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View Full Version : Druid PrC that's not Planar Shepard



WarKitty
2010-10-07, 05:30 PM
I'm looking for a PrC that I can enter into as a druid that would aid with casting. I am currently one of two full casters in our party of 7, the other being your standard healbot cleric. I'm quite frankly not using wildshape all that much. I like the fluff behind Beloved of Valarian and Swanmay, but the first is not a casting class and the second...swans? seriously? Published non setting specific material is allowed, online supplements are not.

P.S. yeah, I know, I know, druids are overpowered blah blah blah. I'm a caster not a wild shape monster, and I've got 5 melee'ers to keep alive.

Keld Denar
2010-10-07, 05:37 PM
If you don't want Wildshape or those goodies, Sacred Exorcist is pretty decent. It gives Turn Undead, which can be used to DMM your drood spells (since drood spells are divine). The knowledges might be kinda hard to get though. If you don't want to DMM, there is Divine Spell Powah, and SacEx's Consecrate Aura helps with that a ton. Worst case, its 3/4 BAB and d8 HD, same as druid, so you aren't really losing anything.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-07, 06:15 PM
sentinal of Bharri? full-ish caster. Become a Bear at will, summon bears, Quicken spells.

WarKitty
2010-10-07, 06:18 PM
sentinal of Bharri? full-ish caster. Become a Bear at will, summon bears, Quicken spells.

I do *not* need bears! If anything I need to focus away from dealing damage.

eggynack
2010-10-07, 06:42 PM
You lie. There is no situation that can't be resolved by the implementation of more bears.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-07, 06:47 PM
What about making a sandwich? How do Bears help than?

Eldariel
2010-10-07, 06:51 PM
Moonspeaker is the other worthwhile Druid PrC. It is Shifter-only though so I suppose that doesn't happen to hit?

SurlySeraph
2010-10-07, 06:51 PM
The best sandwiches involve meat. Bears can either catch meat-bearing animals for you, or be converted into meat.

Back on topic, what about Contemplative if you're at a high enough level? A domain never hurts.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-07, 06:56 PM
You might, if your DM allows it, take Prestige Ranger 4, and Sword of the Arcane Order. You lose out on two CL but gain access to the Sorc/Wiz list.

Frosty
2010-10-07, 06:57 PM
Does Bearington the Bearbearian involve levels of Sentinal of Bharri? :smallbiggrin:

Anyhow, you shouldn't worry about PrCing...you can just take a lot of casting feats (like metamagic) and you'll be fine.

The Glyphstone
2010-10-07, 07:03 PM
Indeed, solid Druid is still a great caster, and probably a better caster than most PrC options. And what's this nonsense about not needing more bears? Bears are great for more than damage, they make excellent and cheap meatshields.

FMArthur
2010-10-07, 07:14 PM
They crowd up the battlefield a bit more than 5 melees would want, methinks.

I'm sorry OP, but I don't understand what you want out of a prestige class for this. Can't you just specialize in playing a certain style without having a separate class devoted to it?

WarKitty
2010-10-07, 07:18 PM
Indeed, solid Druid is still a great caster, and probably a better caster than most PrC options. And what's this nonsense about not needing more bears? Bears are great for more than damage, they make excellent and cheap meatshields.

I think that's what the rest of my party qualifies for. :smallbiggrin: I'm really working to complement our melee-heavy party.

In all seriousness, I was looking for something focused on the debuffing/control side of life. I was mostly looking for a way to trade off the wild shape abilities that I'm frankly not using (3/day will be more than enough for my needs) for something more handy for a caster in terms of class skills. Something cool like, you know, turn undead or bonus feats.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-07, 07:21 PM
Sacred Exorcist (CDiv), Contemplative (CDiv), Holt Warden (CCham), Paragnostic Apostle (CCham), and Earth Dreamer (RoS) all have their merits. Each is 10/10 (or 5/5 in two cases) casting, none progress wildshape, and all are easily entered for druids.

grarrrg
2010-10-07, 07:22 PM
You lie. There is no situation that can't be resolved by the implementation of more bears.

Agreed.


Does Bearington the Bearbearian involve levels of Sentinal of Bharri? :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure it would be a net-loss in Bearishness.
To get the Pre-Reqs would require loosing some Bearishness, so it's more a trade off than a bonus.

The Glyphstone
2010-10-07, 07:26 PM
Bearington doesn't cast spells. They're not bear enough for him.

Honestly, druids don't make phenomenal debuffers or battlefield controllers with their default spell lists. As summoners, they excel though, so if you want to help out your melee, being able to conjure flankers en masse is always a nice tactic, though you can do that with default spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally. Bears are good for that purpose too.:smallsmile:

I'd say Sacred Exorcist is the best option. Turn Undead can be used to fuel Divine Metamagic into things like Rapid Spell (for this-turn flankers instead of next-turn flankers) or Extend Spell/Persistent Spell.

WarKitty
2010-10-07, 07:28 PM
I think last time I did that my melee companions complained that my summons got in the way too much. Then again they complain period.

But yeah if there was any good way to expand a spell list that would also be appreciated.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-07, 07:32 PM
Use the PF druid and take a domain? Or do what I do and use a lot of walls. Druids get some good ones: sand, smoke, stone, ice, fire... Contemplative could get you some domains too, for MOAR SPELLZ. As could whatever that Faiths of Eberron one is that gives you a domain every level.

Zaydos
2010-10-07, 07:33 PM
Contemplative (Complete Divine) mentioned above gives you a domain at 1st level in it which would expand your list further.

Keld Denar
2010-10-07, 07:34 PM
sand, smoke, stone, ice, fire...

THORNS!!!! Wall of Thorns >>>>>>> all other walls. Period.

I forgot about Earth Dreamer. Thats a really good one.

Pyron
2010-10-07, 07:38 PM
I would like to second the recommendation for Holt Warden for access to the Plant Domain (and extra domain spell slot!) and Heal SLA. The requirements are non-existent for any druid.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-07, 07:38 PM
THORNS!!!! Wall of Thorns >>>>>>> all other walls. Period.

I forgot about Earth Dreamer. Thats a really good one.

Stonespeaker Guardian is better than Earth Dreamer IMO (earth glide at will instead of for a couple of times a day) but is saddled with a bizarre racial requirement.

Wall of thorns is good, but I prefer stone and smoke. Smoke is actually pretty crazy for a first level spell: concealment and nausea? And you can use smoke stairs on it too for exploratory purposes.

The Glyphstone
2010-10-07, 07:50 PM
If his melee complains when he summons flankers that can be moved out of their way, I can't imagine they'll be happy with walls that not only can't be moved, but are potentially hazardous to them as well.:smallamused:

Fax Celestis
2010-10-07, 07:53 PM
If his melee complains when he summons flankers that can be moved out of their way, I can't imagine they'll be happy with walls that not only can't be moved, but are potentially hazardous to them as well.:smallamused:

I have a suspicion that their actual complaint is that the minions are killing as well as they are.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-07, 07:59 PM
I have a suspicion that their actual complaint is that the minions are killing as well as they are.

True, they likely find the situations un-bearable. :smallcool:

The Glyphstone
2010-10-07, 08:01 PM
I have a suspicion that their actual complaint is that the minions are killing as well as they are.

This is a potential problem. Bears are, after all, the penultimate killing machines. We need something weaker than bears...balors, maybe? Or monkeys. Everything's better with monkeys (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlefr5h9p9h6i92?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWith Monkeys), you can get a lot of them with an Empowered Summon Nature's Ally, and they suck at actually hurting anything or really doing anything that doesn't involve being a flanking dummy. Bonus points if you use Signature Spell to make them come out of a barrel.

Zaq
2010-10-07, 08:36 PM
Honestly, druids don't make phenomenal debuffers or battlefield controllers with their default spell lists.

Gonna disagree with this one. A Druid has almost as many ways to simply clog up the field as a Wizzie does. Yeah, the lack of things like Solid Fog hurts, but if you look hard enough (hint: Frostburn is fantastic, but even just the PHB and SpC are wonderful), there's no shortage of spells that can seriously get in your enemies' faces and keep them where you want them. (Wall of Thorns, anyone?)

Leon
2010-10-07, 10:18 PM
I would like to second the recommendation for Holt Warden for access to the Plant Domain (and extra domain spell slot!) and Heal SLA. The requirements are non-existent for any druid.

Third on the Holt Warden

WarKitty
2010-10-07, 10:43 PM
Thanks everyone! I think I'll go in for Contemplative; thank goodness for PF skill point systems. Druid 10/Contemplative 10 sounds like a good fit for the character.

Malbordeus
2010-10-08, 05:52 AM
walker of the wastes... (sandstorm)

*ducks*

WarKitty
2010-10-08, 07:48 AM
walker of the wastes... (sandstorm)

*ducks*

:smalltongue: No-evil campaign.

Khatoblepas
2010-10-08, 08:41 AM
:smalltongue: No-evil campaign.

Walker in the Waste is Any Non-Good, not Any Evil. You could be neutral.

A Druid 5/WitW 10/Anything 5 sounds like a nice idea.

Since you lose out on Wildshape, you can take the replace-wildshape-with-monk-abilities ACF, the Familiar instead of Animal Companion, and there's probably a way to get Heat Endurance for free.

Take a feat that changes Wis-to-AC to Cha to AC (Carmandine Monk?) Dynamic Priest, and you're a force of nature to be reckoned with. Less broken than a normal druid, too! Now, is there a way to get 3 Sand/Thirst domain spells for a druid by level 3?

WarKitty
2010-10-08, 08:59 AM
Walker in the Waste is Any Non-Good, not Any Evil. You could be neutral.

A Druid 5/WitW 10/Anything 5 sounds like a nice idea.

Since you lose out on Wildshape, you can take the replace-wildshape-with-monk-abilities ACF, the Familiar instead of Animal Companion, and there's probably a way to get Heat Endurance for free.

Take a feat that changes Wis-to-AC to Cha to AC (Carmandine Monk?) Dynamic Priest, and you're a force of nature to be reckoned with. Less broken than a normal druid, too! Now, is there a way to get 3 Sand/Thirst domain spells for a druid by level 3?

I'd rather not give up on my NG alignment, unfortunately. I know you *can* be neutral, but it's supposed to be a heroes campaign. That sort of neutral just seems like cheating.

Malbordeus
2010-10-08, 01:37 PM
that and the kingdom your in might object to you turning vast tracts of their land into a dessert.

you could always atone after you've had the rituals done on you ofc.

as for getting intot he class, the requirements are the ability to cast the spells from, not to have access to, the sand or thirst domains. i think most of them are on the druid list. from sand - waste strider and Haboob are on it by level 5, from thirst Dessicate is there as a level 2 druid spell. there are your three spells from those domains, have fun :)

WarKitty
2010-10-08, 01:40 PM
That and dessicating touch is even less useful than wildshape for casting enhancement. :smalltongue:

Malbordeus
2010-10-08, 01:41 PM
just think of the salt mummies :P

Urpriest
2010-10-08, 01:47 PM
that and the kingdom your in might object to you turning vast tracts of their land into a dessert.

Walker in the Chocolates prestige class?

Starbuck_II
2010-10-08, 01:52 PM
Walker in the Chocolates prestige class?

Adaptation that you honor chocolate, so you turn the world around you to choco. :smallbiggrin:
I love it.

WarKitty
2010-10-08, 01:55 PM
Salt mummies with a bunch of melee?

Actually, what is it with the whole forest nature person=good, desert/ice/underground nature person=evil?

Delusion
2010-10-08, 02:06 PM
Salt mummies with a bunch of melee?

Actually, what is it with the whole forest nature person=good, desert/ice/underground nature person=evil?

I think it has something to do with those places being inhospitable(sp).

Fax Celestis
2010-10-08, 02:07 PM
Actually, what is it with the whole forest nature person=good, desert/ice/underground nature person=evil?

Sacred cows.

Zaydos
2010-10-08, 02:08 PM
Salt mummies with a bunch of melee?

Actually, what is it with the whole forest nature person=good, desert/ice/underground nature person=evil?

Forests are full of life and growing things.

The other three you listed have been traditionally associated with death, or death and hell.

Remember humans were originally hunter/gatherers, forests meant you could survive and there was food. Desert/ice meant you starved and died a slow, painful death. Underground? Well that has again to do with the placement of the underworld.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-08, 02:09 PM
I think it has something to do with those places being inhospitable(sp).

Don't Dwarves live underground... and Drow...and Mindflayers... in fact underground seems very hospitable since lots of things live there.

I'll grant desert/Ice.

Delusion
2010-10-08, 02:48 PM
Don't Dwarves live underground... and Drow...and Mindflayers... in fact underground seems very hospitable since lots of things live there.

I'll grant desert/Ice.

Yes, but in RL it isn't, so I still think thats where the stereotype comes from.

Wings of Peace
2010-10-08, 02:49 PM
Proposition for a druid with a focus purely on spellcasting: Hathran

Good features overall and if you have a Druid Circle then it lends nice flavor to your Circle Magic abilities.

WarKitty
2010-10-08, 02:52 PM
Proposition for a druid with a focus purely on spellcasting: Hathran

Good features overall and if you have a Druid Circle then it lends nice flavor to your Circle Magic abilities.

Setting specific material is banned.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-08, 02:52 PM
As an aside: is there any value for going Sacred Exorcist 1/Radiant Servant 10 for a druid? I mean, sure, it adds a bunch of stuff to your list, but how much of it is already stuff on your list?

Wings of Peace
2010-10-08, 02:57 PM
Setting specific material is banned.

Raaaaaaaaage. D8<

Perhaps Sacred Exorcist for turn undead? Though admittedly I don't remember much of it's pre-quisites short of it uses divine casting.

Telonius
2010-10-08, 03:06 PM
I think that's what the rest of my party qualifies for. :smallbiggrin: I'm really working to complement our melee-heavy party.


So what you're saying is you need a way to change the rest of your party into bears? :smallbiggrin:

Urpriest
2010-10-08, 08:43 PM
As an aside: is there any value for going Sacred Exorcist 1/Radiant Servant 10 for a druid? I mean, sure, it adds a bunch of stuff to your list, but how much of it is already stuff on your list?

Don't you need the Sun domain for Radiant Servant?

Petrocorus
2010-10-08, 11:39 PM
Maybe you could take one dip into wizard, precocious apprentice and go into Arcane Hierophant.

You don't lose most of your Druids abilities and can gain CL 11 in wizard.

You can widely improves the number of battlefield control and buff.

And you're still mostly a Druid.

TheThan
2010-10-08, 11:46 PM
Ok guys I’m looking for a PRC for a druid using the shapechange variant out of PHBII. The character is more melee than magic so something suitable would be great. As the shapechange is an at will ability, things that grant wildshape don’t really help so I’m sorta at a loss here. i'm actually thinking of multi-classing into warblade.

Benly
2010-10-09, 12:23 AM
Ok guys I’m looking for a PRC for a druid using the shapechange variant out of PHBII. The character is more melee than magic so something suitable would be great. As the shapechange is an at will ability, things that grant wildshape don’t really help so I’m sorta at a loss here. i'm actually thinking of multi-classing into warblade.

Granting wildshape uses isn't helpful, but advancing wild shape will get you better forms. If your DM allows shapeshift to count as Wild Shape for purposes of PrC entry, Warshaper is awesome for a shapeshifting meleeist. Nature's Warrior is also a great choice if the DM is willing to let its Wild Shape enhancing powers apply to shapeshift.

Morithias
2010-10-09, 12:25 AM
How has no one mentioned the Master of Many Forms yet?

Leon
2010-10-09, 01:14 AM
Granting wildshape uses isn't helpful, but advancing wild shape will get you better forms. If your DM allows shapeshift to count as Wild Shape for purposes of PrC entry, Warshaper is awesome for a shapeshifting meleeist. Nature's Warrior is also a great choice if the DM is willing to let its Wild Shape enhancing powers apply to shapeshift.

Advancing Wildshape wont do anything as Shapeshift is a different shapechange system.

Two levels of Monk + Combat Casting and pick up Scared Fist - Full BAB, a AC bonus, 2 Good saves, 8/10 casting, faster movement plus some other goodies.

Fighting in your Combat Form meshs well with not being able to use weapons.

Benly
2010-10-09, 01:40 AM
Advancing Wildshape wont do anything as Shapeshift is a different shapechange system.


I'll amend that: "presuming your DM treats the two as transparent for this purpose". What he seemed to be saying was that gaining extra Wild Shape uses was not useful to him, which is true.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-09, 01:05 PM
Advancing Wildshape wont do anything as Shapeshift is a different shapechange system.

Two levels of Monk + Combat Casting and pick up Scared Fist - Full BAB, a AC bonus, 2 Good saves, 8/10 casting, faster movement plus some other goodies.

Fighting in your Combat Form meshs well with not being able to use weapons.

The Sacred Fist is 10/10 casting according to the text.

Togo
2010-10-09, 06:27 PM
Bear warrior? Or Preameval? (Frostburn) Or even Drunken master, for that Rana 1/2 vibe?

Leon
2010-10-09, 07:13 PM
The Sacred Fist is 10/10 casting according to the text.

That ultimatley is upto your DM to rule on - i go via the table.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-09, 07:51 PM
That ultimatley is upto your DM to rule on - i go via the table.

Technically Text always trumps Table, but yes, do check with your DM. Though I don't see how Sacred Fist does quite what the OP was looking for. Some levels of Wizard and Arcane Hierophant might be good, and is certainly less cheesy than the Prestige Ranger 4/Sword of the Arcane Order dip+feat that I suggested (and that may be out anyway, if all setting specific material is disallowed). It doesn't really do much for your Druid casting (other than advancing it) but it does get you access to the Sorc/Wiz list which should have some benefit to your BC and Buff/Debuff abilities. It's truly too bad that there aren't many Druid Prcs out there.

Edit: Another way to get access to the Sorc/Wiz list is to get the feat Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon, Pg. 105) assuming your DM allows you to gain racial spellcasting via wildshape. It also has the cool perk of "you turn into a dragon" which is always nice.

Further Edit: Draconic Wildshape specifically disallows spellcasting, my bad.

Grynning
2010-10-09, 08:41 PM
Edit: Another way to get access to the Sorc/Wiz list is to get the feat Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon, Pg. 105) assuming your DM allows you to gain racial spellcasting via wildshape. It also has the cool perk of "you turn into a dragon" which is always nice.

I can't think of any reading of the rules that lets you get racial spellcasting via wildshape. Dragons gain spellcasting as a sorcerer via their HD...you don't get the creature's racial HD via any form of polymorphing.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-09, 11:14 PM
And the feat itself rules out spellcasting, specifically. Oops!

Edit: But I think the argument goes, any special ability that is not marked out as Supernatural or Spell-Like is Extraordinary, casting is not marked out as Supernatural or Spell-Like, and therefore is Extraordinary. Any ability (Polymorph, and therefore Wild Shape) which gains you a creature's Extraordinary abilities therefore gains you their spellcasting. Not saying I agree, just saying I've played games (well, a game) where this was the case.

Greenish
2010-10-09, 11:18 PM
I can't think of any reading of the rules that lets you get racial spellcasting via wildshape. Dragons gain spellcasting as a sorcerer via their HD...you don't get the creature's racial HD via any form of polymorphing.I wouldn't say dragons gain sorcerer casting from their RHD. They gain spellcasting as a function of their age, which is a function of their RHD, yes, but there's nothing intrinsic in Dragon-RHD that would give sorcerer casting.

Leon
2010-10-09, 11:28 PM
Though I don't see how Sacred Fist does quite what the OP was looking for.

Not responding to OP, responding to TheThan.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-09, 11:31 PM
Not responding to OP, responding to TheThan.

Ah, I see.