Okay, so I'm picky and need some help

[Kjata]

I am extremely picky when it comes to video games. I am not a hardcore video gamer, I'm way more into games like Magic and 40K. Anyway, I am lost at what to play next. I just keep playing FF7, 9, and Tactics because I can't find anything else.

I like video games that are hard enough to be engaging, but dont kick your ass to next tuesday repeatedly. I hate dying in video games. I'm playing to have fun, and dying every other battle isn't fun. For example, if you dont get the basics in FFT, you will die. If you do, you will die occasionally, mostly at key points. When you learn Knights are tough, and with two hands do a lot of damage, the game becomes a breeze.

I don't like voiceovers. Hate em. I never like the voices, EVER, except in FF13 where the cutscenes were the only good part in the whole game.

The main character needs a personality. I could't get into Persona 3 for this reason.

I prefer turn based rpgs. Tactical are great. Kingdom hearts is about the only acton rpg i really like, but the gameplay on that was AMAZING. Also like the Tales games I've played.

I would like the gameplay to story ratio to be roughly 3:1. Biggest problem with disgae was the story segments were like 2 hours apart.

Lastly, I like JRPGs. I like playing what is essentially an interactive movie. I want a story.

So, I have a PS2. I have a 360, but I hate every game I played for it Except tales of Vesperia, and am working on selling it.

I might get a PS3, if there are enough good games for it. But I'm aiming for ps2.

So, what do all you wonderful people recomend?

[Ranis]

Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are absolutely fantastic games by Mistwalker Studios that almost no one knows about. They are turn-based, they are HARD, and they both have amazing stories, especially Lost Odyssey. Check them out.

[Incomp]

I recommend having a more open mind. You're too picky. Seriously. Try other forms of games, you'll be pleasantly surprised sometimes when you find you like something you wouldn't think you would.

It's really difficult for me to recommend something for real that fits all these qualifiers: Challenging, no voiceovers (just about impossible to satisfy barring the mute button), main character has a personality, turn based, "gameplay to story ratio 3:1," and JRPG for a dying console. (PS2)

If you said, say, recommend some great tactical RPGs, I could do that no problem. But frankly, the above is ridiculous.

[Drascin]

It's a conundrum, because the first and the second parts of your post point at features that are usually located in completely different styles of games - most heavily story-driven games aren't all that hard, because people are playing them to know what's next, not for the challenge. And in those RPGs driven by gameplay, the plot is usually either there for fun or simply to move things forward. There are almost no games, if any, that fulfill all your requirements at the same time, especially the more specific ones.

Because of this, for the gameplay bit I'd say you want Etrian Odyssey - very hard at the beginning, while you're learning the ropes and getting your jobs leveled up. Once stuff clicks and you start understanding how to play, you start going through without all that much trouble (my point in EO II for this was around the 16th floor of the Labyrinth - after the hardest goddamn boss in the game in the end of the Third Stratum, which forced me to step up my game and do my homework). But it's a game with only the barest story, and that which is there is not really told in cutscenes - and there aren't even "playable characters" per se to have a personality, because you make your whole team from scratch. The third one does have a little story, about the conflict between Armoroad and the Deep City and the mysterious Deep Ones and all that jazz, and you're asked to make some decisions... but it is, ultimately, a game about exploring, not storytelling.

And, in the same way, for the story bit, I'd probably point you somewhere else. Maybe Shadow Hearts, I've heard it's got a real entertaining story. By the way, you ask for JRPGs, but have you played Planescape:Torment? It's got almost no gameplay to speak of, and I'd liken it more to a point-n-click adventure, but it's easily one of the best stories in videogames.

[Terraoblivion]

If you do get a PS3 pick up Valkyria Chronicles. It is a tactical RPG with a large amount of cutscenes and a strong plot focus. It is also the most beautiful game this generation, as the opening shows. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx8Mc8xZFC0) This artstyle carries through the game in both cutscenes and gameplay, never letting up or getting tiring or ugly. The game also very nice soundtrack by Sakimoto throughout. While the story is not going to win any prizes for originality, it is very well written and has some truly touching, sometimes even heart wrenching moments. Both English and Japanese voice acting are of quite high quality that you'd have to be rather picky to actively hate. Personally i prefer the Japanese voices, but the English ones aren't bad by any means.

The only thing that gives me pause in wholeheartedly recommending it is that while the battles are overall turnbased, once you select a solider you move it in real time while the enemy fires back. No one else moves and enemies that can't see you won't turn until you get close, but if you get into their line of sight they will shoot. I'd still say that the overall tactical and turn-based framework is strong enough that it shouldn't be a problem.

[MoelVermillion]

Just to help with suggestions how concrete are you on those rules? Would you be willing to try a game that only fulfills 70% of your rules? Are some of these rules closer to guidelines, as in would you be willing to play a game with voice overs if the it fit your other criteria perfectly? Are there some rules you just won't budge on like the personality of the protagonist? Basically is close enough good enough or does it have to be perfect?

[Kjata]

One thing, I didntmean hard. I meant not easy. Pokemon games are easy (unless you do catch em all). Final Fantasy Tactics is difficult.

Incomp: I've played other games. I play games my friends own. I enjoy shooters. I enjoy Smash Bros. It's just, I know there are good rpgs. I just dont know what they are. The list is what I'm aiming for. You say you know Tactical RPGs? Throw out some names. Preferably in a fantasy setting.

Thetsyman: Guidelines. I love FFX, despite the voiceovers. The only requiremnet is the main character MUST speak. Golden Sun is the exception, and thats the biggest flaw with that game.

I know the PS2 is dead. Whats some good stuff from 6 years ago? Hell, what's something good from the PS1 that has stood he test of time? I mean, I just played through FF9, FF7, and FFT (twice) in he last month or so.

Shadow Hearts is one i've had my eye on for a while. It's fairly hard to get, but it appears Gamestop is shipping now.

Oh, and Cheap is good, too.

EDIT: I think I'll get blue dragon tomorrow. It's only $10 bucks, and has great reviews.

[Ranis]

Lost Odyssey is much, much better than Blue Dragon, but Blue Dragon's got some boss fights that will literally have you on your toes and giving you headaches from how much you are micromanaging your characters. It gets pretty intense.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Final Fantasy VI was, in my mind, one of the best RPGs I've played. I'm not sure why, but I loved it, and would heartily recommend it to you. :smallbiggrin:

[Zevox]

Hm, I was going to recommend Tales of Vesperia, but you already have it it seems. Well, what about the PS2 "Tales" games? Abyss and Legendia? I haven't played them myself as yet, but the series in general seems quite good and seems to fit your requirements.

Xenosaga may also be worth checking out, but the gameplay to cutscene ratio in that trilogy is more like 1:1, and it has voice acting.

As others have said, Lost Odyssey on the 360 is worth a try too. It's basically a Final Fantasy game in all but name, and in my opinion better than the actual Final Fantasy games I've played (4, 8-13 sans 11).

Other than that... sheesh, you've pretty much either hit upon or ruled out the rest of the PS2 and 360 RPGs I could recommend.

Zevox

[John Cribati]

I recommend Fire Emblem. Most of them, anyway. Turn-Based strategy with enough challenge your first playthrough, and enough Characters to have lots of replay value. Come for the gameplay, stay to max out the support conversation library.

However, Hector Hard Mode in the seventh game is brutal.

[Drascin]

See, I think we're having a bit of a desynch in what we mean by "not easy". I personally find FF7 to be incredibly easy unless you go for the WEAPONs, easily around the same level as Pokémon Heart Gold and much, much easier than, say, Pokémon Explorers of Time. Yet in your clarification you say that that one is a game you consider good enough.

So, with that in mind, knowing that you want a fair bit of story (so I can't quite say Disgaea and Makai Wars and the rest of its intensely awesome but heavily gameplay-focused series), and now that you've opened point to PS1 games, let's see what I remember from having either played or being recommended...

...you know, I love turn-based, and yet can remember so very few "pure" Turn-based games that fit even a few of your requirements for the consoles you have (now SNES, there's plenty of good stuff, from the old Final Fantasies to good old Lufia II). You need a DS, by the way :smalltongue:. Anyway, some stuff that comes to mind:

- Valkyrie Profile, PS1. Haunting, beautiful, kind of chain-jerking both in story and mechanics (requirements for some extra content are reallyrather bull****), and possessed of a rather minimalist story with lots of interesting characters and an odd take on Norse Mythology. Requires more reflexes than usual turn-based, though, because you have to combo yourself.
- Valkyrie Profile 2, PS2. A bit more film-like, a lot less open-choice. The battle system is good, however, and the story itself is plenty interesting. Just don't come in expecting the exact same kind of game as VP1, and you'll see it's a really great game. PD: Alicia is awesome :smalltongue:.
- Vagrant Story, PS1. Same director that did FFT, and it shows. Bit weird, and see about reading a FAQ because the game itself isn't all that good at explaining some of the gameplay bits (such as crafting), but it's really damn good. Probably a bit harder than you want, though.
- Grandia II, I know it's on consoles but I played it on PC, so you Google it. A pretty silly JRPG with a story that's cliché and knows it (expect lampshadings) and a rather fun battle system. Has the advantage of usually going for like 5 bucks on PC, if you find it - it's nothing special, but I liked it and it's real cheap.
- Parasite Eve, PS1. The one not fantasy of the lot, but quite good nonetheless. Many insist it's one of Square's masterpieces to this day. Far as I'm aware, it has an atmosphere and storyline that reminds rather of a survival horror game, and a combat system moderately similarsimilar to Vagrant Story.
- Legend of Dragoon, PS1. Pretty odd game mechanics-wise, but from what I hear (I could only play a bit) the story is actually pretty engaging and the game is longer than it looks.

...aaaand I'll continue later, give me a while to go through some game lists to freshen my memory.

[chiasaur11]

Uh, anyone mentioned Persona?

It does have voice, but beyond that...

[Zevox]

Uh, anyone mentioned Persona?

It does have voice, but beyond that...
He mentioned in the first post that he couldn't get into the series due to the main character not speaking. Which would unfortunately rule out pretty much the entire Shin Megami Tensei series (to my knowledge), excellent though they are. Otherwise you can bet that my first recommendation would have been Persona 3 and 4.

Zevox

[Airk]

Well, if you could tolerate the battle system in Tales of Vesperia, you could try Tales of the Abyss(PS2), which I felt to be a much stronger entry in the series overall. Combat is not turn based, but difficulty is adjustable and it's not a joke.

I can also suggest:

La Pucelle Tactics (Way more plot than Disgaia, but a vaguely similar battle system. I had a much easier time engaging with La Pucelle, whereas Disgaia left me bored.).

Shadow Hearts: Covenant - STraaaaange game, but pretty engaging. Somewhat oldschool.

Mana Khemia (1, not 2) - meets nearly all your criteria. Does have voices though (Good luck getting away from that without going back to a PS1 title.) Actually one of my favorite battle systems ever.

I would vote against Valkyrie Profile 2, which I thought was terribly paced, tedious, and confusing.

[Incomp]

If I have to recommend an RPG--this is not a tactical RPG, but it can get hard-- I would say Tales of Symphonia.

Great story, fun combat, it's a JRPG, main character has a personality, (though said personality is irritating) it's just not turn based.

But seriously, that was the most fun I had on the GameCube, period. And I know it got ported to PS2.

[Zevox]

If I have to recommend an RPG--this is not a tactical RPG, but it can get hard-- I would say Tales of Symphonia.
<snip>
But seriously, that was the most fun I had on the GameCube, period. And I know it got ported to PS2.
I'd have recommended that as well, but the problem is that the PS2 port was released only in Japan. So unless Kjata happens to live there, odds are he'd need a Gamecube to get that one.

Zevox

[dgnslyr]

JRPGs are my favorite too!

FF IV-VI are all good, and they all have a port on the PS1, though I heard there's a long load time. Diehard fans consider the SNES version superior, but ports on the GBA exist, though the sound quality is considered worse.

Fire Emblem games are fun RPGs, but more of a tactical game than a traditional RPG. Still worth looking into, but none of the games are on PS2/360, so moot point.

Have you tried Chrono Trigger? I LOVED it.

You're lucky to have a PS2. That's where a lot of good RPGs are.

I've heard good things about Wild Arms, as well as Xenogears.

Also, if I had FFIX, I would be a happy person. :smallwink:
Same goes for FFT.

Also, I never used Kjata when I played FF7...
Enemy skills were just too good.

[blueblade]

ok, consolidating your rules:

- Hate dying frequently in video games
- Don't like voiceovers, unless they're awesome
- Main character needs a personality
- Turn based/tactical preferred, action rpgs with amazing gameplay only
- Gameplay to story ratio to be roughly 3:1.
- Like JRPGs/essentially an interactive movie/I want a story.
- PS2 or 360

My recommendations for you:

Mass Effect 2:
+ challenge level is just right. you do die if you rush things, but the respawn is quick and painless.
+ voice-overs and acting and cut-scenes are fantastic. Play a female main character, she delivers her lines fantastically.
+ interactive movie, story driven: Yup. action sequences are bite sized, and there's always a great balance between them and cut scenes, both of which feel seamless
+ 360, so maybe you can get some use out of it.
- It's not turn-based, and does required a little bit of reflexes. That said, it does have heavy RPG elements, and some squad tactics, so don't be put off. It does tick the boxes as an interactive movie/story, especially in the points where you get to change the direction of the storyline.

FF10 - Surprised you don't have it listed? Your mileage may vary on the quality of voice acting, but I found it generally very good. Tidus certainly has a personality, though you may not love it.

Shadow Hearts: Covenant - Ok, never played it, but it sounds very much along the lines you're looking for.

As you can see, I'm really just trying to get you to look at Mass Effect 2 and realise it ticks your boxes. The other 2 are just so you have choices ;-)

[Sequinox]

They're for GBA, but how about the Golden Sun games?

I love them both to death. They're J rpg's, turn based. A lot of story. Some would say that said story is stereotyped, but I've always found it to be interesting (although a lot of it is basically breaking off on tangents.) If you have a GBA then the game should be really cheap, and if you don't, they're only like 10 bucks nowadays.

I'm not suggesting emulation.

EDIT: Oh, and Mass Effect 2 is incredible. I'd recommend playing the first game first, and then the second. They're both really good. They have a lot of voice overs, though, and are real-time.

[deuxhero]

Get Deus Ex for the PC. If you can view the internet, you should be able to play it.

[Kjata]

Ok, Fire Emblem was mentioned a lot, and let me say this. I LOVED the GBA ones. I have probably played 7 like 8-10 times. I got to around 28 in Hector Hard Mode, but there were too many damn mages on that stage.

@dgnslyr: I never used Kjata either. I registered for a forum about 7 years ago and wanted a name, and for some reason that was the first thing I could thing of. In fact, I didn't play FF7 for like 6 years and was shocked to find a summon with my username.

Tales of the Abyss: This, also is on a wish list. Problem is, It is very hard to get.

@ Sequinox: I mentioned Golden Sun. It was a good game.

And yeah, I realize now FF7 was a bad example of difficulty. I was half asleep when I posted that.

I'm sorry I know this was a difficult request that was very badly requested. I don't even know what the hell I want.

Blue Dragon is pretty fun. I picked it up earlier today.

[Zevox]

Ok, Fire Emblem was mentioned a lot, and let me say this. I LOVED the GBA ones. I have probably played 7 like 8-10 times. I got to around 28 in Hector Hard Mode, but there were too many damn mages on that stage.
If you ever get a Wii, pick up Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (Gamecube game) and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii game). Both are good, with the latter actually being my favorite FE to date (not counting the Japan-only ones, obviously).

Zevox

[Kjata]

If you ever get a Wii, pick up Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (Gamecube game) and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii game). Both are good, with the latter actually being my favorite FE to date (not counting the Japan-only ones, obviously).

Zevox

I played Path of Radiance, and thought it was ok. Good enough that I would have played radiant dawn, except I hate the Wii.

[Inhuman Bot]

It's a shame you only play JRPGs apparently, as Planescape Torment sounds almost exactly like something you'd want to play.

[Winterwind]

I'm somewhat confused, because first you mention looking for video games, but then you proceed to talk about RPGs only as if they comprised the entirety of video games. :smalltongue:

I'd recommend The Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org/), personally - it's tactical and turn-based, it has a ton of different stories to tell with its innumerable campaigns, it's for the most part reasonably easy once one understands the mechanics, yet remains challenging, it has a background not quite dissimilar to Warhammer (Fantasy, not 40k though), and it has no voice-overs. And, it's available for free, too.

But, it's a turn-based strategy game with RPG elements, not an RPG proper.

[Kjata]

I'm somewhat confused, because first you mention looking for video games, but then you proceed to talk about RPGs only as if they comprised the entirety of video games. :smalltongue:

I'd recommend The Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org/), personally - it's tactical and turn-based, it has a ton of different stories to tell with its innumerable campaigns, it's for the most part reasonably easy once one understands the mechanics, yet remains challenging, it has a background not quite dissimilar to Warhammer (Fantasy, not 40k though), and it has no voice-overs. And, it's available for free, too.

But, it's a turn-based strategy game with RPG elements, not an RPG proper.

To me, they do comprise the entirety of video games. There is only a handful of non rpgs (or turn based strategy) that I enjoy, and the majority of these are from around 13 years ago, before I was old enough to grasp an rpg.

In any case, I appreciate the suggestions. I think I'll get lost Odyssey tomorrow, I bought Blue Dragon earlier, and if I can I'll get Tales of the Abyss. I wrote down everything else for future reference.

You guys are the best. Even tho half the comments indicated I was asking for a lot, you guys pulled through. So far I like Blue Dragon. I like how cartoony it is. It's a nice breather, and kinda reminds me of Disgaea.

SOmebody mentioned La Pucelle tactics. Is this better/worse than Disgaea according to my criteria?

Oh, ad the reason my criteria was so strict was because all the games I have bought recently I didnt like.

Persona 3
Dragon Warrior 8
FF13
Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Suikoden Tactics

Thats roughly $160 for stuff I hated. So i was pretty jaded on gaming.

[Hunter Noventa]

SOmebody mentioned La Pucelle tactics. Is this better/worse than Disgaea according to my criteria?

Oh, ad the reason my criteria was so strict was because all the games I have bought recently I didnt like.

Persona 3
Dragon Warrior 8
FF13
Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Suikoden Tactics

Thats roughly $160 for stuff I hated. So i was pretty jaded on gaming.

LP:Tactics has less refined gameplay than Disgaea, but if you like Disgaea you'll probably like it.

If you have access to a GBA or DS i'd suggest Super Robot Wars: Original Generation 1 and 2. They're turn-based strategy games with giant robots, and they can be fairly punishing if you don't know what you're doing. Half the gamestops around here seem to have a copy of one or the other on the GBA shelf for $10, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

[fknm]

It's a shame you only play JRPGs apparently, as Planescape Torment sounds almost exactly like something you'd want to play.

PS:T is pretty much a jRPG made by a western developer.

[Knaight]

I'd recommend The Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org/), personally - it's tactical and turn-based, it has a ton of different stories to tell with its innumerable campaigns, it's for the most part reasonably easy once one understands the mechanics, yet remains challenging, it has a background not quite dissimilar to Warhammer (Fantasy, not 40k though), and it has no voice-overs. And, it's available for free, too.

Seconded, furthermore your computer will almost certainly run it without difficulty.

[Airk]

LP:Tactics has less refined gameplay than Disgaea, but if you like Disgaea you'll probably like it.


It's "less refined" in that the combat system is less bloated with options, and is cleaner and more straightforward. I could never get into Disgaia because the combat engine seemed cluttered with things that didn't really add any value - there seemed like there was a ton of stuff that fell into a big bin of "Well, you can use this if you want, but it's not really that much more effective than not using it." That's probably not -really- true, but it just felt bloated and unnecessarily complex to me, whereas the in La Pucelle combat engine, it's more clear what the purpose of each component is.

Otherwise, La Pucelle solves the one issue the OP mentioned having with Disgaea, namely, that there was a whole heapton of fighting for very little plotting. La Pucelle has what I found to be a much more balanced distribution of combat vs plot.

[Sipex]

Pick up a DS with your 360 money (not that I'm advocating selling the thing, it's a good system but doesn't seem to meet your needs).

The DS will give you very few games with voice overs and has lots of RPGs on it.

Also, you have a PS2, the king of JRPGs back in the day, unfortunately most of them have some sort of voiceovers so you're going to have to suck it up to an extent if you're going that route.

[Ranis]

I'm glad you like Blue Dragon; it's a very light title that gets dark more quickly than you'll realize. Stick with it when you get to hard spots - you'll feel really good about yourself for beating the trickier ones. The last bosses reminded me of the last ones in FF13, basically like puzzles you have to decipher and break down to beat. Quite fun.

[Kjata]

I LOVE Blue Dragon... I'm only at the beginning, but WOW. The battle system is great, it reminds me of FFX. It's cartoony and a whole hell of a lot of fun. I also got lost odyssey, but I'm playing BD first. It kinda reminds me of FF9, in that it opens up with a somewhat cartoony feel, but with a sense of "this is going to get ugly..."

Anyway, I wish I had more money/free time so I could get La Pucelle Tactics.

[Artanis]

Hell, what's something good from the PS1 that has stood he test of time?

Try Chrono Cross. Not quite as good as Chrono Trigger, but then, CT sets the bar about as high as it can get :smallwink:

[SITB]

Try Chrono Cross. Not quite as good as Chrono Trigger, but then, CT sets the bar about as high as it can get :smallwink:

Breath of Fire IV, if you can ignore the bullsh*t filler the game designers thought was a good idea to insert during the building of the climax.

[Starbuck_II]

I'm going to suggest Rhapsody a Musical Adventure on DS. A solid game with a main character that is female.
Surprisingly better than I thought.

[Zevox]

I LOVE Blue Dragon... I'm only at the beginning, but WOW. The battle system is great, it reminds me of FFX.
Really :smallconfused: ? I tried the demo of it on XBLA, and honestly thought the battle system seemed kind of annoying, what with the timing puzzle you have for all of your attacks. I still intend to pick it up at some point, but that put a bit of a damper on my interest in it.

Zevox