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Magicyop
2010-10-05, 06:22 PM
The Golden Alchemist

http://wandsandworlds.com/community/files/Golden_Alchemist.jpg

"There is no force in this world stronger than the ability to buy off your enemies. Control the cash, control the world."

Tychus the Opulent, a Golden Alchemist

Where would any adventurer be without bags of money? Adventurers require only the highest quality equipment, and to get that, they need serious cash. It's no surprise that a group of sorcerers began to do research into a brand of magic specializing in money, specifically, the almighty gold piece. After years of struggling, they mastered the ability to change ordinary objects into gold... they were never unhappy again. The path of the Golden Alchemist may not be as exciting as that of a fighter or a wizard, but in the end, you'll be the one laughing all the way to the bank, and living in despicable luxury.

Making a Golden Alchemist
Golden Alchemists probably can't do things by themselves. They lack the sheer power to take on most endeavors, but in a group, they can easily finance their companions. Thus, as a Golden Alchemist, having good connections is important-- but with your wealth, you may find it relatively easy to make friends...
Abilities: Intelligence and charisma are important to a Golden Alchemist. Charisma will help you barter better, and determines the DC for many of your abilities. Intelligence is the ability tied with Appraise, which helps you to roll in even more dough.
Races: Any reasonably intelligent race can become a Golden Alchemist, though humans are most likely in this case, since they seem to have a love of wealth far greater than any other race.
Alignment: Golden Alchemists have been seen of every alignment. Some use their wealth to help the needy, some use it to pull strings and cause harm. Some use their wealth to build a strong society, others to tear it down.

Class Features

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: The Golden Alchemist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise(INT), Bluff(CHA), Craft(INT), Diplomacy(CHA), Forgery(INT), Gather Information(CHA), Intimidate(CHA), Perform[any](CHA), Profession[any](WIS), Search(INT), Sleight of Hand(DEX), and Use Magic Device(CHA).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int Modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int Modifier

Starting Gold: 10d6 x 10 gold pieces


The Golden Alchemist
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Dream of Wealth (0th)

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Turn to Gold

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Dream of Wealth (1st)

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Golden Touch 1/day

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Secret of Metal

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+2|Dream of Wealth (2nd)

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+2|Golden Touch 2/day

8th|
+6|
+6|
+2|
+2|My Precious

9th|
+6|
+6|
+3|
+3|Dream of Wealth (3rd)

10th|
+7|
+7|
+3|
+3|Secret of Metal, Golden Touch 3/day

11th|
+8|
+7|
+3|
+3|Value Bending, Magic Gold +1

12th|
+9|
+8|
+4|
+4|Dream of Wealth (4th)

13th|
+9|
+8|
+4|
+4|Golden Touch 4/day

14th|
+10|
+9|
+4|
+4|Magic Gold +2

15th|
+11|
+9|
+5|
+5|Secret of Metal, Dream of Wealth (5th)

16th|
+12|
+10|
+5|
+5|Golden Touch 5/day

17th|
+12|
+10|
+5|
+5|Sustained by Money, Magic Gold +3

18th|
+13|
+11|
+6|
+6|Dream of Wealth (6th)

19th|
+14|
+11|
+6|
+6|Consider a Donation

20th|
+15|
+12|
+6|
+6|Gilt Enigma, Secret of Metal, Magic Gold +4[/table]

Dream of Wealth: The Golden Alchemist is obsessed with wealth. As they grow in power, they master mystical abilities based around the use of their wealth and the acquisition of more. At first level, you learn two of the 0th level abilities listed below, usable 2/day as a supernatural ability. Every time you gain another Dream of Wealth ability, all of your lower level abilities gain one more use. When an ability would reach 6 uses per day, it instead becomes usable at will. You learn one 1st level ability at level 3, usable 1/day, and one ability of the next level up every 3 levels. You may choose an ability of a lower level if you like, instead. At any level where you would learn a new Dream of Wealth ability, you may swap out a single one of your lower level abilities for a different one of the same level.

Turn to Gold(su): The Golden Alchemist masters the art of transmuting other objects into gold. Once per day for every Golden Alchemist level, starting at level 2, the alchemist may touch an object and change it into gold. If it is attended or magical, it gets a fortitude save. Each use may effect an object with a maximum weight of 10 pounds per class level. An object which is changed into gold loses any properties based on material it had before, and gains a new value of 10 gold per pound of weight. Transmuting an object to gold is a full-round action. Though the weight of the object changes due to becoming gold, the worth of the object is based on the original weight.

Golden Touch(su): An alchemist is a master of changing objects into gold-- even other creatures. A number of times per day as listed on the table, the alchemist may make a touch attack against a foe. The opponent must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier) or begin to transform into gold. This has an effect like a flesh to stone spell, except the subject becomes gold instead of stone. A creature successfully changed to gold is worth a number of coins as shown on the following table:
{table]Fine|Diminutive|Tiny|Small|Medium|Large|Huge|Garga ntuan|Colossal
20gp|40gp|80gp|160gp|320gp|640gp|1,280gp|2,560gp|5 ,120gp
[/table]
Modified as follows:
{table]Creature is well known|Cost*2
Creature is beautiful to look at|Cost*2
Creature is in particularly interesting pose|Cost*1.5
[/table]
This effects constructs and undead normally.

Secret of Metal: By listening to the whispers of the metal that they love so much, an alchemist can uncover secrets, which they use to strengthen their own gold. Every 5 levels, the Golden Alchemist may choose one of the following secrets. From now on, any object or creature turned to gold possesses this property.


Secret of Iron: Golden object gains +2 AC, and +2 on all saves. A golden weapon gains +1 damage.

Secret of Steel: Golden object gains +4 on fortitude saves, and +1 attack if used as a weapon. Gains hardness 1(stacks with all other hardness) and +2 resistance to sunder attempts or other attempts to destroy the object.

Secret of Mithral: Golden object weighs only half as much and provides +2 max dex bonus if used as armor. Gives +2 attack if used as a weapon. -10% spell failure chance. Armor check penalty is 2 less (minimum 0)

Secret of Silver: Golden object is worth 1.5 times as much. Gains +1 max dex bonus, but -1 AC and takes -1 penalty on damage if used as a weapon. Bypasses DR as if it was silver.

Secret of Cold Iron: Golden object gains +2 damage if used as a weapon. Gains hardness 1(stacks with all other hardness) and +20% hit chance if used against incorporeal foes. Bypasses DR as if it was cold iron.

Secret of Adamant: Golden object gains +3 AC and 7 hardness(stacks with all other hardness). Gains +1 hit and damage if used as a weapon.

Secret of Deep Crystal: Psionic user may invest up to 6 power points in golden object. Every 2 power points increases AC by 1 and damage by 1d6.

Secret of Thinaun: Your gold can absorb the souls of the dead in the same way Thinaun can. If you touch a golden object to a dead body, the soul is absorbed into the gold. The soul gets a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier) to avoid this. Each gold object can hold one soul.

Secret of Platinum: The damage dice of a golden weapon is increased one step. (From d4 to d6, d6 to d8, etc.) Golden objects are worth 1.5 times as much.

My Precious(su): You may add a special quality to a single golden object. This object becomes instantly desirable to everyone except for you. Anyone seeing it must make a will save, with the DC equal to your result on an appraise check when creating the precious object, or want the object. They will do anything in their power to possess the object, but if that would require doing something they would not normally do, they get a second will save with a +5 bonus. Every time they fail one of these will saves, they gain a cumulative -2 penalty on their next will save to resist the same object, as they sink deeper and deeper into desire for the object. If they manage to acquire the object, the will saves are for them to resist the desire to keep it in their possession. You may create a second precious object, but only if you get the first precious object back and remove the precious quality from it. You may reclaim the precious quality after a week without touching the object, if you have not already done so, from a range of 5 miles/level. If it has been two weeks, you can reclaim the quality if the object is on the same plane. If it has been three or more weeks you can reclaim the quality no matter where the object is.

Value Bending(ex): You can make people think your possessions are worth more than they actually are. Once per day you may make an appraise check and a bluff check, and combine your two results. Increase the worth of one of your objects by (the combined result times ten) gold pieces.

Magic Gold: Your gold takes on mystical qualities, making it more useful to you. Anything you turn into gold may have a total of magical properties equal to the amount shown on the table. Changing the properties which you imbue your gold with takes 12 hours of meditation.

Sustained by Money(ex): You can receive sustenance equal to one meal with food and drink simply by sucking on a piece of gold for fifteen minutes.

Consider a Donation(su): You may lull someone into giving you money for basically no reason. Once per day, you may force someone you have been speaking with for at least a minute to give you a gift of gold pieces. The amount you can make them give you is equal to the result of a diplomacy check times ten. They may make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Class level + Charisma modifier) to resist. This is a supernatural, mind-affecting ability.

Gilt Enigma: You have reached the very height of your craft. Choose one of the two abilities listed below. You may not change your choice later.


Hand of Midas(su): You gain a great power, and a great curse. Anything you touch is turned to gold. In practical terms, this means that you can use Turn to Gold and Golden Touch at will, but you may NOT suppress this ability. Anything solid which you touch instantly becomes gold, even your friends. You may not circumvent this ability in any way short of epic magic, and then only with the express permission of your Dungeon Master.

Golden Ascendancy(ex): You reach the pinnacle of your craft, and transform yourself permanently into moving gold. This acts in many ways like a permanent version of the Golden Transformation dream. You gain a permanent +4 natural armor, and 4 hardness (stacks with all other hardness.) You gain the positive effects of all your Secrets of Metal. You gain +2 to your Charisma score, +2 to your Strength score, and a +4 on all diplomacy checks. If you choose, you may make a disguise check with a +5 bonus to disguise the fact that your flesh is gold, though your skin is still very bright. If someone slays you permanently, your body is worth a fortune. Finally, you cease to age at all.

Dream of Wealth Abilities

0th:
Summon Money I
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured some pocket change. In effect, you summon 1d6 copper pieces.

Glitter like Gold
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clutch a golden object and it begins to shine like the sun. This acts as a permanent light spell.

If Money Could Speak
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You hold up a gold piece, copper piece, silver piece or platinum piece, and telepathically hear it recount its past. You can gain information about what it was spent on, who spent it, when, and where.

Astral Mart I
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 10 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 10 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it.

Gold Grab
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You telekinetically pull any gold item less than 30 ft. away to your hand. You may pull a bag of gold pieces as if it was a single gold item. You may not move an item weighing more than 200 pounds.

Empty Bag
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You make someone believe that they are poor. If they fail a will save (DC 10 + Charisma modifier) then any time they look in a place where they have put their money, they see nothing there. This lasts for a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier.

Detect Wealth
Use time: Standard action
Effect: This works exactly like Detect Evil, but you detect valuable objects instead, and the cone is 200 ft. long.

1st:
Summon Money II
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured some money. In effect, you summon 5d6 copper pieces.

Astral Mart II
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 100 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 100 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it.

Allure of Gold
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You hold up a golden object and wave it in a very interesting way. A specific targeted foe must make a will save or be fascinated by the object. They act as hypnotized, and you may give them one command as if they were friendly. The duration is permanent until either you drop the golden object, or something gets you out of their line of sight. You may not take standard actions while keeping a foe fascinated by an object.

Miser's Vault
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You are able to hold much, much more than you should be able to. When you use this, you are able to pack your charisma modifier times as much into a bag as you normally would be able to. You may do this with other people's bags too, but if they take the objects out, they will not be able to get them all back in again without your help.

Worthwhile Strike
Use time: Immediate action
Effect: When you make a melee attack, you may use this ability. It allows you to use your Golden Touch ability through any weapon you are wielding, as part of the attack.

Lucky Coin
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You wave your hand over a coin, and it becomes very, very lucky. For a duration of 1 hour per Golden Alchemist level, anyone who is holding the lucky coin gains a +1 luck bonus to saves, armor class, skill checks, and attack rolls.


2nd:
Summon Money III
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured some spending money. In effect, you summon 2d6 silver pieces.

Astral Mart III
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 500 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 500 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it. You gain a 10 gp discount on any item you purchase this way.

Golden Transformation
Use time: Swift action.
Effect: You transform your skin into molten gold, providing you with protection. Your natural armor increases by +4 and you gain the benefit of all of your Secret of Metal abilities. If you have DR, it is increased by 2, otherwise, you gain DR 2/mithral. This effect lasts one round per point of your charisma modifier.

Paycure
Use time: Swift action.
Effect: You expend gold to heal yourself, devouring the monetary value. You may expend any number of gold pieces which you have on your person, to give yourself instantaneous healing. You gain 1 HP of healing for every 10 GP spent, and for this purpose you may convert between monetary types as you wish. (1 HP is also 1 platinum piece, 100 silver pieces, and 1000 copper pieces). You may even de-value a gold object, such as a creature you have turned to gold, if you are carrying it currently. An object reduced to zero value is destroyed.

Gold Drops
Use time: Standard action.
Effect: You freeze a liquid into gold. Effectively, you are using your Turn to Gold ability, but may use it on a liquid object, or as much Liquid as your Turn to Gold ability will let you. Creatures trapped partially in liquid turned to gold are trapped until they can break the gold or destroy it. Creatures who have their mouth covered in gold may begin to suffocate.


3rd:
Summon Money IV
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured a considerable bit of cash. In effect, you summon 1d6 gold pieces.

Astral Mart IV
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 1000 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 1000 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it. You gain a 100 gp discount on any item purchased in this way.

Dull the Glitter
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You make one object seem non-valuable and undesirable to everyone except you. Make an appraise check to use this ability. People seeing the object for the next (charisma modifier) hours must make a save, with DC equal to the result of your appraise check, or believe the object is worthless for the next (charisma modifier) hours.

Wealth Linked
Use time: Standard action
Effect: For the next 24 hours, you are able to know the current location of all gold or valuables that you possessed at the time of the casting of this ability. This does not enable you to scry the area your valuables are in, it just allows you to track the valuables flawlessly and always know how far away they are.


4th:
Summon Money V
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured a large pouch of cash. In effect, you summon 5d6 gold pieces.

Astral Mart V
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 5000 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 5000 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it. You gain a 500 gp discount on any item purchased in this way.

Animate Gold Swarm
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You breath life into the money you so love, and it animates to serve you. You may animate a number of gold pieces equal to your hit dice squared. These gold pieces become part of a gold swarm with hp equal to the number of gold pieces animated. The swarm takes up a 10 ft. space + 5 ft. for every 50 gold pieces above 100. It has a swarm attack which deals 1d4 damage for every 20 gold pieces in the swarm. It does not nauseate. It moves at your directive, with a ground speed of 20 ft. per round, it may not fly, swim, or burrow, but it may climb at its ground speed. Every time damage is dealt to the swarm, that many gold pieces fall out of the swarm and onto the ground, becoming regular currency again.

Improved Paycure
Use time: Swift action.
Effect: As Paycure, except that you gain 1 HP of healing per 5 GP expended. Additionally, you may spread this healing as you wish between yourself and any creatures within 60 feet.

Gold Smoke
Use time: Standard action.
Effect: You freeze the very air into gold. Effectively, this works like Gold Drops, except that instead of effecting 10 pounds per class level, you effect one 5 foot square per class level. The very air is transformed into gold. Creatures who would be trapped in the area may attempt a reflex save, DC 15 + your Charisma modifier. A successful reflex save allows them to bound to the nearest square which is not being turned to gold, as long as they could get there with one move action.

5th:
Summon Money VI
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured a small fortune. In effect, you summon 25d6 gold pieces.

Astral Mart VI
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 20,000 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 20,000 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it. You gain a 1,000 gp discount on any item purchased in this way.

Cash Weapon
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You may fling your money as a dangerous weapon! You may fling a number of coins equal to your class level. They move and deal damage as a throwing knife. Copper coins gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage for every 6 coins thrown, Silver coins gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage for every 5 coins thrown, Gold coins gain a +1 bonus to attack and a +2 bonus to damage for every 4 coins thrown, and Platinum coins gain a +1 bonus to attack and +2 bonus to damage for every 3 coins thrown.

Buyer Omniscience
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: By concentrating for a full round, you may ascertain all valuable trades or sales nearby. You detect the transactions which involve objects or cash worth more than all other transactions, within a range of 1 mile per class level. You are able to sense the five most valuable transactions occurring within your range that have occurred up to a day before your casting, or up to a day into the future of your casting. You know the location of these transactions and what valuable goods are involved.


6th:
Summon Money VII
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You clench your fist, and when you open it, you have conjured a fortune. In effect, you summon 125d6 gold pieces.

Astral Mart VII
Use time: Full-round action
Effect: You are a well known buyer. You can buy any item which costs 100,000 gold or less from anywhere. The cost in gold disappears from your bag, and the item replaces it. The purchase cost is the same as if you bought it normally, in a village or such, but you can get any item which costs less than 100,000 gold and you can get it anywhere, the moment you need it. You gain a 5,000 gp discount on any item purchased in this way.

Worth More Dead
Use time: Standard action
Effect: You point with your fingers and an opponent instantly melts into a precious object. There is no save against this effect, and it may be used at a range of 50 ft. It is otherwise identical to your golden touch. Spell resistance still applies. You may only effect a target who currently has hp below a certain limit. This limit is equal to 1/2 your class level, times your charisma modifier.

Glory to the Gold
Use time: Standard action
Effect: As allure of gold, except much more powerful. A foe's mind is drawn into a gold object, making the entire world seem unimportant by comparison. The foe is permanently fascinated by the object, even if you drop it, as long as they have line of sight to the object. While they are fascinated, anything you ask them to do counts as a suggestion, except that you may ask them to do unreasonable things. However, anything that would make them stop looking at the gold breaks the effect. If nothing gets in the way, the foe may stare into the gold without care until they die from not eating.

Epic Golden Alchemist

{table=head]Level|Special

21|Dream of Wealth
22|Bonus Feat
23|Magic Gold +5
24|Dream of Wealth
25|Epic Secret of Metal, Bonus Feat
26|Magic Gold +6
27|Dream of Wealth
28|Bonus Feat
29|Magic Gold +7
30|Epic Secret of Metal, Dream of Wealth[/table]

Dream of Wealth: At 21st level, and every 3 levels afterwards, you may choose to either grant each of your Dream of Wealth abilities an extra use (becoming at-will when you gain 6 uses as usual) or choose a new Dream of Wealth ability of any level. You have as many uses of that dream of wealth ability as you did of any other dream of that level.

Bonus Feat: At 22nd level, and every 3 levels afterwards, you gain a bonus epic feat from this list:
Additional Magic Item Space (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#additionalMagicItemSpace), Armor Skin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#armorSkin), Augmented Alchemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#augmentedAlchemy), Blinding Speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#blindingSpeed), Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#damageReduction), Epic Skill Focus (Appraise, Diplomacy) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSkillFocus), Epic Spell Penetration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellPenetration), Extended Life Span (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan), Great Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greatCharisma), Great Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greatIntelligence), Polyglot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#polyglot).

Magic Gold: Starting at level 23, and every 3 levels afterwards, the magical properties of your gold increase by one. Further, you may now spend the bonus on epic properties, if you have enough bonus.

Epic Secret of Metal: At level 25 and every 5 levels afterward, you gain another Secret of Metal. You may either choose a normal Secret of Metal, or choose one of the Epic secrets below:

Secret of Serren: Your gold is able to interact with the incorporeal normally, as if it were under the effects of a Ghost Touch enchantment. Further, you act as though your gold is perpetually under the effects of a Wraithstrike spell, in that any attacks you make with it are touch attacks.

Secret of Aurorum: Your gold gains regeneration equal to 1/2 your class level. Since it is nonliving, it gains no special resistance to lethal damage, but it heals a good amount of damage each round, and if you bring two pieces of a broken gold object together, they reform and seal into the unblemished golden object.

Secret of Starmetal: Your gold gains +3 AC and +7 Hardness (stacks with all other hardness), and a +1 to attack and damage if used as a weapon, just like adamant. Further, all extraplanar creatures who touch your gold take 1d6 untyped damage each round and must make a DC 10 Fortitude Save or be instantly killed and turned to ash.

Secret of Stygian Ice: Your gold chills the air around it. As a free action you may cause any of your gold objects to radiate an aura with a radius of 10 feet that causes the temperature to drop by up to 10 degrees. Further, at your command, as a swift action, the gold will burn with cold, and cause those touching it to take 1d6 cold damage and 2 WIS damage each round they are in contact with it or touch it. Even when both these effects are off, your gold always feels rather cold to the touch.


Feats

Cash Casting
Prerequisites: Golden Alchemist 1, Caster Level 3.
Effect: Any and all material components and focuses that you need to cast your spells are unneeded. Instead, you may simply expend a number of gold pieces equal to the value of the needed focus or component at the time of your casting the spell. You additionally gain a 5 gp discount on all material components, and the price you must spend on any focus is halved.

Host of Dreams
Prerequisites: Dream of Wealth class ability.
Effect: Choose one Dream of Wealth ability that you know. You gain one extra use of that ability. As usual, if you would gain 6 uses of the ability, it instead becomes at will.
Special: You may take this feat a number of times equal to half your intelligence modifier (Minimum 1.)

Shining Ray
Prerequisites: Turn to Gold class ability.
Effect: You may now use your Turn to Gold and Golden Touch class abilities at a range of 10 feet. (In which case, these attacks count as a ray, they require a ranged touch attack instead of a touch attack.) You are not required to use this ability when you use those class abilities, which means that if you possess the Hand of Midas class ability, you do not turn everything within 10 ft. of you to gold.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, the maximum range of your ray increases by 10 feet.

Gilded Blast
Prerequisites: Shining Ray.
Effect: You may choose to use your Shining Ray attack as a line. The line has the same range as your ray attack. Enemies must make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your charisma modifier) to avoid the attack. If they succeed on their save, they avoid the blast completely.

Dense Gold
Prerequisites: Golden Alchemist 8.
Effect: All creatures that you turn to gold have their value doubled from the value noted for their size. However, because you are making your gold literally more dense, the weight of these creatures also doubles, so they may be more difficult to transport around.

Transmute Return
Prerequisites: Golden Alchemist 5.
Effect: By performing a ritual requiring a DC 20 Craft(Alchemy) check and four hours of preparation, in addition to alchemical facilities, you may create a solution which will transform a gold object soaked in it back to its original state. In the case of an object or creature which you converted to gold, it returns to life. In the case of something that was gold to begin with, roll on this table to see what the gold transmutes to. Each dose negates one medium creature worth of gold.


{table=head]d%|Effect
0-30|Stone
31-40|Living Flesh
41-70|Useless Chalk
71-75|Platinum
76-85|Glass
86-95|Coal
96-99|Solid Quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm)
[/table]

All solution that you create spoils after 48 hours if it is not used, so it is impossible to stockpile it.


Please give your honest opinion! Thanks very much for reading. If you have any suggestions for more Dream of Wealth abilities, it'd be great if you could post them!

DracoDei
2010-10-05, 07:08 PM
Astral Mart is silly... I like it!

Time is on this class's side... 10 years for a second level one is probably enough to get more wealth than most 20th level characters. 10 years is nothing for an elf.

Gold Grab should have a weight limit, otherwise you could move around ginormous gold-covered statues... or even just reuse bags of gold/gold spheres as dropping weapons while flying.

Benly
2010-10-05, 07:09 PM
Well, on the one hand, he breaks the heck out of WBL guidelines. On the other hand, any campaign that isn't set up to withstand that is going to start running into trouble when the casters start hitting the mid levels anyway. :smallsmile:

My Precious is an extremely niche and situational ability. Neat, but niche and situational.

There should ideally be a way to swap out old Dream of Wealth abilities for others of their tier as new ones become available. In particular, Summon Money and Astral Mart of any given tier become outdated and functionally useless relatively quickly, so lacking a way to swap out abilities means you're stuck either not using those abilities at the low levels when they would be useful or having a completely useless ability at higher levels instead of a useful power.

It would be nice if Astral Mart either let you sell off the gold statues you're cranking out or spend them directly for fine Astral-Mart brand goods and services. It lets you avoid crashing the market for solid gold hobgoblins when you get back to town.

It might make sense to create a conventional arcane/divine spell for contacting Astral-Mart ("Because Quality Has The Timeless Planar Trait"). On the other hand, that would make it less attractive as an ability for the Golden Alchemist. Honestly, I like Astral-Mart enough to suggest making it separate from the Dream of Wealth ability track and have it be a basic ability of the Golden Alchemist that automatically progresses.

Because who doesn't like Astral-Mart? It's like a color pool of values.

Magicyop
2010-10-05, 07:24 PM
Thank you both very much for your suggestions!

I can definitely see how Astral Mart could make a good ability for progression in the class without putting it in Dream of Wealth, but Dream of Wealth is pretty bare as it is so I'll likely leave it until I have some more abilities put in, then switch it over.

Good point about gold grab... You could goldenize a Tarrasque, then drag it behind you using an at-will ability. I'll add a weight limit, how does 200 lbs. sound? Too much?

Can you think of a way to make My Precious less situational, then? My idea was that you could easily use it as a bargaining tool, or such, or to get people to kill their loved ones. But the issue being that if they get their grubby mitts on it, it'll be difficult to get your class feature back.

You're right about swapping out Dream of Wealth abilities, I'll say that every time you would gain a new dream of wealth ability, you can also swap one lower level one for an ability of the same level.

I'll consider making Astral Mart a typical spell as well--

I was also considering the following ability, for multiclass or gestalt members of the class:

All You Need is Gold
Use time: Immediate action
Effect: When casting any spell at all, you may use this ability to use gold pieces instead of a material component. Instead of having to buy the material component, you simply expend the number of gold pieces that the reagent wold otherwise cost.

You're both right of course about breaking the wealth by level guidelines, that's sort of the intention of the class. Not as powerful as any other class, but heck, you are ROLLING in dough. A class feature I was thinking about to make sure this doesn't overpower the whole party...

Miser(ex): You begin to covet your wealth so much, you have problems sharing it... you must make a will save, DC 15 + (The price of the item or wealth you are giving divided by 1,000) or be unable to. This builds up over the week, so you cannot just give someone one gold piece repeatedly. At the beginning of every week, your save DC resets to 15.

InfiniteNothing
2010-10-05, 07:29 PM
I've gotta agree with the Astral-Mart comment Magicyop made, but you should probably make it so that Hand of Midas can be turned off for a time. Otherwise the character'll starve to death in a week upon hitting 20th level. I'm thinking maybe, oh, 10 minutes per character level. That's a little over 2 hours at 20th, which is fair if all you use it for is eating.

Magicyop
2010-10-05, 07:34 PM
I've gotta agree with the Astral-Mart comment Magicyop made, but you should probably make it so that Hand of Midas can be turned off for a time. Otherwise the character'll starve to death in a week upon hitting 20th level. I'm thinking maybe, oh, 10 minutes per character level. That's a little over 2 hours at 20th, which is fair if all you use it for is eating.

They won't starve to death, see the ability a couple levels early, "Sustained by Money". They can suck on a chunk of gold and act as though they've eaten.

Benly
2010-10-05, 07:37 PM
Can you think of a way to make My Precious less situational, then? My idea was that you could easily use it as a bargaining tool, or such, or to get people to kill their loved ones. But the issue being that if they get their grubby mitts on it, it'll be difficult to get your class feature back.


Maybe some number of days after it leaves your possession, you can take back its "preciousness" from a distance? My problem with it is that having an awesome bargaining tool is nice, but not when actually bargaining with it stands a good chance of making you lose a class feature forever. As it stands, the ability is basically only useful if you have no intent of handing over the item you're bargaining with, and for someone whose other central class ability is "this guy is a fantastic buyer/seller", having to not actually follow through on the deal is kind of awkward.

Magicyop
2010-10-05, 07:40 PM
Maybe some number of days after it leaves your possession, you can take back its "preciousness" from a distance? My problem with it is that having an awesome bargaining tool is nice, but not when actually bargaining with it stands a good chance of making you lose a class feature forever. As it stands, the ability is basically only useful if you have no intent of handing over the item you're bargaining with, and for someone whose other central class ability is "this guy is a fantastic buyer/seller", having to not actually follow through on the deal is kind of awkward.

That is an excellent point... I'll make it so after one week you can reclaim it if it is within 1 mile/level, and after two weeks, you can reclaim it if it's on the same plane, and after one month, you can reclaim it no matter where it is. Does that sound okay?

Benly
2010-10-05, 07:57 PM
That is an excellent point... I'll make it so after one week you can reclaim it if it is within 1 mile/level, and after two weeks, you can reclaim it if it's on the same plane, and after one month, you can reclaim it no matter where it is. Does that sound okay?

Sounds reasonable. It might be a nice bonus to cut down the delay on it as you gain levels, though. I might also extend it to 5 or 10 miles/level just because, well, adventurers travel a lot in a week and it's nice to be able to be well on the road when your mark starts wondering why he ever paid through the nose for that silly thing. Long enough that you can be out of town with a long head start, short enough that you can't be on the other side of the planet.

Edit: Actually, if the countdown starts when you precious-ize it rather than when you give it away, that covers part of the "adventurers travel a lot in a week" issue. Just make sure to keep it well covered if you prep a treasure in advance so your buddies don't start backstabbing each other over it.

Magicyop
2010-10-05, 08:04 PM
Sounds reasonable. It might be a nice bonus to cut down the delay on it as you gain levels, though. I might also extend it to 5 or 10 miles/level just because, well, adventurers travel a lot in a week and it's nice to be able to be well on the road when your mark starts wondering why he ever paid through the nose for that silly thing. Long enough that you can be out of town with a long head start, short enough that you can't be on the other side of the planet.

Edit: Actually, if the countdown starts when you precious-ize it rather than when you give it away, that covers part of the "adventurers travel a lot in a week" issue. Just make sure to keep it well covered if you prep a treasure in advance so your buddies don't start backstabbing each other over it.

Oh, definitely. One of the issues is that you can't choose who wants the precious, so if your barbarian buddy is in the room with you, he might wonder why the heck you are selling this awesome thing to an NPC instead of giving it to him.

Made that change.

Morph Bark
2010-10-06, 06:19 AM
Any Good creature hitting level 20 in this class will be running around in full-body suits made of gold. :smallbiggrin: (Well, plate armour, more likely, since gold isn't flexible in the way cloth is.)

The class quote in combo with it sounding like something from Heroes made me think of making a villain who wants to control all the cheerleaders in the world... which totally fits in my current campaign. Army of bards/marshals/dragon shamans, here I come!

Haven't ever heard of deep crystal or thinaun before, though. Where can I find them?

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 06:45 AM
Any Good creature hitting level 20 in this class will be running around in full-body suits made of gold. :smallbiggrin: (Well, plate armour, more likely, since gold isn't flexible in the way cloth is.)

The class quote in combo with it sounding like something from Heroes made me think of making a villain who wants to control all the cheerleaders in the world... which totally fits in my current campaign. Army of bards/marshals/dragon shamans, here I come!

Haven't ever heard of deep crystal or thinaun before, though. Where can I find them?

Deep Crystal is from Expanded Psionics Handbook, Thinaun is from... I forget. It's this dark iron type thing that lets you suck out and store one soul at a time in the blade.

katarl
2010-10-06, 06:49 AM
Couldn't you wear gloves/gauntlets/cover your hands in a thin layer of riverine to prevent the hand of midas from being constantly on?

I'm less worried about the food, and more the water (liquid gold isn't very tasty).

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 06:50 AM
Couldn't you wear gloves/gauntlets/cover your hands in a thin layer of riverine to prevent the hand of midas from being constantly on?

I'm less worried about the food, and more the water (liquid gold isn't very tasty).

Sure it isn't. That's part of the curse. And you don't have to drink it, sucking on the hunk of gold gives you food and drink.

I guess you could, but any smart DM would rule that as circumventing your curse and say that it doesn't work. Plus, then, to use any of your abilities, you need to take the time to remove your gloves...

Merk
2010-10-06, 08:40 AM
This is an awesome concept. I think the various Summon Money and Astral Mart abilities should be worked into the class progression instead of being part of dreams of wealth, since:

a) They're both very, very good, and
b) They need to scale to be useful.

You may also want to put some constraints on Summon Money, because as I read it, it obviously leads to infinite money. Maybe you can have it function more like a cosmic line of credit:

When you use Summon Money, you gain the temporary use of a certain amount of money. While you have unspent conjured money in your possession, you may not summon additional money. Once you have spent or discarded this money, you may conjure another amount of money. You may attempt to summon money once per day per class level.

You incur alchemic debt when you spend summoned money. To "pay off" your debt, you must take an amount of real money that you have and perform the Devaluation Ritual (this works like the Turn to Gold ability, but it turns coined money into worthless ash; you can use this at-will). You have a one week grace period after any purchase using summoned money to perform the devaluation; after one week, you automatically gain one negative level per amount of money that is overdue (which are cumulative), and the only way to remove the negative levels is to perform devaluation with an appropriate amount of money (you can pay off multiple debts with one lump sum or pay off individual debts at various times, but you must pay off all of an individual debt to get rid of the negative level associated with it). This penalty applies even if you would otherwise be immune to gaining negative levels.

DrWeird
2010-10-06, 08:58 AM
Secret of Steel? More like the Riddle of Steel. Don't tell Arnie.

In a game where wealth can become the dividing line between success and failure due to magic items and your amounts thereof, this is a very good class. Everybody so far has covered pretty much everything. I have only this to say, because my brain doesn't work very quickly in the morning.

I LOVE GOOOOLD!

Morph Bark
2010-10-06, 10:09 AM
You incur alchemic debt when you spend summoned money. To "pay off" your debt, you must take an amount of real money that you have and perform the Devaluation Ritual (this works like the Turn to Gold ability, but it turns coined money into worthless ash; you can use this at-will). You have a one week grace period after any purchase using summoned money to perform the devaluation; after one week, you automatically gain one negative level per amount of money that is overdue (which are cumulative), and the only way to remove the negative levels is to perform devaluation with an appropriate amount of money (you can pay off multiple debts with one lump sum or pay off individual debts at various times, but you must pay off all of an individual debt to get rid of the negative level associated with it). This penalty applies even if you would otherwise be immune to gaining negative levels.

While I agree that limits would be a good idea, and the idea of "while you have unspent conjured money in your possession, you may not summon additional money" is sound, this proposal seems rather counterintuitive to this class, really. I mean, isn't it part of its point (and beauty) that it can get more money than others? I mean, with the other limit, if you take only Summon Money Dream of Wealth abilities, you could at the absolute maximum (which is highly unlikely with die roll chances) get 936 gp, 12 sp and 36 cp per day, at level 18. If Magicyop'd disable the Golden Alchemist from using a Summon Money ability while he still has spendable money from another use of Summon Money (but of a different level of course), then the most expensive items he could buy every day would be:

6 cp at level 1
30 cp at level 3 (3 sp)
12 sp at level 6
6 gp at level 9
30 gp at level 12
150 gp at level 15
750 gp at level 18

So really, in all, with that change, the Summon Money would function like daily pocket money, change that lingers in your wallet. Sure, you could have nigh-infinite (actually, just a really big amount of) items at level 18, but none would be more expensive than 750 gp.

If Magicyop would just make all the unspent Summon'd Money disappear at the end of every day, the most expensive items he could have at level 18 would be 936 gp, 12 sp and 36 cp. That limitation would be even better, I'd say. Of course, only for unspent Summon'd Money, because otherwise you'd get a ton of raging, angry shopkeepers after you.

So, while I agree that it might need tweaking just a bit, it's not as much as you would think. It's not meant to be an NPC class after all, and tying a debt mechanic to a class of that sort is even worse than a Paladin's or Samurai's Code of Conduct.


...also, this class would be hilarious in combo with Vow of Poverty.

firemagehao
2010-10-06, 10:13 AM
How does golden touch work on undead, who have no constitution?

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 11:58 AM
This is an awesome concept. I think the various Summon Money and Astral Mart abilities should be worked into the class progression instead of being part of dreams of wealth, since:

a) They're both very, very good, and
b) They need to scale to be useful.


Perhaps Astral Mart, but no, I think Summon Money works well in Dream of Wealth. And they do not need to scale to be useful, for example, even a high level adventurer could still do with the ability to summon enough to buy a beer at will. Stripped of all your possessions? Bribe the guard!



You may also want to put some constraints on Summon Money...


While I agree that limits would be a good idea, and the idea of "while you have unspent conjured money in your possession, you may not summon additional money" is sound, this proposal seems rather counterintuitive to this class....

....it's not as much as you would think. It's not meant to be an NPC class after all, and tying a debt mechanic to a class of that sort is even worse than a Paladin's or Samurai's Code of Conduct.

M-Bark is right here. You can't get any significant fortune in one day. Sure, a Golden Alchemist who spends ten years contemplating his navel in a dark cave could easily amass a fortune. But... he wasted ten years of his life. You can only get the amount M-Bark mentioned if you roll maximum AND spend every standard action in the day summoning money. The entire point of this class is to have more money than everyone else.



...also, this class would be hilarious in combo with Vow of Poverty.

Bwahahahahahahaha! :smalltongue:


How does golden touch work on undead, who have no constitution?

I meant to put that in. Those who cannot make fortitude saves instead make a will save.


Secret of Steel? More like the Riddle of Steel. Don't tell Arnie.

In a game where wealth can become the dividing line between success and failure due to magic items and your amounts thereof, this is a very good class. Everybody so far has covered pretty much everything. I have only this to say, because my brain doesn't work very quickly in the morning.

I LOVE GOOOOLD!

Ahh, thank you very much! :smallsmile: I'm glad to hear my first attempt at a base class is actually good! :smalltongue:

Also, I added a new 5th level ability.

Lateral
2010-10-06, 01:04 PM
This class is awesomely ridiculous. Keep it up!

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 02:36 PM
This class is awesomely ridiculous. Keep it up!

Fantastic, thank you! :smallbiggrin: It's great to hear that my work isn't bad!

Benly
2010-10-06, 03:46 PM
I meant to put that in. Those who cannot make fortitude saves instead make a will save.

Undead and constructs can make fortitude saves. They're just immune to fortitude effects that don't affect unliving things - against other effects, like Disintegrate, they make fortitude saves like anyone else, with no constitution bonus. This is one of the drawbacks of being a creature with no constitution score - they're immune to a lot of things that prompt fort saves, but explicitly not all of them, and against the things that get through that immunity they're rather vulnerable due to the lack of a bonus. Polymorph works just fine on them, so I don't see why they'd be immune to this fort save either.

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 03:56 PM
Undead and constructs can make fortitude saves. They're just immune to fortitude effects that don't affect unliving things - against other effects, like Disintegrate, they make fortitude saves like anyone else, with no constitution bonus. This is one of the drawbacks of being a creature with no constitution score - they're immune to a lot of things that prompt fort saves, but explicitly not all of them, and against the things that get through that immunity they're rather vulnerable due to the lack of a bonus. Polymorph works just fine on them, so I don't see why they'd be immune to this fort save either.

Oh, alright, thank you. I'll change it back.

Fable Wright
2010-10-06, 04:06 PM
Some thoughts:
You just completely broke the WBL guidelines. If this were to be allowed, then Astral Mart should be the only way to get magical items.

Astral Mart: Very cool and creative. However, it seems that you should have a 5% chance of getting stuck on hold for several minutes... if for nothing else, for the laughs. Something about characters not always being able to summon the (insert enemy's type bane)(Insert enemy's weak element) weapon whenever needed, too... but I find the idea of being forced to occasionally be put on hold, or get a very bad receptionist hilarious for some reason.

Midas touch: Seriously, with the wealth you'll be turning out, you could just buy some magic gloves that rid you of the effect while you wear them. The 'curse' bit is not too great, really. Conisder making it more of a downside, or getting rid of the downside.

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 04:12 PM
Some thoughts:
You just completely broke the WBL guidelines. If this were to be allowed, then Astral Mart should be the only way to get magical items.


Well, that's kind of the point... See the miser feature that I mentioned above, that I'm considering. I feel that it isn't as much a problem for the Golden Alchemist, but in a party, they could easily give super gear to people who are already optimized wizards. If I add this miser feature, they would be wealthy but would have to keep that wealth to themselves.



Astral Mart: Very cool and creative. However, it seems that you should have a 5% chance of getting stuck on hold for several minutes... if for nothing else, for the laughs. Something about characters not always being able to summon the (insert enemy's type bane)(Insert enemy's weak element) weapon whenever needed, too... but I find the idea of being forced to occasionally be put on hold, or get a very bad receptionist hilarious for some reason.
That's actually a really funny idea. I'll try to think of a way to implement that.


Midas touch: Seriously, with the wealth you'll be turning out, you could just buy some magic gloves that rid you of the effect while you wear them. The 'curse' bit is not too great, really. Conisder making it more of a downside, or getting rid of the downside.

And what type of magic gloves would those be? As written, there is nothing without GM Fiat that would allow them to circumvent the curse.

Kris Strife
2010-10-06, 04:29 PM
If gold is valued by weight, wouldn't the Secret of Mithral actually make it have a lower value? :smallconfused:

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 04:31 PM
If gold is valued by weight, wouldn't the Secret of Mithral actually make it have a lower value? :smallconfused:

No, because the value is generated when you turn it into gold. So if I have Secret of Mithral, and I transform a 10 pound object into gold, it is 10 pounds worth of gold but it weighs only 5 pounds.

Kris Strife
2010-10-06, 04:36 PM
Which means that when you go to sell the item and they put it on the scale, it will only weigh 5 lbs, even though its 10lbs worth of gold.

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 04:41 PM
Which means that when you go to sell the item and they put it on the scale, it will only weigh 5 lbs, even though its 10lbs worth of gold.

The Secret of Mithral does not actually make the metal lighter, it is a hypnosis effect on the person carrying it which allows them to not feel the stress of carrying such a heavy object. :smallwink:

I'll try to think of something. Perhaps the mithral imbued into the gold makes it just that much higher quality that it's worth the same despite weighing half as much.

Morph Bark
2010-10-06, 04:44 PM
Secrets of Silver, Mithral and Platinum combined... you'd get an item that is worth four times as much as one would think for its weight! (Since 1.5x1.5=2 in DnD when determining bonuses.)

Wonder how often you'd be called a counterfeiter or a cheat. :smallwink:

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 04:52 PM
Secrets of Silver, Mithral and Platinum combined... you'd get an item that is worth four times as much as one would think for its weight! (Since 1.5x1.5=2 in DnD when determining bonuses.)

Wonder how often you'd be called a counterfeiter or a cheat. :smallwink:

Well, but you only get three secrets in the basic progression, so you'd have to use them all. Now when you use your golden touch on a beautiful, well known actress in an artistic pose...

Then you get a statue worth 24 times its normal weight indicator! (4,000 GP total, when all is said and done.)

But people might wonder why you are selling this perfect replica in the same week the beloved actress went missing. :smalltongue:

But you need to be 20th level to take advantage of the trick, so... not quite as overpowered as it sounds.

Morph Bark
2010-10-06, 05:01 PM
Well, but you only get three secrets in the basic progression, so you'd have to use them all. Now when you use your golden touch on a beautiful, well known actress in an artistic pose...

Then you get a statue worth 24 times its normal weight indicator! (4,000 GP total, when all is said and done.)

But people might wonder why you are selling this perfect replica in the same week the beloved actress went missing. :smalltongue:

4000 GP for the gold alone, tons more for the actress (possibly with ransom included). Also depends heavily on the pose, but hey, that's why they get Diplomacy, non? :smallwink:

Fable Wright
2010-10-06, 05:38 PM
And what type of magic gloves would those be? As written, there is nothing without GM Fiat that would allow them to circumvent the curse.

Custom magic item. Find a powerful wizard/sorcerer, offer them the wealth of a small kingdom, and then the make you gloves that make antimagic fields inside of them. Thus, while your hands are in there, they are surrounded by an antimagic field that encompasses your hands, and your hands alone. Possibly, instead, make it so that the gloves cast Gold to Flesh on whatever they touch. If you touch something, the forces counter each other out, and thus the ability is negated.l

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 05:40 PM
Custom magic item. Find a powerful wizard/sorcerer, offer them the wealth of a small kingdom, and then the make you gloves that make antimagic fields inside of them. Thus, while your hands are in there, they are surrounded by an antimagic field that encompasses your hands, and your hands alone. Possibly, instead, make it so that the gloves cast Gold to Flesh on whatever they touch. If you touch something, the forces counter each other out, and thus the ability is negated.l

This would require GM Fiat, and then it's the GM's problem. You're mixing up what you call as a crunch problem with a roleplaying solution.

Morph Bark
2010-10-06, 05:42 PM
Custom magic item. Find a powerful wizard/sorcerer, offer them the wealth of a small kingdom, and then the make you gloves that make antimagic fields inside of them. Thus, while your hands are in there, they are surrounded by an antimagic field that encompasses your hands, and your hands alone. Possibly, instead, make it so that the gloves cast Gold to Flesh on whatever they touch. If you touch something, the forces counter each other out, and thus the ability is negated.l

Well, technically, the way the ability is worded, it doesn't matter what part of your body is touched, it will turn into gold nonetheless. Heck, if you'd walk around barefooted, the dirt you place your feet on would become gold, thus also making you very easy to track if nonmagical (and non-custom magical) footwear does not prevent it.

Magicyop
2010-10-06, 05:45 PM
Well, technically, the way the ability is worded, it doesn't matter what part of your body is touched, it will turn into gold nonetheless. Heck, if you'd walk around barefooted, the dirt you place your feet on would become gold, thus also making you very easy to track if nonmagical (and non-custom magical) footwear does not prevent it.

Right, but it only works on solid matter. So you don't accidentally die by falling into water(because that would be stupid) or drip gold as it condenses from the air.

firemagehao
2010-10-06, 07:27 PM
So you don't accidentally die by falling into water(because that would be stupid) or drip gold as it condenses from the air.

But what if I want a golden (literally) aura?


And also, this could make awesome living constructs.

Benly
2010-10-06, 09:03 PM
But what if I want a golden (literally) aura?


And also, this could make awesome living constructs.

You could still say that a fine gold powder perpetually sifts to the ground around him from dust in the air or whatnot.

Nanoblack
2010-10-06, 09:34 PM
Custom magic item. Find a powerful wizard/sorcerer, offer them the wealth of a small kingdom, and then the make you gloves that make antimagic fields inside of them. Thus, while your hands are in there, they are surrounded by an antimagic field that encompasses your hands, and your hands alone. Possibly, instead, make it so that the gloves cast Gold to Flesh on whatever they touch. If you touch something, the forces counter each other out, and thus the ability is negated.l

That's a nice thought, but not everything you touch is going to be originally made of gold... you're going to be dripping hamburger everywhere you go... :smalleek:

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-07, 12:31 AM
This is going to sound a bit odd at this point but... was this class intended for serious use (in a serious campaign)?

I honestly can't tell. :smallconfused:
Some of these abilities are obviously jokes but playing a character with the midas curse isn't that wierd of an idea and this guy basically does what the wizard does (break WBL) without the middle-man of spells. :smalltongue:

Also, when you gain a discount at Astral Mart, you should state both a maximum discount both in gold and in percentage. Otherwise, I'll just take free items that are valuable enough to make summon money pretty worthless.

Also, I have a suggestion in regards to your Dream of Wealth abilities. To point out a two key points.
1. You currently only ever end up with 7 of these abilities.
2. Apart from these abilities and a few save-or-dies, you don't really have anything to do with your actions (other than activate magic items, I guess).

I suggest two simple alterations:
1. Instead of forcing you to choose Dream of Wealth abilities, why not make it like spontaneous casting, having a certain number of uses to use any Dream of Wealth abilities of that level each day. This way, you wouldn't have to build Astral Mart/Summon money into your class as everyone else suggests because every ability will be "built in".
2. To give you enough "useful" abilities to get through the day, I recommend starting each level at 2 uses/day when you get it and increasing from there (effectively granting one extra use of each level of dream you have access to and granting unlimited uses with an additional level).

Magicyop
2010-10-07, 06:45 AM
This is going to sound a bit odd at this point but... was this class intended for serious use (in a serious campaign)?

I honestly can't tell. :smallconfused:
Some of these abilities are obviously jokes but playing a character with the midas curse isn't that wierd of an idea and this guy basically does what the wizard does (break WBL) without the middle-man of spells. :smalltongue:


This is intended for serious use. Some of the ability names are references or jokes, sure, but mechanically, the class is intended to be user however-the-heck the player wants. This is not intended to be a joke class.



Also, when you gain a discount at Astral Mart, you should state both a maximum discount both in gold and in percentage. Otherwise, I'll just take free items that are valuable enough to make summon money pretty worthless.
Good idea, thank you!


Also, I have a suggestion in regards to your Dream of Wealth abilities. To point out a two key points.
1. You currently only ever end up with 7 of these abilities.
2. Apart from these abilities and a few save-or-dies, you don't really have anything to do with your actions (other than activate magic items, I guess).

Well, this is sort of the idea... the Dream of Wealth abilities are *not* spells. I did not want to create a reflavored wizard. Activating magic items, turning people to gold, using Dream of Wealth abilities... and nothing stops the Golden Alchemist from swinging a sword every once and a while, he does have 3/4 BAB.



I suggest two simple alterations:
1. Instead of forcing you to choose Dream of Wealth abilities, why not make it like spontaneous casting, having a certain number of uses to use any Dream of Wealth abilities of that level each day. This way, you wouldn't have to build Astral Mart/Summon money into your class as everyone else suggests because every ability will be "built in".
2. To give you enough "useful" abilities to get through the day, I recommend starting each level at 2 uses/day when you get it and increasing from there (effectively granting one extra use of each level of dream you have access to and granting unlimited uses with an additional level).

Hmm. I'll consider both of these. The second seems better than the first, I like the idea of having to customize your Alchemist in this way.

Lev
2010-10-07, 08:26 AM
That's a lot of D6's to roll for Summon Money VII.

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-07, 08:52 AM
Hmmm... for additional dreams of wealth, I'd suggest


Hidden cache (extradimensional space for gold) (2nd level)
Dull the Glitter (one valuable object is considered undesirable to creatures other than you for a set time) (2nd-3rd level?)
Shape Gold (as stone shape but reforming gold as you see fit) (1st-2nd level?)
Detect Gold (pretty obvious) (0-1st level?)

Magicyop
2010-10-07, 10:39 AM
That's a lot of D6's to roll for Summon Money VII.

The idea for when you get that many d6's is to just roll one and multiply by 125.


Hmmm... for additional dreams of wealth, I'd suggest


Hidden cache (extradimensional space for gold) (2nd level)
Dull the Glitter (one valuable object is considered undesirable to creatures other than you for a set time) (2nd-3rd level?)
Shape Gold (as stone shape but reforming gold as you see fit) (1st-2nd level?)
Detect Gold (pretty obvious) (0-1st level?)

All fantastic ideas. I'll try to find a way to implement them, thank you very much!

togapika
2010-10-07, 11:49 AM
Why would anyone ever take the 20th level of this class?

Magicyop
2010-10-07, 11:56 AM
Why would anyone ever take the 20th level of this class?

For the ability to turn stuff into gold at will? I mean, seriously, that's nothing to sneeze at.

DracoDei
2010-10-07, 12:04 PM
Don't roll any dice for that large of numbers... just take the average.

Morph Bark
2010-10-07, 12:04 PM
Why would anyone ever take the 20th level of this class?

While you might not be able to turn it off, some people might find it a boon rather than a penalty. Or it might just offer them great roleplaying opportunities.

Personally, while I do see it as a curse, I could use it for fun characters, and compared to a lot of other capstones - official and homebrew - I'd say only the Truenamer has it beat.

Zakaroth
2010-10-07, 12:04 PM
Fun class, quite unique. Although it seems more like concept for a prestige class than a base class to me.

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-07, 02:48 PM
Hmmm... a big question that needs to be adressed. Sorry if someone else already asked this and I just missed it. :smallsigh:

The thing is, gold is a very heavy metal. A 100-pound golden statuette is smaller than a 100-pound limestone statuette. When you transmute an item/creature into an equal weight of gold, are you a)shrinking them, b)turning them into a golden alloy (such as most gold we use in modern days as pure gold is too maleable for jewelry), or c) making a very "porous" golden object?

Fable Wright
2010-10-07, 03:54 PM
That's a nice thought, but not everything you touch is going to be originally made of gold... you're going to be dripping hamburger everywhere you go... :smalleek:

So add a condition that states that the ability only works on previously-organic matter. Thus, anything that is not living that they touch becomes gold, and everything organic that they do touch does not turn to gold. Unless the alchemist takes off the gloves.

Benly
2010-10-07, 07:45 PM
So add a condition that states that the ability only works on previously-organic matter. Thus, anything that is not living that they touch becomes gold, and everything organic that they do touch does not turn to gold. Unless the alchemist takes off the gloves.

I hope the innkeeper likes his new BEEF DOOR. Also his BEEF COUNTERTOP. During the fall, leaves drift close, brush against your hand, and flop to the ground as tiny little steaks.

You frolic with a loved one through a field of ground beef and baconflowers.

Magicyop
2010-10-07, 07:59 PM
I hope the innkeeper likes his new BEEF DOOR. Also his BEEF COUNTERTOP. During the fall, leaves drift close, brush against your hand, and flop to the ground as tiny little steaks.

You frolic with a loved one through a field of ground beef and baconflowers.

Now I'm really tempted to make a parallel to the golden alchemist who transforms everything he touches into beef.

THE HUMMUS ALCHEMIST.

firemagehao
2010-10-07, 08:16 PM
Why would anyone ever take the 20th level of this class?

Lets see... have someone gather a bunch of stones. In a few minutes, you have a bunch of gold nuggets. Sell them. Repeat as desired.

Nanoblack
2010-10-08, 02:31 PM
I can see the value of the gold piece devaluing very quickly in the near future...

That being said, I think we should brainstorm for new dream of wealth abilities. The list is kind of lacking mid-level abilities.

EDIT: The secret of metal ability states "any object or creature turned to gold possesses this property". How, if the golden touch ability say it functions like flesh to stone, are the creatures supposed to take advantage of the increased AC and saves?

Magicyop
2010-10-08, 04:12 PM
I can see the value of the gold piece devaluing very quickly in the near future...

That being said, I think we should brainstorm for new dream of wealth abilities. The list is kind of lacking mid-level abilities.

EDIT: The secret of metal ability states "any object or creature turned to gold possesses this property". How, if the golden touch ability say it functions like flesh to stone, are the creatures supposed to take advantage of the increased AC and saves?

Items make saves too, and armor can easily be turned to gold.

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-08, 05:53 PM
Because it went completely ignored the first time, let me point this out again.

Not all metal weighs the same.
When you transform a certain weight of copper into an equal weight of gold, you end up with significantly less metal. What is happening here?
Is the metal getting less dense (meaning that it's practically unusable for anything)?
If the item getting smaller (also likely making an object unusable and requiring tables for how many size categories it would shrink for each substance)?
Is the resultant metal some sort of gold alloy mixed with stronger but less valuable metals like what we use for jewelry nowadays (which would reduce the value of the "gold" per pound to something like 30 gp/lb)?


What's going on? This issue is pretty central to the functioning of the class and needs to be addressed.

Benly
2010-10-08, 06:09 PM
Not all metal weighs the same.
When you transform a certain weight of copper into an equal weight of gold, you end up with significantly less metal. What is happening here?

Magic is happening!

Okay, for a more serious semi-fix, what's important when you transform something into gold is not the actual weight of the gold you get but the GP value thereof. GP value, in the D&D world, is an actual measurable physical property - manipulating the diamond market doesn't make Raise Dead any cheaper to cast. :smallsmile: However, it is also a property that can be manipulated by changing the craftsmanship of the materials at hand (for example, Craft: Gemcutting can turn 50 GP of uncut onyx into 150 GP of cut onyx, or cut onyx into finely-cut onyx, and so on until your DM punches you.)

So when you turn a worked object into gold, you turn it into a golden object of GP value matching X weight of gold while still preserving its features to the greatest possible extent. If you turn a big block of copper into gold, it turns into a smaller block of gold, because its form contains none of its value.

"But wait!", you didn't say but I will respond to anyway, "In that case, his power is physically inconsistent!" To which I, unsolicited, reply that it is in fact consistent. The Golden Alchemist is less concerned with physical gold as a metal than as an iconic symbol of wealth - his Astral-Mart powers have nothing to do with literal gold, Summon Money doesn't create gold for the first few iterations, and his Secrets change gold's physical properties entirely without making it any less "gold" or changing its value. His power is, then, being consistent in turning a certain quantity of non-wealth into a predictable quantity of wealth.

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-08, 07:34 PM
If that's so then if you want your secrets of metal to make you superior armor/weaponry, you need to buy (or find) equipment one size category larger than yourself. :smallconfused:

Sounds like a bit of a headache. Also, small adepts will be much more common than medium ones as medium-sized equipment tends to show up more often than large-sized equivalents.

Benly
2010-10-08, 08:05 PM
If that's so then if you want your secrets of metal to make you superior armor/weaponry, you need to buy (or find) equipment one size category larger than yourself. :smallconfused:


Not at all. It turns into a larger volume of gold with less weight than that volume of normal gold and the same GP value as that weight. It is, shall we say, "expanded gold" which, when melted, returns to the normal size.

You need to understand that D&D monetary values and mystic alchemy are driven more by bizarre magic than real-world economics. :smallwink:

Magicyop
2010-10-08, 08:18 PM
Not at all. It turns into a larger volume of gold with less weight than that volume of normal gold and the same GP value as that weight. It is, shall we say, "expanded gold" which, when melted, returns to the normal size.

You need to understand that D&D monetary values and mystic alchemy are driven more by bizarre magic than real-world economics. :smallwink:

Benly is basically correct. 1 pound of *stuff*, no matter how much gold it converts to, is worth 10 gold when it converts to gold. It would be overly complex to make the class feature something like "One pound of anything converts to being two pounds of gold, where every pound of gold is worth 5 gp!" or something stupid to that effect. The general worth of the golden object, for the purposes of the class feature, can be easily defined by the original weight of the object.

Fable Wright
2010-10-08, 10:42 PM
I hope the innkeeper likes his new BEEF DOOR. Also his BEEF COUNTERTOP. During the fall, leaves drift close, brush against your hand, and flop to the ground as tiny little steaks.

You frolic with a loved one through a field of ground beef and baconflowers.

Any creature of the humanoid type, then. :smallannoyed:

Benly
2010-10-09, 01:00 AM
Any creature of the humanoid type, then. :smallannoyed:

"It's okay, little girl. Mr. Woofers is in a better place now. Specifically, my Bag of Holding, and later on a pawn shop."

Wandiya
2010-10-09, 06:23 AM
Whats to stop someone using astral mart to purchase an item then turning it into gold then reselling it for more money? Or asking for a tour of a bank vault then turning the gold into an item? Do golden scrolls/wands/staffs ect still work?

DracoDei
2010-10-09, 12:16 PM
manipulating the diamond market doesn't make Raise Dead any cheaper to cast.

I just wanted to note that in my games if someone struck a huge load of diamonds and the price dropped, Raise Dead WOULD get cheaper to cast...

Lix Lorn
2010-10-23, 10:12 AM
I just wanted to note that in my games if someone struck a huge load of diamonds and the price dropped, Raise Dead WOULD get cheaper to cast...
I am now imagining a campaign set in a country with so many diamond mines, the MIDDLE classes can afford Raise Dead regularly.

Like the class- but I can't imagine actually taking 20th level. :/

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-23, 10:38 AM
If you take the 20th level of this class can you still use magic items? Or does golding them make them nonfunctional?

If you can still use them then just buy a ring of telekinesis and you dont have to worry about having to not touch stuff.

Lix Lorn
2010-10-23, 10:39 AM
No sex.
Not taking 20th level. XD

Magicyop
2010-10-23, 11:07 AM
If you take the 20th level of this class can you still use magic items? Or does golding them make them nonfunctional?

If you can still use them then just buy a ring of telekinesis and you dont have to worry about having to not touch stuff.

Magic Items still function when turned into gold, in fact, due to Dream of Metal, it's basically a net bonus. But yes, human contact doesn't work.

The major curse of this would be that allies can't use helpful touch spells on you...

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-23, 11:09 AM
No sex.
Not taking 20th level. XD

i'm sure there's a spell in the BoEF that can sort that for you.

Morph Bark
2010-10-23, 11:20 AM
i'm sure there's a spell in the BoEF that can sort that for you.

"What happens when a Golden Alchemist mommy and a Golden alchemist daddy love each other very much?" :smallamused:

Magicyop
2010-10-23, 11:41 AM
"What happens when a Golden Alchemist mommy and a Golden alchemist daddy love each other very much?" :smallamused:

They gain a profitable amount of gold pieces? :smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2010-10-23, 12:25 PM
That's horrible. XD
(takes first 19 levels of this class)

Kallisti
2010-10-23, 08:49 PM
...Worth More Dead offers no saving throw?!:smalleek:

Save or Die abilities are fine. No Save, Just Die abilities...sure, SR applies, but still, it seems...very, very abusable.

Magicyop
2010-10-23, 09:12 PM
...Worth More Dead offers no saving throw?!:smalleek:

Save or Die abilities are fine. No Save, Just Die abilities...sure, SR applies, but still, it seems...very, very abusable.

I meant to add a health limit. It's like Power Word Kill or Microcosm, similar 9th level spell abilities which allow no save.

Cipher Stars
2010-10-24, 10:06 AM
I. Love. This. Class.

I will must surely use it the next time I play D&D. :smallbiggrin: I already stole some of the moves and idea to create a Play By Post character for another forum, sorry if you dissaprove.

And an Upgrade to that Coin Swarm (copied straight from my pbp character sheet):

Coin Golem: using a pile of coins, you can animate the mass to take the form of a Golem composed of Coins. ( http://www.goodman-games.com/images/artsto..._golemlarge.jpg (http://www.goodman-games.com/images/artstore/coin_golemlarge.jpg) ) It can regenerate if you add more coins to its mass. Otherwise it will be destroyed if the coin with a special mark on the back of its head is destroyed. Being gold of Ougon's creation, it is under the Secrets of Metal effects as well.

Magicyop
2010-10-24, 04:32 PM
I. Love. This. Class.

I will must surely use it the next time I play D&D. :smallbiggrin: I already stole some of the moves and idea to create a Play By Post character for another forum, sorry if you dissaprove.

And an Upgrade to that Coin Swarm (copied straight from my pbp character sheet):

Coin Golem: using a pile of coins, you can animate the mass to take the form of a Golem composed of Coins. ( http://www.goodman-games.com/images/artsto..._golemlarge.jpg (http://www.goodman-games.com/images/artstore/coin_golemlarge.jpg) ) It can regenerate if you add more coins to its mass. Otherwise it will be destroyed if the coin with a special mark on the back of its head is destroyed. Being gold of Ougon's creation, it is under the Secrets of Metal effects as well.

Well, thank you, that's very flattering. Coin Golem is a very interesting ability, would you mind if I incorporated a revised version of it into the class?

Cipher Stars
2010-10-25, 03:26 AM
Well, thank you, that's very flattering. Coin Golem is a very interesting ability, would you mind if I incorporated a revised version of it into the class?

Go ahead, thats why I showed it. :smallbiggrin:

Igneel
2010-10-28, 03:58 PM
Looking over this class reminds me of the days where I thought it was fun to have my lvl 100 Persian use Pay Day along with holding a Amulet Coin to gain extra money per battle.... Childhood memories aside...

We definitely need to come up with more "Dream of Wealth" abilities to continue with the 'Win of Internet' going here. Some suggestions that I thought up of the top of my head {feel free to edit/use however you see fit}

*Hoard Gullet [Dragon Magic pg 68]: Bag of holding inside of you to store your gold. Disgusting yes, but I've heard of misers that have gone as far as devouring their riches to keep thieves from stealing it.
*Bonded to Riches [Homebrew]: I can't find what I'm going to be refrencing to, but I once found an article in Wizards where some particularly greedy dragons sometimes die and bond with their hoard. The particular example they used was a dragon that bonded to his treasure, and whenever adventurers came around the treasure would take up the shape of the dragon, using gems for eyes, swords for claws, etc. Maybe this could become some kind of a Lich is to Wizards template?
*Weapon of Midas [Homebrew]: Channel Hand of Midas through weapon you wield to possibly turn enemy that you hit into a statue?
*Golden Transformation [Homebrew]: Take something like the Green Star Adept [Complete Arcane PrC pg 41] or Iron Skin spell and change it so that you can temporarily transform into a golden version of yourself?

Magicyop
2010-11-06, 10:59 AM
Some sort of dimensional storage space has been suggested by multiple people, so I guess I have to put it in now don't I ::smallwink:

The rest are very nice, but what do you mean by Bonded to Riches? I'm not sure I understand. Like, the alchemist can't die while the gold is there?

Morph Bark
2010-11-06, 11:47 AM
Some sort of dimensional storage space has been suggested by multiple people, so I guess I have to put it in now don't I ::smallwink:

That reminds me, I never got around to creating my Pocket Master PrC.

I should get onto that.

Igneel
2010-11-06, 12:09 PM
Some sort of dimensional storage space has been suggested by multiple people, so I guess I have to put it in now don't I ::smallwink:

The rest are very nice, but what do you mean by Bonded to Riches? I'm not sure I understand. Like, the alchemist can't die while the gold is there?

I'm not sure if it should be a Dream of Wealth ability, but basically as long as he's with a amount of treasure (volume of coins=body?) your body could meld into the treasure and re-emerge from any amount of it when needed (sorta like a anti-death/way to be transported/etc). Still haven't found that darned reference (I do believe it was a Forgotten Realms dungeon-boss) but I do remember that the dragon's body assimilated into its hoard and could sense anything around the treasure like each coin had Blindsense, and could form its body out of coins/weapons in the treasure.

Kallisti
2010-11-06, 01:07 PM
So, I notice that the Dream of Wealth abilities have no listed duration? Are they intended to be permanent effects?

Magicyop
2010-11-06, 01:52 PM
So, I notice that the Dream of Wealth abilities have no listed duration? Are they intended to be permanent effects?

Most of them are instantaneous actions, things that you do rather than buffs and the like. A couple of them ARE buffs (Golden Transformation, Empty Bag) and thus have durations described in their effects.

Ascension
2010-11-09, 03:52 PM
On the whole "capstone = no sex" issue, I'm sure at that level any self-respecting Golden Alchemist can afford to commission a, well, finely-crafted golden construct. He could probably even get a statueized lover permanently animated, for some kind of crazy golden Pygmalion/Galatea dynamic.

Lix Lorn
2010-11-09, 03:54 PM
Not the same. XD

Magicyop
2010-11-09, 04:59 PM
Actually, as much as I'm fairly certain we're straying outside the rules with this discussion, I am going to implement a Dream of Wealth ability which allows you to keep a living creature animated as flowing gold. Not for that purpose, though. :smallamused:

Moose Man
2010-11-09, 06:23 PM
All you need is gold
Ability: Ethereal music starts playing
song: Parody to Beatles song "all you need is love"

All you need is gold...dududududu, All you need is gold...dududududu,All you need is gold, gold, gold is all you need.

Cipher Stars
2011-05-11, 07:19 AM
*Corner of shame*

Morph Bark
2011-05-11, 08:16 AM
Gold Warm seems underpowered while Worth more Dead seems overpowered.

Assuming Squared means x4 like I believe. at level Twenty that would only be eighty coins animated...

meanwhile: Worth More Dead could instantly kill anyone under 100 HP.

Squared means times itself, so at level 20, that means x20.

Cipher Stars
2011-05-11, 11:16 AM
Squared means times itself, so at level 20, that means x20.

*Corner of shame* xD ..... Thanks >_> I was naturally blonde if its any help to the shameful situation..

jojolagger
2011-05-14, 12:51 AM
Just want to make a note on solving the Hand of Midas problem.
As soon as the character realizes it's a curse, have him use Astral Mart VII to purchase a scroll of wish for 28825 gp.
Wish "That the effect of whatever I touch being turned to gold to only affect that which I touch with my left hand, from this point forward."
Weakening a curse should easily be covered by wish, the power from it is still kept, and it only cost some pocket change.

Or Just spend enough money buffing your friends Fort saves and buying re-rolls that it doesn't matter if you touch them.

Cipher Stars
2011-05-14, 01:43 AM
You have to have the spell on your spell list to use Wish I believe.
But I guess you could take a level of Sor/Wis

jojolagger
2011-05-14, 01:56 AM
You have to have the spell on your spell list to use Wish I believe.
But I guess you could take a level of Sor/Wis
Use Magic Device works on scrolls.
23 ranks and a fair bit of CHA should basically guarantee success in the casting.

Cipher Stars
2011-05-14, 06:27 AM
Very well then, I'm convinced.
I'll be sure to use that then when I play a GA.

Lix Lorn
2011-05-14, 02:07 PM
Could you not wish that 'I only turn things to gold when wanting to'? Seems simpler.

Magicyop
2011-06-20, 04:16 PM
Okay, well, I'm getting back to working on this some more, hopefully I can fix it up to the point where I'm satisfied with it.

I've added two new dream of wealth abilities, to 3rd level and 5th level, which were both very bare. I have also added a clause in the capstone ability stating that honestly, you can't overcome it. For real. If there weren't the downside I wouldn't give them the powerful petrification ability at will, and the downside makes for a more interesting character, I think. However, since who knows what types of characters may end up playing the class, I also said that you can suppress the curse by use of epic magic, and only then with your DM's permission. Ideally this will open the door for the ability to only be overcome by a quest or long research for the ability to hold back your curse.

I also fixed the formatting in a lot of places where it looked choppy, and added an image. As always, all comments are welcomed.


EDIT: Also, fixed the title. The goal was to turn lead into gold, not tin. I don't know where my mind was the day I chose that.

EDIT2: Added the Miser's Vow class feature at level 1. This class is certainly overpowered if an already powerful class can get one of these as a cohort or a fellow party member, now the Golden Alchemist can on the whole only use their money and their items for themselves.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 05:12 PM
then you might want to change the "Golden Alchemists probably can't do things by themselves. They lack the sheer power to take on most endeavors, but in a group, they can easily finance their companions. Thus, as a Golden Alchemist, having good connections is important-- but with your wealth, you may find it relatively easy to make friends..."

Magicyop
2011-06-20, 05:54 PM
then you might want to change the "Golden Alchemists probably can't do things by themselves. They lack the sheer power to take on most endeavors, but in a group, they can easily finance their companions. Thus, as a Golden Alchemist, having good connections is important-- but with your wealth, you may find it relatively easy to make friends..."

Ooh, good point... I guess I need to decide where the class should go, then. However, the will save DC is low enough that they may be able to succeed on giving away most simple things. Let me think about it. What do you all think is best? Remove the Miser's Vow feature and let them give away their gold as much as they want, or keep it so their wealth is mostly for them? Or some other mitigating factor?

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 06:20 PM
Ooh, good point... I guess I need to decide where the class should go, then. However, the will save DC is low enough that they may be able to succeed on giving away most simple things. Let me think about it. What do you all think is best? Remove the Miser's Vow feature and let them give away their gold as much as they want, or keep it so their wealth is mostly for them? Or some other mitigating factor?


Well, personally I'm never really for using Mindset as a means to offset, I mean why can't there be some Lawful Good champion of the people who tries to unravel the secrets of gold for the betterment of mankind?

I don't really see any problem with the class without it, its actually pretty weak for the most part. They'd be living off Gold Touch and bought items really.
So in fact I say step it up a bit.
Add some sort of Wishlike system of progression similar to astral mart where they use gold as payment to trigger spell effects. At level 1-4 they can buy 0-1st level effects, 5-9 they can buy 0-2nd, 10-14 they can buy 0-3rd level effects. and 15-19 they can buy 0-4th level effects. At level twenty+ they continue the pattern.

Some other combative abilities centered around gold may be useful. I have my "Bling" style on my Stylist that at first rank has a "Coin Shot" ability with which they deal 1d3 damage + Charisma modifier.

Bling:
Your outfit is very ostentatious, It may not only be revealing, but your dress is all silvers and gold. You wear more gold and precious apparel then most kings or queens. +2 Craft of choice, Coin Shot at will (Make a ranged attack using charisma rather then dex with a coin dealing 1 +cha mod damage, coins are not retrievable on a hit or can perform cantrip effects relating to Coin or Wealth, such as calling a coin to you from across the table. Alternatively, Coin Shot can fire multiple coins for 1 damage each to a maximum of Cha mod x character level.)
Maybe some scaled/modified progression similar could be called for.

Magicyop
2011-06-20, 06:26 PM
Well, personally I'm never really for using Mindset as a means to offset, I mean why can't there be some Lawful Good champion of the people who tries to unravel the secrets of gold for the betterment of mankind?

I don't really see any problem with the class without it, its actually pretty weak for the most part. They'd be living off Gold Touch and bought items really.
So in fact I say step it up a bit.
Add some sort of Wishlike system of progression similar to astral mart where they use gold as payment to trigger spell effects. At level 1-4 they can buy 0-1st level effects, 5-9 they can buy 0-2nd, 10-14 they can buy 0-3rd level effects. and 15-19 they can buy 0-4th level effects. At level twenty+ they continue the pattern.

Some other combative abilities centered around gold may be useful. I have my "Bling" style on my Stylist that at first rank has a "Coin Shot" ability with which they deal 1d3 damage + Charisma modifier.

Maybe some scaled/modified progression similar could be called for.

Well, I see your point. I've removed the Miser's Vow class feature. However, I think that while the idea is interesting, it is unnecessary to allow them to buy spell effects. That would grant this class insane versatility. Besides, when they're rolling in cash enough, they should be able to buy magic items to suit most of their needs. Of course, that isn't without its limits-- in general, magic item shops don't carry magical artifacts with the power to destroy the world, and Astral Mart has limits for a reason. But nonetheless, many spell effects should be reproducible by buying an appropriate magic item.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 06:34 PM
Well, I see your point. I've removed the Miser's Vow class feature. However, I think that while the idea is interesting, it is unnecessary to allow them to buy spell effects. That would grant this class insane versatility. Besides, when they're rolling in cash enough, they should be able to buy magic items to suit most of their needs. Of course, that isn't without its limits-- in general, magic item shops don't carry magical artifacts with the power to destroy the world, and Astral Mart has limits for a reason. But nonetheless, many spell effects should be reproducible by buying an appropriate magic item.


Yes, but its hardly breaking. Its a slow progression toping at only 5th level spells at level twenty.
You could even have a limit on how often you can buy spells similar if not identical to a low spells per day. It would make the class almost infinitely more playable, especially since then you wont have to rely on teammates to save you rear in ever fight.

jojolagger
2011-06-20, 07:23 PM
Hey, why not just use astral mart to buy wands/staffs of X?

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 07:39 PM
Hey, why not just use astral mart to buy wands/staffs of X?

That'd take time which you probably wont have as a you are moments from being crushed by a boulder or something.

Magicyop
2011-06-20, 07:48 PM
Yes, but its hardly breaking. Its a slow progression toping at only 5th level spells at level twenty.
You could even have a limit on how often you can buy spells similar if not identical to a low spells per day. It would make the class almost infinitely more playable, especially since then you wont have to rely on teammates to save you rear in ever fight.


Hey, why not just use astral mart to buy wands/staffs of X?

My thoughts exactly. Really, all that would be needed beyond that would be an ability that let you buy a wand and use it in the same action, but that might make the Golden Alchemist too powerful.

EDIT:

That'd take time which you probably wont have as a you are moments from being crushed by a boulder or something.

Yes, but such if you want fast reactions like that, you should probably either use one of your Dream of Gold abilities, or simply plan ahead and buy some protective wands beforehand. Sure, it requires a little more forethought than a blaster class, but it isn't a blaster class, so I'm okay with it being a little bit different.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 07:56 PM
My thoughts exactly. Really, all that would be needed beyond that would be an ability that let you buy a wand and use it in the same action, but that might make the Golden Alchemist too powerful.

EDIT:


Yes, but such if you want fast reactions like that, you should probably either use one of your Dream of Gold abilities, or simply plan ahead and buy some protective wands beforehand. Sure, it requires a little more forethought than a blaster class, but it isn't a blaster class, so I'm okay with it being a little bit different.


Most the dream of wealth abilities aren't all too useful, and not often usable. 1 a day use for a couple of coppers.... 'yay'?

jojolagger
2011-06-20, 09:27 PM
Most the dream of wealth abilities aren't all too useful



Abilities with uses, at level gained.

0th
Summon money I: over one month, get 1 gold on average. When you consider that every 3 months, you get 1 month of an average mans pay.
Glitter like Gold: About equal to continual flame, which creates 110 gp valued objects out of sticks.
If Money Could Speak: Hit man Attacked you? Want to know how hired him. Someone have more money than they should? Want to know where they got it?
Astral Mart I: It's like getting to put some cash aside and getting to retroactively decide what to spend it on, limited to 10 gp items. Free club or Quarterstaff, no matter your situation. Create a barrier by summoning 10 gp of dirt.
Gold Grab: Chest full of gold somewhere you don't want to go? Now it's yours.
Empty Bag: Foil pickpockets and robbers.
Detect Wealth: Combine with pickpocketing friend to maximize gains. Find the thugs who have been mugging the rich members of the upper class.

1st
Summon Money II: in 1 week, make 1 gold and 2 silver. Almost double what the working man gets, without lifting a finger.
Astral Mart II: As Astral Mart I, but now almost all mundane items, and some weaker Magic items, including 1st level spells in the form of scrolls.
Allure of Gold: Save or suck, Weak, but works very nicly with detect wealth and a Pickpocketing friend.
Miser's Vault: Weak Version of Bag of Holding.
Worthwhile Strike: Surprise Save or die on an attack.

2nd
Summon Money III: in one week, make just under 5 gold, 7 weeks work for the common man.
Astral Mart III: anything astral mart I could get is now free, oth level wands and 3rd level scrolls available.
Golden Transformation: Makes you hard to kill for a short amount of time, gives hardness with the right secret of metal.
Paycure: (RAI; can heal you to full HP in one go/ RAW; Can heal you well beyond full HP.)
Gold Drops: 60 pounds of water is a fair bit. Ruin the town well so as to sell water at a premium.

3rd
Summon Money IV: in one week, Make 24 gold and 5 silver, 8 months wage for a common man.
Astral Mart IV: Anything II gets you is now free, 4th level scrolls and 1st level wands avilable.
Dull the Glitter: save can easily be 27 taking 10, Even those with good will saves will likely fail if level equivalent. Save is even more insane at higher levels. Use on the phylactery so the lich doesn't mind if you take it.
Wealth Linked: Use to see where portals lead, find where people or groups store their cash.

4th
Summon Money V: Every 2 months, make 1000 gp, enough gold to buy a house.
Astral Mart V: anything III could get is now free, 2nd level wands and 9th level scrolls available.
Animate Gold Swarm: 7d4 damage swarm, with fast damage gains (20d4 at level 20)
Improved Paycure: as paycure, but 5 times as much healing, and works on allies. If RAW, Give the Fighter 1000 hp for a measly 1000 gp.
Gold Smoke: Instantaneous wall of gold, which you can shape however you please.

5th
Summon Money VI: As V, but 5000 gp and grand house.
Astral Mart VI: IV stuff now free, Many medium wondrous items, Level 3 wands.
Cash Weapon: Like throwing knives, but throw 15, and they get +5 attack and +10 Damage, with steady progression into epic levels
Buyer Omniscience: Learn the exact make up of trade in a city, locate the black market with ease, Find out about big deals up to 1 day in advance.

6th
Summon Money VII: 25,000 gp every 2 months.
Astral Mart VII: Anything V could get now free (including grand house), just about every magic item now available.
Worth More Dead: Insta kill enemy with less than X Hp, X can easily be 100 by this level. With CHA boosting, X gets really high.
Glory to the Gold: Save or be totally owned.


and not often usable. 1 a day use for a couple of coppers.... 'yay'?
I agree here. Maybe have uses be 2->4->6->unlimited?

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 09:36 PM
I agree here. Maybe have uses be 2->4->6->unlimited?

Yea I know the abilities.


and/or maybe each can be used Cha mod times? Maybe start with Two DoW abilities, and +two again at every DoW level rather then 1.
Being able to summon 1d6 copper pieces 5 times a day at level 1 isn't a gamebreaker, or even hurter really. (with a +5 cha mod)

Magicyop
2011-06-20, 09:51 PM
Yea I know the abilities.


and/or maybe each can be used Cha mod times? Maybe start with Two DoW abilities, and +two again at every DoW level rather then 1.
Being able to summon 1d6 copper pieces 5 times a day at level 1 isn't a gamebreaker, or even hurter really. (with a +5 cha mod)

He wasn't restating them, he was just giving examples of some of their uses.

No, but some of the higher level abilities would be highly overpowered with a lot of uses. I'm thinking maybe go with a progression of 1->2->4->6->Unlimited

And yes, Summon Money I is rather underwhelming. Don't evaluate the power level of all the abilities just from the one. They are mainly intended for utility, the major power of the class is the fact that it gets a save-or-lose touch attack at level 4.

jojolagger
2011-06-20, 09:56 PM
and/or maybe each can be used Cha mod times?

Assuming 12th level, CHA 24, 8 uses of Astral Mart V gives 8000 gp of free stuff daily. 1/11 of your WBL every day is insanely powerful.


Maybe start with Two DoW abilities, and +two again at every DoW level rather then 1.
Seems like a good idea.


Being able to summon 1d6 copper pieces 5 times a day at level 1 isn't a gamebreaker, or even hurter really. (with a +5 cha mod)
That's almost twice the wage of a common man daily. Not gamebreaker, but almost nothing is at that level.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-20, 09:57 PM
... don't you have to pay for items through Astral Mart -_-?

Eh, didn't notice the mini reviews on the abilities *reads*

Magicyop
2011-06-21, 02:07 PM
... don't you have to pay for items through Astral Mart -_-?

Eh, didn't notice the mini reviews on the abilities *reads*

He meant the discount. Each Astral Mart gives a discount.


In other news, I've just added an Epic Progression to the original post, so you will all have to let me know what you think. Thanks!

Lix Lorn
2011-06-21, 02:36 PM
Well, you could really use some more epic bonus feats. Some standard feats might be good too; what do you spend feats on as a Golden alchemist?

Also, I REALLY think there should be a way around hand of midas. An ACF maybe that just doesn't get it.

Magicyop
2011-06-21, 02:38 PM
Well, you could really use some more epic bonus feats. Some standard feats might be good too; what do you spend feats on as a Golden alchemist?

Also, I REALLY think there should be a way around hand of midas. An ACF maybe that just doesn't get it.


In terms of the feats, that's a good idea, there are a lot of ways I could make some feats for this class.

The idea of an ACF is also a good one. Perhaps I can make it so when you get to level 20, you get some kind of Gold Mastery class feature that allows you to make a choice between two features, one being Hand of Midas, and one being something else.

Thanks for your feedback!

Lix Lorn
2011-06-21, 02:53 PM
Glad to help!
Before there wasn't an epic progression, I was just gonna stop at level 19, but now I need some way to be able to have the secret fun times. :smalltongue:

Benly
2011-06-21, 03:23 PM
Summon Money really is underwhelming. Hey, kids! Remember the last time you used Perform to gain money? What if I told you you could get it by spending an extremely limited class feature slot instead of a skill point per level?

Lix Lorn
2011-06-21, 03:35 PM
Maybe the FIRST one is, yes.

Benly
2011-06-21, 03:53 PM
Maybe the FIRST one is, yes.

It doesn't outpace a decent Perform check until the level 9 or 12 version or so.

Magicyop
2011-06-21, 04:16 PM
It doesn't outpace a decent Perform check until the level 9 or 12 version or so.

Yet the ability to summon money out of nowhere has its own utility. Perform doesn't just produce money, you need the right set of circumstances for it to work.

Further, the lower level ones eventually become at will, and a perform check takes time.

In any case, Summon Money I is only supposed to be a parlor trick, summoning spare change. Like finding a couple dollars stuffed in the couch.

However, there is apparently overwhelming support for Summon Money being more. Maybe I'll just double all amounts.


In terms of the second capstone ability, I'm thinking some sort of permanent Golden Transformation, complete the metamorphosis into a creature of flowing gold, or something that lets you manipulate gold at will (a.k.a., sculpt it and move it telepathically, maybe even automatically.)


I'm also struggling a bit to think of some feats, so any ideas are welcomed.

jojolagger
2011-06-21, 04:18 PM
Dream of Wealth: At 21st level, and every 3 levels afterwards, you may choose to either grant one of your Dream of Wealth abilities an extra use (becoming at-will when you gain 6 uses as usual) or choose a new Dream of Wealth ability of any level. You have as many uses of that dream of wealth ability as you did of any other dream of that level.

Give one ability one more use? why not just give another dream of wealth ability and give all one more use?



Bonus Feat: At 22nd level, and every 3 levels afterwards, you gain a bonus epic feat from this list:
Additional Magic Item Space (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#additionalMagicItemSpace), Blinding Speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#blindingSpeed), Epic Skill Focus (Appraise, Diplomacy) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSkillFocus), Epic Spell Penetration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellPenetration), Extended Life Span (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan), Great Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greatCharisma), Great Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greatIntelligence).
That's a really short list. Surely some other feats can be added.
(augmented alchemy, armor skin, Damage reduction, Epic leadership, Legendary Commander, Polyglot, Superior initiative)



Secret of Starmetal: Further, all extraplanar creatures who touch your gold take 1d6 untyped damage each round and must make a DC 10 Fortitude Save or be instantly killed and turned to ash.

Secret of Stygian Ice: Further, at your command, the gold will burn with cold, and cause those touching it to take 1d6 cold damage and 2 WIS damage each round they are in contact with it or touch it. Even when both these effects are off, your gold always feels rather cold to the touch.
For Both, does damage from multiple sources stack.
What action is it to make Stygian Gold burn cold.

Serren +Starmetal +Stygian + Cash Weapon looks like a mega nuke.


Well, this was my first base class. As you can tell, I'm still working on many aspects of it. Please give your honest opinion! Thanks very much for reading. If you have any suggestions for more Dream of Wealth abilities, it'd be great if you could post them!

Needs Feats, Maybe a dream of wealth version of Extra spell. A Feat That adds uses of Dreams of wealth (that can be taken a very limited number of times, Maybe just once).

Benly
2011-06-21, 04:19 PM
In any case, Summon Money I is only supposed to be a parlor trick, summoning spare change. Like finding a couple dollars stuffed in the couch.


If level 0 Dreams of Wealth are supposed to be cantrip-equivalents, then getting one of them once per day shouldn't be the only thing you get at first level.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-21, 04:43 PM
In terms of the second capstone ability, I'm thinking some sort of permanent Golden Transformation, complete the metamorphosis into a creature of flowing gold, or something that lets you manipulate gold at will (a.k.a., sculpt it and move it telepathically, maybe even automatically.)

Howz about both at once? A golden paragon, or a Gold at will creator. they seem about equal if ya think about it... ones just more flashy, other kills at will and is set for wealth for the rest of its life.

Magicyop
2011-06-22, 08:51 PM
Okay, I've made it so that at first level, you get two 0th level dreams, both at 2/day. The rest of the dream progression is as it was before. I've also made it so that your choice in the epic progression allows you to increase the uses of all of your dreams of wealth rather than just one.

Finally, I have added five feats, and I have plans for more.

I also am working on re-doing the capstone such that you get a choice, and intend to make some of the other changes you all will suggested, as soon as I get a chance.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-22, 09:05 PM
Yea I noticed the feats. 2 at 2/day ? hm. nicer.
btw. Where is the use in Summon Coin when Turn To gold can do what it does, several times better? I guess its still a nice option.
oh and remember ages ago you said you wanted to do a Coin Golem dream of wealth?

What I've been doing as I play, It didn't read as intended it looked like but I think it should be if it isn't. You take the Dream of Wealth, Then the next time you take dream of wealth you pick another, You gain that one and +1 to previous dreams of wealth.


Is it just me or did Paycure get worse? :smallfrown:

Lix Lorn
2011-06-22, 09:46 PM
Question, and I made a Dream of Wealth if you're interested.
Are copper pieces smaller or larger than gold pieces? IE, what happens if you turn a copper or silver piece to gold?

Lucky Coin
Duration: 1 hour/level
The bearer of a lucky coin gets a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws.

jojolagger
2011-06-22, 09:57 PM
I'm going to say to make Summon money significantly better.

Most Astral markets of equal level give more as a discount than Summon money gives at maximum, and Astral mark can get useful gear.

I mean, this class obsesses over gold, why do you start at copper coins?

Magicyop
2011-06-22, 10:04 PM
Yea I noticed the feats. 2 at 2/day ? hm. nicer.
btw. Where is the use in Summon Coin when Turn To gold can do what it does, several times better? I guess its still a nice option.
oh and remember ages ago you said you wanted to do a Coin Golem dream of wealth?

What I've been doing as I play, It didn't read as intended it looked like but I think it should be if it isn't. You take the Dream of Wealth, Then the next time you take dream of wealth you pick another, You gain that one and +1 to previous dreams of wealth.


Is it just me or did Paycure get worse? :smallfrown:

In that Turn to Gold requires that you actually do trading on the market, and Summon Money just conjures it out of thin air? Eh, maybe I should just improve Summon Money a little bit.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking in the second part. No, you don't have the same number of uses for all your dreams of wealth. How it works is this. You start out with 2 0th level dreams, both 2/day. When you gain 1st level dreams, you gain 1 1st level dream, usable 1/day, and your 0th levels are usable 3/day. When you gain 2nd level dreams, you gain 1 2nd level dream, usable 1/day, your 1st level dream is usable 2/day, and your 0th levels are usable 4/day. It will always be a ladder, with the lower level dreams having the most uses and the higher level ones having less uses. If you don't go into epic, you should only ever get one daily use of your 6th level dream.

And yes, paycure got a little worse. And it may still be too powerful. As it is, I think 10 gp for paycure and 5 gp for improved paycure is fair, that's enough that you can still heal yourself to full, but it actually costs you a somewhat reasonable amount. I don't want to make it too weak, though, I just don't want it to be the be-all end-all of healing.



Question, and I made a Dream of Wealth if you're interested.
Are copper pieces smaller or larger than gold pieces? IE, what happens if you turn a copper or silver piece to gold?

Lucky Coin
Duration: 1 hour/level
The bearer of a lucky coin gets a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Ooh, interesting question. I imagine most stores wouldn't accept it, since it would be seen as a forgery, assuming that gold, silver, and copper pieces have different markings/sizes/shapes in the first place. Much in the vein of, "Why is this quarter made of copper?" Let me think about that.


I like lucky coin, and will probably incorporate it! It's a fun idea. But I'm thinking I'll change it from a resistance bonus to a luck bonus (since that bonus type exists for a reason :smalltongue:) and have it apply to a variety of things, though I'll keep it as just a +1 bonus. Thanks!

Will work on incorporating the new changes tomorrow.

SPoD
2011-06-23, 01:04 AM
In that Turn to Gold requires that you actually do trading on the market,

Not if you're using Astral Mart; that just says the gold disappears from your bag. It doesn't say that the gold needs to be in coin form.

The real problem I have with this class can be summed up with the following train of thought I had while I was reading it:

This would be awesome in a gestalt game, where you could overcome the weak offensive options with another class.
How would a DM rule if I wanted to start with this class at a high level? It would make no sense for me to have the same starting wealth as everyone else, since I can turn rocks to gold.
Well, if I ever try to play it and the DM tells me to start with the same wealth as everyone else, I'll just sit and turn rocks to gold for a few days before starting.
Wait--what reason does this guy have to go adventuring again? He can just sit and turn rocks to gold!

And therein lays the problem. This class can acquire any and every magic item in the game up to 100k at will, and whatever he can't pull out of thin air, he can just waste a few days saving up for. And then, he can buy another copy of every magic item in the game for each of his friends. This class is unusable in a high-level game as it is written unless the game is called, "Sit Around and Collect Magic Items."

Player 1: Let's go fight the giants!
Golden Alchemist: If you can wait a week, I can turn these boulders into gold and then use my Astral Mart VI to buy +5 flaming giantbane weapons for everyone.
Player 1: Oh, OK.
Golden Alchemist: Or, we could forget the giants and I could buy six +3 stat-raising tomes for each of us. And then a big castle. And then an army, and give the army +5 flaming giantbane weapons, and THEY can go fight the giants.
Player 1: You know what? Yeah. Let's do that.

Even if the DM insisted that no one accepted gold in any form other than coinage (which would strain credibility), a magic item that casts Fabricate can mint 90 cubic feet of coins per casting. And a magic item that bumps your Craft (coinage) skill check by +30 costs 90,000 gp.

Basically, this class forces the DM to adopt a campaign style where he can't allow the players any extra time to sit around, or else they will eventually own every magic item in existence. It doesn't even require any tricky optimization to achieve that, either; you just need to have the class at all.

Benly
2011-06-23, 01:08 AM
Wait--what reason does this guy have to go adventuring again? He can just sit and turn rocks to gold!


While the balance concern of "they have whatever items they want" is legitimate given how powerful magic items are in 3E, I've seriously never been in a campaign where "there is money over that way" was the only motivator driving the PCs. It's a factor, but I've never seen it be the only one.

SPoD
2011-06-23, 01:13 AM
While the balance concern of "they have whatever items they want" is legitimate given how powerful magic items are in 3E, I've seriously never been in a campaign where "there is money over that way" was the only motivator driving the PCs. It's a factor, but I've never seen it be the only one.

I understand, but I'm saying that with infinite wealth comes the ability to achieve whatever other goals you might have. You can simply pay someone else to do them. I realize that would make a crappy adventure, but that's my point. It strains suspension of disbelief that this guy would go out and risk his life delving into a dungeon when he could sit at home and pay people to do it. And that makes it a bad idea for a class in a game about delving into dungeons.

It just seems like a bad idea to give players the temptation that they could break the game whenever they wanted. Sure, they might really want to rid the world of the evil demon lord Adissodgijp, but once they realize that they can just buy a dozen stone golems to join them (only 90,000 each!), they might try to do it.

EDIT: I would also point out that you having never seen it does not mean that such games cannot exist. If anything, I would argue that the temptation of this class will create games like that as players decide they'd rather play with their toys than complete a quest.

Benly
2011-06-23, 02:15 AM
EDIT: I would also point out that you having never seen it does not mean that such games cannot exist. If anything, I would argue that the temptation of this class will create games like that as players decide they'd rather play with their toys than complete a quest.

The "toys" that D&D players buy are the kind that they use to complete quests. Once you buy all those +3 skilltomes and Swords of Buttkicking, what are you going to do with them except adventure? :smallsmile:

SPoD
2011-06-23, 02:47 AM
The "toys" that D&D players buy are the kind that they use to complete quests. Once you buy all those +3 skilltomes and Swords of Buttkicking, what are you going to do with them except adventure? :smallsmile:

The toys I meant are magically-equipped armies, flying castles, and platoons of iron golems. You don't "adventure" with them, you simply park above the villain's lair and carpet bomb it. I guess if someone wants to play that game, they can.

If a wizard is Tier 1 because it's assumed that with enough time, they can do anything, then so is this class. They can generate the money to buy any tool needed to win spontaneously, including as many scrolls of 9th level spells as are needed starting at 12th level. Is there any dungeon appropriate for 12th level characters that a few castings of elemental swarm can't crush? If so, good thing you have a few scrolls of shapechange on hand.

EDIT: Every long-term cheesy trick the wizard can do, this class can do better by using UMD and/or adding a wizard cohort, because they don't have to worry about wealth-by-level. Generally speaking, most people want fewer classes that can break the game at will, not new ones.

Magicyop
2011-06-23, 06:32 AM
-snip-

This is a serious problem. I see what you're saying and I agree wholeheartedly. The question is, do you have any ideas to fix this? I had previously inserted a class feature early in the class which made it so that the Golden Alchemist had to make a will save to part with any wealth or valuable items that were not part of a direct barter or sale. The will save mounted depending on the value of the item. I'm not sure if that would help or not, but it would at least help to prevent the Golden Alchemist equipping all their friends with super-mega-awesome-make-everything-die equipment.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how to make the class work without those problems, so all suggestions would be very much welcomed.

Thank you, incidentally, for pointing out the issue.

Lix Lorn
2011-06-23, 08:39 AM
To be honest, I could look at that issue from two directions.
1) No-one WOULD do that. Sure you could drop an army on your foe, but... well, that's not any fun. Not unless you control the army...
2) SHANNARO! Lets control an army instead!

As you can see, I'm not thinking of it as a huge issue. :smalltongue:

Magicyop
2011-06-23, 10:08 AM
To be honest, I could look at that issue from two directions.
1) No-one WOULD do that. Sure you could drop an army on your foe, but... well, that's not any fun. Not unless you control the army...
2) SHANNARO! Lets control an army instead!

As you can see, I'm not thinking of it as a huge issue. :smalltongue:

Okay, yes, most players aren't munchkins, and would enjoy this class for its intended use. But the few who don't could use it to destroy a campaign and that's no fun.

And... sure. Armies are fun. But only in the right context. One time I misunderstood the purpose of a high level D&D campaign and showed up to what was intended to be rather silly, with a necromancer who had made expeditious use of Undead Leadership and Stronghold to create an army of wights and a burrowing, plane shifting, fortress made of writhing bodies and walls of force. Needless to say, that was rejected.


One thing that I'm thinking is to possible include a variant which must be checked with your DM, in which case gold created by the alchemist vanishes after a certain period of time, Leprechaun Gold style. In this case, you would have to continually keep skipping town to avoid angry mobs, etcetera, and you couldn't spend your magic-made gold on Astral Mart, unless you want extraplanar assassins coming after you. But that would very much change the flavor of the class.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-23, 02:46 PM
Okay, yes, most players aren't munchkins, and would enjoy this class for its intended use. But the few who don't could use it to destroy a campaign and that's no fun.

And... sure. Armies are fun. But only in the right context. One time I misunderstood the purpose of a high level D&D campaign and showed up to what was intended to be rather silly, with a necromancer who had made expeditious use of Undead Leadership and Stronghold to create an army of wights and a burrowing, plane shifting, fortress made of writhing bodies and walls of force. Needless to say, that was rejected.


One thing that I'm thinking is to possible include a variant which must be checked with your DM, in which case gold created by the alchemist vanishes after a certain period of time, Leprechaun Gold style. In this case, you would have to continually keep skipping town to avoid angry mobs, etcetera, and you couldn't spend your magic-made gold on Astral Mart, unless you want extraplanar assassins coming after you. But that would very much change the flavor of the class.


I thought I suggested vanishing gold ages ago. :smallamused:
Or did I just intend to and never say it... nah I'm certain I mentioned it via PM or something,

btw, this thread has been bookmarked since the day I joined the forums, which was just so I could comment here If I remember right. Then tried to post some, vanished for months, and now lookie! I'm a homebrewer as well :smallwink: Chain Reactions.
point: I'm quite glad this thread is back to life and the class being polished.

Magicyop
2011-06-23, 09:05 PM
btw, this thread has been bookmarked since the day I joined the forums, which was just so I could comment here If I remember right. Then tried to post some, vanished for months, and now lookie! I'm a homebrewer as well :smallwink: Chain Reactions.
point: I'm quite glad this thread is back to life and the class being polished.

Hey, thanks! That means a lot. It's really nice to know that it's appreciated.

I've now added one new feat that allows you to transform things back from being gold, the Lucky Coin dream of wealth (1st level dream), a slightly greater selection of epic feats, and I have made it so that for the capstone, you have the choice of accepting the hand of midas blessing/curse, or transforming your body into flowing gold (in which case you do not gain increased uses of your goldification abilities.)

Cipher Stars
2011-06-23, 09:36 PM
I can't even describe how much I like Golden Ascendancy...

How would Transmute Return interact with Hand of Midas, or Golden Ascendancy?

Magicyop
2011-06-23, 09:51 PM
I can't even describe how much I like Golden Ascendancy...

How would Transmute Return interact with Hand of Midas, or Golden Ascendancy?

Whoa... Now I'm picturing a Golden Alchemist who regrets turning themselves to gold and tries over and over again to transfigure themselves back into flesh. I imagine the DM could come up with some sufficiently awesome mutations that result from their experimentation.

In terms of Hand of Midas, the solution you create would not prevent you from turning things to gold, but it certainly could reverse terrible things that you've done. Although, I do need to add a clause stating that solution spoils after... oh, say, two days. That way you can't just stockpile it up and un-gold anything.

Cipher Stars
2011-06-23, 10:11 PM
. Although, I do need to add a clause stating that solution spoils after... oh, say, two days. That way you can't just stockpile it up and un-gold anything.

Spoiling could be Dependant on the check


How would Turn To Gold act against foes under Flesh To Stone?

Lix Lorn
2011-06-24, 08:57 AM
I'm contributing! yaaaay! :smalltongue:

Cipher Stars
2011-06-27, 07:43 AM
If they can turn things to gold, can they turn things into copper or silver?
I mean, they do Summon silver and copper pieces...
You could even allow Turn to Gold and Golden Touch to be used more times per day because they aren't gold. therefor less valuable and less game breaking.
Levels 1-5: Copper
Levels 6-10: Silver
Levels 11-20: Gold
or Levels 11-15: gold
Levels 16-20: Platnium
or: gold 11-19, Level 20: Platnium
Or best yet:
1-6: copper
7-12: Silver
13-19: Gold
20: Platnium
And each set can optionally create the previous transformations if she so chooses.

Instead of Dream of Wealth abilities being totally centered on gold, they can also be spread out to be centered on Precious Metals. it is dream of wealth after all, not dream of gold.

Name would still work perfectly if thats what your thinking, because Gold is the stereotype for precious metals.

Rogue Shadows
2011-06-27, 08:46 PM
Name would still work perfectly if thats what your thinking, because Gold is the stereotype for precious metals.

But gold is more fun...

On the Class
I will soon be running an Eberron campaign centered in Xen'drik and Stormreach.

There will be a giant or something with levels in this class serving as a boss monster.

Yes.

DracoDei
2011-06-28, 10:21 PM
It has been a while, so I don't remember everything this class does, but it has recently occurred to me that there needs to be a Theurge type PrC that allows one to combine this with Wilder (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm)... or maybe not, maybe it should just be a feat that grants you bonuses for a few rounds after you spend a lot of money very quickly(like maybe 25 GP*(ECL^2) in a single round), just as long as it somehow works in the ability/feat name found in the following spoiler
SPLURGING EUPHORIA.

Lix Lorn
2011-06-29, 10:48 AM
It has been a while, so I don't remember everything this class does, but it has recently occurred to me that there needs to be a Theurge type PrC that allows one to combine this with Wilder (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm)... or maybe not, maybe it should just be a feat that grants you bonuses for a few rounds after you spend a lot of money very quickly(like maybe 25 GP*(ECL^2) in a single round), just as long as it somehow works the ability/feat name found in the following spoiler
SPLURGING EUPHORIA.
I'm removing your talking priviliges. :smallmad:
:smallbiggrin:

Debihuman
2011-07-01, 05:59 AM
The only problem I am seeing is that Creatures do not have a hardness, only Objects have a hardness. This is why creatures such as golems do not have a hardness rating. Creatures have damage reduction. See Golden Acendancy.

Also, if you are going to use non-Core material, you should cite to it. Thinaun can be found in Complete Warrior

Debby

Magicyop
2011-07-01, 07:46 AM
It has been a while, so I don't remember everything this class does, but it has recently occurred to me that there needs to be a Theurge type PrC that allows one to combine this with Wilder (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm)... or maybe not, maybe it should just be a feat that grants you bonuses for a few rounds after you spend a lot of money very quickly(like maybe 25 GP*(ECL^2) in a single round), just as long as it somehow works the ability/feat name found in the following spoiler
SPLURGING EUPHORIA.

Bwahahahahahaha! :smalltongue:


The only problem I am seeing is that Creatures do not have a hardness, only Objects have a hardness. This is why creatures such as golems do not have a hardness rating. Creatures have damage reduction. See Golden Acendancy.

Also, if you are going to use non-Core material, you should cite to it. Thinaun can be found in Complete Warrior

Debby

Oh, I know that creatures don't typically have a hardness, it's not a trend that has been established previously. I'm giving them a hardness, and such a greater advantage than would be gained by simple DR. If you'd like the description to fit more to core trends, you can think of it as "The golden alchemist's skin is covered in a permanent layer of completely non-creature flowing gold, which has hardness, which helps to mitigate attacks against the golden alchemist."

I understand where you're coming from, I simply don't think it's all that unbalancing to give a creature hardness instead of DR, and hardness fits a little better here.

Yes, I suppose I could cite, except that I'm not actually using Thinaun. I mean, I'm referencing it, but you do not need any sort of description of Thinaun, nor of any of the other materials (Ex: Starmetal, Serren) to play the class. Secret of Thinaun is an ability of itself, it is just one based off of a non-core source.

Regardless, thanks very much for your suggestions. :smallsmile:

Salbazier
2011-07-03, 05:11 PM
Okay, I've only read part of the class and skimmed less than half of the thread so sorry if I miss something obvious.

First, It's a fun and interesting class. Second, I just made calculation and come up with this interesting bit: Gold smoke turn 5 ft square of air into gold. That's 125 ft cubic = 3539605.839 cm³. With mass density 19.3 g/cm3, that's resulted in around 403 pounds of gold ~= 4030 GP. At 12th level that's 48360 gp.

Cipher Stars
2011-07-03, 05:34 PM
Okay, I've only read part of the class and skimmed less than half of the thread so sorry if I miss something obvious.

First, It's a fun and interesting class. Second, I just made calculation and come up with this interesting bit: Gold smoke turn 5 ft square of air into gold. That's 125 ft cubic = 3539605.839 cm³. With mass density 19.3 g/cm3, that's resulted in around 403 pounds of gold ~= 4030 GP. At 12th level that's 48360 gp.

Is it cubic? I imagined it more like the Ice Wall or Iron Wall spell, creating a thin sheet. *looks* hm. so it is a solid square. :smallcool: nice.

Magicyop
2011-07-03, 08:01 PM
Okay, I've only read part of the class and skimmed less than half of the thread so sorry if I miss something obvious.

First, It's a fun and interesting class. Second, I just made calculation and come up with this interesting bit: Gold smoke turn 5 ft square of air into gold. That's 125 ft cubic = 3539605.839 cm³. With mass density 19.3 g/cm3, that's resulted in around 403 pounds of gold ~= 4030 GP. At 12th level that's 48360 gp.

Ooh... That's... a really good point. I guess that ability needs some reworking. Well, I've described that the density of the gold that the golden alchemist creates is flexible, and that the value of the gold is based off the weight of the original object. In this case, considering that you're literally turning the air into gold, it's not impossible that it could be gold which isn't very dense at all. I think maybe I could just assign a value to the gold based on how many square feet of air you transform into gold.

Salbazier
2011-07-04, 12:40 AM
So,... gold aerosol? That's ... interesting.

Somehow I just thought 'hey, a new Tier 1!' :smalltongue:

Cipher Stars
2011-07-04, 01:41 AM
Somehow I just thought 'hey, a new Tier 1!' :smalltongue:


haha... yea..... I don't see it. I see a fun class to play for role playing aspects, not for power. Mostly because I play classes for effect, not to milk anything out of them. I've been playing a GA for a month now, and I've used Turn to Gold only three times, and Golden Touch once, none of which was for money but for Secrets of Gold or to smite an evil doer (in the case of Golden Touch).

Fun role play > Power
Point:
Lol. Naw, I think maybe Tier 3.

Salbazier
2011-07-04, 06:10 AM
Yea.. That's not serious anyway. It's more a knee-jerk reaction to Astral mart thing. I realized it limited to low price item, but 'any item' made me just think of lite-but-faster artificer :smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2011-07-04, 12:04 PM
Okay, I've only read part of the class and skimmed less than half of the thread so sorry if I miss something obvious.

First, It's a fun and interesting class. Second, I just made calculation and come up with this interesting bit: Gold smoke turn 5 ft square of air into gold. That's 125 ft cubic = 3539605.839 cm³. With mass density 19.3 g/cm3, that's resulted in around 403 pounds of gold ~= 4030 GP. At 12th level that's 48360 gp.
(cries over the catgirls)

A Wizard (or other fullcaster) 1/Golden Alchemist 19 could have a chance at tier 1. They can buy MASSES of scrolls and wands and such, and then activate them.

jojolagger
2011-08-02, 04:43 AM
A Wizard (or other fullcaster) 1/Golden Alchemist 19 could have a chance at tier 1. They can buy MASSES of scrolls and wands and such, and then activate them.
Golden Alchemist's have UMD. Why use wizard 1. Golden Alchemist 20.
Get Astral Mart V up to at will using Host of dreams. Have almost any spell in existence at you're fingertips all day long. For scrolls costing over 5000 gp, use Astral mart VI and VII.
Use Astral mart VII to buy a higher than normal CL wand of Wing of Flurry.
You can get one at CL 33 within the price limit.

arachnidsGrip
2013-11-03, 09:58 PM
So, you've said the de-golding solution only last two days to prevent stockpiling.

Woundn't it be possible to submerge a container of the stuff in Quintessence? Even if there weren't any Psions around to make it, you have other methods to create it.

And if Quintessence can be solidified, I wonder if it has a market value? It would not only allow you to sell the stuff from the occasional de-golding, but to Astral-Mart it.

Hoggins
2014-08-15, 12:38 AM
A big problem that I see is that the other members of the party are going to want you to turn their equipment into super powered gold as well. If you do, then they've practically got your powers as well and if you don't they're going to be pissed at you.

A quick and dirty solution could be that your Secrets of Metal only work on things you turned and that you still own. I think that, past that, roleplaying should handle the rest of the problem with you having mountains more money than everyone else.

Scryangi
2017-04-20, 05:17 PM
First off, this is my favourite class, ever, only seconded by the Incarnum classes. Thank you for making such a fun and heartfelt class.

Second, I was wondering how Shining Ray worked now that my character is reaching his 20th level.

Effect: You may now use your Turn to Gold and Golden Touch class abilities at a range of 10 feet. (In which case, these attacks count as a ray, they require a ranged touch attack instead of a touch attack.) You are not required to use this ability when you use those class abilities, which means that if you possess the Hand of Midas class ability, you do not turn everything within 10 ft. of you to gold.

So...does this mean that you can turn everything into gold in a 10ft radius since every part of you is cursed? Could you AOE everything in a 10ft radius?

Thirdly, how would you update this class to Pathfinder? :)

Anyway, I hope this message finds you well. My merchant is living a very comfortable life with his golden golems around. Thank you so much for making this class.

Bye bye ^-^