The best manacles money can buy?

[gallagher]

hey playground! long time little chat...

i was wondering, one of my players has a pretty high escape artist check, and there is a part of my campaign that i need to be able to keep a pair of manacles placed by a justicar to stay on the character for a while

i know that it takes a full minute for them to escape, so if i keep someone watching that person the whole time, then they wont really be able to pull that off, but i was wondering if there are any ways to pump the escape artist check for them.

also, are there any better than masterwork manacles? i have heard that there are adamantine ones, but i dont know where to find them

[snoopy13a]

So basically one of your players invested lots of skill points into a relatively obscure skill. Thus, you're going to reward his investment by creating a situation where his high skill level is useless?

[Shenanigans]

Well, he did say "for a while."

Get some masterwork manacles and then give the character some heavy circumstance modifier (guards watching, ability damage, etc.) Remove the modifier when plot needs demand an escape.

[Eldariel]

Dungeonscape has Adamantine Manacles. There are also Anti-Magic Manacles and some such. Those could actually be useful.

[Esser-Z]

Is it REASONABLE (in universe) for the justicar to have such extremely good manacles? Does he normally need them?

If the answer is no, I strongly recommend revising your campaign to deal with the character's ability to escape.

[Crasical]

*raises hand*

What about for PC Justiciars? While the OP looks like he's having accusations of railroading going on, what about a PC Justiciar who's looking for the best pair of manacles that money can buy so he can bring the BBEG to justice hogtied?

I think the question is still valid, even if the OP's reasons might not be.

[Shademan]

its all about how you use them
manacle his hands and ankles. manacle them together! now hogtie him and put a torture mask on him.
good times! lets put him in a iron chest and sink him in water just to top it off.

[Skaven]

Perhaps you could replace the manacles with something that doesn't ruin his skill point investment by replacing it with something like a wand of hold person or some kind of magic barrier circle or.. whatever.

[Halae]

I remember seeing a certain set of equipment in a novel. it was essentially that you had metal bands coming out of the wall to wrap around the character's legs, stomach, chest, and head, holding his arms out to the sides and his face forward, and his hands were held down by metal mittens. I believe there was two guys looking at each other from across the room in these things.

"Can you get out?"

"Och, lad, I'm good but I'm not this good."

To be fair, they escaped. to be unfair, the first guy went into a berserk rage and ripped the bricks around him from the mortar, and then unlocked guy #2.

Something to consider at least. Antimagic adamantine full-body wraps like that would cause hellish circumstance penalties.

[FMArthur]

Hire/summon a creature with a stupidly difficult grapple modifier and pin them. Manacles are designed to be thwarted by great Escape Artist checks. But Grapple-focused monsters made by WotC don't seem to care about what is reasonable for a player to be able to escape. :smalltongue:

[Jack_Simth]

Edit: Scratch all that. Use Rope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useRope.htm):
Bind a Character

When you bind another character with a rope, any Escape Artist check that the bound character makes is opposed by your Use Rope check.

You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape.

See also: epic usages of Use Rope.
So if your Justicar is used to tying people up (say, he's an expert with Max Ranks in Use Rope, Skill Focus(Use Rope), a decent roll in dex, and Silk rope for the +2 to Use Rope checks), then it's going to be rather difficult to get out.

[Dust]

The Justicar should be applying a 'judicial' use of force. Instead of making anti-character items, build a subdual-damage-monkey Justicar by name.

[archon_huskie]

Give him an in-game reason to delay his escape. Like in strip #720. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0720.html)

[Jack_Simth]

Give him an in-game reason to delay his escape. Like in strip #720. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0720.html)
Don't forget #156 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html)!

[Crasical]

Edit: Scratch all that. Use Rope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useRope.htm):
So if your Justicar is used to tying people up (say, he's an expert with Max Ranks in Use Rope, Skill Focus(Use Rope), a decent roll in dex, and Silk rope for the +2 to Use Rope checks), then it's going to be rather difficult to get out.

Won't they just realize that the Escape Artist check is going to be ridiculous and just strength-check to burst the rope?

[Nanoblack]

If you're looking for high DC manacles the I'd advise you to check the wondrous item section of the BoED there are both manacles of silence that set off an alarm when broken out of but also an exoensive set of anti-magic shackles that are pretty difficult to get out of.

If you're looking for a more interesting way to tie someone up, might i suggest the iron bands of bilarro from the DMG?

[Jack_Simth]

Won't they just realize that the Escape Artist check is going to be ridiculous and just strength-check to burst the rope?
It's a DC 24 strength check with silk rope. Yes, the Fighter-10 will likely make it sooner or later ... if you left him with his equipment; he *might* be able to do so without it, depending on the build. The Barbarian-10 will almost certainly make it sooner or later, equipment or no (Rage). The Rogue-10, Wizard-10, or Cleric-10? Not so much.

So the big beefy guys? Manacles + locks (Regular Manacles: 15 gp/prisoner; Masterwork Manacles: 50 gp/prisoner; Locks: anywhere from 20 gp to 150 gp, with a corresponding Open Lock DC of anywhere from 20 to 40). The rest? Silk Rope (10 gp each). If you want to make sure you've got all bases covered, realize that the two methods are not incompatible. If you've got a good Use Rope check, you can strip and gag your prisoners, manacle them, tie them up, and get most of them contained at 210 gp in equipment each (50 gp Masterwork Manacles, 150 gp Superior Lock, 10 gp Silk Rope: DC 28 Strength check to break them, DC (your normal Use Rope Modifier+22 - take ten, +2 for Silk Rope, +10 for Bindings) Escape Artist check, or just the right spell/effect for the job). Yeah, anyone with the right spells stilled and/or silenced will get out. The Psionic characters will all get out. Anyone more skilled at Escape Artist than you are at Use Rope will get out. The guy with a Strength score of 26 (or higher) without his equipment will get out. The Monk with Abundant Step will get out. Almost nobody else will.


If you're looking for a more interesting way to tie someone up, might i suggest the iron bands of bilarro from the DMG?
Interestingly, while those have a higher Strength Check DC to burst (30, vs. 28 for Masterwork Manacles), they've got a lower Escape Artist check (30, vs. 35 for Masterwork Manacles).

[gallagher]

i am not trying to railroad. actually in the backstory they already knew that this guy was a well known bounty hunter, considered the best. the player invested in escape artist because A) he had alot of skillpoints to spare and B) he was metagaming a bit.

i am not trying to punish him, and he will have opportunities. but to be perfectly fair, the best bounty hunter is going to have the best equipment available

[Realms of Chaos]

Adamantine Manacles + Sovereign Glue.

Your Rogue will be forced to either steal a univeral solvant from the bounty hunter (which he uses to "free" the criminals into custody) or to make the extreme break DC to break the adamantine manacles.

Or, you know, ripping off the flesh of his wrists and dying. :smallamused:

[Lysander]

Make it so he CAN escape, but chooses to leave the manacles on until an opportune time for an escape comes along. Classic story staple, the hero pretending they're still tied up. Maybe he's the only one who can get out and has to figure out how to save the others.

[Caphi]

Scroll of forcecage.

[Crasical]

Scroll of forcecage.

1. Forcecages are immobile, so for a bountyhunter that needs to capture their target alive and transport them, they're useless unless they use the 'with bars' version and plink at the target with a Merciful bow or reach weapon.

2. Forcecage isn't on the Ranger or Paladin spell list, the two classes with casting most likely to become a justiciar, so they would have to UMD the scroll.

3. Neither of those have UMD as a class skill.