder. During battle she can reach into her folder and toss a cumbersome object into the battlefield to mess with the heroes. She could pull out cages, huge pieces of furnature, piles of meat for monsters, piles of caltrops, or other items and just dump them in front of the heroes.

FelixG
2010-10-02, 05:27 AM
Depending on the build you decide to go with, one interesting thematic device she could use:

She has quills or other writing instruments on her. She also has an inkwell for writing on things. Catch: Inside the inkwell that she uses to write is a poison the dries dark, while the PCs are still at a range she can use her poisoned writing utensils as ranged thrown weapons (using the stats for a dart as that's core and i know you have it :P)

Could just be one more thing that makes your players go "OMG thats a cool secretary"

Quietus
2010-10-02, 07:45 AM
Depending on the build you decide to go with, one interesting thematic device she could use:

She has quills or other writing instruments on her. She also has an inkwell for writing on things. Catch: Inside the inkwell that she uses to write is a poison the dries dark, while the PCs are still at a range she can use her poisoned writing utensils as ranged thrown weapons (using the stats for a dart as that's core and i know you have it :P)

Could just be one more thing that makes your players go "OMG thats a cool secretary"

Hmm... I rather like this, actually. I also like the Shrink Item idea and the ranged tripping; There's certainly a lot of very valuable spells that she could really gain some use out of. Looks like I've got three possibilities at this point for builds :

1) The original monk-based, "reflexive" style fighter with Stunning Fist applications and trips for support. Possibly using a Changeling base and going Warshaper past level 6. Cons : I see Mineral Warrior as being pretty necessary here, since she's one half of a squishy team, and I'm not sure how passing her off as being literally "made of marble" agrees with my mental everything. Also, the Warshaper's signature "masses of bigger natural weapons" is kind of out-of-genre.

2) Ranger/Master Thrower. The nice thing here is is that the trips will be dex-based, and the throwing of office supplies is amusing AND in-genre. Cons : She is still one half of a very squishy team, and they have no built-in melee presence. Less of a problem when the third member of the Boss's team is present, but when outnumbered, they would be forced to retreat rather than fight.

3) Spellcaster of some sort. This has the obvious bonuses of being a freaking wizard or sorcerer, and all the power that entails. However, it doesn't solve the "squishy" problem, despite offering a number of excellent utility devices.

I think the solution here is that instead of having a file of things under the effects of Shrink Item, I'll be giving her a Handy Haversack refluffed as an extradimensional file folder. Perhaps later on, when they need some very large things transported, I'll use the third member - the fighter/sorcerer blend - to provide Shrink Item services. Between 1) and 2), I'm thinking I'll stick with 1) simply because I *expect* this duo to be outnumbered by at least 2:1 most times, and the Stunning Fist applications seem like they would be better for avoiding being completely steamrolled by that. The ranged tripper is a very interesting idea, and I may drop Warshaper and instead fold the two ideas together in later encounters with these two (or three), but for now I think the Stunning Fist applications are a better investment for slowing down players.

Nihb
2010-10-02, 07:55 AM
Did something along those lines once. A cold, but somewhat helpful, gnome "expert", who actually was a lawful evil wizard. Wizards have some great spells for this kind of characters. They can use divination to know the wherabouts of someone or something they need, the can disguise on the spot, can plant ideas in others' minds... Wizard don't have to be nerds that look like Mialee. Give her charisma so she can bluff her way out, maybe intimidate for flavor (though a wizard gets only a few class skills).

Sure, you could get a more physical, swordsage/awesome kickass mortal swift kick to the neck vorpal booted hand of fury. But for subtility, a bard, a rogue or a wizard woud be great places to start.

If you want resilience, try the half-dragon night hag. It's funny.

CapnVan
2010-10-02, 08:20 AM
I believe you've left out:
Weapon Focus (Spiked Heels)
Perform (Gum Chewing)
Craft (Excuses)

Quietus
2010-10-02, 09:07 AM
I believe you've left out:
Weapon Focus (Spiked Heels)
Perform (Gum Chewing)
Craft (Excuses)

That's the young and fiesty version of the secretary. Mine's the refined, subtly intimidating woman who acts as a gatekeeper for anyone getting to her Boss.

And yes, I'm going for subtlety, but not with regard to her combat style. When in "Secretary mode", she doesn't seem that offensive. She assists her Boss, gets in the way of people getting to him (unless he wants to talk to them), and generally makes sure that things are kept properly organized and taken care of. When in combat, while she isn't FLASHY, she's not intended to be subtle; She's that one chick who, when you go to attack her, you abruptly find yourself laying flat on your back, possibly with no idea when it happened.

wizuriel
2010-10-02, 11:06 AM
I really picture this character kind of like Owen Burnett from Gargoyles (just female). I know its not on your list of books, but a totemist or incarnate would be great for this type of character (would be really flexible while still being able to handle a front line fighter support character).


If you haven't would look at some skill tricks from complete scoundrel for this character. Stuff like running up walls would be very fitting.

UserShadow7989
2010-10-02, 07:55 PM
Since you're going for a character that seems harmless at first, Monk is a good choice as a base. Carrying a bunch of weapons around will sort of ruin the 'holy crap, the lady in high heels carrying a portfolio is beating us silly' mystique. Of course, either find a good Monk fix or don't go past 6 levels if you stick with the Monk. (There's been a suggestion for a Monk fix earlier in this thread, and there's another in my sig if that one doesn't satisfy. You can even just run a search for Monk fixes on this very site).

The ideas Quietus put forward are pretty good too. For some magical abilities, a few levels of Bard could fit in- charm person works wonders at business meetings and keeping worker's morale up. Fascinate adds another option to set up for Sneak Attacks (Perform (Oratory) ensures she doesn't have to break out instruments or randomly sing- a speech or even a firm admonishment for doing a crappy job will suffice). They gain Expeditious Retreat which is always a big help for movement based characters.

BAB is the same as the Monk's, so no loss there. HD is only 1 size down, annoying but not terrible. Of course, the problem here is she'll be reliant on Cha on top of the rest, assuming you don't reduce the Monk part of her to just 1 or 2 levels. It's a possible mix with just about anything, though.

Quietus
2010-10-03, 08:05 AM
Mmm... bard-mix is interesting, yeah. Actually I was thinking about the possibility of going Warshaper for two levels (immunity to stunning, criticals, and through criticals, sneak attack helps with longevity), plus 4 strength/con would be handy. A dip into Bard would certainly make for some annoying Fascinate based shenanigans, but since that would only affect a single target, I doubt it's worth the investment. I think Warshaper is the order of the day, particularly since all those fancy abilities only show when they're being used, so she can pass as being "normal" for as long as she likes before whipping out the crazy long arms and such. And Warshaper to 4th would take her to 10th level, after which I could do... something, not precisely sure what. We'll see how the story advances by that point, I suppose. :smalltongue:

Hackulator
2010-10-03, 08:34 AM
if she's supposed to be a bodyguard, this seems like a perfect situation for a Knight wearing glamered plate mail.

"HIT HER SHE'S ONLY WEARING A BUSINESS SUIT!"

*CLANG*

"uh oh...."

Randel
2010-10-03, 12:40 PM
Or maybe she's wearing a chainmail bikini under her business clothes?

*clang* *clang*

Fighter: Dammit, I can't put a scratch on her! She's too strong.
Rogue: You idiot, stop hitting her boobs. They're the only part of her body with armor on them.
Fighter: I CAN'T! It's like trying to not hit the broad side of a barn! They're too big!

Secretary slaps the fighter across the face and throws him across the room.

Rogue: Oh great, now you made her angry.

Quietus
2010-10-03, 06:27 PM
Hah... amusing mental image, but unfortunately for the childish part of my mind, this character is intended to be more serious than that. Perhaps for another crazy woman badass, sometime, though..

FelixG
2010-10-03, 09:15 PM
Hah... amusing mental image, but unfortunately for the childish part of my mind, this character is intended to be more serious than that. Perhaps for another crazy woman badass, sometime, though..

As crazy as the original idea of the armor is... perhaps platemail or chainmail that has an illusion on it to make it appear like robes or some such of a high ranking official.

They go and try to smack her and the robes shimmer and the plates that the illusion really conceals come into view before the fighter gets nailed in the head with something heavy.

Randel
2010-10-03, 10:57 PM
Well, there's also the Mage Armor and Shield spells (and Greater Mage Armor in Spell Compendium). Maybe she could have bracers of Mage Armor or some other method of getting magical armor.

Perhaps she has something like a potion of Mage Armor, except that its a tile or a badge or something. Then when combat starts she activates it to give her an armor bonus for the duration of the fight.

No need for her to walk around in clunky armor all the time, she's a secretary with a professional business suit. She can afford to keep a few one-shot magic items on her person to use in the rare cases she has to go into battle. Heck, she could have them in her file folder and she just put them there a long time ago and pulls them out when needed.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-10-03, 11:01 PM
If you are going monk, go Monk2. But really, I think this is a job for Warlock

Hellfire Glaivelock, to be specific. Mineral Warrior to provide DR to protect herself. Then, when they piss her off, a 10' blade of coherent energy burning with the fires of hell itself come down for some 20d6 a hit. Plus Chilling Tentacles, Utterdark Blast, Chain Blast, Slow Blast, and others. Fell Flight and Flee The Scene gives her maneuverability to get out of trouble when they try to trap her.

true_shinken
2010-10-03, 11:13 PM
If you are going monk, go Monk2. But really, I think this is a job for Warlock

Monk/Warlock is decent if you use Eldritch Claws.
Warlock/Shou Disciple is devious and a lot better, though.

bign10
2010-10-03, 11:14 PM
Monk into devoted defender from sword and fist would work great for your idea. Just would have to redo some parts of it assuming you don't mind 3.0 material. :smallsmile:

742
2010-10-03, 11:39 PM
I'm picturing this character as sorta like Mercy Graves? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Graves)

I would probably go straight rogue, or maybe ranger/rogue, perhaps with a custom fighting style (that included free improved trip and so on). Rogue adds some sneak attack for that devastating opening. Ranger adds some favored enemy bonuses.

Monk isn't a bad choice in this case. I'd shy away from spellcasters, though, since you seem to be going for someone who cannot overshadow the boss... just takes care of things for them.

rogue with the sneak attack modifying feats from complete scoundrel can get you a few rounds of confusion and stun, and a small DOT that doesnt stop until the healer heals *that* character; trip and disarm are also shiny.