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View Full Version : Pathfinder - RANGER advice : TWF, Archery, ''switch hitter'' ?



wallofterror
2010-10-03, 04:02 PM
I am starting a KINGMAKER campaign and so we have as a party:

-Barabarian
-Fighter (TWF)
-Summoner
-Rogue (ranged...)
-Sorcerer/Fighter(bow)

and me a Ranger.

I was thinking of making a swirch hitter ranger using bonus feats to get archery feats and other feats to get melee feats.

Do you guys think I should concentrate on doing just archery(there is already a couple of ranged players in the party) or Two-weapon fighting(wich i would like to try...)

thanks for help and advices

Seatbelt
2010-10-03, 04:45 PM
There is the bowstaff. Its a bow, but also a quarterstaff. Quarterstaves, if I remember correctly, can be wielded for TWF. Not sure it's optimal, but it is cool.

Eldariel
2010-10-03, 05:23 PM
Are you sure you want a straight Ranger? I find that kind of multi focus tends to work better with some multiclassing in the mix.

VirOath
2010-10-04, 06:54 PM
Are you sure you want a straight Ranger? I find that kind of multi focus tends to work better with some multiclassing in the mix.

No, no no no no no!

Pathfinder rangers rock, and rock hard, right out of the box.

And to the OP, you either want an Archery build, or a Switch Hitter 2handed style. But, it's a bit of a misleading statement. You want to build yourself as a 2h melee fighter, but pick your style as Archery. This is because the feat choices for the 2h style are rather wasteful and bad, while being able to Rapid Shot Manyshot with Improved Precise Shot without annoying and dumb prereqs like Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot is just awesome.

I'm playing one myself, you take a heavier Str investment and can get by with a 13 in dex, not joking. First round of combat or so you will normally ping with a bow, and then use quickdraw (no later than level 3 to get this one) to switch to a big 2hander and go to town (PA is nerfed because of limits, buffed by efficiency, 3 per 1 for 2h).

Your spell list is damn good, your animal companion isn't doomed to suckage, and you will get to the point quickly that you will hardly ever fail a perception or survival roll.

Bah, I could rant on for a while, but there is a handbook you can use that details the 3 main PF builds for rangers, using core only too, so you can swap for class features as desired to play something that fits your idea or story better. Just really avoid TWF, for a ranger it will take close to level 10 before it starts to provide situational better returns than 2handing, though PF TWF is rather buffed compared to 3.5

Treatmonks PF Ranger Handbook (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/treantmonk-s-guide-to-rangers)

Eldariel
2010-10-04, 07:18 PM
No, no no no no no!

Pathfinder rangers rock, and rock hard, right out of the box.

PF Rangers work fine...for either-or. For a combination, you want multiclassing.

VirOath
2010-10-04, 07:40 PM
PF Rangers work fine...for either-or. For a combination, you want multiclassing.

For either Archery, or Melee? Not Switch Hitting? Maybe if someone is trying a TWF build, as fighter would be needed at the very least to lessen the feat strain.

But the core ranger does exceptionally well at Switch Hitting. Taking the Archery style and getting Rapid Shot at 2nd, Deadly Shot at 5th, Manyshot at 6th, and Improved Precise Shot at 10th still leaves your 1st, 3rd, 7th and 9th feats open yet giving you most of the goodies of a dedicated archer. Power Attack and Quick Draw give you the founding for a strong Melee 2h fighter right there, and that can be a 1st level human. Pick up Cleave, Vital Strike, or whatever melee feats you desire from there. Really all you need to be every effective.

As a ranger, you don't need to meet prereqs for your bonus feats, so you skip the filler, don't need Precise Shot as you'll rarely ever shoot into melee, you'll be there. This means your can pump Str over Dex as you don't need to meet the stat requirements. This means that your stats will be similar to the fighter's.

Yet, you get a butload of skills, and class features to augment them. Survival, Stealth and Perception will give you excellent scouting ability, let you track anything in the world almost, and not burden you with silly things like Rations. Handle Animal becomes rather useful with your animal companion or just with training up a pack of warhounds while you got downtime.

But, for combat you will never be alone past level 4. Your animal companion can be a great flanking partner, and the list includes beasts with free trip attacks or grab attacks that don't provoke AoOs. So it's having a mini CC fighter with you that scales with your level and doesn't suck, as it's your Ranger Level -3.

Same goes for your spell list at level 5. Great spells like Entangle end up on that list, and all spells are no longer half of your ranger level for CL, rather it's now Ranger Level -3.

A ranger makes a powerful switch hitter, I'm playing one in a campaign right now. And Multiclassing hurts your Animal Companion, hurts your casting, hurts your bonus feat progression, hurts your skills. Really can't think of a reason why I'd ever want to multiclass out of this build, and I'm playing a variant that gives up spellcasting entirely!

Seriously, read the handbook, then come back and prove that a ranger can't Switch Hit.

Edit: Might as well put up my character to prove this. Level 4 ranger, without magic items. Dwarf for flavor, gave up the spell casting for flavor (as it is also a lower magic campaign, magic items will be rarer, the only thing I have that gives me any bonus is my Masterworked Mighty +3 bow). 17 Str gives me +3/+5 Hit/Dam for a Great Axe from stat alone. 14 Dex for ranged combat. Full BAB, with a small cat animal companion. Hitting with Power Attack lowers my total to hit from a 7 to a 5, and changes my damage bonus to D12+11. Rapid Shot lets me shoot two ranged attacks instead of one at a +5 to hit. Quick Draw lets me swap seamlessly from Ranged to Melee combat at a moment's notice.

Rixx
2010-10-04, 08:34 PM
Have you considered the Skirmisher variant from the Advanced Player's Guide? You lose spells, but get a bunch of neat "Ranger Tricks" to make up for it.

If you're going to switch-hit, I'd recommend taking TWF as your combat style as it's rather feat-intensive. (Well, they both are.) The TWF combat style lets you get your fourth attack right when you hit BAB +6, which is lovely.

Deadly Aim is a feat you should take ASAP - that one feat, along with a decent composite bow, will help you to lay down the hurt from afar fairly easily.

wallofterror
2010-10-04, 10:03 PM
Thanks all for help.

I will try switch hitter.

Only thing is I dont have enough starting money(250g)to buy a composite longbow.

Maybe I'll try to get one during the campaign.

Mando Knight
2010-10-05, 12:19 AM
Even if you didn't end up switch-hitting, it's a given that you should invest in at least one melee and one ranged weapon. The former for close-in fighting where you can't avoid enough opportunity attacks to justify using the bow, and the latter for pegging that bozo from a hundred or so feet, or to coax that flying nutter to come down and fight you mano-a-mano.

VirOath
2010-10-05, 12:59 AM
Thanks all for help.

I will try switch hitter.

Only thing is I dont have enough starting money(250g)to buy a composite longbow.

Maybe I'll try to get one during the campaign.

Just a plain longbow, or even a crossbow will work. You won't be Rapidshotting until second level anyways, you can sell it later. At first level, ranged might not come into play all that often either.

Once you get past second level, you should be looking at investing into a bow. I actually upgraded my bow before upgrading my axe.

Dizlag
2010-10-05, 09:07 AM
Grab Craft(bows), get a masterwork set of artisan tools (50gp), and make yourself a composite longbow with +1 Str (200gp) for 66.67gp (1/3 the price) or a total of 116.67gp for the bow materials and tools. It's a start and here's how you get there ... the Craft DC will be 17 and you'll be able to take 10 on it. You can get a +7 on the skill by putting 1 rank into it, +3 from it being a class skill, +2 masterwork tools, and a +1 Int modifier.

:smallbiggrin:

Dizlag

n00b killa
2010-10-05, 09:43 AM
You can grab an 18 DEX and about a 14 STR, become half elf (for the substitution racial feature that gives you proficiency with any weapon, from the APG) and pick up an Elven Curve blade and weapon finesse.

That way you end up with awesome to hit for both melee and ranged that will give you better money for your bows and for your PA and Deadly Aim.

Combine this with broad arrows and you will be puting out a lot of damage.