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metlink
2010-10-04, 05:09 PM
I played D&D for years and I tried experimenting with all the alignments in D&D 3e. What I want to know is this: how does one play a chaotic alignment well? By well, I mean it does not break the group and does not fufill the 'Chaotic Stupid' either.

I tried several times to play CG and CN, but it degenerated into being absolutely silly or being more aligned NG or N. There was a single exception, but given the campaign setting- it too became silly by the end. Any advice? Thanks a lot.

The-Mage-King
2010-10-04, 05:11 PM
Think like Sparrow (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Jack_Sparrow), and you're there.

zenanarchist
2010-10-04, 05:13 PM
I played D&D for years and I tried experimenting with all the alignments in D&D 3e. What I want to know is this: how does one play a chaotic alignment well? By well, I mean it does not break the group and does not fufill the 'Chaotic Stupid' either.

I tried several times to play CG and CN, but it degenerated into being absolutely silly or being more aligned NG or N. There was a single exception, but given the campaign setting- it too became silly by the end. Any advice? Thanks a lot.

I'm playing a chaotic neutral character now. It's not really exceptionally hard.

I'll give you a brief run down. He believes in honour, as he's a dragon knight, however we've met a really shady thief who my character (a rather huge draconic elf) has slammed against a wall to threaten multiple times. Also, he's prone to not thinking things through and just running headlong into combat.

Consider chaotic people to be slightly insane. One minute they're calm and stable, the next they're beating the living hell out of an evil prisoner to get information. Where as a lawful good character wouldn't touch the prisoner, a chaotic good character would.

That's my impression of it anyway.

EDIT: And like the above and below posts, ignore rules and regulations. You make your own. And you can freely lie without worrying about your alignment shifting.

Mando Knight
2010-10-04, 05:14 PM
It helps if you're arbitrarily suspicious of any kind of rules and regulations.

Or, like Sandvich, be a loose cannon, but a damn good cop. (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/9/9a/Heavy_sandwichtaunt12.wav)

truemane
2010-10-04, 05:22 PM
It's funny how complicated alignment discussions are. When I started playing D&D we never spent any time on them. It all seemed so clear. Anyway.

I always see Alignments as a world-view. If you're Lawful, you tend to appeal to higher authority to solve your problems, tend to think in terms of rules and agreements, tend to think people work best in organized groups and tend to thinh cooperation is more efficient than competition.

If you're chaotic, the opposite is true. You tend to think that rules and laws just make things worse and tend to think that people should solve their own problems. You tend to think that people work better as individuals and that organization is not a great thing.

Note I said 'tend.' Overly sematic definitions of alignments are the problem, not the solution, to the alignment debate.

I've played lots of chaotic characters. Never a crazy one. Or even an unstable one. I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral character now who is very sane and very stable. He just has no concern for morality. Good and Evil mean nothing to him, only his own survival. And the only thing he believes in is the primacy of his own freedom.

WarKitty
2010-10-04, 05:26 PM
Most people say I'm rather chaoticly aligned in RL, so I'll chime in.

It doesn't mean you do whatever you want to. A chaotic character can still be fundamentally selfless. The main point is the rules don't matter. As far as my own moral system, I firmly believe there is no useful non-trivial absolute moral rule. There are morally better and worse actions in a given situation, but they resist any attempt to codify them. Similarly, rules are, well, guidelines. Social mores and even laws are as likely to perpetuate evil as good. Governments are fundamentally interested in power and have to be kept in close check.

In short, do what you think is best and to hell with what society and the law think.

zenanarchist
2010-10-04, 05:28 PM
I've played lots of chaotic characters. Never a crazy one. Or even an unstable one. I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral character now who is very sane and very stable. He just has no concern for morality. Good and Evil mean nothing to him, only his own survival. And the only thing he believes in is the primacy of his own freedom.

That, actually, will probably answer your question right there. No concern for morality. Good and Evil have no place in the world.

Then again....it's up to each individual player to define what chaotic means to their character as well.

dsmiles
2010-10-04, 05:29 PM
Most people say I'm rather chaoticly aligned in RL, so I'll chime in.

It doesn't mean you do whatever you want to. A chaotic character can still be fundamentally selfless. The main point is the rules don't matter. As far as my own moral system, I firmly believe there is no useful non-trivial absolute moral rule. There are morally better and worse actions in a given situation, but they resist any attempt to codify them. Similarly, rules are, well, guidelines. Social mores and even laws are as likely to perpetuate evil as good. Governments are fundamentally interested in power and have to be kept in close check.

In short, do what you think is best and to hell with what society and the law think.

Well played.

(And I'm still seeing you as a green viking orc. :smalltongue:)

Daze
2010-10-04, 05:31 PM
The easiest way to play a chaotic character well is to simply show no respect for authority. The whole idea of being chaotic is that you shun law & order.

If your CG this means that you believe governments cause more problems then they solve and that to be truly good you must live on the "edge" so to speak. Not to say you wont ever do anything for a government, but generally speaking you abhor them.

If your CE, obviously your roleplaying gets easier... hate government, hate good, hate everything. Most monsters and baddies are CE for this reason.

CN can be the trickiest and is easily the most "insane" chaotic option. Not to say you couldn't play a character who merely disregarded good & evil for the sake of chaos. But to say that such a character can be "sane & normal" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
I mean seriously... how can you have no regard for good or evil but simply revel in chaos and not be a little nutty?

oh.. and PS...
Insane or nutty does not necessarily mean "stupid". I've played some classic crazy CN characters. Played with some thought, they can be tons of fun... not stupidly annoying.

MachineWraith
2010-10-04, 05:34 PM
Yeah, I absolutely do not think that chaotic has to equal insane, even a little bit.

The way I see it, chaotic characters have more respect for personal freedoms than for any sort of law. A chaotic character would be likely to be a vigilante, would be against even sanctioned slavery, etc.

A chaotic character resents any attempt by anyone to exert any control over anyone else. A Chaotic Neutral character, in my opinion, would value personal freedom over all.

WarKitty
2010-10-04, 05:35 PM
That, actually, will probably answer your question right there. No concern for morality. Good and Evil have no place in the world.

Then again....it's up to each individual player to define what chaotic means to their character as well.

That's the good/evil axis though. A chaotic character can be anything from highly moral to outright evil.

zenanarchist
2010-10-04, 05:37 PM
I think insanity (to a degree) plays a part. It even defines that in the chaotic neutral entry in the Players Handbook. I don't mean outright loopy. I mean people that have it together (lawful or neutral) tend to respect things one way or the other (or no way at all if neutral) but chaotic people don't have that boundary. That little line that tells them stop.

It's not necessarily insanity so much as "devil-may-care"

Lord Vukodlak
2010-10-04, 05:37 PM
The most important thing to remember is alignments are guidelines and not strait jackets, to many players ignore that passage in the PHB. Their are many ways to do it so I'll just focus on a few bits of advice.

First don't think of yourself as Chaotic Good but Good Chaotic, put the good first. Just because your chaotic doesn't mean your required to always buck authority especially if the law doesn't effect you and isn't clearly evil.

For a lawful character you often have a code and when faced with the moral decision refer to your code. For a chaotic good character do whatever feels right at the time and screw any code. "If you can't do something smart do something right"
And its alright to let your friend talk you down if doing the "right thing" would be really stupid at the time. Plenty of stories have chaotic good characters who are at times restrained by their friends from being to hasty or brash.

For my own chaotic good lizardman character Zorr, he tends to ignore rules, law and authority if he thinks it interferes with doing good. Its not that he's opposed to authority he simply only follows it when it happens to coincide with what he was going to do anyway.

Of course whats the fun of being chaotic if you don't get to push peoples buttons on occasion. Zorr knows that walking around the town of Sternhaven in fullplate fully armed makes the population nerves. He also knows that no guard wants to start a fight with a 7ft lizardman encased in adamantine. So obviously he does it.

If you want a martial role model for Chaotic Good look to Minsc.

Daze
2010-10-04, 05:50 PM
The most important thing to remember is alignments are guidelines and not strait jackets, to many players ignore that passage in the PHB. Their are many ways to do it so I'll just focus on a few bits of advice.
Well put... The idea of an alignment is to guide you, not confine you.



For a lawful character you often have a code and when faced with the moral decision refer to your code. For a chaotic good character do whatever feels right at the time and screw any code. "If you can't do something smart do something right" And its alright to let your friend talk you down if doing the "right thing" would be really stupid at the time. Plenty of stories have chaotic good characters who are at times restrained by their friends from being to hasty or brash.

That's almost exactly how situations always play out. The neutral good warrior telling the chaotic good thief that maybe now is not the best time for him to go on one of his/her lengthy jaunts in the woods (or whatever). The chaotic character tends to be one who rushes in when compared to the more focused neutral or lawful character.
There are exceptions to that of course... but that's a good general guideline.

By the way.. like your handle. That the death metal band or Vampire the Masquerade: redemption?

Christof for the win! heh

Lord Vukodlak
2010-10-04, 05:55 PM
By the way.. like your handle. That the death metal band or Vampire the Masquerade: redemption?

Christof for the win! heh

Wow everyone always guesses the death metal band, but your the only one to correctly guess I got it from Vampire the Masquerade.

Grynning
2010-10-04, 06:00 PM
Just think of the huge list of chaotically aligned characters throughout fiction:
Conan, Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Captain Jack Sparrow, Wolverine, Dr. House, Dr. Cox, Dirty Harry, V, etc, etc, etc. None of them act "at random," all of them have motivations and goals, it's just that they achieve those goals THEIR way, and don't give a damn if they break all the rules in the course of doing so.

Also, this thread is a good excuse to post one of my favorite D&Demotivators:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/015/f/2/Demotivation___Chaotic_Good_by_quicksilver22.jpg

Daze
2010-10-04, 06:04 PM
Wow everyone always guesses the death metal band, but your the only one to correctly guess I got it from Vampire the Masquerade.

I seriously loved that game... I wish WhiteWolf kept that style for its video game franchise. Haven't really enjoyed one as much since.

And to stay on topic... Malkavians are great examples of CN characters, and Brujah of CG. Although Christof was probably closer to LG, old-school Brujah. :smallcool:

Grynning
2010-10-04, 06:06 PM
And to stay on topic... Malkavians are great examples of CN characters, and Brujah of CG. Although Christof was probably closer to LG, old-school Brujah. :smallcool:

Um...not to get too OFF topic, but characterizing any Vampire characters from White Wolf as having "good" alignments is WAY off. They manipulate, murder and feed on humans as a way of life. Not evil, necessarily, but certainly not good.

Daze
2010-10-04, 06:08 PM
Um...not to get too OFF topic, but characterizing any Vampire characters from White Wolf as having "good" alignments is WAY off. They manipulate, murder and feed on humans as a way of life. Not evil, necessarily, but certainly not good.

Oh absolutely... Transfer any WW vampire to D&D's world and they are certainly evil. Neutral at best if they take care on whom & what they feed.

Relative to their own world of darkness and bloodsucking I should have specified previously. My bad.

metlink
2010-10-04, 06:11 PM
I go to dinner and come back to see a thread full of posts! Having sifted through them, I really appreciate the advice given and now have a good idea of what to do. I am going to save this thread for off-line purposes, so I will have some guidelines.

I felt I always played Lawful characters across the axis' pretty well or excellent. The neutrals with me had mix, some wonderful and some not so wonderful (Playing them, memorable or not, etc). But yes, after reading this whole thread- I feel more confident and more knowledgeable to play these types of characters effectively.

Thanks a lot all. :)

TheMeMan
2010-10-04, 06:58 PM
Well, as examples of different "types" of chaotic", two of my characters were chaotic and this was their various things:

I had a Chaotic Neutral Psychic Warrior. His only obligation were to family honor, in a sense, and felt that the laws were arbitrary restrictions. He wouldn't go out of his way to break such laws(Be they societal "laws" or literal laws), but wouldn't do the same to follow them. He had a sense of "right" and "wrong", but viewed these as personal constructs, not something to applied to other. It was simply because of familial honor, and guilt if undo harm towards someone who didn't deserve it, but it hardly slowed him for a moment, and he never dwelled on it(Exception in one particular case notwithstanding). He was the type to leap before you look, and in the course of action would often take the most agressive(Occasionally reckless, but not necessarily so) route of action.

For instance, a pool of lava seperated us from a group of casters who were pounding us pretty hard. He took a running leap across this lava, as it was the most direct(And awesome) route, attempting a 70 ft jump. It helps I was able to boost my jump by quite a bit with that first level power(forget the name), and I had a ring that added to the jump. It also hurt that he was in full plate. However, it did succeed, albeit barely, and he dispatched the casters rather easily. Now, he's not stupid, knew the risks, but considered the possible reward(Particularly glory-he was sort of big on this for reasons due to backstory. He was attempting to rebuild family honor from disgrace, and wanted his name to go down in history-regardless of consequence. Thus, he was prone to take on a bit more than he could chew, for certain reasons).

Needless to say, he was actually in a more grey area between Neutral and Chaotic neutral, so really this is just highlighting a problem.

The second was a little Chaotic Evil Kobold I had. He had friends, liked his friends, and generally treated them well-enough(Although he had a Napoleon complex, and would constantly berate the other characters for their weakness-real or imaginary. Note, he was in a game with a Flind, Dracotaur, and a few other rather large beasts. He honestly thought he was "better" in every way, shape, and form, and could fight them(This was largely due to him being very young, and seen as the "younger brother" of the group, and the others just dealing with his crap. They honestly liked him, and saw him as sort of good-natured, in a sense(Or, more precisely, he didn't necessarily mean any harm). That said, he was also insane. Due to hallucinogentic drugs being a constant part of his "spiritual" regiment. He would generally attempt to help, however due to his insanity, might get it "wrong". However I made a conscious effort to keep his silly antics to a minimum(That weren non-harmful to party cohesion), and his "screw ups" were actually planned out in such a way as to be portrayed as screw ups, even though I was doing things consciously(Casting the "wrong" spell, for instance, but still ariving at either the desired affect, or a similar one).
He was also one to not even think of the future, not out of conscious effort, but instead out the fact that it didn't exist to him, nor did the past. He could set a village on fire for a particular reason(Usually "good"-natured, such as to get rid of rat infestations), and then be confused as to why people would be angry because he did exactly what they "wanted" him to do, often times without being asked to do it in the first place. He would then move on, and never recall the event again, as it was something that happened then, rather than now. And then is no longer perptenate, and if then is no longer a matter of discussion, then thinking about future effects is pointless, as it relies on events leading up to it, which would at that point in time be the past. That said, much like before, I tried quite hard to make sure that it wasn't something that was actually disruptive, and if I planned on destroyed anything that may have been important, I would always que my DM in and he would say "Go fer it" or "No". Likewise, he wasn't terribly stupid, but terribly egomaniacal, and often "reckless"(Or given the appearance of that, at least). However, he was also a coward, and would run if things got to tough(Unless you got him pumped up by telling him how great and awesome he is).

That was a fun one, and everybody enjoyed him.

However, neither of these are definitive of chaotic, only different parts of this whole thing called "chaotic". There are varying degrees, and the alignments grade into one another, so it is rather difficult.

JaxGaret
2010-10-04, 07:09 PM
Here's an easy way to wrap your head around Chaotic and Lawful:

Lawful = Logic-driven

Chaotic = Emotion-driven

It works well in most cases.

Ilmryn
2010-10-04, 07:31 PM
The problems with chaotic(and lawful for that matter) alignments is that they are very dependent on the good-evil axis. In my gaming experience, good-evil is more important than law-chaos. There is simply much more difference between CG and CE than there is between LG and CG. The chaotic aspect of a CG character is very different from the chaotic aspect of a CE character, while the good aspects of LG and CG characters are much more similar.