Roy vs Belkar vs Elan vs Durkon vs Haley vs V

[Sin-Ran]

Who would win?

[Bliu Skye]

O-chul, of course.

[The Blackbird]

O-chul, of course.

That was perfect when paired with your signature.

Seriously though, I would think Durkon.

[Eldrys]

Durkon or V. But if I had to pick one, Durkon

[Kish]

If they were fighting each other, the only one who hadn't lost already would be Belkar, and he'd lose by dying first.

[DragonOfUndeath]

unoptimized caster (V), mildly optimized Cleric (Durkon), an unoptimized Ranger (Belkar) who is too good for his character sheet, optimized Fighter (Roy) and Rogue (Haley) and an idiotic Dashing Swordman/Bard (Elan)? tough call id have too say Belkar cause Mr Scruffy would own everyone on his own leaving Belkar the only one still standing

[Crisis21]

Seriously, the only ones who would win that fight would be Team Evil.

[rewinn]

So much depends on the setting AND group dynamics.

If they start out within Roy's striking range AND everyone is fully equipped, he can pretty much take out any one he wants except possibly Durkon, so it would be natural for everyone to pile on him (rather than on Durkon since the latter's offensive capability has never been his strong suit).

If they start out a mile apart on an infinite, featureless plain, it's V all the way (fly, pick them off one at a time)

Other settings, other outcomes.

[Strife Warzeal]

Other settings, other outcomes.

Taking this into account how about a destroyed city (azure city like?) have things like wide courtyards, tight alleyways, broken homes, and lets say about a total battlefield size of 1 square mile. Who would win in this varied battlefield, my money would be on Haley.

[Lord Thurlvin]

Taking this into account how about a destroyed city (azure city like?) have things like wide courtyards, tight alleyways, broken homes, and lets say about a total battlefield size of 1 square mile. Who would win in this varied battlefield, my money would be on Haley.

We haven't seen any divorced goblins or hobgoblins, actually. :smalltongue:

[the humanity]

I think everybody would view somebody besides Elan as the biggest threat. Elan would just bounce around and hit people for a little while, everyone else will take heavy damage. Elan will be hit but not as often as V or Roy, and as he uses illusion effectively, he will be a massive threat once everyone has taken a few hits.

so, Elan.

[ThirdEmperor]

I would say Haley. She would hide somewhere until everyone was weakened then she would snipe whoever was still standing.

Also, someone should run this.

[DragonOfUndeath]

he uses illusion effectively, he will be a massive threat once everyone has taken a few hits.

the only time he uses it effectively is when the others remind him

[zimmerwald1915]

Also, someone should run this.
This. An Order of the Scribble Redux.

[Sin-Ran]

i say Xykon wins

[Haruki-kun]

V wins. Unless we start metagaming. Then V loses first because everyone would go kill him first, as he's the most dangerous one.

[derfenrirwolv]

Haley. She's too sneaky to loose to those schlebs.

[Lord Bingo]

V wins. Unless we start metagaming. Then V loses first because everyone would go kill him first, as he's the most dangerous one.

Are you thereby saying that the choosing who to attack first based on a rational assessing of threat level is metagaming? :smallconfused: Remember that this gang knows each other pretty well.

I'd guess that Haley or V would win as they can both hide out until the worst is over. In a straight up fight between Haley and V my money would be on V if he does not start ranting.

The losers would be Belkar and Elan as everyone will want to put in their proverbial two cents.

I am not sure about Durkon and Roy but as they both lack effective ranged combat options I do not think they could win.

Remember that all this time Belkar will be out for V's blood and vice versa which might put the latter at a slight disadvantage. My mony remains on V as the winner, though.

[Morquard]

V wins. Unless we start metagaming. Then V loses first because everyone would go kill him first, as he's the most dangerous one.
People in the OOtS world are aware of concepts like HP, Feats, Levels, Damage, Classes and all that metagaming gaming stuff.
So even without us metagaming, the characters already would, so metagaming wouldn't be metagaming, and would actually be required in a OOtS game.

If the fights are one on one fights (random pairings) my guess is on Durkon, since he has the best chances against everyone. The only problem might arise if he runs out of spells and isn't allowed to renew them.
If its a last man standing battle, then I'd agree with what others have said and vote for Haley and Elan. Elan because noone sees him as a threat while the others are still around, and so Durkon and V get ganged up on first and taken out fast. Haley will wait till there's only one beside Elan left and sneak attack that one. Then the two of them will make out and say "What? There's just one man left standing" :)

[Morquard]

I am not sure about Durkon and Roy but as they both lack effective ranged combat options I do not think they could win.

Durkon has been seen to use Hold Person more than once, that has around 250 ft range for him and lasts around 15 rounds, I'd call that ranged and allows him to get into range.

Of course if V uses Greater Invisibility and Fly he can nuke everyone from above without much fear of getting hit in return.

[Haruki-kun]

Are you thereby saying that the choosing who to attack first based on a rational assessing of threat level is metagaming? :smallconfused:

That is, in fact, what I'm saying. :smalltongue:

Not really the point, though, that's just my personal definition of it. My point is still that V is probably the most powerful in the party. Assuming they know this, they'd probably gang up on him. Assuming we're going by raw power, then V wins.

Oh, and if they go one on one, I think V wins all.

[Maxios]

I think Belkar aka the Sexy Shoeless God of War, or Vaarsuvius would win.

[Thajocoth]

Elan is prophesized to have a happy ending. And I don't think they were talking about massages...

[Kish]

That is, in fact, what I'm saying. :smalltongue:
I've never gotten why some people consider basic in-character reasoning abilities to require "metagaming."

[NineThePuma]

As stated previously. From a philosophical standpoint, if this scenario comes up, they've ALL lost. Except Belkar. Cause he's evil.

But more seriously, I'd say that Belkar wins.

[Maryring]

People forget though, that while V might be a wizard, she is very much so a blaster wizard. She mainly prepares spells with a reflex save, and Haley has huge reflex save and evasion. She'd be able to dodge a lot while peppering V with arrows. Remember her fights with Tsukiko?

[mootoall]

Protection against arrows. V still wins.

[Stmr5000]

Except Haley uses the dagger thing now. Protection from arrows doesn't mean as much.

[mootoall]

Flight. V is out of range of pretty much all of the party.

[Maryring]

Protection from arrows doesn't protect against magical arrows. Haley's old +3 bow would pierce it.

[mootoall]

Then Wind Wall? Don't remember her barred schools, but it seems as if she'd have that.

[Sin-Ran]

This is what happens part 1

Belkar: I will kill you all

Xykon: That is my job

Belkar and Xykon fight

Roy: NO STEALING MY KILL

Roy joins the fight

Haley: How is it your kill?

Haley joins the fight

[Ryuk01]

Two Words:

THOR'S MIGHT!!!:durkon:

[Acero]

Two Words:

THOR'S MIGHT!!!:durkon:

ok. now he's a bigger target for Haley's arrows

[mootoall]

Oh, also, dwarf wearing heavy metal armor? Primo target for a chained lightning.

[Maryring]

We've not seen V prepare Wind Wall. She may not have it. And she's got terrible spot checks (like the rest of the order), so Haley could hide out her defensive spells.

[Sin-Ran]

We've not seen V prepare Wind Wall. She may not have it. And she's got terrible spot checks (like the rest of the order), so Haley could hide out her defensive spells.

V is a GUY!!!!!

You can tell by what his mate looks like

[Sin-Ran]

Here is what happens part 2

Elan: This looks fun!

Elan joins the fight

He gets defeated by Xykon who gets killed by Roy who also gets beaten by Belkar

The rest of the order join in

[rewinn]

V is a GUY!!!!!

You can tell by what his mate looks like
:vaarsuvius: "I fail to perceive the relevance of your assertion, but for the sake of fidelity to the evidence, it is incumbent upon me to point out that my beloved but most regrettably lost mate possess a delightfully androgynous appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)".

[orrion]

Protection from arrows doesn't protect against magical arrows. Haley's old +3 bow would pierce it.

So then what spell did Samantha use when she was fighting the Order in Wooden Forest?

Until Vaarsuvius dispelled her, Haley's arrows were bouncing off.. and she was using her +3 bow.

Edit: I just checked, and, matter of fact, in comic 168 V specifically says that Samantha's Protection from Arrows spell is gone.

[zimmerwald1915]

So then what spell did Samantha use when she was fighting the Order in Wooden Forest?

Until Vaarsuvius dispelled her, Haley's arrows were bouncing off.. and she was using her +3 bow.

Edit: I just checked, and, matter of fact, in comic 168 V specifically says that Samantha's Protection from Arrows spell is gone.
In order to have a chance at bypassing Protection from Arrows, doesn't the ammunition have to be magical? Not [just] the bow?

[mootoall]

Well if this is the case, then it's even more of an indication V wins!

[Nimrod's Son]

V is a GUY!!!!!

You can tell by what his mate looks like
:smallsigh: ...I don't even know where to start with this.

[Maryring]

V is a GUY!!!!!

You can tell by what his mate looks like
Hang on... V is gay? :smallbiggrin:

So then what spell did Samantha use when she was fighting the Order in Wooden Forest?

Until Vaarsuvius dispelled her, Haley's arrows were bouncing off.. and she was using her +3 bow.

Edit: I just checked, and, matter of fact, in comic 168 V specifically says that Samantha's Protection from Arrows spell is gone.
That is most likely a mistake though. A common one as well. Almost everyone seems to initially think that it protects against all arrows, failing the detailed details that mention "the subject gains damage reduction 10/magic against ranged weapons." So all magical arrows will bypass protection from arrows.

In order to have a chance at bypassing Protection from Arrows, doesn't the ammunition have to be magical? Not [just] the bow?


Ranged Weapons and Ammunition
The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
So it is enough to have a magical weapon. In addition, the damage bonus (that isn't of the flat +x variant) on magical arrows stack with that of the weapon. So if Haley fired fire arrows from her icy burst bow, it'd deal both an additional 1d6 fire damage, AND 1d6 ice damage.

[derfenrirwolv]

V is a GUY!!!!!

You can tell by what his mate looks like

Except that V's children are adopted.

[AxeD]

I don't know who wins, but Belkar is the first to die.

The Order of the Stick look warily at each-other, some in silent contemplation over who to attack in order to maximise their strategic advantage, others lamenting that cruel fate has pitted them against their once beloved comrades

:belkar:"BWAHAHAHA!! This is the best day of my life!!"

:durkon::vaarsuvius::elan::haley::roy:"...."

The rest of the Order surround and destroy Belkar in a violent explosion of arrows, magic and steel. Then after realising that Belkar was the cause of most of their problems, they celebrate with a massive party at the local inn.

[ericgrau]

Based on comic events: (V), Roy, Belkar, Haley, Durkon, (V) then Elan. Might flip Haley and Durkon. Depending on circumstances V could be in either spot, but seems like he/she's taken out of every major battle first chance anyone gets.

If it were a free for all I'd put Roy or Durkon on top purely out of ability to turtle. And b/c the more offensive yet poorly defended ones - V and Belkar - would become the prime targets out of fear and hate.

[Sin-Ran]

i re read the comic and now say this

V has no Gender at all

[mootoall]

Honestly I'm under the impression that V was meant to be an incomplete character sheet, and her gender ambiguity stems from that. But let's not derail this thread, shall we? There is, after all, an official one discussing this topic.

[Doomboy911]

I have to believe Roy or Elan. Roy has the brilliance to plan this out ahead of time in case they all turn on him. He'd look around for Haley smash her bow than kill her, avoid V and Belkar because of the power and stealth quickly kill Elan. With Durkon he'd trick him so he could get a cheap heal from him. Likely draw Belkar out into the opening so his hiding is out and make sure to make enough commotion for V to come in and waste his spells dealing with Belkar than kill V while he's catching his breath. Than it's a matter of running from Durkon as he spends his spells fight and than just destroy him.

For Elan I think he has genre brilliance to just get them all together in one massive fight. He'd lead V with his illusions so V would think he has an easy kill, taunt Durkon into chasing after him, give his position away to Roy and Belkar than draw Haley out with hit and run tactics. Come charging in hit her a few times than flee, come back hit and run until she's wasted her potions and just goes after him.

This is all running with the destroyed Azure city and saying that you're using it all.

[Da'Shain]

Really depends on the environment. If it's in, say, the smoldering ruins of Azure City, Haley wins, after a long, hard battle. Simply through virtue of having innumerable places to hide and enough Sneak Attack damage to take out several of the members in just a couple hits. She would skulk around the edges of the combat, waiting for the perfect opportunity, unless all of them decided to gang up on her (unlikely). Then it's just a matter of wearing down the tanks.

In the desert at close range, on the other hand, I'd be more prepared to give it to Roy or V, which depends on who goes first. If Roy goes first (as is more likely, since the evidence suggests a higher DEX and he's more likely to have Improved Init), he'll almost certainly take V out in the first round with a full-Power-attack, or possibly a charge/grapple attempt (and this is assuming, since Haley is more likely to go first, that she doesn't do his job for him with a first-round Sneak Attack). Once V is taken care of, it's really a toss-up who to go after next, but my money is on Durkon, since Haley will have a hard time getting anymore Sneak Attacks with nowhere to hide. If V goes first, he'll take to the sky and proceed to rain death down on the OotS, likely spending his Forcecage on the only one of them with any ranged ability, Haley.

[Squeejee]

Surprise Round: Haley Sneak Attacks V. Depending on how she rolls, V could be killed outright.

Round 1: Haley wins initiative (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html). She then faces a difficult choice, but would probably hit Belkar with everything she has - a full attack rapid shot sneak attack against a flat footed opponent at point blank range, yeah, the Belkster doesn't stand a chance. If she rolls average, V and B will be dead or unconscious - if she rolls poorly, B might still be awake, but she would undoubtedly focus on V until s/he is down. If she rolls well, there would be a few arrows in Roy or Durkon as well.

If he's alive, Belkar goes for an immediate revenge pouncing charge against Haley, but has just as much chance of missing the high AC rogue as anything.

Roy would re-evaluate his plan at this point and focus his effort on the party member he severely underestimated. His attack is more likely to be effective - assuming he can't get a full attack in, Haley may-or-may-not be wounded, but is still standing. If Belkar is severely wounded, Roy might have the presence of mind to finish him off and hit Haley with a cleave.

Durkon fires Thor's Lightning into the crowd for maximum damage. Only Roy is effected.

Elan acts to defend Haley, setting her up to flank Roy with her shiny new dagger next round. Ouch.

From there, it's difficult to tell. I assume that one of the remaining members would come up with a brilliant gambit to cripple the others at the end of the fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0470.html). My bet is that, assuming everyone's memory hasn't been wiped, Elan will keep setting up a flank for Haley, then she'll backstab him to win the fight.

Then she'll get all emo about it for 100 or so comics, and Evil will win.

[theinsulabot]

V>roy≥Belkar>durkon≥haley>elan

was the snap judgment, a few notes is that belkar will definitely attack V, who may or may not immediately attack belkar, elan would theoretically stand with haley except roy will very likely take the opportunity to beat him down like he has always wanted in the first turn, and durkon has a real shot at being the winner if he doesn't draw attention to himself at first and lets inner rivalries wear everyone out and finishes the last man standing, probably roy or haley with thor's might

[Maxios]

It's as simple as this: Vaarsuvius casts protection from arrows, flight, and prepares Evan's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion :smalleek:

[Maryring]

Protection from arrows has already been, pardon the pun, shot to death.

[mootoall]

Badum-Ching!

But in all seriousness, all V has to do is climb out of range of Haley's bow with Fly, and then level (as in burn) the playing field. Hell, she can even just use Bigsby's Crushing Hand on Haley, as we seem agreed that she's V's biggest threat, and carry Haley up with her.

Actually, as far as I can tell, V's biggest threat might be Durkon. After all, Thor's Lightning probably has a pretty huge range, not to mention that Control Weather could get V out of the sky. V's biggest advantage against him is, again, Chain Lightning, or some other lightning spell, because hey, dwarf in metal armor. So V's biggest problem is getting rid of the only two people who can get her at range (not including Belkar with his Ring of Jumping +20) and then fly and fry.

[wybrand]

Hmmm... I guess V with Belkar a close second. Or Elan because he'll have an happy ending. But then is killing his friends and lover no happy ending. So just V.

[Maryring]

There's also Initiative to consider though. Haley seems to always be the one winning initiative. If Haley wins initiative, then V should die. Even with mage armour on, Haley has a good shot at getting of several sneak attacks on V. And V doesn't have the HP to survive long. I just don't see V surviving long enough to fly out of range.

[mootoall]

Nerveskitter? Again, we don't know if V has it, but we also don't know that she has mage armor. Though, again, I don't think that, in character, Haley would go after V. They seem really close, after all. I think that Haley's first target will be Durkon. After all, he seems to be the one she clashes most with.

[Bad Situation]

Belkar has a poor will save and negative wisdom modifier. There are three casters on the team who could easily take advantage of this. (Durkon admittedly doesn't prepare these sorts of spells though) So Belkar would likely go down first. If V knew ahead of time that there would in be an inter-party fight, Flight and Windwall shut down both Roy and Haley. Of course, it could be argued that V already has these spells prepared on a daily basis. Elan is rendered ineffective against the remaining team as well.

I'd say it would come down as a fight between Vaarsuvius and Durkon. Durkon might be able to eak out a win if he has the right spells for dealing with other casters however. But for the most part I think V would be the last man woman elf standing.

EDIT: Oh, and Forcecage isn't a bad idea considering he's already specced toward Evocation.

[Gd8908]

Hmm... depending on the setting and whether or not they were all equipped:
1st to die: Elan. He's pretty low level on dashing swordsman, since he started it recently, and he probably wouldn't have the heart to actually kill someone when given the chance.
2nd: Roy. He's actually a pretty good fighter, but after Elan died, he'd probably be the second easiest target (Haley's sniping, Belkar's knives, V's magic, and Durkon's clerical abilities, notably "Thor's Might".). Attacking all at the same time, he wouldn't stand much of a chance.
3rd: Belkar. Face it. Everyone would be itching to kill him anyway. All at the same time.
4th: Durkon vs. V..... a little hard. Probably V when it came down to it.
Of course, this would depend on whether they would attack systematically. Belkar and Elan wouldn't, Roy, V, and Durkon probably would, and Haley is like a maybe.

[Gd8908]

:vaarsuvius: "I fail to perceive the relevance of your assertion, but for the sake of fidelity to the evidence, it is incumbent upon me to point out that my beloved but most regrettably lost mate possess a delightfully androgynous appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)".

It must have been hard checking over everything the two of them said, so it wouldn't reveal anything.

[Maryring]

Nerveskitter? Again, we don't know if V has it, but we also don't know that she has mage armor. Though, again, I don't think that, in character, Haley would go after V. They seem really close, after all. I think that Haley's first target will be Durkon. After all, he seems to be the one she clashes most with.

Nerveskitter is noncore. Going out of core seems a pretty big deal, as shown when Tsukiko used orb spells, so until it is shown that he uses the spell, one should assume that he doesn't. The Giant mentioned that V had mage armour after the railroad fiasco, so that seems clear.

And yeah, but if they would remember how close they were to one another, I don't see them fighting, except to destroy Belkar.

[ericgrau]

Mage armor is conjuration, so V doesn't have it. Maybe that was a change that was added later on.

[Maryring]

Ah yeah, that's right. That makes V much more vulnerable to thrown knives and arrows.

[Ender Wigin]

A resserected Miko would charge into the battle, slice Belkars head off, and then take his head and skip home while whistling "I'm walking on sunshine" leaving evreyone else to battle.

[Nimrod's Son]

A resserected Miko would charge into the battle, slice Belkars head off, and then take his head and skip home while whistling "I'm walking on sunshine" leaving evreyone else to battle.
I'm sure everyone would prefer it if you kept the Miko fan-worship to threads that are actually ABOUT Miko.

[Kish]

I'm sure everyone would prefer it if you kept the Miko fan-worship to threads that are actually ABOUT Miko.
Meh, this thread's premise isn't made significantly more goofy by the addition of resurrected Mikos.

[Nimrod's Son]

I posted in this thread, but I was talking generally. This is like the sixty-seventh time this week Ender Wigin has posted some irrelevancy about Miko coming back from the dead to kill Belkar. When Varstilis isn't doing it, that is. :smallwink:

[Ender Wigin]

I posted in this thread, but I was talking generally. This is like the sixty-seventh time this week Ender Wigin has posted some irrelevancy about Miko coming back from the dead to kill Belkar. When Varstilis isn't doing it, that is. :smallwink:

Sorry, Miko is juat such a good charactor...Why did she have to die...?

But we probibly should get back on track now. Now, lets start with Elan and Haley. Haley could probibly defeat Elan easily in combat, but of course the little lovebirds coulden't bear to hurt each other. They would just stand there, gazing at each other, wepons streatched out, then they would be hit by a giant fireball from Varstilis, or cleved by Roy, or stabbed by Belkar. (This is not including the profecy Elan got from the oricle.)

And then Miko would come in and gleefuly slice Belkars...Uhhhh...I mean, Belkar and Varstilis would want to end each other, so they would have a big climatic battle. But V would just fly higher than Belkar, so high that even his ring of jumping couldent defeat her. Then she would kill him with a giant lightning bolt along with Roy, then Dunkon would call upon the power of Thor and blast Varstilis right out of the sky, and he would be victorious, and have another round of beer.

Then Mikos would walk over to Belkar and spit at his feet...Uhh, nevermind. Dunkon wins. The end.

[Hawk7915]

I'd say that Roy would win, as he'd play smart and wise (best combined mental scores in the party) and let the others pick each other off. Each of the others has a sort of "Achilles heel" in the party except Roy and Elan; Roy's biggest weakness is his lack of options and inability to beat ALL of them before his HP is out (Elan is just worthless in a stand-up fight against most of the party 1-1, lord forbid 2-1 or 3-1).

V - Obviously flight + explosions kills Belkar, Roy, and Elan. 50/50 on Durkon; Durkon should win but he's pretty uncreative with his spells so he might lose. But Haley boasts range to keep hitting him, better initiative modifier, and sky-high Reflex and Touch AC which neutralizes a lot of V's offensive capabilities.

Belkar - Can easily ginsu Haley, V, or Elan if he can full attack, and has some ranged and pouncing options to make it so. Can also resist much of V's magic thanks to Rage + good, balanced-ish saves. But he's been shown to not have the firepower to go toe-to-toe with Roy, and Durkon would similarly be a problem.

Haley - As noted, she just annihilates V. She can mess up Elan too, and Roy to a certain extent. Durkon has better than fair Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive though, so she won't be able to hide from him forever, plus he has armor in "tha stratosphere" and can heal himself. Belkar can probably kill her in a single full-attack as well (and is fast enough to do it before she can hide, unlike Roy).

Durkon - Durkon should be able to take anyone in the order: spells for V and Haley, Thor's Might + Heals for Roy, Belkar, and Elan. The thing is, he's consistently shown holding back and playing badly so he might just not prepare himself to effectively handle them all. And he doesn't have the "staying power" that Roy and Belkar do. Probably the biggest wild card; we've mostly seen Durkon be utterly worthless...but we have the Leeky Windstaff fight as an example of Durkon basically soloing a CR-appropriate encounter for the party when he's in the mood to do so.

The hardest part is there's still a lot we just don't know about Roy and Belkar. Belkar has an undefined and absurdly high strength to do what he does. More than half of Roy's feats are unknown (he has Weapon Focus and Spec, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Endurance...but as a Human Fighter 12 he's entitled to a whopping 14 feats). But yeah, I vote for Roy's "big pile of 44 point-buy versus an unoptimized team" to carry the day.

[Knightofvictory]

Depends on how many of the order are not killed, petrified, driven insane, or sent to another plane of existence after V's first Color Spray. :D

Overall, Roy probably wins. He is the strongest and most resourceful member of the order, and he probably understands the capabilities and weaknesses of his team better than any other member. That's what leaders do, after all.

[Kurald Galain]

Just to complicate things, the entire order but especially Durkon and V may well have long-term buffs active all the time.

Also, a pretty common option for V would be to use Contingency plus some defensive buff, such as Invisibility.

[Deliverance]

I was about to say that Haley's reflex save was not all that relevant in a fight with V since V's preferred spell for dangerous single targets, disintegrate, targets constitution and disintegrate handily outranges Haley's shortbow's effective range... until I read d20 on ranged weapon ranges (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm) and have to admit that, insane as it may seem, a good enough archer wielding a shortbow would be able to aim at and hit targets at 600 feet distance, more than twice the range of V's disintegrate, and that at V's disintegrate's maximum range (100 feet +10/level) Haley would only get -8 to hit.

D20 archery - where physics take second place to range increments: It really is a magic world. :smallbiggrin:

[Gandariel]

i think V could easily become invisible, fly away and wait until there's only 1 member left.

then. fly behind him(or her) and Disintegrate.
win

(unless Durkon tries to Dispel or Wind Walk, but i think he would be otherwise busy fighting the others..)

[cheese monster]

ELAN!:smalltongue:

[Drakonzeta]

I fail to see any particular circumstances in which the order would be fighting eachother. However, if this would happen, I personally would think that V would win. Projected initiatives based on the first battle with Miko:
1. V
2. Elan
3. Haley
4. Roy
5. Belkar
6. Durkon.
V becomes invisible.
Probably the majority of characters beside Belkar would attack Belkar, he's swarmed. Belkar would attack Roy, because his hate list for the rest of the party has V at the top and Roy second. Because V is invisible, it's Roy he attacks. If he survives 'till then, though. After Belkar is eliminated, Elan doesn't know what to do, and tries an illusion. Haley would attack Durkon, due to the clashes between them. Roy would probably be angry at Haley for this, and attack her. Without preknowledge of the fight, Durkon is dead pretty fast: no combat spells. however, If he knew this was coming, he'd Thor's lightning Haley and Elan. But let's assume he goes down. Then it becomes Elan and Haley vs. Roy. Probably both Haley and Roy will go down in this,(Roy will focus on Haley, d6 HD will make her dead quickly, Elan becomes steamed and whacks at Roy until he's dead.) and V will simply finish off Elan from the air with disintegrates and fireballs.
So V wins.

[Needle]

Can't believe no one said this till now, but V has Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html), that's enough against the order :smallbiggrin:

Now talking seriously... I see Durkon as my sure candidate, with Roy/V as candidates if they survive the nasty gangs up, specially V.

[Dralnu]

Haley or V. Both are smart enough to hide and wait until everyone else kills each other. V has a slight advantage here depending on the battleground due to invisibility.

It'd be a pretty even fight between V and Haley. V uses mostly blast spells with Reflex saves and Haley's sneak attack has only a 30yrd range. Whoever has more plot-fu will metagame a solution and win.

[Rob Roy]

Durkon or V, though the whole thing really depends on where the fight takes place and on who gets the first hit. If V can get his fly spell going before everyone gangs up on her, then he just can sit back and watch, because with the exception of Haley, no one (to my knowledge) has ranged attacks. Durkon as a cleric, is good with melee combat and can cast spells. If he uses Thor's Might he could deal significant damage to most of the Order.

[megabyter5]

The following scenario assumes that no personal ties or moral convictions are preventing them from killing each other, but their knowledge of the others' battle strategies is still intact.

Haley distracts Vaarsuvius into wasting hir spells trying to blast her. Belkar, with the ring of jumping, takes advantage of the opening; V is the first one to go down. In the meantime, Durkon has cast Thor's Might and proceeds to kill Belkar, who is the only one stupid enough to attack him within the spell duration. Haley successfully hides from the remaining 3. Elan manages to deal a significant amount of damage to Roy before dying in a dramatically appropriate way. Haley finishes off Roy with a sneak attack, but is unable to overcome Durkon's lasting power, becoming the last to die. For those of us desiring a happy ending, he may opt to resurrect the others. Except Belkar.

[Drakonzeta]

We also have no idea who would win initiative, as all of these strategies involve one specific order of initiatives based off of previous battles. For all we know, Durkon could roll a 20 for initiative, and Haley could roll a 1. I still think V would win. For all those saying Haley would dodge V's spells, I have one word for you. Disintegrate. All Haley has now is 14 or 15 AC without her armor, and as V is above 10th level, and has the elf +2 dexterity, this will on average hit. Also, Haley is a rogue, so her fortitude save stinks, so this will likely take full effect, dealing 26-30d6 damage to Haley. The same goes for pretty much everyone else, as that much damage will kill all of them.

[Hironomus]

I feel Roy is being underestimated here.
He is a borderline tactical genius, and arguably has the best grasp of how the combat system works.
my money is on him or haley.

[Dalek-K]

My money is on the one who fudges the most rolls ... Belkar

For some reason I think his player is a lawyer who has been supressed by mommy and daddy his whole life

[Rob Roy]

For some reason I think his player is a lawyer who has been supressed by mommy and daddy his whole life

They don't have players, besides most of the party has shown the ability to be able to EX-TER-MI-NATE! Belkar at any time.:smalltongue:

[MReav]

V's probably the most dangerous just because with Suggestion and potentially Dominate Person, V can add meat shields to V's fight. And Power Word Blind can strip at least on person temporarily.

[Trazoi]

Hmmm, it's a question of brackets. I assume if a contest is A vs (B vs C) then A is trying to stop the B and C fight, and if it is A vs (B vs (C vs D)), then A is trying to stop B from stopping the C and D fight. Then it is a matter on whether "vs" is left or right associative.

If the contest is Roy vs (Belkar vs (Elan vs (Durkon vs (Haley vs V)))), Durkon should be able to pacify a Haley and V fight, and Elan won't be much good at stopping him. Thus Belkar would win by default. So for Roy to win, he needs to help Elan in thwarting Durkon stopping the Haley vs V fight. However Roy tends not to work well with Elan, so I predict distaster. Victory goes to (Belkar vs (Elan vs (Durkon vs (Haley vs V)))).

If the contest is ((((Roy vs Belkar) vs Elan) vs Durkon) vs Haley) vs V, then V can easily win by hitting the whole group with a disabling spell or even something simple like Grease (assuming V knows it). Fight over.

[Dalek-K]

But..

Durkon wouldn't kill (even belkar)
Roy wouldn't kill (except belkar)
Haley wouldn't kill (cept belkar)
Elan definitely wouldn't kill (even belkar)

V might kill

Belkar will kill


Winner in the end? Belkar

Now who would be the winner if the bouncy ball of insanity entered the picture? Not Belkar... Since yeah I'm sure you get why...

[Rob Roy]

But..

Durkon wouldn't kill (even belkar)
Roy wouldn't kill (except belkar)
Haley wouldn't kill (cept belkar)
Elan definitely wouldn't kill (even belkar)

V might kill

Belkar will kill


Winner in the end? Belkar

Now who would be the winner if the bouncy ball of insanity entered the picture? Not Belkar... Since yeah I'm sure you get why...
This is a thought experiment giving a situation where they are willing to kill each other, Why they are doesn't even figure into it. At all. We're basing all of our conclusion on who has the ability to do the most damage, how they can do this damage, and who gangs up on who, and the order in which they attack. Even if your evidence made sense in this discussion, it wouldn't work because you even said that Roy, Haley, and V would be willing to kill Belkar. Guess who they would gang up on if they only have one chose on who to gang up on. So Mr. Dalek (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Dalek) Who do you think would get EX-TER-MI-NAT-ED first?

[Dalek-K]

Well that's the thing they would be willing to kill Belkar normally but I'm sure everyone knows spells > melee as in the D&D world. If they all hated each other and was doing this under their own control then the melee types would team up automatically.

For their own good, Haley and Belkar would clobber V as fast as possible. They know they can work well together (hint the thieves guild) and could possibly take him out coming from both sides. IF V gets gets a spell off it will be shot toward Belkar since haley would be to hard to hit... Only now we know belkar also has evasion so it would have to be something like disintegrate (which belkar has to many hp to flat out kill him) or owls wisdom which would turn belkar into a pacifist for the rest of the fight. Either way first one down is V from the SSGoW and Sneak Attack.

Now assuming Elan wouldn't just walk away from the battle he would be smart enough to realize that V is the strongest. Elan gets along with belkar/haley so I think he would join their fight against V (remember how pissed he was about the kabuto death). Elan could potentially disrupt all V's magic with bardic abilities (bardic ability: annoy the crap out of people). Because of drama haley and elan will all mushy and Belkar will take them both out. Or take out haley and elan will be all "Wow thanks for escalating the drama!" which will confuse belkar. Belkar then will trick Elan into thinking he wants to destroy Roy for all the times he was mean to him and say something along the lines "he doesn't want to be your brother and he hates drama... see it says so on his online dating profile *shows okcupid account on an ipad*. Belkar and Elan will go after roy to find that he is defeated by Durkon (come on he is fighter/wizard that can heal himself!). Also remember how easily Belkar destroyed Celia when she had all her magic items and stuff on and ready for battle? Yeah just put haley in her place against belkar.

Now this will piss both Belkar and Elan off for different reasons...

Belkar wanted to kill roy due to making him have to do good things for 700+ strips

Elan will think its his dramatic duty to kill the one that stole his kill. He will then go on a speech on how durkon should heal them as to make it a fair fight you know for old times sake... He even goes as far as saying that he won't team up with belkar to fight him... However we see in another panel that banjo has his arms crossed behind elan's back. Of course once the healing spells are finished Belkar will back stab (not in a rogue way...) Durkon will go down from two daggers to the spine... I'm pretty sure by now Belkar will get some +5 daggers of X.

Elan vs Belkar? We know that...

>Poison won't work on either... Elan has magic and Belkar has badassery
>Melee goes to Belkar since Elan will just make puns about his height and then Belkar will use his class Rage instead of his halfling rage..
>Ranged? Well I don't think either uses it... Oopse no, Belkar will pick up a pebble....
>Magic... The only thing effective will be if Elan has Shout... Anything else (such as enhancements) he is liable to hit belkar with it on dramacident. Plus I'm not sure elan could cast with belkar attacking.
> Defense? I don't think either know what the word means...

So the winner?

Elan would come out strong making puns over belkar's height, belkar naturally will get mad and as they fight they will pass roy's body... Both will stop and snicker saying "roy has boobies" then continue with the fight... Belkar getting pissed and pissed will eventually will get passed all of Elans abilities and start doing major damage. Elan will be able to heal himself IF belkar gives him the chance... It will be hard to not break concentration... Belkar will use rage and in one final samurai type attack the elan and belkar fight will come to a closing ... with belkar's cat (mr scruffy?) jumping on elans face so belkar can deliver the final blow. Belkar screams that he is a sexy shoeless god of war when team evil arrives...

Belkar says "There is my resume.."


I want to make a few strips of comic based on this haha

[smasher0404]

Xylon, no opposition
in the battle; Roy, the main protagonist never dies

[Dalek-K]

He already has though... So dying again wouldn't be much different.... And I kinda see Elan as the main protagonist for some reason

[smasher0404]

Yes but this time he probably would end up stuck, and second the main quest is to kill Xylon and Roy has a blood oath to fulfill and third how many comics have the bard as a main character

[Forum Explorer]

I think Roy because he picked up that fancy mage disrupting feat which would work on both V and Durkon, which they don't know about! Also no one really has a bone to pick with Roy and they all respect him (Roy is the only one who can keep Belkar under control afterall) Elan stands no chance agianst anyone. Belker we already know can't beat Roy so that just leaves Haley. Unless everyone gangs up on Roy from the start he will have more then enough hp to smack her down in one or two turns.


:vaarsuvius: Disintigr- AARRGH
:roy: Disrupt! :smalltongue:


Possible breakdown of the fight:
They each pair off agianst who they think is the most dangerous/annoying
Roy vs Belkar
Durkon vs Elan (revenge agianst Banjo and his brother)
Haley vs V

Roy beats Belkar with relative ease, Roy teams up with either Durkon or Haley to finish them off then cleans up the remnats.
Teams up with O-chul, Tarquin, and Redcloak to take down Xykon. :smallcool:

[Dalek-K]

When Roy beat Belkar recently that was Belkar fooling around trying to get noticed and Roy took a cheap shot to knock the crap out of Belkar...

Any martial artist that is poking someone and fooling around can be hit by just about anyone if they don't think the person will respond in full force...

Belkar > Roy

Roy is actually 1 level lower than Belkar too.

Resurection = -1 level
Belkar gained a level then lost it setting him with a net total of +0 levels

This of course is only from what we saw in the comic... Plus if Belkar was serious he wouldn't fight straight up and let roy have any type of advantage. Heck I could see him running and throwing pebbles the whole time while taunting roy. there is only so far brains will get you in a battle sometimes he just comes down to who has the bigger guns

[Gandariel]

if they actually fought, then we should definitely NOT consider any one's relation with the others (Haley's love for Elan, everybody's hate for Belkar, etc)

So.
1st thing, V flies as high as possible.
about the others, haley will surely hide: she knows she can't fight in melee with the others.
Roy, Elan, Durkon and Belkar will fight melee, with Haley shooting arrows at the less hurt one and V blasting from above.
in the end, only one will remain (probably Durkon), he will go for haley and maybe kill her, just before being Disintegrated by V.
end of the story

[The_Jackal]

Vaarsuvius, no contest. First of all, remember that this is written for D20 3.5, and all the rules that go with it. One quickened fog cloud on top of black tentacles will trivially neutralize the entire party. Next round, acid fog starts melting everyone inside. Anyone who gets out gets to enjoy the full force of V's spellbashing, with the bevvy of save or be screwed effects they enjoy. If anyone manages to do enough damage to threaten V through her defenses, one invisibility lets her reset the fight.

The only real threat to V is being silenced, but nothing the comic has shown indicates that Durkon has the 'still spell' feat, so he can't silence her while grappled by Black Tentacles. His self-buffs to size and strength might bust him out of a grapple, but he needs to not be grappled to cast them.

Bottom line, V's battlefield control and disengage at will makes her a shoo-in winner in a free-for-all melee between the party.

[Cizak]

I think Roy because he picked up that fancy mage disrupting feat which would work on both V and Durkon, which they don't know about!...

When they left for the desert they expected to be setting up an ambush for an epic level lich sorcerer. I'm pretty sure Roy would've told everyone he learned a spell-disrupting move.

[Da'Shain]

Vaarsuvius, no contest. First of all, remember that this is written for D20 3.5, and all the rules that go with it. One quickened fog cloud on top of black tentacles will trivially neutralize the entire party. Next round, acid fog starts melting everyone inside.:smallbiggrin: While I agree that V would win ... you just went on a streak of spells that V can't actually cast. Banned Conjuration, remember?