Campaign Advice and New DM tips needed.

[Iseradore]

As the title says, I'm a new DM. I've handled maybe three games and 2 have ended premature do to relocating or too much party power. I find i have a problem with pacing and like to give the players more power than i likely should as they enjoy having power.

Sooooo enough about the past, on to the topic at hand.

I've recently started DM'ing in a Pathfinder game with Gestalt. The last pathfinder game ended only a few weeks ago due to imbalance in power. At level 16 the players were able to consistently take on monsters drastically more powerful than themselves and more often than not those would scale into the 22+ range. This time around i've limited power alot more and asked for a gentlemen's agreement that we won't over power things and try to enjoy the game more from a simpler perspective. Here's the skinny on this game.

We're running Advanced players guide, pathfinder core, and any printed 3.0/3.5 material with dm's permission, for the most part i'm lax because i like the players to be happy and have more options, but i'm worried about over powered groups again this time. I'm running it mostly as a sandbox for now with them pseudo guiding me on where to go and what to do. Thus far they have at level two claimed a medium sized cave system with an underground river flowing into/through it. They have killed/captured and enslaved a small tribe of goblins (15 males and 11 females with 4 children.) and are using them to mine out more areas in the cave to serve as a hideout for the group. This cave is perched a couple of miles from a major trade road and is far out of the way from the closest outpost so the group plans to use it to raid caravans and start their insidious career there.

Being new i still have alot of trouble getting into dm'ing, i'm a player at heart but i do it for my friends and really don't hate it, i just feel like i'm bad at it. Any tips from you long time DM's? Any help with the direction of this campaign so far? Ideas there?

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for the advice in advance.

[Sipex]

It sounds fine.

Are your players enjoying themselves?

[Quietus]

Sounds fine for now. Just a note, though.. if you're worried about character power, why did you allow gestalt?

Outside of that, just try and stay near to whatever wealth guidelines Pathfinder offers as best you can. Stay aware for optimization snafus that make one player unexpectedly powerful, and be mature with your players when they come to you wanting to play a warhulking hurler or some such things - "I'm sorry, but I'd like everyone to be more or less equal and sane in power" is not an unreasonable thing to say.

[KiltedGrappler]

A good thing to keep in mind regarding player power.

It's far easier to give low power characters a boot than it is to take power away from a high power group, both in chracter and out of character. If you take power away from a high powered group, they'll resent you for it. If they are low powered, and you'd like to boost them a bit, do so. They'll love you for it.

But make sure you are upfront and honest about whether the boost is permanent or temporary. I prefer to give out temporary power boosts more than permanent, since this way I can easily control the power level of my game without pissing the players off and taking their shiney new toys away from them if I think I made a mistake.

[Another_Poet]

Yeah, allowing Gestalt is tough for a new DM who's worried about power balance. So is giving over a whole tribe of gobbos at Level 2! I would make sure those gobs are unwilling to fight on behalf of the PCs. They'll mine the place but if ordered to fight they'll flee or turn on their masters.

Other tips for helping with power balance:

If you have an idea for a cool item, make it a charged or single-use item.
Giving an assortment of low-power items in lieu of a high-power item can be fun. For instance, two +1 swords instead of a +3 sword. A box of 10 2nd level potions instead of an Oil of Resurrection.
Give defensive items for casters and offensive items for warriors. For example, a Headband of Intellect +2 is a bad idea to give out too early. A Jockstrap of Strength +2 is a great idea. It will help the warrior's offence but not boost the wizard's spells. That Cloak of Resistance +1 will then probably go to a caster, and improve their defence, no big deal.
Don't give unusual things. It might seem cool to give a scroll that grants 2 feats permanently to a character, or give out bonus Swim ranks to those who enter the Waterfall Contest, or whatever - but that stuff isn't priced in the DMG, doesn't follow normal guidelines and has far more unintended consequences than just giving out a level-appropriate item.
If you are not confident in your balancing abilities, roll treasure randomly using the appropriate tables and stick by it no matter what it says.
Stop allowing classes/abilities you are not familiar with. Yes the players like options, but you are new and need to get a handle on it. Don't just do a quick skim of what they request and allow it, say no. Be polite but firm.

[Radar]

Obligatory thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474) is obligatory.

Aside from that:
Gestalt is kind of powerful right out of the box, so you might encounter some issues in the new campaign as well. If the monsters from the books are too weak (they will be), you can adjust by giving them class levels. This will also make your monster more surprising and diversified.

[Iseradore]

Thanks for the tips, I've been a player for many years and my grasp of the wide variety of classes/abilities is pretty good. I've always been a bit of a power gamer so i've tried to keep my eyes open for anything particularly useful and obviously had to scour as many sources as i could.

As to the goblins, it's already been noted that if it came to blows with them trying to force the goblins to fight right now the goblins would turn on them or run first chance they got. Grunt labor is worth their lives and the lives of their families, but if death is imminent anyway they'll try to spare their families with their own lives.

As to gestalt, it's powerful, but i've found that a +1 to hit her and there and a couple bonus damage and some added hit points shore it all up fine.

[blackjack217]

If you are still worried about the PC's power have your big bad take a level in Bad... literally there is a substitution that just got necro'ed and locked over in homebrew

[Another_Poet]

If you are still worried about the PC's power have your big bad take a level in Bad... literally there is a substitution that just got necro'ed and locked over in homebrew

I'd give the opposite advice. I wouldn't go giving my villain a level in something to get plot-needed powers. I don't price out trap cost either, and if the Bad Guy is known to be able to see the future (for instance), well, guess what, he can do it without the necessary Wiz/Clr levels.

I'm not saying don't stat your villains, just that NPCs don't have to be built by PC rules, so having special classes to give them villain powers is not my cup of tea. They just get villain powers. This is doubly true if you are worried about your PCs getting ahead of the power curve, because you may have to restat your villain on the fly to make him a credible challenge, and if you are a slave to using class levels and all the char gen rules it is going to take five times longer than if you just say, "I'll add 20 hp, +2 to his saves and give him the ability to make doors open and close at will inside his own castle."

[Tyndmyr]

Well, using actual abilities instead of fiat helps in a few areas. For instance, it allows the players the possibility of discovering reasonable counters to his tactics through trial and error, or due to similarity with something they've seen before. Furthermore, it allows them to do this without it being a player vs DM thing.

Now, for a coupla hp or what have you, this isn't that big of a deal(honestly, if they're gestalt, there's no reason why the mobs cant be gestalted with barbarian. Bam, d12 hit die, full bab. Almost no work involved), but it can be a factor when you get into more interesting abilities.

Limiting loot can be tough...it's always fun to give it out, and players with a treasure chest can be like kids at christmas. Try giving out no loot at all for an entire session once. It'll change expectations, and help focus on finding ways to reduce that aspect. Try using mimics at some point. Rolling loot randomly, as already suggested, is a fine idea. I reccomend doing so pre-game, as it helps to have monsters use their fine gear in combat. Much more realistic.

If you opt to not preroll loot, have the players roll it. Players LOVE finding out what new shiny they get, and they generally love rolling dice. This method gives up the realism of monsters using their toys, but it is pretty easy on the DM to do.

[Dust]

Link in my sig for my compiled and tried-and-tested villain-building advice. I'm a big believer on giving the PCs a common adversary to better unify their goals.

It's harder to give campaign advice in a sandbox world, as well as it being harder to run such a game. Just build a big, big, BIG immersive world and have 2-3 unique, memorable npcs ready to go at any time. For inspiration of amazing seat-of-his pants GMing, check out the always-amusing Chris Perkins from the Live PAX D&D game (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Feature.aspx?x=dnd/feature/paxgame) - specifically, watch how he chooses to ignore rules for the same of awesome PC stunts, helps flavor situations like the 'I'm embezzling' scene at the teleporter based on what he knows his PCs are like, and generally goes along with their plans while still not making it easy for them.

[Another_Poet]

Well, using actual abilities instead of fiat helps in a few areas. For instance, it allows the players the possibility of discovering reasonable counters to his tactics through trial and error, or due to similarity with something they've seen before. Furthermore, it allows them to do this without it being a player vs DM thing.


I'm a big believer on giving the PCs a common adversary to better unify their goals.

I agree on all counts. I just see no reason to use class levels to do it (unless that is easiest for the GM, but often times class levels are clunky and char gen takes a long time - such as making a 12th level wizard, for instance).

In order to make sure it is fair to the players I think it is best to decide what abilities your villain has and stick with it. That way your players can discover the villain's powers and make intelligent, unified strategy. They never need to know whether the ability came from a class or from your own mind, as long as it is reasonably balanced and they have a way to learn about it and combat it.

If you need to ramp it up as I suggested (adding hp, attack bonus, a few minor abilities) do so, but try to keep it in line with what's already known about the villain. This would apply equally wether adding 2 more class levels or adding a few new bonuses off the top of your head.

Again, fiat and screwing the players is not what I'm suggesting; I'm just saying it can be easier to add balanced, reasonable powers without class levels and PC advancement rules, because it takes less time.

[kyoryu]

In order to make sure it is fair to the players I think it is best to decide what abilities your villain has and stick with it. That way your players can discover the villain's powers and make intelligent, unified strategy. They never need to know whether the ability came from a class or from your own mind, as long as it is reasonably balanced and they have a way to learn about it and combat it.


Bolded what, to me, is the critical point. Consistency is more important than whether actual char-gen rules are used, or even whether the abilities are 'book' abilities. A BBEG who has consistent abilities can be learned, and players can devise strategies around it. Even if you're using by-the-book PC rules, they can't come up with strategies if he's a Fighter one week, a Wizard the next, and a Druid the third.

[Sipex]

I would like to point out that if you're going the transforming route once he hit's critical (alternate forms) then the gloves obviously come off and things change.