A New Fighter "Fix" Concept (Involves Heroes of Battle, PEACH)

[Ziegander]

I'm not suggesting that the Fighter get made into the de facto battlefield leader, although it would easy to adapt him into that role. I ran across Victory Points while looking over the HoB book, and in the section it details several different ways to gain Victory Points through tactical war maneuvering. The only way to utilize these VPs are to influence the outcome of an actual war, which I found rather disappointing, BUT it inspired me to attempt to think of ways someone might use them outside of a pitched military operation.

My idea was that the Fighter, whether he has been trained in the military or not, is a character possessed of such a tactical mind that he is able to apply war strategies to everyday life, and smaller scale, "adventurous" conflicts. To this aim, he is able to gain Victory Points on even a round per round basis, and an encounter by encounter basis. He would be able to spend these points to assist the rest of his unit, aka his fellow PCs, or to perform extraordinary feats of martial prowess. Points would last for quite a long time, probably all day in fact. VPs gained during encounters would be halved after the end of the encounter (because the impact of round by round victories is felt much less after the encounter is over). VPs gained as a result of a successful encounter persist in full.

In this way the Fighter is least powerful at the beginning of a day, but gains power throughout the day the more often he and his party are able to gain strategic advantages over their foes and/or obstacles.

Victory Points could be earned in such mundane ways as making sure the party is carrying adequate food and water for the day, or keeping the party's equipment in optimum working order (sharpened blades, secured armor, etc). Round per round, the Fighter could protect an ally spellcaster while he casts a spell, assist an ally Rogue by flanking, or disrupt an enemy's action with an attack, etc. Encounter by encounter, the Fighter might assist his party in defeating an enemy commander, securing a strategic location, or destroying an item/device of importance to their foes, etc.

Warning: This may seem incredibly powerful. This is quite intentional. I am aiming for smack in the middle Tier 2 (I'm talking about rivaling a strong Sorcerer, here), so it is supposed to be more powerful and versatile than an equal level Warblade. Your mileage may vary. PLEASE EVALUATE AND CRITIQUE HONESTLY.

The Fighter

The Fighter is a versatile combatant who specializes in assisting his less battle-savvy allies and interrupting the actions of his foes. A savant in the arts of war, he is able to apply the strategies of grand scale conflicts to the everyday skirmishes and challenges of adventuring. Disciplined and skilled, a Fighter is capable in a wide breadth of tactical situations including ambush, operating or disabling mundane or magical weaponry, acting as combat medic, and gathering and providing critical intel to his team about locations and creatures. In fact, it is through the implementation of such warlike tactics that the Fighter is able to reach new heights of victory, using his successes to unfurl well-planned strategies upon the battlefield. A Fighter can provide invaluable guidance and leadership to his allies, or surprise his foes with brutally efficient assaults.

This highly modified Fighter class is no longer the beginner's class. Although it retains the simple, customization gained through many bonus feats, many of its class features require a detailed understanding of game mechanics, and it's Strategy and Victory system is complex and robust. Playing a Fighter of this type requires cleverness, planning, and a sense of tactical maneuvering in much the same way as playing a battlefield controller Wizard might.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Strategy Level|
Max VP

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Martial Focus, Bonus Feat|
1st|
20

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Expert Aid|
1st|
40

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
2nd|
60

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Advanced Attacks|
2nd|
80

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
3rd|
100

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Improved Delay|
3rd|
120

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat|
4th|
140

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Blindsense|
4th|
160

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
5th|
180

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Timely Aid|
5th|
200

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
6th|
220

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Innovative Attacks|
6th|
240

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat|
7th|
260

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Through the Haze|
7th|
280

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
300

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Greater Delay|
8th|
320

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
360

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Superior Aid|
9th|
400

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat|
9th|
450

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Masterful Attacks|
9th|
500[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device, and Use Rope.

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons. All light, medium, and heavy armor. All shields (including Tower Shields).

Strategies: Fighters utilize large scale war techniques adapted to the microcosm that is the life of an adventurer. With these Strategies he is able to gain an advantage in combat encounters, overcome obstacles, and navigate social intrigues. Etc... (mechanics and fluff still need to be fully worked out). At first level a Fighter knows three 1st level Strategies and he learns an additional one Strategy every class level. As he gains level he is able to learn higher level Strategies as shown in the table above.

Bonus Feats: At 1st level and every odd level thereafter Fighters gain a bonus feat chosen from the list of Fighter Feats.

Martial Focus (Ex): As a swift or immediate action a Fighter may take 10 on a single attack roll, opposed roll, or saving throw against any creature he has attacked or targeted with a spell or ability on his previous turn. At 5th level he may take 15 with this swift or immediate action, and may once per round, without spending any action, even if it isn't his turn, take 10 against such a creature. At 10th level he may take 20 with this swift or immediate action. At 15th level he may take 10 in this way any number of times in a round.

Expert Aid (Ex): A 2nd level Fighter may take 10 on Aid Another attempts (PHB 154), may make them from any distance as long as he has line of sight to both the friend and the friend's opponent, and finally may make them as a move action instead of, or in addition to, a standard action.

Advanced Attacks (Ex): A 4th level Fighter may make a single Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Sunder, or Trip attempt as a free action against any foe he hits with a melee attack. He doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for making a ranged attack while threatened.

Improved Delay (Ex): A 6th level Fighter may delay his action (see Delay, PHB 160) in one round without changing his Initiative in the next round. Additionally, when he delays in this way he may interrupt another creature's actions as though he had readied an action to do so (though he need not specify the intention to do so beforehand).

Blindsense (Ex): An 8th level Fighter gains Blindsense (MM 316) out to a number of feet equal to 5 times Fighter level.

Timely Aid (Ex): A 10th level Fighter's Aid Another attempts grant a +5 bonus to attack rolls or AC or to his friend's next saving throw, and he may make Aid Another attempts as swift or immediate actions instead of, or in addition to, move actions or standard actions. Additionally, if the friend's next attack or save succeeds, or the friend's opponent's next attack fails, the Fighter gains an additional Standard Action during his next turn. The Fighter may not gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Innovative Attacks (Ex): A 12th level Fighter may use any of the following skills once as part of a single melee attack - Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Sleight of Hand, Swim, or Tumble. He may use any of the following skills once as part of a single ranged attack - Balance, Concentration, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, or Spot.

Through the Haze (Ex): Starting at 13th level, you gain True Seeing regarding any foes you have successfully hit or targeted with a spell or ability or any foes that have successfully hit you or targeted you with a spell or ability in the previous round. The range of this True Seeing is limited to 5ft per two Fighter levels.

Greater Delay (Ex): Whenever a 16th level or higher Fighter interrupts another creature's actions with his Improved Delay feature the Fighter may choose to have that creature delay its action until the end of the round. If the creature would normally be the last to act this feature has no additional effect.

Superior Aid (Ex): Starting at 18th level if the target of the Fighter's aid another attempt succeeds with his attack or save, or if the target's opponent's next attack fails, the target gains an additional Standard Action during his or her next turn. No creature may gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Masterful Attacks (Ex): A 20th level Fighter's melee attacks ignore Damage Reduction and Hardness. Additionally he ignores invisibility, cover, concealment, incorporeality, or etherealness with any attacks he makes.

Thoughts?

[Ziegander]

To better illustrate what I mean, allow me to paraphrase/rewrite some of the Heroes of Battle ways in which Victory Points can be obtained, and then throw out some very off-the-top-of-my-head mechanics.

Victory Awards

Assist Friendly Units
Award 5 Victory Points/CR of units assisted
To earn victory points you must provide tangible aid to a unit of allied creatures. Such aid can consist of instructions, healing, other beneficial magic, or rallying demoralized allies. To gain VP in this way a Fighter must provide a bonus of any type to an ally's abilities, attacks, checks, or saves, grant temporary hp or even heal allies or provide them with some other beneficial effect (such as remove curse, or flame arrow).

Defeat Enemy Units
Award 5 Victory Points/CR of units defeated
The most basic victory award - defeat the enemy. To earn victory points you must personally disable or kill an enemy or cause an enemy to retreat. If you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points, cause it to flee from you in fear and not return, or cause it to surrender to you, you gain VP. You do no gain VP for enemies your allies defeat.

Disrupt Enemy Command
Award 5 Victory Points/CR of units disrupted
In addition to earning victory points for defeating your enemies, if you defeat an enemy commander you earn extra points for the units that were under its command. This can also be an effective way to end or avoid encounters, as often without a command to attack or harry you and your party these units would simply go about their business. Knowing the enemy command structure is key, so keep a sharp eye, and make sure your intel is reliable.

Disrupt Enemy Supply
Award 5 Victory Points/CR of units denied supplies
To earn victory points you must destroy or seize the basic survival amenities of your foes, cutting them off from nourishment and relief. This must include food, water, and any equipment (you need not divest foes of equipment on their person merely deny them access to other caches of equipment).

Establish Offensive Point
Award 5 Victory Points/CR of units established
To earn victory points you and any allies must attack from an advantageous position, be this higher ground, flanking, sniping from from, etc. If you would gain a bonus to attack rolls or AC because of the position you earn VP.

Protect Defensive Point
Award 10 Victory Points/CR of units protected
To earn victory points prevent enemies from seizing a valuable point of defense from you and your allies. This could mean anything from a series of low barricades and trenches, to a dungeon room that you've set up to camp in, a stone tower, or a full blown walled keep. For each ally that is conscious at the end of such a skirmish you gain the listed VP.

Protect Maneuver Point
Award 10 Victory Points/CR of units protected
To earn victory points you must prevent your enemies from seizing an important movement-based location occupied by your allies. For each ally that is conscious at the end of such a skirmish you gain the listed VP. The DM may grant double or even triple standard victory points if he deems the location especially important.

Provide Intelligence
Award 10 Victory Points/CR of creature identified
To earn victory points make a successful Knowledge check against a creature of the appropriate type and communicate the results to your allies. For each extra bit of information you get from your DM (by succeeding on the check by 5 or more) you earn 5 extra victory points.

Seize Maneuver Point
Award 10 Victory Points/CR of units defeated
To earn victory points you must defeat all enemy units occupying an important movement-based location, such as higher ground, mountain passes, or river fords. The DM may grant double or even triple standard victory points if he deems the location especially important.

Some more to come...

So that's a couple different examples of in combat, round-by-round tactics, and out of combat, encounter-by-encounter tactics. Now, on to stuff the Fighter could potentially do with these victory points.

Fighter Strategies

Expert Instruction
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: 10 minutes
Target: One ally (not including yourself)
Range: 60ft
Duration: 24 hours
Effect: The targeted ally gains a +1 insight bonus to opposed checks, to Armor Class, and to Fortitude saving throws for 24 hours. No ally may benefit from Expert Instruction more than once per day.

Dirt Nap
Strategy 1 [Mind Affecting]
Cost: 10VP
Action: Swift
Target: One tripped creature
Range: Melee
Effect: As your enemy falls to the ground you give him a final shove, slamming him into the dirt, and knocking him unconscious if he fails a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 Fighter level+Str modifier) as if effected by the Sleep spell. Dirt Nap has no effect effect on creatures whose HD equals or exceeds 3+Fighter Level.

Distracting Boast
Strategy 1 (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Cost: 10VP
Action: Full Round
Range: Line of Sight
Duration: Concentration (see text)
Effect: Any creatures within the range that the Fighter designates, that are able to see the Fighter, and whose total HD does not exceed 4+2xFighter level must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Fighter level+Cha modifier). Those that fail are Fascinated for the duration. In order to maintain this effect, each round the Fighter must make a Full Attack with a melee weapon. Any creature Fascinated in this way may instead attack the Fighter or target him with a harmful spell or ability, but such creatures do not get additional saving throws against Distracting Boast, nor is the fascinating effect automatically broken for such creatures in the face of obvious threats.

Fighter's Command
Strategy 1 (Fear) [Language Dependent, Mind Affecting]
Cost: 10VP
Action: Standard
Target: One threatened creature
Range: Variable (see text)
Duration: 1 round
Effect: A creature you threaten makes a Will save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Cha modifier). If it's save fails it is effected as if by the Command spell. If it succeeds you may make a single attack against it. Fighter's Command has no effect if more creatures threaten you than threaten the target, or if the target's HD equals or exceeds 3+Fighter Level.

Enlist Soldier I
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: 1 Round
Duration: 10 minutes/Fighter level + see text
Effect: Using your reputation as a champion warrior rather than money you are able to recruit a sword to your cause. After using this strategy a 1st level NPC Warrior or Expert appears, of any LA 0 race, with any feats and skills of your choice (that it could normally qualify for or are normally on its skill list), and with the following ability scores placed as you like - 17 16 14 13 10 8. After the duration expires, if the recruit is still alive, it will flee and return home if it is shaken, frightened, or panicked, or if it ever has less than 50% hp, but until such time it will continue to fight for you. This strategy may not be used while you are in a location that the recruit couldn't enter or exit, and the DM may rule that it can't be used while you are in a location where you couldn't normally hire the recruit with money.

True Focus
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Standard
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round
Effect: Choose a weapon with which you are proficient. Before the end of your next turn you may add a +20 insight bonus to an attack roll made with that weapon. If you do, your attack also ignores concealment less than total concealment.

Fan Service
Strategy 1 (Charm) [Language Dependent, Mind Affecting]
Cost: 10VP
Action: Standard
Target: One humanoid creature
Range: Line of sight
Duration: Concentration (see text)
Effect: The target recognizes you from stories he's heard of your exploits. If it fails its Will save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Cha modifier) treat its attitude as friendly as long as you concentrate and engage it in conversation. This works as the Charm Person except that any time you ask the creature for a favor or attempt to give it an order it gets an additional saving throw to end this effect. A creature that has succeeded its save against Fan Service is immune to it for 1 month.

Tidal Strike
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Full Turn
Area: 15ft cone
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Make a single melee attack roll and compare it to the AC of each creature in the area. You may attack any creatures whose AC is lower than the attack roll, but those creatures get a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Dex modifier) to halve the damage. After using this strategy you must move to any of the squares at the farthest reach of the area. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Bellowing Strike
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Range: Weapon range
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Make an attack against the target that deals 2d6 extra damage +1d6/Fighter level (max 6d6).

Butchering Blows
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 minute/level (see text)
Effect: You enter a vicious stance and prepare to carve up your foes. While this strategy lasts your melee attacks deal 1 Strength damage in addition to their normal effects (Fort negates, DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Str modifier). This strategy ends after 1 minute/Fighter level or after you make a number of successful attacks like this equal to 3+Fighter level.

Burst of Speed
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Move
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round/Fighter level (see text)
Effect: Move up to your speed +30ft. You may do this once during each of your turns for a number of rounds equal to your Fighter level; however, this effect ends at the end of your turn if you didn't move that turn.

This is a Good Sword
Strategy 1
Cost: 10VP
Action: Standard
Target: One weapon
Range: Touch
Duration: 24 hours
Effect: Testing the weight, balance, and overall effectiveness of a weapon you deem it "good" (whether you actually believe this or not). For the rest of the day the weapon gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and is considered a magical weapon. Any creature who wields the weapon may choose to make a Will disbelief save to negate the effect (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Cha modifier, harmless, only total jerks would do this).

Rout the Enemy!
Strategy 2 (Fear) [Mind Affecting]
Cost: 30VP
Action: Full Turn
Area: 60ft cone effect
Duration: 1 round/Fighter level
Effect: Enemies within the area whose total HD doesn't exceed 8+2xFighter level are Frightened for the duration if they fail a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Fighter level+Cha modifier). Those that succeed are Shaken and halve the duration.

Brain Damage
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Range: Weapon range
Effect: Make an attack against a creature. If the attack hits the struck creature is dealt 1d6 Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma damage and is Confused for 1 round.

Dust Up
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Swift
Range: 5ft
Area: 5ft
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: You kick up a small cloud of dust coating everyone and everything in the area with it and vaguely outlining invisible things in it. In addition creatures in the area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Dex modifier) or be blinded for 1 round. By spending a Full Round action a creature may shake off all the dust.

Enlist Soldier II
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
As Enlist Soldier I, except that the Warrior or Expert is 3rd level, and has these abilities - 19, 17, 16, 15, 12, 10.

Dazing Blow
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Range: Weapon range
Effect: Make an attack against the target. If the attack hits and the target fails a Will save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Str modifier) it is dazed for 1d6+2 rounds. Dazing Blow has no effect on creatures whose HD equals or exceeds 5+Fighter Level.

Marauder's Campaign
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Full Turn
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 minute/level (see text)
Effect: You adopt a rampaging stance focusing on using your bulk to full effect. When you use this strategy, and each round of the duration, you may move up to twice your speed as a full round action. You may move through any occupied squares during this movement, even those occupied by enemies, though you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal. Creatures in squares you move through in this way are dealt 4d6+2xStr modifier bludgeoning damage as you crash through them (Reflex DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Str modifier halves). This strategy ends after 1 minute/Fighter level or after you crash through a number of creatures in this way equal to 3+Fighter level.

Fade Into Obscurity
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Make a single Hide check even while being observed and without the need of cover or concealment.

Victorious Vigor
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Standard
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 hour/Fighter level
Effect: You gain 5 temporary hit points per Fighter level. These temporary hit points don't stack with other temporary hit points you may have.

Grisly Blow
Strategy 2
Cost: 30VP
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Range: Weapon range
Duration: 1 round/Fighter level
Effect: Make an attack against the target. If the attack hits the target and all enemies able to see the target must make Fort saves (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Wis modifier). If the target fails it is nauseated for the duration. If any other creature fails it is sickened for the duration.

Enlist Soldier III
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
As Enlist Soldier I, except that the Warrior or Expert is 5th level, and has these abilities - 21, 18, 18, 17, 14, 10. A Warrior hired this way has the Dungeoncrasher ability. An Expert hired this way has the Trapfinding and Trap Sense abilities.

Greater Dirt Nap
Strategy 3 [Mind Affecting]
Cost: 45VP
As Dirt Nap, however this strategy can effect creatures with any number of HD. Further, if a creature successfully saves against this strategy it is Staggered for 1 round and Slowed for 1 round/Fighter level.

Heroic Instruction
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
Action: 10 minutes
Target: One creature
Range: 60ft
Duration: 24 hours
Effect: Teaching an ally what it means to fight you grant the target a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls, skill and ability checks, and to saving throws for the next 24 hours. No ally may benefit from Heroic Instruction more than once per day.

Backbreaker
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
Action: Standard
Target: One humanoid creature
Range: Melee
Duration: 1 round/Fighter level
Effect: Make a melee attack against a humanoid creature. If the attack hits and the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Str modifier) it is Paralyzed for the duration. Regardless, the attack deals 4d6 extra damage.

Fighter's Suggestion
Strategy 3 (Fear) [Language Dependent, Mind Affecting]
Cost: 45VP
Action: Standard
Target: One threatened creature
Range: Variable (see text)
Duration: 1 hour/Fighter level or until completed
Effect: A creature you threaten makes a Will save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Cha modifier). If it's save fails it is effected as if by the Suggestion spell. If it succeeds you may make a single attack against it. Fighter's Command has no effect if more creatures threaten you than threaten the target, or if the target's HD equals or exceeds 7+Fighter Level.

Lightning Charge
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
Action: Full Turn
Area: Line effect, 5ft wide, length equal to 5 times your speed
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Move up to 5 times your speed through any occupied squares, even those occupied by enemies, and without provoking attacks of opportunity. Make a single melee attack roll and compare it to the AC of creatures occupying any square you moved through. You may attack any creatures whose AC is lower than the attack roll, but those creatures get a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Dex modifier) to halve the damage. These attacks deal 1d8 extra damage/Fighter level.

Vitalizing Strike
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
Action: Standard
Target: One creature
Range: Weapon range
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Make an attack against a creature within range. That attack deals 1d6 extra damage per two Fighter levels. If the attack hits you regain hit points equal to 1/2 the total damage dealt.

This is an Excellent Sword
Strategy 3
Cost: 45VP
Action: Standard
Target: One weapon
Range: Touch
Duration: 24 hours
Effect: Testing the weight, balance, and overall effectiveness of a weapon you deem it "excellent" (whether you actually believe this or not). For the rest of the day the weapon gains an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to +1 per four Fighter levels and is considered a magical weapon. Any creature who wields the weapon may choose to make a Will disbelief save to negate the effect (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Cha modifier, harmless, only total jerks would do this).

Foil Action
Strategy 4
Cost: 60VP
Action: Immediate
Target: One creature
Range: 15ft
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Move up to 15ft and attack a creature within the range. Your attack interrupts the creature's actions as if you had readied an action to do so. If the attack hits, the creature's actions fail (spells fizzle, movement is halted, potions are wasted, etc).

Fervent Denial
Strategy 4
Cost: 60VP
Action: Immediate
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: Against a single 1st, 2nd, or 3rd spell you are not considered a legal target, nor are you considered to occupy your square for determining area effects.

Enlist Soldier IV
Strategy 4
Cost: 60VP
As Enlist Soldier I, except that the Warrior or Expert is 7th level, and has these abilities - 25, 20, 19, 17, 17, 14. A Warrior hired this way has the Dungeoncrasher and Pounce abilities. An Expert hired this way has the Trapfinding, Trap Sense, and Distracting Attack abilities.

Greater Fan Service
Strategy 4 (Charm) [Mind Affecting]
Cost: 60VP
As Fan Service except that this is not a Language Dependent effect, and can effect non-humanoid creatures.

Improved Foil Action
Strategy 7
Cost: 105VP
Range: 30ft
As Foil Action, except that if your attack hits the creature must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2Fighter level+Wis modifier) or be unable to repeat their failed action for 5 rounds (if a spell fizzled the target can't cast spells, if their movement was halted the target can't move, if a potion was wasted the target can't drink potions, etc).

More to come...

[firemagehao]

This is a very interesting take on the fighter.
The Brain Crush power seems to powerful: Assuming a fight is against a fighter type enemy, a fighter with two wepon fighting, of a base of two attacks, could kill them instantly by lowering a stat to 0.
Possibly a higher cost?

[Ziegander]

This is a very interesting take on the fighter.

Thanks, I happen to think so too.


The Brain Crush power seems too powerful: Assuming a fight is against a fighter type enemy, a fighter with two weapon fighting, of a base of two attacks, could kill them instantly by lowering a stat to 0.
Possibly a higher cost?

Well, no matter how many attacks he has from base attack bonus the Fighter could only ever use Brain Crush (I've hence edited the name to Brain Damage) once per turn because it requires a Standard Action to use. However, you're probably on to something about the cost. By the time you're able to use 2nd level "strategies" you're able to get 15 and 30 VP every time you earn them, making the 20VP cost negligible. Anyway, all the mechanics are still pretty rough as I'm just drawing up numbers and drafts to see what it all looks like. In the end I want to make a Fighter class that is pretty darned powerful, possibly even Tier 2 category :O!

[Ziegander]

Warning: This may seem incredibly powerful. This is quite intentional. I am aiming for smack in the middle Tier 2 (I'm talking about rivaling a strong Sorcerer, here), so it is supposed to be more powerful and versatile than an equal level Warblade. Your mileage may vary.

The Fighter

The Fighter is a versatile combatant who specializes in assisting his less battle-savvy allies and interrupting the actions of his foes. A savant in the arts of war, he is able to apply the strategies of grand scale conflicts to the everyday skirmishes and challenges of adventuring. Disciplined and skilled, a Fighter is capable in a wide breadth of tactical situations including ambush, operating or disabling mundane or magical weaponry, acting as combat medic, and gathering and providing critical intel to his team about locations and creatures. In fact, it is through the implementation of such warlike tactics that the Fighter is able to reach new heights of victory, using his successes to unfurl well-planned strategies upon the battlefield. A Fighter can provide invaluable guidance and leadership to his allies, or surprise his foes with brutally efficient assaults.

This highly modified Fighter class is no longer the beginner's class. Although it retains the simple, customization gained through many bonus feats, many of its class features require a detailed understanding of game mechanics, and it's Strategy and Victory system is complex and robust. Playing a Fighter of this type requires cleverness, planning, and a sense of tactical maneuvering in much the same way as playing a battlefield controller Wizard might.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Strategy Level|
Max VP

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Martial Focus, Bonus Feat|
1st|
20

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Expert Aid|
1st|
40

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
2nd|
60

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Advanced Attacks|
2nd|
80

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
3rd|
100

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Improved Delay|
3rd|
120

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat|
4th|
140

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Tremorsense|
4th|
160

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
5th|
180

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Timely Aid|
5th|
200

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
6th|
220

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Innovative Attacks|
6th|
240

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat|
7th|
260

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Through the Haze|
7th|
280

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
300

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Greater Delay|
8th|
320

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
360

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Superior Aid|
9th|
400

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat|
9th|
450

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Masterful Attacks|
9th|
500[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device, and Use Rope.

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons. All light, medium, and heavy armor. All shields (including Tower Shields).

Strategies: Fighters utilize large scale war techniques adapted to the microcosm that is the life of an adventurer. With these Strategies he is able to gain an advantage in combat encounters, overcome obstacles, and navigate social intrigues. Etc... (mechanics and fluff still need to be fully worked out). At first level a Fighter knows three 1st level Strategies and he learns an additional two Strategies every class level. As he gains level he is able to learn higher level Strategies as shown in the table above.

Bonus Feats: At 1st level and every odd level thereafter Fighters gain a bonus feat chosen from the list of Fighter Feats.

Martial Focus (Ex): As a swift or immediate action a Fighter may take 10 on a single attack roll, opposed roll, or saving throw against any creature he has attacked or targeted with a spell or ability on his previous turn. At 5th level he may take 15 with this swift or immediate action, and may once per round, without spending any action, even if it isn't his turn, take 10 against such a creature. At 10th level he may take 20 with this swift or immediate action. At 15th level he may take 10 in this way any number of times in a round.

Expert Aid (Ex): A 2nd level Fighter may take 10 on Aid Another attempts (PHB 154), may make them from any distance as long as he has line of sight to both the friend and the friend's opponent, and finally may make them as a move action instead of, or in addition to, a standard action.

Advanced Attacks (Ex): A 4th level Fighter may make a single Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Sunder, or Trip attempt as a free action against any foe he hits with a melee attack. He doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for making a ranged attack while threatened.

Improved Delay (Ex): A 6th level Fighter may delay his action (see Delay, PHB 160) in one round without changing his Initiative in the next round. Additionally, when he delays in this way he may interrupt another creature's actions as though he had readied an action to do so (though he need not specify the intention to do so beforehand).

Tremorsense (Ex): An 8th level Fighter gains Tremorsense (MM 316) out to a number of feet equal to 5 times Fighter.

Timely Aid (Ex): A 10th level Fighter's Aid Another attempts grant a +5 bonus to attack rolls or AC or to his friend's next saving throw, and he may make Aid Another attempts as swift or immediate actions instead of, or in addition to, move actions or standard actions. Additionally, if the friend's next attack or save succeeds, or the friend's opponent's next attack fails, the Fighter gains an additional Standard Action during his next turn. The Fighter may not gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Innovative Attacks (Ex): A 12th level Fighter may use any of the following skills once as part of a single melee attack - Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Sleight of Hand, Swim, or Tumble. He may use any of the following skills once as part of a single ranged attack - Balance, Concentration, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, or Spot.

Through the Haze (Ex): Starting at 13th level, you gain True Seeing regarding any foes you have successfully hit or targeted with a spell or ability or any foes that have successfully hit you or targeted you with a spell or ability in the previous round. The range of this True Seeing is limited to 5ft per two Fighter levels.

Greater Delay (Ex): Whenever a 16th level or higher Fighter interrupts another creature's actions with his Improved Delay feature the Fighter may choose to have that creature delay its action until the end of the round. If the creature would normally be the last to act this feature has no additional effect.

Superior Aid (Ex): Starting at 18th level if the target of the Fighter's aid another attempt succeeds with his attack or save, or if the target's opponent's next attack fails, the target gains an additional Standard Action during his or her next turn. No creature may gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Masterful Attacks (Ex): A 20th level Fighter's melee attacks ignore Damage Reduction and Hardness. Additionally he ignores invisibility, cover, concealment, incorporeality, or etherealness with any attacks he makes.

[firemagehao]

Yay! you now have a chart!
Actually, if you haven't, the limit break system (see limit dragoon) seems like a good fit for this class if you want another class feature.

[Ziegander]

Yay! you now have a chart!
Actually, if you haven't, the limit break system (see limit dragoon) seems like a good fit for this class if you want another class feature.

Ah, okay, I had to review the system, but I definitely wouldn't want to add anything further to the class. The mechanics are similar but I don't want the Fighter's "spellcasting" to come for free. He performs tactical actions in and out of combat and he earns his power. It encourages the type of stuff Fighters should have always been doing and helps to flesh out a non-combat role as well.

I still have roughly 6 more Victory Award schematics to work out, and after that I just have to really light up the strategies section. What do you think of the class features? Anybody else have an opinion, or feedback?

EDIT: Added and edited quite a few more Victory Awards.

[Realms of Chaos]

A preface: I think that I might've gotten a wee bit heated in the text below. Please know that while I hate this specific class with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns, I have nothing against you as a person or as a homebrewer. :smalltongue:


Warning: This may seem incredibly powerful. This is quite intentional. I am aiming for smack in the middle Tier 2 (I'm talking about rivaling a strong Sorcerer, here), so it is supposed to be more powerful and versatile than an equal level Warblade. Your mileage may vary.

A word on this.
You may have heard in the past that tiers are merely a potential, not a guarantee. This means that even though wizards and druids and erudites have been proven superior when properly optimized, they can fall short when this is not the case. Many campaigns have wizards fighting alongside monks and ninjass without anyone seeming more powerful because tiers are only a measurement of power when you press things to the extreme. Among the classes out there, those in Tome of Battle are among the most idiot-proof out there and that is a large contributing factor as to why they are banned in a good many campaigns.
You have not followed this guid of what a tier is. More than any other class I've ever seen (even ToB classes), this class optimizes itself automatically... completely. Even if you choose your 10 feets terribly, choose the wrong skills, and choose awful armor and weaponry, this class still ends at "tier 2 power". This guy is completely worthless for every game except for tier 2+ (tier 2- :smallconfused:?) campaigns, which in actuality make up something like 20% of campaigns out there.
If you want a tier 2 class, put stress on options. Make sure that there are enough feats available and proper ability menus that a properly optimized fighter could function as tier 2 and less optimized ones can function in weaker campaigns. If you want, start with this class as a base and devolve it so that the same results can be reached by level 20 with the proper selection of resources. Otherwise, you've only "fixed" the class for 1 in 5 games.


The Fighter

The Fighter is a versatile combatant who specializes in assisting his less battle-savvy allies and interrupting the actions of his foes. A savant in the arts of war, he is able to apply the strategies of grand scale conflicts to the everyday skirmishes and challenges of adventuring. Disciplined and skilled, a Fighter is capable in a wide breadth of tactical situations including ambush, operating or disabling mundane or magical weaponry, acting as combat medic, and gathering and providing critical intel to his team about locations and creatures. In fact, it is through the implementation of such warlike tactics that the Fighter is able to reach new heights of victory, using his successes to unfurl well-planned strategies upon the battlefield. A Fighter can provide invaluable guidance and leadership to his allies, or surprise his foes with brutally efficient assaults.

This highly modified Fighter class is no longer the beginner's class. Although it retains the simple, customization gained through many bonus feats, many of its class features require a detailed understanding of game mechanics, and it's Strategy and Victory system is complex and robust. Playing a Fighter of this type requires cleverness, planning, and a sense of tactical maneuvering in much the same way as playing a battlefield controller Wizard might.


Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

No problems here. Fluff is fluff.


{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Strategy Level|
Max VP

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Martial Focus, Bonus Feat|
1st|
20

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Expert Aid|
1st|
40

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
2nd|
60

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Advanced Attacks|
2nd|
80

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|
3rd|
100

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Improved Delay|
3rd|
120

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat|
4th|
140

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Foil Action|
4th|
160

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
5th|
180

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Timely Aid|
5th|
200

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|
6th|
220

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Innovative Attacks|
6th|
240

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat|
7th|
260

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Improved Foil Action|
7th|
280

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
300

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Greater Delay|
8th|
320

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|
8th|
360

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Superior Aid|
9th|
400

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat|
9th|
450

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Masterful Attacks|
9th|
500[/table]

Looking up at your original suggestion, you are missing a table here. Unless you expect fighters to memorize a table of 20+ sources of Victory rewards (which would make this the most difficult class to take tabulations with ever), you should probably list a number of victory rewards that a Fighter can reap VP from. Maybe 2 at 1st level and 1 more at 3rd level and every 3 levels afterwards (keeping track of even these 8 sources still makes playing this suggested fighter a huge headache but it's better than 20+).


Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): As Expert, you may choose any ten skills to be your class skills.

What? Why?
You said that you wanted this class to be versatile and powerful. I get that much. Why, then, does it need to stomp over martial classes AND skill monkeys? I know that the skill monkeys get more class skills but it's looking less like you're going for the best combat class and more like you're going for the best non-caster.
This is entirely unecessary.


Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons. All light, medium, and heavy armor. All shields (including Tower Shields).

No problems.


Strategies: Fighters utilize large scale war techniques adapted to the microcosm that is the life of an adventurer. With these Strategies he is able to gain an advantage in combat encounters, overcome obstacles, and navigate social intrigues. Etc... (mechanics and fluff still need to be fully worked out).

Commenting on the class is going to be a bit hard without knowing the central mechanics but I think that I can work out most of the mechanics. It seems that you get access to all strategies of up to the given level and use VRs (which are hopefully gained in number over levels and not all at once) to gain VPs. The VPs, in turn, are spent to use strategies.
Even if I didn't his the nail on the head right there (you might have intended for fighters to get one strategy per level or even per level of strategy), this strategy is pretty darn complicated (as this is like psionics if you needed to keep track of 8+ sources that were giving you power points every now and then :smallannoyed:).
In addition, the text about overcoming obstacles and navigating social intrigues (Etc) is very very troubling. It makes me think that you have totally turned the fighter from a literal fighter to "the mundane dude who can be built to do absolutely anything so long as it's mundane." Why are you even still calling it the fighter at this point and why would we need such a class?


Bonus Feats: At 1st level and every odd level thereafter Fighters gain a bonus feat chosen from the list of Fighter Feats.

Ok.


Martial Focus (Ex): As a swift or immediate action a Fighter may take 10 on a single attack roll, opposed roll, or saving throw against any creature he has attacked or targeted with a spell or ability on his previous turn. At 5th level he may take 15 with this swift or immediate action, and may once per round, without spending any action, even if it isn't his turn, take 10 against such a creature. At 10th level he may take 20 with this swift or immediate action. At 15th level he may take 10 in this way any number of times in a round.

I've created somewhat abilities in the past so I can't totally wreak this ability without being somewhat hypothetical. :smalltongue:
What I can say, however, is that one of the classes was a comically overpowered joke-class (with daily limits!) and that the other relied on giving bonuses rather than altering the dice roll, meaning that there was still a chance of natural 1s and that there were no natural 20s giving automatic hits.
You started out with a level 18 feat and worked UPWARDS from there. I will admit that you put on the limiting factor of having fought the creature within the previous round. Unfortunately, this is soon made to count for very little as your huge threatened area makes it very easy to hit any foe you wanted to switch to with an AoO whenever they move (especially if playing in traditional 20x20 foot dungeon rooms).


Expert Aid (Ex): A 2nd level Fighter may take 10 on Aid Another attempts (PHB 154), may make them from any distance as long as he has line of sight to both the friend and the friend's opponent, and finally may make them as a move action instead of, or in addition to, a standard action.

I'll give this ability this much credit. I like how it starts out as a supplement to your attack and 5-foot step and kind of falls by the way-side as you gain levels. That said, if this were a balanced class, this ability would have uses per day (say, take 10 1/day/level with move action aid anothers at will). Giving allies +2 to everything they do forever starting at 2nd level, while not completely broken, isn't exactly balanced either. Also, this ability kind of cements this guy into the "de facto battlefield leader" which you explicitely stated earlier that you weren't trying to do.
I have no problem with a good battlefield leader fighter, mind you, but putting the ability right here kind of messes with the many, many other interpretations of fighter that exist out there. In fact, the very concept of VRs and VPs kind of squashes many of those concepts on the spot.


Advanced Attacks (Ex): A 4th level Fighter may make a single Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Sunder, or Trip attempt as a free action against any foe he hits with a melee attack. He doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for making a ranged attack while threatened.

Level 4 seems a bit early to be getting so many bonuses. Consider that you're pretty much giving the fighter 7 feats right there (though you don't grant +4 bonuses, you allow them to be made without additional actions, which is more than worth it).
You also need to specify if the fighter moves along with the target when he makes the bull rush (and he shouldn't as doing so would be giving the fighter an extra "move action" at 4th level, obliterating action economy).


Improved Delay (Ex): A 6th level Fighter may delay his action (see Delay, PHB 160) in one round without changing his Initiative in the next round. Additionally, when he delays in this way he may interrupt another creature's actions as though he had readied an action to do so (though he need not specify the intention to do so beforehand).

No. No. Nonononono. A thousand times no. This ability is effectively granting greater celerity (at 6th level spell and one of the most broken spells to ever exist.) to the fighter, at will, at LEVEL 6!!!! On the one hand, this ability "stuns" you before you take your extra action and it's not possible to simply gain immunity. On the other hand, it takes absolutely no action to use this ability.


Foil Action (Ex): An 8th level Fighter's threatened area is increased by 10ft for the purposes of making attacks of opportunity. Further, whenever a creature's action provokes an attack of opportunity from the Fighter, the Fighter's attack of opportunity interrupts that action as though he had readied an action to attack that creature. If the attack of opportunity hits the creature's action fails.

First of all, how is the fighter's reach effectively extended by 10 feet without him actually moving? That doesn't seem to make much sense, especially for a supposedly mundane class. My fighter from awhile back did some wonky stuff as well but I at least tried to explain it (and only extended reach by 5 feet).

Also, what does the last ability actually do? Most casters are going to be casting defensively so there aren't any AoO in the first place. If you attack someone who's moving, are you supposed to send them back to where they started their movement (thus having "failed" to move and retroactively attacking them with your sword from even further away) or just halt them where they stand (which the current rules don't state).

Furthermore, what about prone foes? Can this ability make a prone enemy "fail" to stand up? If it does, this ability is utterly broken as pretty much everything prone folks due provokes AoOs and knocking an opponent down would pretty much end the encounter.

In short, if this ability was meant to halt or reset movement, this ability is broken (as nobody can ever escape your threatened range, especially if you have combat reflexes).
If this ability can stop prone people from getting up (and doing anything else), this ability is also broken.
If this ability does neither of these things, it's... actually pretty balanced (stopping ranged attacks but not much else).



Timely Aid (Ex): A 10th level Fighter's Aid Another attempts grant a +5 bonus to attack rolls or AC or to his friend's next saving throw, and he may make Aid Another attempts as swift or immediate actions instead of, or in addition to, move actions or standard actions. Additionally, if the friend's next attack or save succeeds, or the friend's opponent's next attack fails, the Fighter gains an additional Standard Action during his next turn. The Fighter may not gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Seems I was wrong when I thought aid another would softly disappear into the night. At level 10, the ability to give +5 bonuses with Aid another, the ability to make 3 a round instead of 2, and even the ability to add the bonus to saving throws doesn't seem that overpowered. It's about on par with what a somewhat optimized buffer would be doing for the party.
Of course, the ability doesn't end there. Instead, it needs to destroy the action economy even further. possibly trading a swift action for a standard acton each round (plus the +5 bonus for your ally, of course).
For perspective, the belt of battle is a 13th level item (according to the MIC) and is considered one of the better items in existance for just a couple uses each day. You grant something comparable to that incredible item 3 levels earlier and at will. This seems wrong to me.
Also, just to reiterate, this ability once again pigeonholes the fighter into a battlefield commander role.


Innovative Attacks (Ex): A 12th level Fighter may use any of the following skills once as part of a single melee attack - Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Sleight of Hand, Swim, or Tumble. He may use any of the following skills once as part of a single ranged attack - Balance, Concentration, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, or Spot.

This is the most balanced ability in the entire class.
It is balanced because it makes absolutely no sense. At all.

How on earth are you supposed to use escape artist as a melee attack? I know that these are supposed to be innovative attacks but do you really expect the players and DMs to come up with the effect at the table? If so, this ability is at the verge of simple free-form roleplaying.


Improved Foil Action (Ex): A 14th level Fighter's threatened area is increased by an additional 20ft (total 30ft)for the purposes of making attacks of opportunity. Further, whenever the Fighter causes a creature's action to fail through his Foil Action ability that action can't be used by that creature for 5 rounds.

First of all, the total reach is 25 feet as you can't randomly assume that the fighter does or doesn't have a reach weapon. Secondly, how on earth are you cutting people from 25 feet away? If you were JUST stopping their action, that might make some sense (and even then it would be a stretch) but you seem to be damaging them as well. This is the one class in existance that should never have to say "a wizard did it". Seriously. Give me some explanation here.
Apart from that small issue, this ability... might be broken beyond all belief. As I've said, it all depends on whether this guy affects movement or not. If so, this guy can automatically immobilize enemies in place for 5 rounds, likely while outside of their threat range. Also, this aspect of the ability makes even less sense than the extreme reach part. How could you, for example, stop a creature from making ranged attacks or drinking potions for 5 rounds?

So we have a human who somehow manages to swipe at foes 25 feet, damaging them with the air current and somehow stopping every possible combination of muscle movement that would result in this guy drinking a potion... but only for the next 30 seconds. I'm sorry but this sounds more magical than most magic.


Greater Delay (Ex): Whenever a 16th level or higher Fighter interrupts another creature's actions with his Improved Delay feature the Fighter may choose to have that creature delay its action until the end of the round. If the creature would normally be the last to act this feature has no additional effect.

This ability is... perfectly balanced. It works. It just presses the monsters back to the end of the round and lets your party members act. I like it.

Instead, the broken stuff occured one level ago, at level 15. Let's review what this guy is doing:
The fifteenth level fighter spends each round delaying. When they finally act, they interrupt another foe, taking a five foot step (free action) before making a full attack, the first three of which are natural 10s and the last attack of which automatically hits as it's an automatic 20 (immediate and full-round), initiating a special maneuver (grapple, bull rush, etc.) with each successful attack and giving somebody a +5 bonus while he's at it (extra standard).

All in all, this level 15 fighter is using the equivalent of 9th level maneuvers every single round. Keep in mind that I'm not even taking Strategies into account. This class is already the most broken non-magical class in existence without the aid of feats (which it gets 10 of), magic items, Prestige classes (which would, if anything, weaken this class), or even its primary class feature!!!


Superior Aid (Ex): An 18th level Fighter's Aid Another attempts grant a +10 bonus to attack rolls or AC or saving throws. If the friend's attack or save succeeds, or if the friend's opponent's next attack fails, the friend gains an additional Standard Action during his or her next turn. No creature may gain more than one extra standard action in this way.

Really? Really? Good lord.
It seems that this class wasn't done breaking the action economy over it's knees. Instead, you can lay back and give everybody else on your team not only a +10 bonus but an extra standard action.
I wish that I could say that nothing by level 18 could ever be broken but this is broken. Even if the rest of your party is throwing wishes, YOU ARE DOUBLING THE WISH OUTPUT!!! If they aren't throwing wishes and miracles around, this guy will continue giving only one guy this bonus if only because it lets him trade his move action for another standard action.
BROKEN!


Masterful Attacks (Ex): A 20th level Fighter's melee attacks ignore Damage Reduction and Hardness. Additionally he ignores invisibility, cover, concealment, incorporeality, or etherealness with any attacks he makes.

And the capstone ability... isn't half bad. It makes no sense, mind you, which is a very big deal for a class that has always been the perfectly mundane assailant, but it isn't overpowered.

Final Analysis:
Though you seem to have mistaken what the tier system represents, this class definitely can fight on fairly even terms against (highly optimized) tier 2 classes.
Unfortunately, this class has a number of faults, listed below.
1. There is absolutely no reverse scalability in this class and the only restraint that I see here is that you failed to add mage-slayer and combat reflexes as automatic class features.
2. It breaks the action economy wide open and makes it utterly pointless to play anything else other than this, a caster, or an erudite. Seeing as the strategies will need to be either be incredibly versatile or incredibly powerful just to warrant using them, I feel quite confident saying this.
3. Though you did give us fair warning in the opening fluff, this is an extremely complicated class. Even putting the magic system aside, I only understand how it works because I'm pretty familiar with the rules. Instead of handing us a class and telling us that you can play it better with experience, you have handed us a better class and told us that only the experienced can play it. Why?

[Ziegander]

A preface: I think that I might've gotten a wee bit heated in the text below. Please know that while I hate this specific class with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns, I have nothing against you as a person or as a homebrewer. :smalltongue:

lol, nah you just seemed passionate, which is good if anything. I wasn't offended by anything you said.


You have not followed this guid of what a tier is. More than any other class I've ever seen (even ToB classes), this class optimizes itself automatically... completely. Even if you choose your 10 feets terribly, choose the wrong skills, and choose awful armor and weaponry, this class still ends at "tier 2 power". This guy is completely worthless for every game except for tier 2+ (tier 2- :smallconfused:?) campaigns, which in actuality make up something like 20% of campaigns out there.

This is a fair assessment, and possibly a good point (I'm not sure yet, but I'm not dismissing it out of hand). More than any class I've ever designed I'm unsure about his power level, and usually I'm good at simply reading class features and gauging how it will work in gameplay. If it's bottom line is Tier 2, even before using victory points and strategies than I've made a grave error and I'll need to rein things in, but I'm not sure this is true.


If you want a tier 2 class, put stress on options. Make sure that there are enough feats available and proper ability menus that a properly optimized fighter could function as tier 2 and less optimized ones can function in weaker campaigns. If you want, start with this class as a base and devolve it so that the same results can be reached by level 20 with the proper selection of resources. Otherwise, you've only "fixed" the class for 1 in 5 games.

Duly noted.



Looking up at your original suggestion, you are missing a table here. Unless you expect fighters to memorize a table of 20+ sources of Victory rewards (which would make this the most difficult class to take tabulations with ever), you should probably list a number of victory rewards that a Fighter can reap VP from. Maybe 2 at 1st level and 1 more at 3rd level and every 3 levels afterwards (keeping track of even these 8 sources still makes playing this suggested fighter a huge headache but it's better than 20+).

I doubt it's any harder than keeping track of all the special rules spellcasters need to know (y'know, the whole 11 pages of the Magic chapter). It is supposed to be able to earn victory points from ALL of the various rewards, however there won't be 20+ rewards, more like... 12 or so the way things look.


What? Why?
You said that you wanted this class to be versatile and powerful. I get that much. Why, then, does it need to stomp over martial classes AND skill monkeys? I know that the skill monkeys get more class skills but it's looking less like you're going for the best combat class and more like you're going for the best non-caster.
This is entirely unecessary.

I'm sorry, but how does giving it Expert skills stomp all over martial classes and skill monkeys? Rangers have gotten basically this from day one 3.0 and no one complains. The reason for it is because there really is a combat/war use for any skill you can think of. Disable Device for wrecking siege machines, Move Silently for ambush and flanking parties, Diplomacy for creating terms of surrender, Knowledges so you can know what you're fighting against, etc, etc.


Commenting on the class is going to be a bit hard without knowing the central mechanics but I think that I can work out most of the mechanics. It seems that you get access to all strategies of up to the given level and use VRs (which are hopefully gained in number over levels and not all at once) to gain VPs. The VPs, in turn, are spent to use strategies.

Actually, not entirely correct. The Fighter will have all of the various victory awards available to earn VPs from, but he will only know a limited number of strategies, which he will learn as he gains levels. My goal is to offer a prodigious number of options for strategies of each level. The Fighter will only know a few of these, but will be able to use them spontaneously and as situations dictate.


Even if I didn't his the nail on the head right there (you might have intended for fighters to get one strategy per level or even per level of strategy), this strategy is pretty darn complicated (as this is like psionics if you needed to keep track of 8+ sources that were giving you power points every now and then :smallannoyed:).

Yes, it's somewhat more complicated than psionics, but it rewards players for tactical gameplay and adds a noncombat role to the Fighter class, both of which I think make it very worthwhile and fun.


In addition, the text about overcoming obstacles and navigating social intrigues (Etc) is very very troubling. It makes me think that you have totally turned the fighter from a literal fighter to "the mundane dude who can be built to do absolutely anything so long as it's mundane."

Well, actually, that kind of is my goal, I suppose. But see, it is my belief that ALL classes should have some ability to overcome adventuring obstacles or to deal with "social encounters." The fact that the Barbarian can do neither is a shortcoming of that class, not a problem with this one. In my opinion.


Why are you even still calling it the fighter at this point and why would we need such a class?

You've questioned why I continued to call a remade Ranger by the name Ranger, even though I've completely changed the class, but you've done the same thing yourself with the Fighter class. Also, remember, the Fighter class will be capable of virtually any mundane feat, however an individual Fighter character will only be proficient in a limited subset of mundane badassery. Why am I still calling it the Fighter? Because it's primary function is still to fight stuff, and it's casting system is fueled by fighting things with cleverness and tactics. Why would I call it something else?


You started out with a level 18 feat and worked UPWARDS from there. I will admit that you put on the limiting factor of having fought the creature within the previous round.

You really should also admit that said level 18 feat is really, really weak.


Unfortunately, this is soon made to count for very little as your huge threatened area makes it very easy to hit any foe you wanted to switch to with an AoO whenever they move (especially if playing in traditional 20x20 foot dungeon rooms).

Don't worry, I'm not sure I like his Foil Action abilities anyway. The concept, sure, but the execution I'm still worried about.


Giving allies +2 to everything they do forever starting at 2nd level, while not completely broken, isn't exactly balanced either.

Hold on, it's not +2 to everything forever. It's not even close to that. If you spend a move action, you can give ONE ally a +2 bonus to ONE attack or against ONE attack.


Also, this ability kind of cements this guy into the "de facto battlefield leader" which you explicitely stated earlier that you weren't trying to do.
I have no problem with a good battlefield leader fighter, mind you, but putting the ability right here kind of messes with the many, many other interpretations of fighter that exist out there. In fact, the very concept of VRs and VPs kind of squashes many of those concepts on the spot.

YMMV. I don't think it "forces" the leader role on anybody. And even playing a Fighter who makes liberal use of this feature doesn't have to be the "leader" of the party. It's just the Fighter giving his allies tips on technique or on flaws in their foes' technique, which makes sense if the Fighter is supposed to be more knowledgeable than his allies on the subject. It isn't giving orders or making his allies dependent on him or anything.


Level 4 seems a bit early to be getting so many bonuses. Consider that you're pretty much giving the fighter 7 feats right there (though you don't grant +4 bonuses, you allow them to be made without additional actions, which is more than worth it).
You also need to specify if the fighter moves along with the target when he makes the bull rush (and he shouldn't as doing so would be giving the fighter an extra "move action" at 4th level, obliterating action economy).

You really give the action economy too much credit, to be honest, but that's a good point about Bull Rush.


No. No. Nonononono. A thousand times no. This ability is effectively granting greater celerity (at 6th level spell and one of the most broken spells to ever exist.) to the fighter, at will, at LEVEL 6!!!! On the one hand, this ability "stuns" you before you take your extra action and it's not possible to simply gain immunity. On the other hand, it takes absolutely no action to use this ability.

And you have succeeded in kneejerk reacting and utterly blowing this class feature out of proportion. As you said yourself, compared with any of the celerity line you are effectively stunned before you take your action and there's no immunity. Also, YOU CAN'T USE IT LIKE CELERITY. You are waiting until your opponent acts and then acting. Celerity on the other hand is broken because you use it BEFORE your opponent acts and because the drawback is very easily surmountable. Celerity grants extra actions that you use before your opponent even thinks about acting. Improved Delay doesn't grant extra actions and you have to wait until your opponent acts to use it. Basically, it's completely the opposite of the uberbrokeness you're making it out to be. :smallconfused:


First of all, how is the fighter's reach effectively extended by 10 feet without him actually moving? That doesn't seem to make much sense, especially for a supposedly mundane class. My fighter from awhile back did some wonky stuff as well but I at least tried to explain it (and only extended reach by 5 feet).

This is why I don't really like these features. That don't especially make sense unless you really reach to explain them, at which point... it's silly. So I agree with you; however, I do think the Fighter ought to be able to do this, I just have to come with something that continues to make sense when you think about it as more than a game mechanic.


Also, what does the last ability actually do? Most casters are going to be casting defensively so there aren't any AoO in the first place. If you attack someone who's moving, are you supposed to send them back to where they started their movement (thus having "failed" to move and retroactively attacking them with your sword from even further away) or just halt them where they stand (which the current rules don't state).

You cause their action to fail. If they were casting a spell it's wasted. If they moved through one of your threatened squares, they instead don't. You don't ruin the entire movement, just the part of it that provoked your AoO.


Furthermore, what about prone foes? Can this ability make a prone enemy "fail" to stand up? If it does, this ability is utterly broken as pretty much everything prone folks due provokes AoOs and knocking an opponent down would pretty much end the encounter.

Except that there are plenty of ways to stand without provoking, and that you actually have to succeed at first knocking them down, and second at hitting them to prevent them from standing up. But yes, it can cause them to fail to stand.


In short, if this ability was meant to halt or reset movement, this ability is broken (as nobody can ever escape your threatened range, especially if you have combat reflexes).

Nobody can escape your threatened range? Because you can't miss? Because teleportation isn't widely prevalent?




Of course, the ability doesn't end there. Instead, it needs to destroy the action economy even further. possibly trading a swift action for a standard acton each round (plus the +5 bonus for your ally, of course).

Again, you value the action economy more than necessary. The Fighter is still limited by only having so much he can do with this extra standard action. Even with his strategies he can't nova like a Wizard or especially a Sorcerer can, and he's definitely not Polymorphing, Evard's Black Tentacling, Cloudkilling, Major Creationing, or Dominate Personing with his extra action. The Factotum gets the ability to take a few extra standard actions every encounter at 8th level, and he has Wizard spells to boot, and his extra actions are guaranteed. The Fighter gets an extra action only if his aid actually worked for his ally, and that's much more of a limitation than you're making it sound.


How on earth are you supposed to use escape artist as a melee attack? I know that these are supposed to be innovative attacks but do you really expect the players and DMs to come up with the effect at the table? If so, this ability is at the verge of simple free-form roleplaying.

I actually picked only the skills that make sense, so maybe you're just thinking about it wrong, or interpreting it wrongly or something. You're not using escape artist as a melee attack, you're making an escape artist attempt at the same time as a melee attack. You know how Jump or Tumble are used as part of a movement action? This is extending that same principle to a few skills for attack rolls. I hope that makes more sense.


Apart from that small issue, this ability... might be broken beyond all belief. As I've said, it all depends on whether this guy affects movement or not. If so, this guy can automatically immobilize enemies in place for 5 rounds, likely while outside of their threat range. Also, this aspect of the ability makes even less sense than the extreme reach part. How could you, for example, stop a creature from making ranged attacks or drinking potions for 5 rounds?

How is that at all broken? A Wizard can paralyze people from 130ft away for 3 rounds at 3rd level. If an enemy moves through his threatened area, and if the Fighter hits with an attack of opportunity he can make them not move for 5 rounds and he has to wait until 14th level for this chance. It may not make the most sense in the world, but mechanically I don't see how you can call this broken beyond belief.


The fifteenth level fighter spends each round delaying. When they finally act, they interrupt another foe, taking a five foot step (free action) before making a full attack, the first three of which are natural 10s and the last attack of which automatically hits as it's an automatic 20 (immediate and full-round), initiating a special maneuver (grapple, bull rush, etc.) with each successful attack and giving somebody a +5 bonus while he's at it (extra standard).

And you think this is too powerful for a 15th level character to be able to do? I fail to see why... Also, again, he's not guaranteed to be getting this extra standard action like you assume he is. At all.


All in all, this level 15 fighter is using the equivalent of 9th level maneuvers every single round.

What are you talking about? Making a full attack and giving ONE ally a +5 bonus to ONE attack is considered the equivalent of a 9th level maneuver now?


Keep in mind that I'm not even taking Strategies into account. This class is already the most broken non-magical class in existence without the aid of feats (which it gets 10 of), magic items, Prestige classes (which would, if anything, weaken this class), or even its primary class feature!!!

Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.


Really? Really? Good lord.
It seems that this class wasn't done breaking the action economy over it's knees. Instead, you can lay back and give everybody else on your team not only a +10 bonus but an extra standard action.

The +10 bonus and the extra standard action is probably over the top too powerful. I'll probably level the bonus back to +5. Then, if he wants, he can spend his full turn giving the rest of his party +5 bonuses and a possible extra action.


And the capstone ability... isn't half bad. It makes no sense, mind you, which is a very big deal for a class that has always been the perfectly mundane assailant, but it isn't overpowered.

By 20th level he's been around long enough to know how to deal with these problems. It makes sense to me and doesn't have to be magical or supernatural. He's just a 20th level Fighter. He really is that good.


Though you seem to have mistaken what the tier system represents, this class definitely can fight on fairly even terms against (highly optimized) tier 2 classes.

I haven't mistaken what the tier system means. I don't, for instance, believe that all Sorcerers regardless of spell selection are Tier 2 powerhouses that break the game. Note that I said my goal was to make a Fighter class that could compete with a strong Sorcerer. I'm glad you think I've succeeded on that front (at least mechanically).


Unfortunately, this class has a number of faults, listed below.
1. There is absolutely no reverse scalability in this class and the only restraint that I see here is that you failed to add mage-slayer and combat reflexes as automatic class features.

I'm not sure what you mean by "reverse scalability."


2. It breaks the action economy wide open and makes it utterly pointless to play anything else other than this, a caster, or an erudite. Seeing as the strategies will need to be either be incredibly versatile or incredibly powerful just to warrant using them, I feel quite confident saying this.

Breaking the action economy =/= breaking the game. Does this make it pointless to play anything other than a Tier 2 or higher class? Maybe. If so, I may have gone overboard. However, I'm really not sure that's true. It might be more prudent to make the baseline power level of this class (before strategy and feat selection) somewhere more in the Tier 3 range, however I suppose that would necessitate some really powerful strategies (possibly more powerful than I was planning, we'll see though, I've only barely dipped into 2nd level strats).


3. Though you did give us fair warning in the opening fluff, this is an extremely complicated class. Even putting the magic system aside, I only understand how it works because I'm pretty familiar with the rules. Instead of handing us a class and telling us that you can play it better with experience, you have handed us a better class and told us that only the experienced can play it. Why?

You don't have to be experienced, you just have to do your homework so you know what you're doing. The "casting" system isn't even as complicated as a normal spellcaster's is, and as long as you read up on the more "expert" rules that the class references and pagemarks for you you'll be alright. It's just not for a beginner who wants to pick up a class and play without learning any more than the basics.

Finally, though thanks for taking the time to give this a thorough and honest evaluation. I know it's a lot to go through. Thanks a bundle!

[Fail]

I'm not sure what you mean by "reverse scalability."He means "the class has to be able to suck, such that it fits in a group with a monk, soulknife, a divine mind and a dragon shaman". About which I advise people to just sandbag a lot.

As for the foils, you can have an ability where you, as an immediate, can move and attack + cancel opponent action, and return to previous position if desired. Glue whatever use limit you think balanced on it.

[Ziegander]

He means "the class has to be able to suck, such that it fits in a group with a monk, soulknife, a divine mind and a dragon shaman". About which I advise people to just sandbag a lot.

Ah, okay, that makes sense for what he was saying. I'll be attempting to lower the power level, but I can promise it won't ever go so low that it doesn't overshadow a soulknife or divine mind.


As for the foils, you can have an ability where you, as an immediate, can move and attack + cancel opponent action, and return to previous position if desired. Glue whatever use limit you think balanced on it.

I'm thinking now that I'll do something similar to this and just make Foil Action and it's improvement Strategies (probably 4th and 7th level ones respectively). I'll just replace them in the class table with Tremorsense and something.

[Ziegander]

Made the changes to the Foil Action abilities. Replaced them with Tremorsense and Through the Haze. Weakened the Superior Aid ability. Added a few 2nd and 3rd level Strategies.

EDIT: Also, gave it a real skill list.

I'm considering allowing 4th level and higher Strategies to do "beyond Extraordinary" level things in the realm of Charles Atlas Superpowers type stuff, but I'm not sure yet. You may have heard that the real world has never seen characters beyond 5th level, so by that reasoning a 7th level Fighter would be capable of things no mortal man has ever done. Just something for me (and anyone who is interested) to think about.

[Ziegander]

Right now, I believe, that this class is sitting at a base level of power and versatility that is a bit lower than a Warblade's, before any optimization. Which I think is right where it should be.

That being said, I could really use second, third, and fourth opinions on this guy. I humbly request additional feedback and will be most grateful to anyone who takes a look at this! :smallredface:

EDIT: Added the class table and features descriptions to the first post.

[Realms of Chaos]

OK, more concise/constructive comments:

Skill List: As you've pointed out in the past, just about every skill in existence has some kind of war application. That said, does a given fighter really need them all at a given time? It seems a tad unlikely that a single soldier would be trained in every element of war at the same time. Why not give the fighter a selection of 6-10 "core fighter skills" and allow them to choose 2 or 4 more skills of their choice?

Also, when I accused this guy of stomping on skill monkeys, I was more referring to the number of skill points than the customizability. The cap for armored fighting classes seems to be 4 + Int modifier and that seems like a sufficient amount to getting around in day-to-day adventuring (especially as you also have strategies to help you out in certain situations as well) unless you wanted to make the class particularly skill-ish. As, once again, a single soldier is unlikely to be schooled in EVERY aspect of warfare, would lowering the skill points by 2 be out of the pictures?

In addition, the presence of UMD is a bit troublesome. You say that breaking the action economy is only broken when it comes to casters with their spells so why are you giving the the one skill that lets them emulate this broken-ness? I know that the full tippy-verse madness of having a few dozen contingent effects on your person and using celerity to teleport before things happen isn't possible for this fighter but the examples that you gave earlier (such as evard's black tentacles, web, polymorph, etc.) most certainly are. If you take my advice and cut back to core skills + chosen skill, I would include this in the latter category. Alternately, I'd state that the extra actions gained through your aid another abilities could not be used to cast spells or activate magic items (which would make enough sense if you're only getting them in the first place due to the adrenaline of combat).

Martial Focus: Although weapon supremacy is pretty weak at 18th level, I'd argue that Aura of Perfect Order (a stance available at 11th level) is completely balanced. :smallamused:
Although martial focus is restricted to battle, can't help some skill checks, and is generally limited to only one or two foes at a time, this doesn't seem to justify pushing down the ability a full 10 levels. How about making the ability grow over time, starting weaker but ending up potentially stronger if you stay with the class. For example:

Martial Focus (Ex): Once per round, you may treat the result of a single attack roll, opposed roll, or saving throw against any creature he has attacked or targeted with a spell or ability on within the past roll as being 5 + your class level (maximum 20). A result of a natural 20 in this way does not count as an automatic success (though it may threaten a critical hit). For every 5 class levels that you possess, you may use this ability an additional time per round.

There. The ability starts off weak enough to not overpower a single level dip into this class, allows it to grow more organically as you gain levels, and exchanges your unlimited 10s and auto-successes for freed up swift/immediate actions and more 20s per round.

Expert Aid: Don't forget that aid another can be used on skill checks as well. As such, this guy pretty much does give +2 bonuses forever. Not to everyone at the same time, mind you (making it less useful for sneaking around), but still relevant and pretty powerful for level 2.

Tremorsense/Through the Haze: These abilities... don't really make much sense. The first one works for a couple of fighter designs (such as a blind swordsman or a scout) but seems really out of place just about everywhere else unless you have some sort of special explanation for it.
Through the Haze, however, doesn't really make much sense to me at all. The only possible reasoning that I could think of is to picture a grizzled general who knows illusions on sight because he's "already seen it all". Why not replace Tremorsense with Mettle and Through the Haze with the slightly more realistic ability such as a toned-down mindblank to grant immunity to all mind-affecting effects (except those that you desire to affect you). It would make a tad more sense, no? :smallwink:

Innovative Attacks: Though the ability is mostly clear to me now, there are two things that should probably be spelled out.
1. Can you only use one of those skills in combination with a single attack (I think so but can't be certain)?
2. As it uses the words "a single melee attack", people may be confused as to whether you can use this ability with a full attack, making a skill check with each attack.

Superior Aid: Truth be told, I had more of a problem with the extra actions than with the huge bonuses. Unless you adapt my earlier advice to make the extra actions not applicable with magic, it may actually be more balanced to stick with just the huge bonuses.
Again, you claimed that action economy is only important to spellcasters and this action gives more actions to casters. I know that the action isn't guaranteed but it still seems a bit racey (even if it's only granting a free casting of an orb spell each round).

Edit: As for strategies and superpowers... I'd support anything that you could hypothetically explain on a fully physiological level. As such, stuff like fast healing, shrugging off certain effects, or shattering walls with one strike are okay in my books but I'd frown upon actual uses of magic such as dispelling items, flying, "seeing" magic, teleporting long distances, etc. After all, a large part of the draw towards being a fighter is the knowledge that you are a completely mundane dude fighting agaist or alongside wizards and dragons. Simply turning around and saying "strong normal = magic" would probably end up alienating a whole bunch of people.
Then again, it's your class and you're free to do whatever you want with it.

[Ziegander]

OK, more concise/constructive comments:

Skill List: As you've pointed out in the past, just about every skill in existence has some kind of war application. That said, does a given fighter really need them all at a given time? It seems a tad unlikely that a single soldier would be trained in every element of war at the same time. Why not give the fighter a selection of 6-10 "core fighter skills" and allow them to choose 2 or 4 more skills of their choice?

I feel like that argument could be applied to the Rogue as well. It seems unlikely that a given streetrat would be trained in every element of acrobat/thief/trapmonkey/deception at the same time. And yet they are. The idea being that the Rogue class should be accommodating to as many different Rogue character builds as possible. I do think that a Fighter ought to be more skilled than a Barbarian or a Warblade, yes. That's solidly just my opinion, and most definitely influenced by the way I'm envisioning them for this specific class rewrite, but I'm sticking to it.


In addition, the presence of UMD is a bit troublesome. You say that breaking the action economy is only broken when it comes to casters with their spells so why are you giving the the one skill that lets them emulate this broken-ness? I know that the full tippy-verse madness of having a few dozen contingent effects on your person and using celerity to teleport before things happen isn't possible for this fighter but the examples that you gave earlier (such as evard's black tentacles, web, polymorph, etc.) most certainly are. If you take my advice and cut back to core skills + chosen skill, I would include this in the latter category. Alternately, I'd state that the extra actions gained through your aid another abilities could not be used to cast spells or activate magic items (which would make enough sense if you're only getting them in the first place due to the adrenaline of combat).

I agree that it is troublesome, possibly troublesome enough for me to remove it from the list entirely. I wish it weren't so silly easy to just outrageously wield magic with UMD as it is, but there's nothing I can do about it. It'd be nice if the Fighter could commandeer his enemies' magical devices and use them against them, but if I give him that capability I open up a can of worms of UMD optimization that allows him to spit spells like candy via wands and scrolls and economy exploits which is lame and not the spirit of my intention.


Martial Focus: Although weapon supremacy is pretty weak at 18th level, I'd argue that Aura of Perfect Order (a stance available at 11th level) is completely balanced. :smallamused:
Although martial focus is restricted to battle, can't help some skill checks, and is generally limited to only one or two foes at a time, this doesn't seem to justify pushing down the ability a full 10 levels. How about making the ability grow over time, starting weaker but ending up potentially stronger if you stay with the class. For example:

You make a good point there. :smallfrown:


Martial Focus (Ex): Once per round, you may treat the result of a single attack roll, opposed roll, or saving throw against any creature he has attacked or targeted with a spell or ability on within the past roll as being 5 + your class level (maximum 20). A result of a natural 20 in this way does not count as an automatic success (though it may threaten a critical hit). For every 5 class levels that you possess, you may use this ability an additional time per round.

While I would never go with this write up (it's pointless until 5th level to ever use the ability, and therefor you might as well not get it until 5th level) you still make a fine point. I'll be considering alternatives to Martial Focus. I went with something radical, and I suppose it probably didn't pay off.


Expert Aid: Don't forget that aid another can be used on skill checks as well. As such, this guy pretty much does give +2 bonuses forever. Not to everyone at the same time, mind you (making it less useful for sneaking around), but still relevant and pretty powerful for level 2.

Now this is an excellent point, and I'll make sure to edit it and the other Aid abilities so that they can only be used during a combat encounter.


Tremorsense/Through the Haze: These abilities... don't really make much sense. The first one works for a couple of fighter designs (such as a blind swordsman or a scout) but seems really out of place just about everywhere else unless you have some sort of special explanation for it.
Through the Haze, however, doesn't really make much sense to me at all. The only possible reasoning that I could think of is to picture a grizzled general who knows illusions on sight because he's "already seen it all". Why not replace Tremorsense with Mettle and Through the Haze with the slightly more realistic ability such as a toned-down mindblank to grant immunity to all mind-affecting effects (except those that you desire to affect you). It would make a tad more sense, no? :smallwink:

They make fine sense to me, but in a way I can "feel" which isn't easily communicated, although I'll try anyway.

For a guy that's been fighting all his life, combat is a delicate dance of movement and positioning. So early in his career he focuses on reading the body language of his foes, but it follows logically that he would start to pick up a knack for reading the very earth itself - he is constantly jockeying for superior positioning, making the feel of the earth beneath his feet very important to him. I don't feel like I've done a spectacular job at explaining my thought process, but that's the best I've got right now.

As for Through the Haze, you made a fine argument for it yourself. What's wrong with the "grizzled veteran that's able to see through illusions" explanation? More than that though, he's a 13th level Fighter and it only applies to foes he is actively paying close attention to (ones he's hitting with attacks or that are hitting him with attacks). I think of it as an incredibly heightened survival instinct.


Innovative Attacks: Though the ability is mostly clear to me now, there are two things that should probably be spelled out.
1. Can you only use one of those skills in combination with a single attack (I think so but can't be certain)?
2. As it uses the words "a single melee attack", people may be confused as to whether you can use this ability with a full attack, making a skill check with each attack.

You're right those could be cleared up. In short, the answers are 1) Yes; and 2) You can full attack with them, and you can use the same skill with each attack in a full attack, or different ones if you desire. I'll work on it.


Superior Aid: Truth be told, I had more of a problem with the extra actions than with the huge bonuses. Unless you adapt my earlier advice to make the extra actions not applicable with magic, it may actually be more balanced to stick with just the huge bonuses.
Again, you claimed that action economy is only important to spellcasters and this action gives more actions to casters. I know that the action isn't guaranteed but it still seems a bit racey (even if it's only granting a free casting of an orb spell each round).

Right, I get what you're saying, but lowering the bonus makes it less likely that the extra action will happen. I didn't mean to say that the action economy is only important to spellcasters, I just meant that spellcasters are the only ones that can really abuse getting extra actions.


Edit: As for strategies and superpowers... I'd support anything that you could hypothetically explain on a fully physiological level. As such, stuff like fast healing, shrugging off certain effects, or shattering walls with one strike are okay in my books but I'd frown upon actual uses of magic such as dispelling items, flying, "seeing" magic, teleporting long distances, etc. After all, a large part of the draw towards being a fighter is the knowledge that you are a completely mundane dude fighting agaist or alongside wizards and dragons. Simply turning around and saying "strong normal = magic" would probably end up alienating a whole bunch of people.
Then again, it's your class and you're free to do whatever you want with it.

I definitely agree with you here 100% (although I might consider stuff like dispelling buffs or items by hitting the subject really hard, but that's neither here nor there because I'm not even close to that stage yet).

One final parting question: What do you think of my assessment that the class is a bit below par to a Warblade given little to no optimization? I know that with average optimization or more this class will outperform the Warblade, but I think I've toned it done such that it sits in a lower echelon of Tier 3 before optimization comes in (and I still think it probably makes it to lower Tier 2 after optimization, which is good).

EDIT: Again, thanks a lot for your interest and honest critique. I've done a lot of Fighter rewrites in the past, but I think this has potential to be my favorite (among the ones I've written).

[Realms of Chaos]

Comparing this with the warblade... I'm pretty sure this guy wins.
While the warblade has a couple of really cheap abilities that he can choose *cough*ironheartsurge*cough*, this fighter, with a more balanced alternative to martial focus, seems to be about equal... before taking strategies into account.

Remember that the more supernatural disciplines of desert wind, devoted spirit, and shadow hand aren't available to warblades, leaving them with (for the most part) realistic techniques.
As your goal with this guy is to let his strategies cover the entire spectrum of the nonmagical and this guy gets FAR more strategies (even 9th level strategies) than a warblade gains maneuvers/stances, any fighter playing strategically enough to gain VP reliably (regardless of the character's optimization) would probably outdo the warblade.

[Ziegander]

Okay, so I wrote up a couple characters, one a Fighter 7 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=247091) and the other a Warblade 7 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=150998). Neither of them optimized at all, both of them designed as a generic melee brute.

In comparison, the Fighter has more ways to beat his foes up for sure, but the Warblade's maneuvers are able to be used much more often. The Fighter does have the edge in feats, and can use Improved Bull Rush in conjunction with any old melee attack, and is also able to use Three Mountains Style at will, which is pretty nice. While the Warblade is able to lay the smack down with Power Attack + Emerald Razor and Power Attack + Ruby Nightmare Blade, the Fighter can pull similar stunts with Power Attack + True Focus, and is able to truly incapacitate foes with Grisly Blow and Backbreaker.

All in all, they do appear to be fairly comparable. I think just for fun I'll run them through the Same Game test and see how they fair (probably on equal footing).