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BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 07:15 PM
Skippy the Dancing Venerable Dragonwrought White Dragonspawn Loredrake Desert Phrenic Magic-Blooded Kobold

4 Sorcerer/1 Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian/2 Swiftblade/2 Abjurant Champion/1 Spelldancer/+2 Abjurant Champion/+8 Swiftblade

Spells as 19th level sorcerer (Caster Level 21)
Manifester Level 20
BAB: 17

Ability Scores: 32 PB; adjusted for races & templates
STR - 9 (3)
DEX - 16 (4) --> 22
CON - 16 (6) --> 22
INT - 16 (3)
WIS - 12 (3) +6 (Enhancement) = 18
CHA - 26 (13) + 5 (Levels) + 5 (Inherent) + 6 = 42 + 4 (Unlisted: Inner Beauty) + 4 (Moral: Snowsong) = 50

Familiar: Rat

1 - Sorcerer: Dragonwrought, Expeditious Dodge (flaw), Mobility/Divine Sorcery - Destiny (Psyref Mobility out after armor below obtained) (flaw), Draconic Rite of Passage
2 - Sorcerer
3 - Sorcerer: Draconic Reservoir
4 - Sorcerer: +1 CHA
5 - Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian
6 - Swiftblade: Combat Casting, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage
7 - Swiftblade
8 - Abjurant Champion:, +1 CHA
9 - Abjurant Champion: Endurance
10 - Spelldancer
11 - Abjurant Champion
12 - Abjurant Champion: Arcane Strike, +1 CHA
13 - Swiftblade
14 - Swiftblade
15 - Swiftblade: Extend Spell
16 - Swiftblade: +1 CHA
17 - Swiftblade
18 - Swiftblade: Persist Spell
19 - Swiftblade
20 - Swiftblade: +1 CHA

Spells Known at 20: (19th level sorcerer)
1 - (5) Nerveskitter, Shield, True Casting, True Strike, Unseen Servant, Detect Secret Doors (3x/day - Runestaff), Identify (3x/day SLA - Draconic Rite of Passage + Draconic Reservoir)
2 - (5) Wraithstrike, Resist Energy, Web, Wings of Cover, Rope Trick, Locate Object (3x/day - Runestaff)
3 - (4) Haste, Dragonskin, Slow, Greater Magic Weapon, Tongues (1x/day - Runestaff), Battlemagic Perception (3x/day - Runestaff), Spellcaster's Bane (1x/day - Runestaff), Shrink Item (Knowstone)
4 - (4) Greater Mirror Image, Celerity, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Greater Luminous Armor, Inner Beauty (Drake Helm), Greater Invisibility (Drake Helm), Locate Creature (3x/day - Runestaff)
5 - (4) Arcane Fusion, Draconic Polymorph, Greater Dimension Door, Telekinesis, Prying Eyes (3x/day - Runestaff), Duelward (3x/day - Runestaff)
6 - (3) Starmantle, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Greater Dispel Magic, Snowsong (Drake Helm), True Seeing (1x/day - Runestaff)
7 - (3) Limited Wish, Arcane Spellsurge, Elemental Body
8 - (2) Ghostform, Mystic Shield, Avascular Mass
9 - (1) Shapechange, Shades, Choose Destiny (Destiny Domain)

Spells/Day
0 - 6
1 - 6 + 5 = 11
2 - 6 + 5 = 11
3 - 6 + 5 = 11
4 - 6 + 5 = 11
5 - 6 + 4 = 10
6 - 6 + 4 = 10
7 - 6 + 4 = 10
8 - 6 + 4 = 10
9 - 4 + 3 = 7

Psi-Like Abilities - Manifester Level 20, augmented as though spending ML in power points for each
3/day - Defensive Precognition, Empty Mind, Mind Thrust, Intellect Fortress, Psionic Teleport
1/day - Force Screen, Body Adjustment, Brain Lock, Aversion, Psionic Blast, Psychic Crush, Psionic Dominate, Energy Current, Tower of Iron Will, Fission, Ultrablast

HP: 252 (max hit points per level)

Power/Spell Resistance: 30

Speed: 30 (Base) + 30 (Haste) + 10 (Slippers) + 5 (Armor enhancement) + 20 (Swift Surge) = 95 Land/Flight (Perfect), 190 (Flight: Average)

Initiative: 6 (Dex) + 5 (Insight/Scimitar) + 25 (Arcane Reflexes/Competence) +5 Nerveskitter (Untyped) = 41

AC: 10 (Base) + 6 (Dex bonus) + 12 (Armor Bonus) + 12 (Natural Armor Bonus) + 20 (Deflection from Ghostform) + 8 (Shield) + 3 (Dodge) 1 + 1 (Size) = 72 + 4 (Mobility vs. AoO) = 76 + 8 (Wings of Cover) = 84

Touch AC: 10 (Base) + 6 (Dex) + 20 (Deflection) + 3 (Dodge) +1 (Size) = 40

Attack: 17 (BAB) + 20 (CHA) + 5 (GMW) + 1 (Haste) +1 (Size) = 44/39/34/29 against Touch AC before Arcane Strike (add 20 when using True Strike)

Damage: 1d4 + 5 (GMW) + 20 (CHA) + 20 (Fire/CHA) + 2d6 (Swiftblade) = 1d4 + 45 + 2d6 before Arcane Strike

Saves:
Fort: 1 1/3(Sorc) / 2.5 (Barbarian) / 1/3 (Spelldancer) / 1 1/3 (Abjurant Champion) / 3 1/3 (Swiftblade) = 8.833 Base + 6 (CON) + 5 (Resistance) + 20 (RDF) + 2 (Familiar) = 41.833 = 41
Ref: 1 1/3 (Sorc) / 1/3 (Barbarian) / 2.5 (Spelldancer) / 1 1/3 (Abjurant Champion) / 7 (Swiftblade) = 12.5 Base + 6 (DEX) + 5 (Resistance) + 20 (RDF) +2 (Swift Surge) = 45.5 = 45
Will: 4 (Sorc) / 1/3 (Barbarian) / 2.5 (Spelldancer) / 4 (Abjurant Champion) / 7 (Swiftblade) = 17.833 Base + 4 (WIS) + 5 (Resistance) + 20 (RDF) = 46.833 = 46

The Morning Spelldance
Persisted/Extended Spells via Spelldance:
Shield, Ruin Delver's Fortune x3, Greater Mirror Image, Mystic Shield, Ghost Form, Dragonskin, Wraithstrike, True Seeing (Runestaff), Arcane Spellsurge, Choose Destiny, Inner Beauty, Snowsong, True Seeing, Greater Invisibility, Shapechange, Greater Luminous Armor, Elemental Body, Tongues, Greater Magic Weapon, Duelward, Battlemagic Perception, Spellcaster's Bane

After resting to recuperate spells, wake up in the morning and don my "dancin' shoes." The DC to spelldance is 10 + Modified Spell level, so the highest DC I have to hit is 25, which is impossible for me to fail. First, perform a spelldance for 7 rounds and apply Extend and Persist to Shapechange. Next, Shapechange into a construct form that lacks magic immunity or spell resistance (such as a homunculus, or animated object) making Skippy immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability damage. Next, spelldance and use extend and persist on any spell we want, since the fatigue and exhaustion cannot affect Skippy. Enjoy the effects of all buffs for 48 hours.

Effects of Spelldance:
By persisting the above spells via spelldance, Skippy gains an extraordinarily high armor class and saves. He gains Greater Mirror Image for 24 hours. Ghostform grants him a deflection bonus to AC, incorporeality, touch attacks for melee (can attack corporeals due to ghost touch weapon), immunity to non-magical attack forms, and the other typical ghost defenses. Mystic Shield grants him immunity to spells 6th level and below, and causes all weapons that attack him to be treated as non-magical. In this way he basically become immune to melee, especially coupled with my high AC and miss chances granted by Ghost Form, Greater Mirror Image, and Swiftblade class features. He gains perfect flight at his land speed, 60 ft. Darkvision, immunity to flanking, critical hits, and poison from Elemental Body. He gains +8 to his charisma score, which governs initiative, to-hit, bonus spells, DC's, saves, and damage. He gains the ability to attack as a touch attack. He may speak any language. He can be invisible, even while attacking. All his spells are cast as 1 step faster than they are listed. He has permanent true seeing. Skippy may roll twice for any attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check and take the better result.

Skippy utilizes Shades to create a Contingency, which activates Greater Dimension Door when he is in the area of effect of area dispel that he has not counterspelled. The Greater Dimension Door moves him to the nearest square outside the area of effect.

Just in case Skippy's contingency were to fail, he wears a shrunken, lead lined 5 foot diameter and 5 foot deep basket on top of his head. He instructs his familiar to speak the command word if his counterspell and contingency fails. This blocks line of effect to Skippy for purposes of spells like Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

Skills:
1 - Concentration (4) [4], Spellcraft (4) [4], Perform (Dance) (4) [2], Tumble (4) [2], Profession (Basket Weaving) (1) [1]
2 - Concentration (1) [5], Spellcraft (1) [5], Perform (Dance) (2) [3], Profession (Basket Weaving) (1) [2]
3 - Concentration (1) [6], Spellcraft (1) [6], Perform (Dance) (2) [4], Profession (Basket Weaving) (1) [3]
4 - Perform (Dance) (4) [6], Swim (1) [1]
5 - Concentration (2) [7], Spellcraft (2) [7], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [1], Tumble (2) [4]
6 - Concentration (2) [9], Spellcraft (2) [9], Tumble (4) [8]
7 - Concentration (1) [10], Spellcraft (1) [10], Knowledge (Arcana) (4) [5], Tumble (2) [10]
8 - Concentration (1) [11], Spellcraft (1) [11], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [7], Ride (1) [1]
9 - Concentration (1) [12], Spellcraft (1) [12], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [9], Ride (1) [2]
10 - Concentration (1) [13], Spellcraft (1) [13], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [10], Perform (Dance) (2) [8], Tumble (2) [12]
11 - Concentration (1) [14], Spellcraft (1) [14], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [12], Ride(1) [3]
12 - Concentration (1) [15], Spellcraft (1) [15], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [14], Ride(1) [4]
13 - Concentration (1) [16], Spellcraft (1) [16], Knowledge (Arcana) (2) [16], Balance (1) [1]
14 - Concentration (1) [17], Spellcraft (1) [17], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [17], Spot (1) [1], Balance (1) [2]
15 - Concentration (1) [18], Spellcraft (1) [18], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [18], Spot (3) [4], Balance (1) [3]
16 - Concentration (1) [19], Spellcraft (1) [19], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [19], Spot (1) [5], Tumble (2) [14], Balance (1) [4]
17 - Concentration (1) [20], Spellcraft (1) [20], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [20], Spot (1) [6], Tumble (2) [16], Balance (1) [5]
18 - Concentration (1) [21], Spellcraft (1) [21], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [21], Spot (1) [7], Tumble (2) [18], Balance (1) [6]
19 - Concentration (1) [22], Spellcraft (1) [22], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [22], Spot (1) [8], Tumble (2) [20], Balance (1) [7]
20 - Concentration (1) [23], Spellcraft (1) [23], Knowledge (Arcana) (1) [23], Spot (1) [9], Tumble (2) [22], Balance (1) [8]

Skill Totals:
Concentration - 23 + 6 + 5 (Tunic) = 34
Spellcraft - 23 + 3 + 10 = 36
Knowledge (Arcana) - 23 + 3 = 26
Spot - 9 + 3 + 10 = 22
Tumble - 14 + 6 + 5 (Slippers) = 25
Perform (Dance) - 8 + 14 = 22 + 5 (Dancin' Boots) = 27
Profession (Basket Weaving) = 3 + 4 = 7
Ride = 4 + 6 = 10
Balance = 8 + 6 = 14

Wealth (760,000 gp to spend)
+1 Keen (+1) Ghost Touch (+1) Everbright (2000) Transmuting (+2) Warning (+1) Sudden Stunning (2,000) Spellblade (Chain Dispel) (6000) Scimitar (84,315)
+1 Twilight Mobile Called Quickness Leather Armor (15560)
Slippers of Battledancing (33,750)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (137,500)
Dexterous (+6) Bracers (36,000)
Spiked (+1 Spellblade: Reaving Dispel) Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows (20,305)
Charismatic (+6) Cloak of Resistance +5 (61,000)
Boots of Perform (Dance) +5 (2,500)
Heward's Handy Haversack (2,000)
Wise (+6) Necklace of Health (+6) (72,000)
Ring of Arcane Might (20,000)
Ring of Negative Protection (36000)
Belt of Battle (12,000)
Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (2,500)
Spellcraft (+10) Goggles of Draconic Vision (16,000)
Orange Ioun Stone (30,000)
Jade Circlet (focus for Shapechange) (1,500)
Ruby (focus for RRR) (500)
4 x Eye Ointment (mat Comp for True Seeing) (250x4=1,000)
5 x Clear Gem (mat comp for Mystic Shield) (400x5=2,000)
20 x Pinch of Pixie's Wing Dust (mat comp for Starmantle) (20x20=400)
Skippy's Runestaff of Divination and Counterspelling (24,100)
Eternal Wand of Knock (4,420)
Knowstone (Shrink Item) (9000)
Three-slotted Drake Helm (Inner Beauty, Greater Invisibility, Snowsong) (116,000)
Field Provisions Box (2,000)
3 x Spell Component Pouch (3 x 5 = 15)
Small Steel Mirror (10)
Silk Rope (50)
Magic Bedroll (500)
Lead Lining for basket (10 gp)
17065 gp in gems

Skippy is an extremely accomplished assassin. A typical strategy is to penetrate a stronghold while invisible and incorporeal and find his quarry. He casts haste while still in the wall. Then he casts Avasculate to weaken his foe and stunning him, followed by a pouncing charge utilizing both Arcane Strike and Arcane Boost with level 8 spell slots. He full attacks in his charge with his ghost touch scimitar, dealing 1d4 + 45 + 2d6 + 16 + 8d4 damage per strike. Assuming he only misses on a 1 (and this is a fairly safe assumption, he also may reroll any 1) he deals, on average: (0.9975*(2.5+45+7+15+20) + (0.3*(2.5+45+7+15)))*5 = 550.6313 damage before his opponent has even reacted.

If his opponent lives through the first round, he full attacks again for 550.6313 damage, and activates his sudden stunning effect on his scimitar as a swift action and the opponent (if he's not dead) makes a DC 40 reflex save on each strike or be stunned for 1d4+1 rounds.

Skippy is almost entirely immune to everything. He is incorporeal, immune to all spells below level 6, he has extraordinarily high saves, armor class, and touch armor class. He is completely immune to negative levels. All spells have a 40% chance to fail entirely on him. He has evasion. Weapons that attempt to strike him lose their magical enchantments, and are destroyed completely and turn into motes of light if they hit him, doing no damage. He has spell and psionic power resistance 30. He may roll any attack roll, save, skill check, or ability check twice and take the best result. He is completely immune to Chain Dispel and Reaving Dispel. He has a contingency in place for avoiding area dispels such as Greater Dispelling Screen and Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

The Rabbler
2010-10-03, 07:23 PM
:smalleek:.

wow. That's quite a build.
/awe

your maneuver progression will be rather shabby, actually. Martial Adepts don't learn maneuvers unless their class explicitly states that they do and retraining only occurs after several levels in the base martial adept classes. You'd learn base maneuvers as a crusader 2, then you'd learn one more as a crusader 5 at level 7. After that you won't retrain or learn any other maneuvers. You could only gain the higher level maneuvers/stances by picking them up via the Martial Study/Stance feat.

I'd suggest being a swordsage instead of a crusader for this build. You net more maneuvers, stances, and (at least in my opinion) more useful class features than you would with crusader. It would require that you grab martial study x2 and martial stance to get Aura of Perfect Order, however.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 07:29 PM
:smalleek:.

wow. That's quite a build.
/awe

your maneuver progression will be rather shabby, actually. Martial Adepts don't learn maneuvers unless their class explicitly states that they do and retraining only occurs after several levels in the base martial adept classes. You'd learn base maneuvers as a crusader 2, then you'd learn one more as a crusader 5 at level 7. After that you won't retrain or learn any other maneuvers. You could only gain the higher level maneuvers/stances by picking them up via the Martial Study/Stance feat.

I'd suggest being a swordsage instead of a crusader for this build. You net more maneuvers, stances, and (at least in my opinion) more useful class features than you would with crusader.
Yeah, I had a feeling my progression was going to suffer. I can swap out a couple as I take JPM levels, but only like 2 I think.

On that note, it may be a good idea to delay my first JPM level to the end and move a swiftblade level up.

edited OP to reflect that.

Icewraith
2010-10-03, 07:36 PM
You can probably use the retraining rules in PH2 to "update" your maneuvers known as new ones become available via initiator level increase, but there may be some xp investment and you need to check with your dm.

You have greater arcane fusion on there as both an 8th and 7th level spell. So you have another 7th level spell available.

Consider getting some of the maneuver granting items since while you have the item you count as "knowing" the maneuver for purposes of other maneuvers.

If there is any way you can get your claws on a runestaff for more spellcasting options (Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic) or pocket blasting (Wings of Flurry), do it. Especially if you can get a greatsword/longsword or similar-shaped runestaff.

Crusaders get a lot of standard-action strikes, while Warblade has a few options for full attacking/multiple attacks that synergize better with arcane strike (Adamantine Hurricane, Raging Mongoose, Time Stands Still, there's a Diamond Mind 7th level one that lets you keep on attacking as long as you don't miss, which can be a while with wraithstrike and Arcane Strike going). Arcane strike is much more worth the loss of a high level spell slot if you can get a full attack off with it.

Edit: A few things about the disciplines you have access to:

Stone dragon: Most of the maneuvers only have 2-3 maneuver prerequisites. This is where Stone Dragon belt/boots/whatever the item is in TOB that grants maneuvers is going to be helpful. You probably also want a crown of white ravens and ditto the one for Devoted Spirit. Mountain Hammer and its derivatives add damage, bypass DR as a standard action. Other maneuvers force fort saves (STR based) or cause the target to lose actions.

Devoted Spirit: The best maneuvers are the ones that heal your buddes and deal damage, but you don't get the top-of-the-line 9th level maneuver. A number of the maneuvers assume you're using a non-buckler shield, so decide whether you're using one or write those out of consideration.

White Raven: A lot of charging-based maneuvers, some battlefield control-esque abilities but most require saves to halt enemy AoOs or similar. Since you're packing celerity and nerveskitter, you might as well round out your initiative and turn-monkeying abilities with White Raven Tactics.

The Rabbler
2010-10-03, 07:37 PM
two additional levels of JPM would give you an additional maneuver, one additional maneuver readied, and empowering strike. I'm not too familiar with swiftblades, so don't know what you'd be giving up, so I can't give advice, but I'm not 100% sure that it would be worthwhile.

if you could take 2 more levels of JPM somewhere late in the build, you could get Aura of Perfect Order, as JPM grants a stance (as well as a maneuver) at level 5. By my count, you'd need to take the 5th level after level 16 to get the Aura of Perfect Order.

EDIT'd to reflect OP changes.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 07:40 PM
You can probably use the retraining rules in PH2 to "update" your maneuvers known as new ones become available via initiator level increase, but there may be some xp investment and you need to check with your dm.

You have greater arcane fusion on there as both an 8th and 7th level spell. So you have another 7th level spell available.

Consider getting some of the maneuver granting items since while you have the item you count as "knowing" the maneuver for purposes of other maneuvers.

If there is any way you can get your claws on a runestaff for more spellcasting options (Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic) or pocket blasting (Wings of Flurry), do it. Especially if you can get a greatsword/longsword or similar-shaped runestaff.

Crusaders get a lot of standard-action strikes, while Warblade has a few options for full attacking/multiple attacks that synergize better with arcane strike (Adamantine Hurricane, Raging Mongoose, Time Stands Still, there's a Diamond Mind 7th level one that lets you keep on attacking as long as you don't miss, which can be a while with wraithstrike and Arcane Strike going). Arcane strike is much more worth the loss of a high level spell slot if you can get a full attack off with it.
I'll check these things out. I'm not sure how GAF got left on at 7, it must have been crossed up in a file save at some point.

two additional levels of JPM would give you an additional maneuver, one additional maneuver readied, and empowering strike. I'm not too familiar with swiftblades, so don't know what you'd be giving up, so I can't give advice, but I'm not 100% sure that it would be worthwhile.

if you could take 3 more levels of JPM somewhere late in the build, you could get Aura of Perfect Order, as JPM grants a stance (as well as a maneuver) at level 5. By my count, you'd need to take the 5th level after level 16 to get the Aura of Perfect Order.
10th level Swiftblade bags me Time Stop through Haste, so I'd like to keep full Swiftblade levels.

Icewraith
2010-10-03, 07:47 PM
Are you the only arcane caster in your party?

EDIT: It's an npc, so party utility isn't as big a worry. Nvm.

Godskook
2010-10-03, 07:53 PM
First of all, this is "a little cheesy", this is gouda.

Your progression isn't legal, unless you're getting BAB from something other than classes(I pretty sure you're getting sorcerer levels from a racial trait in there somewhere, but that wouldn't grant BAB). You'll need to sink 1 more level into a non-prestige class, or find a different one to start with.

Also, changing to swordsage over crusader only makes the progression *worse*, since he'll need to spend another level twiddling his thumbs before he can qualify for the gish prestige classes.

I'd drop the initiator stuff altogether, personally, since you can't gain enough of it with you're primary focus being swiftblade. Instead, I'd grab 2 levels of paladin(instead of crusader) for a better divine grace, and sacred exorcist 1(or more, to taste) for turning attempts.

If you really want the stance badly enough to stay with crusader, you're better off getting the stance via feat, item or spell than through class levels. Easiest is spell, since Heroics is standard fare for the Gish, and I don't think Mirror Move should be allowed to mimic that feat.

Finally, JPM is *REALLY* not a good 2-level dip for a build that doesn't have many useful strikes, since you'll want to be full-attacking, and the arcane strike feat does spell-dumping better than the class feature you get from JPM when you full attack(compare: swift action for 1d10 on 1 attack to free action for 1d4 on all attacks). And arcane strike stacks with itself, allowing for better bonuses from cheaper slots(3 level 1 spells = 3d4 damage)

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 07:58 PM
First of all, this is "a little cheesy", this is gouda.

Your progression isn't legal, unless you're getting BAB from something other than classes(I pretty sure you're getting sorcerer levels from a racial trait in there somewhere, but that wouldn't grant BAB). You'll need to sink 1 more level into a non-prestige class, or find a different one to start with.

Also, changing to swordsage over crusader only makes the progression *worse*, since he'll need to spend another level twiddling his thumbs before he can qualify for the gish prestige classes.

I'd drop the initiator stuff altogether, personally, since you can't gain enough of it with you're primary focus being swiftblade. Instead, I'd grab 2 levels of paladin(instead of crusader) for a better divine grace, and sacred exorcist 1(or more, to taste) for turning attempts.

If you really want the stance badly enough to stay with crusader, you're better off getting the stance via feat, item or spell than through class levels. Easiest is spell, since Heroics is standard fare for the Gish, and I don't think Mirror Move should be allowed to mimic that feat.

Finally, JPM is *REALLY* not a good 2-level dip for a build that doesn't have many useful strikes, since you'll want to be full-attacking, and the arcane strike feat does spell-dumping better than the class feature you get from JPM when you full attack(compare: swift action for 1d10 on 1 attack to free action for 1d4 on all attacks). And arcane strike stacks with itself, allowing for better bonuses from cheaper slots(3 level 1 spells = 3d4 damage)

Thanks for checking the legality, for some reason I forgot the BAB req for SB. I'll pore over it for a bit and see what I come up with. I would kinda like to stay with initiator classes, though (though I know well the synergy with paladin).

I'm not exactly married to the initiator levels though.

Icewraith
2010-10-03, 08:11 PM
Just double checked, there isn't a single multiple-attack maneuver that Crusader has access to-just standard action strikes and charges. So no synergy with wraithstrike/arcane strike there. I don't think you're getting enough out of the initiator classes to justify them, although this sort of thing would be great in gestalt.

Arcane Strike stacks with itself? Generally, bonuses from feats like that don't stack since they're from the same source. However if you've got wraithstrike and arcane strike and do have access to something like Avalance of Blades, where you can keep making attacks as long as you can hit with an increasing -4 penalty every attack, burning a high level slot for 6-9d4 of damage per swing and +6-9 hit is very favorable.

Douglas
2010-10-03, 09:31 PM
White Dragonspawn and Loredrake only give you +3 levels of Sorcerer casting, not enough to get Haste at the level you have Swiftblade starting. You need 6th level Sorc casting before you can start Swiftblade, and that means at least 3 levels of Sorcerer (or other full-casting PrC), or 2 if you delay Swiftblade to level 7 or later so Greater Draconic Rite of Passage can kick in.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 09:46 PM
All good points. I will fix the errors tomorrow. Probably will lose the initiator levels, but if I can somehow squeeze them in I'll stick with it (pretty sure that won't happen).

This is what I get for trying to do error-checks while my girlfriend tries to talk to me about groceries....

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-03, 10:30 PM
post updated with some quick changes. if i can figure out how to get back to the concept i was going for, i'll post it when i can.

Godskook
2010-10-04, 11:26 AM
Why are you switching to Kobold Paragon? Its almost strictly inferior to plain sorcerer levels for your purposes(compare sorcerer's 3 caster levels and 2 BAB* to paragon's 2 caster levels and 2 BAB). Is there some other benefit that's worth giving up that caster level?

*(You already burned a level in sorcerer, so you're next level in it would give a BAB, and two more would give another BAB.

Also, you're not clear to enter Abjurant Champion as your 7th level either. The BAB pre-req means you need to start elsewhere. Oddly enough, you can start with Swiftblade if you're gaining at least +2 lvls of sorc* from your racials by going:

Sorc 4/Pal 2/Swiftblade 10/Whatever

*I'm semi-aware of loredrake/dragonspawn shenanigans, but not enough to know the exact bonuses involved.


Arcane Strike stacks with itself? Generally, bonuses from feats like that don't stack since they're from the same source. However if you've got wraithstrike and arcane strike and do have access to something like Avalance of Blades, where you can keep making attacks as long as you can hit with an increasing -4 penalty every attack, burning a high level slot for 6-9d4 of damage per swing and +6-9 hit is very favorable.

Oh...............sorry.

Damage dice from arcane strike stack. The attack bonus, does not. However, if he's persisting Wraithstrike, like, he should be, mild differences in AB aren't an issue. I forgot to explicitly mention this, but didn't compare the AB differences in the two skills either(which JPM's gives a flat bonus, while arcane strike's scales to the highest level spell burned off).

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 12:15 PM
With some considerations I've made, I'm going to overhaul this a little entirely. Probably ditch paladin and kobold paragon, work in Incantrix and go for persistent wraithstrike and possibly Ruin Delver's Fortune. Ditch strength for more DEX and INT.

edited OP to reflect above ideas

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 02:10 PM
I'm considering dropping Iron Will, obtaining it through Otyugh Hole, and picking up Arcane Preparation to snag Greater Luminous Armor. Thoughts?

Keld Denar
2010-10-04, 02:22 PM
Are you using a weapon? Or your Kobold Claws? If you are using claws, its probably worth noting that as a [Dragon] type creature, DW Kobolds qualify for Rapid Strike (Draconomnomnomnomnomicon). Of cource, they need to get the +10 BAB, which generally comes late for a gish for Rapid Strike, and +15 for Greater Rapid Strike (which probably won't come until level 18 or later). Still, extra attacks per round synergizes well with Arcane Strike.

Wings of Peace
2010-10-04, 02:29 PM
Why so much Swiftblade and Incantatrix? You could get equally good results with a dip of Spelldancer for infinite persisting and Arcane Disciple (War) for Divine Power which would open up the build more to things like Dweomerkeeper for the buffs you want be ensure don't get taken down.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 02:50 PM
Are you using a weapon? Or your Kobold Claws? If you are using claws, its probably worth noting that as a [Dragon] type creature, DW Kobolds qualify for Rapid Strike (Draconomnomnomnomnomicon). Of cource, they need to get the +10 BAB, which generally comes late for a gish for Rapid Strike, and +15 for Greater Rapid Strike (which probably won't come until level 18 or later). Still, extra attacks per round synergizes well with Arcane Strike.

I'm going to use a weapon. Rapid strike is cool and all, but I'm already really tight on feats.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 02:53 PM
Why so much Swiftblade and Incantatrix? You could get equally good results with a dip of Spelldancer for infinite persisting and Arcane Disciple (War) for Divine Power which would open up the build more to things like Dweomerkeeper for the buffs you want be ensure don't get taken down.

Where can I get some source material for spelldancer? I've heard of it, but haven't seen it before. Thanks in advance.
Edit: found it, thanks for the solid suggestion. I was going to need Perform: Dance anyway for using the Slippers.

I want to have Swiftblade 10 mostly for flavor and Time Stop-y fun.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 04:15 PM
Took that advice, picked up Spelldancer 1. Should be able to nail the lower DC's for the perform checks to persist pretty easily with a custom perform item and my charisma bonus by taking 10, and the fortitude saves will be easy to pass with my saves. That let me pick back up the 2 levels of Abjurant Champion.

Wings of Peace
2010-10-04, 04:17 PM
Took that advice, picked up Spelldancer 1. Should be able to nail the lower DC's for the perform checks to persist pretty easily with a custom perform item and my charisma bonus by taking 10, and the fortitude saves will be easy to pass with my saves. That let me pick back up the 2 levels of Abjurant Champion.

Just remember to invest in a way of getting rid of the Con damage the Spelldancing inflicts. Not hard to do but important to keep in mind.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 04:50 PM
Just remember to invest in a way of getting rid of the Con damage the Spelldancing inflicts. Not hard to do but important to keep in mind.

True, with some loose calculations based on guesses my fort save at 20 will be:
5 Base + 6 Resistance + 8 bonus = 17 against the first fort save, which will be for Ruin Delver's Fortune: fort
After that, save goes to
5 base + 6 Resistance + 8 con Bonus + 12 Luck = 31
So that'll keep me safe from the con damage for 2 more persisted spells. The last 3 will get difficult, since they will be 34, 40, and 46. It'd be safe to gamble on the first one since I only have to roll a 3 or higher.

If anybody can find something that grants bonuses to saves that isn't Resistance or Luck I might be able to pull off all my persists without ever taking con damage.

Hmmmm...it might be a good idea to grab a level of Marshal for this. Charisma to fortitude saves while dancing in the morning, and charisma to either initiative the rest of the time....

Wings of Peace
2010-10-04, 05:00 PM
True, with some loose calculations based on guesses my fort save at 20 will be:
5 Base + 6 Resistance + 8 bonus = 17 against the first fort save, which will be for Ruin Delver's Fortune: fort
After that, save goes to
5 base + 6 Resistance + 8 con Bonus + 12 Luck = 31
So that'll keep me safe from the con damage for 2 more persisted spells. The last 3 will get difficult, since they will be 34, 40, and 46. It'd be safe to gamble on the first one since I only have to roll a 3 or higher.

If anybody can find something that grants bonuses to saves that isn't Resistance or Luck I might be able to pull off all my persists without ever taking con damage.

Hmmmm...it might be a good idea to grab a level of Marshal for this. Charisma to fortitude saves while dancing in the morning, and charisma to either initiative the rest of the time....

The Strongheart Vest Soulmeld or really any spell that grants immunity to con damage are also good solutions.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-04, 05:19 PM
The Strongheart Vest Soulmeld or really any spell that grants immunity to con damage are also good solutions.

True, but I'm liking the Marshal's options...now I'm just at a loss as to what 8th level spell I'd have to drop if I took the Marshal level, and when I would take it. Gaining charisma to fort in the mornings, then changing it to either charisma/dex checks or AC vs. AoO's would be great. I'd have the AC to pretty much run around ignoring things while charging for a full attack.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-05, 04:31 PM
Edited OP with most recent updates. Anybody got some more good ways to get charisma to fort? I'm using marshal aura and Ruin Delver's Fortune, right now. Paladin is out.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-07, 11:48 AM
Edited OP with gear, saves, AC, and spelldance procedure. Will add skills and to-hit/damage when I get the chance.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-08, 03:33 PM
All done I think. Yay!

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-15, 10:06 PM
All done I think. Yay!

Wasn't all done, at all. Made some changes, and possibly might make a few more but won't post them (like picking up Heroics for some maneuvers/stances, or raunchy cheese Psy-ref for crafting my gear and basically doubling wealth).

Enjoy.