PDA

View Full Version : Eunuch Warlock: How to make the most of two sacrifices?



Urpriest
2010-10-09, 11:10 AM
Having recently been reminded of this class's existence, I thought that it would be entertaining to see how it might be optimized. And since it's unlikely to ever be an Iron Chef ingredient, I've made this thread to discuss it.

Background: Eunuch Warlock is one of only two prestige classes that I am aware of that require Gender: Male. In its original form it was horrible (think Dragon Disciple without Str boosts), but Dragon Magazine updated it to 3.5, and in doing so made it...decent. Relevant to this discussion is the following:

The class requires 5th level arcane spells, and as such can only be entered at 10th level or higher. It requires evil alignment. It loses a caster level at first level, and thereafter has full casting. It gains the character a small caster level boost in schools in which he has Spell Focus. It gives Leadership as a bonus feat, and a Leadership score boost if the character already has it ("in order to cancel out the penalty for a reputation for cruelty"). Its only interesting class feature is the following:

Mighty Spell: At second, fourth, sixth, eighth, and tenth level, the Eunuch Warlock can designate a spell known as a Mighty Spell. This spell is then always cast as Empowered without taking extra time or raising the spell level. At eighth and tenth the caster can also designate a previously Empowered spell to be permanently Maximized instead. Thus the character ends up with three Empowered spells and two Maximized spells. It may be possible to Empower a previously Maximized spell (at the very least the class doesn't rule it out).

Does this match up to Incantatrix? No. Anima Mage? No. Ultimate Magus? No.

However, those classes are powerful and versatile, and occasionally make DMs uncomfortable. If you want to have reduced cost metamagic without making your DM's head explode, Eunuch Warlock might actually be a solid choice, particularly if you avoid misusing (or using) your free Leadership. However it must be kept in mind that, in comparison to Incantatrix, Eunuch Warlock must sacrifice two things that mages find quite precious...

A level of casting and the chance to take more than one level of Archmage. What did you think I was referring to? :smalltongue:

Anyway, this leads to the question I want to ask the giantitp boards: what are some good choices for Mighty Spells? Enervation is a perennial favorite for this setup, and your last Mighty Spell could give you a Maximized Time Stop. Arcane Thesis is probably a good feat for this sort of character as well. What are your ideas?

WinWin
2010-10-09, 11:40 AM
For a leadership inspired class...

Monster summoning. The numbers of less powerful creatures would be maximised then empowered.

Awaken Undead. For more intelligent followers.

Fleshshiver. Good lockdown spell.

Flensing. Variable ability damage

Blackfire. Variable ability damage

Recyprocal Gyre. Anti-caster Spell.

(various) Dispel Magic effects. I am unsure if the caster level check is a 'variable' effect for the purpose of maximise/empower.

Apocalypse from the Sky. Because it synergises so well with metamagic reducers, born of three thunders and Sadism.

Orbs. No Eunuch should be without them. Force and Fire I mean...

As for entry, you can't go wrong with a Focused Specialist. Wu Jen's spell secret would synergise with the free metamagic though. Perhaps Wu-Jen/Mage of the Arcane Order?

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 02:40 PM
Fun suggestions, definitely with a "wizard with a goatee" feel, which is what the class seems designed for. Most of those spells feel a little slow though...fine if you want to hold back and let the melee have some fun, but perhaps not as optimal as one could get.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-09, 03:00 PM
Background: Eunuch Warlock is one of only two prestige classes that I am aware of that require Gender: Male.
That is odd now that I think about it. There's a whole slew of 'female only' PrCs, but very few 'male only.'
It's even odder that one of the very few 'male only' PrC is this one, one which would seemingly make your character not quite count as 'male'. (No, I'm not arguing for something like dragon disciple where the capstone level would technically make you ineligible for the PrC)


The class requires 5th level arcane spells, and as such can only be entered at 10th level or higher. It requires evil alignment. It loses a caster level at first level, and thereafter has full casting. It gains the character a small caster level boost in schools in which he has Spell Focus. It gives Leadership as a bonus feat, and a Leadership score boost if the character already has it ("in order to cancel out the penalty for a reputation for cruelty").
Keep typing things here, and having to delete them cuz they're so random/offtopic. So I'll stick with this: Wow, that's a really late PrC entry.
Getting 'leadership' seems like a rather odd selection for a bonus feat. "We'll follow you forever your balllessness sir!"
btw: A wizard entering this would be able to get a single level of archmage. 9 levels of wizard, 10 of the PrC, 1 archmage.

flabort
2010-10-09, 03:17 PM
Is a ("normal") Warlock acceptable as an entry class? :smalltongue:
What happens if you have regeneration when you enter the class? :smallbiggrin:
Can an Incubus (male succubus) enter both this class And Fiend of Corruption (given enough time/cheese)? :smallamused:
Does wearing The all-to-famous Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html) allow or disallow entrance into this class? :smallconfused:
A warforged has no gender, but relates to one better than the other, and can therefore be asumed to be one or the other. Can one of those (or a variant, for better spell-caster stats) qualify?
What about artificer? being able to use free meta-magic, and being able to make magic items should go hand-in-hand. Maximized wand of Timestop?

...

Wait, what? Maximised Time Stop?! :smalleek:

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 03:26 PM
Is a ("normal") Warlock acceptable as an entry class? :smalltongue:

What about artificer? being able to use free meta-magic, and being able to make magic items should go hand-in-hand. Maximized wand of Timestop?


Warlocks and Artificers don't get spells, so they aren't options...though perhaps an Eldritch Theurge would be amusing, if not entirely practical. You'd need to cheat the blast requirements with a Fel Chasuble to still gain tenth level, though.

Cieyrin
2010-10-09, 03:36 PM
So we're not considering early entry shenanigans to get in earlier than 10th? That seems like a natural entry path if the only thing holding you back from getting into the PRC is the ability to cast a certain level of spell...

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 03:40 PM
So we're not considering early entry shenanigans to get in earlier than 10th? That seems like a natural entry path if the only thing holding you back from getting into the PRC is the ability to cast a certain level of spell...

It's not that we're not considering them. I view this class as a "don't give my DM a heart attack" alternative to Incantatrix et al, which would make early entry dubious...but I'd also just like to brainstorm interesting things to do with the class, including more cheesy ones. One problem with early entry, by the way, is that without accelerated casting such a character wouldn't get a maximized ninth level spell. (Unless, I suppose, they delayed the capstone, but then why are you doing early entry in the first place?) This might be a fine sacrifice if you feel the class is more interesting at low levels, though. Anything you have in mind?

flabort
2010-10-09, 04:12 PM
What is the full list of requirements?
You've already listed that it:
Must be male
Must be able to cast 5th level spells
must be evil.

Anything else? I can't cheese out an early entry without knowing everything... :smalltongue:
Of course, I can't cheese out early entries normally.

edit: wait, must it specifically be Arcane spells, or could we fit some druid in there?

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 04:28 PM
The full entry requirements are:

Gender: Male
Alignment: Any evil
Feats: Spell Focus
Spells: Able to cast 5th level arcane spells
Special: Eunuch

Fax Celestis
2010-10-09, 04:41 PM
Could you wrangle your way in with Wizard 1/Cleric 9 and Alternative Source Spell? Because that would be hilarious.

EDIT: Also it occurs to me that a bard could get in at 14th level. Could we do some Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge/Eunuch Warlock shenanigans to make weird yet amazing use of that auto-maximize with LT's bonus sonic damage?

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 04:44 PM
Could you wrangle your way in with Wizard 1/Cleric 9 and Alternative Source Spell? Because that would be hilarious.

EDIT: Also it occurs to me that a bard could get in at 14th level. Could we do some Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge/Eunuch Warlock shenanigans to make weird yet amazing use of that auto-maximize with LT's bonus sonic damage?

As to the former, it's certainly a decent enough entry method, but I'm not sure what it gains over the traditional entry.

Unfortunately without early entry tricks that bard won't get auto-maximize, since the ability comes at eighth level.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-09, 04:46 PM
Well, what about Bard/Sublime Chord/Lyric Thaumaturge/Eunuch Warlock? I'm AFB, so I don't know specifics, but it seems like it'd fit requirements pretty quickly.

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 04:49 PM
Well, what about Bard/Sublime Chord/Lyric Thaumaturge/Eunuch Warlock? I'm AFB, so I don't know specifics, but it seems like it'd fit requirements pretty quickly.

You'd lose your last mighty spell, but you'd still get one of the auto-maximizes, provided Lyric Thaumaturge can be taken before Sublime Chord and still apply to Sublime Chord spells.

Raistlin1040
2010-10-09, 05:17 PM
...Why do you have to be evil? It's not as if you're forcing your morality on others by castrating them...

Or are you? :smallamused:

Tengu_temp
2010-10-09, 05:22 PM
The full entry requirements are:

Gender: Male
Alignment: Any evil
Feats: Spell Focus
Spells: Able to cast 5th level arcane spells
Special: Eunuch

Special, huh? 3.5 players can consider themselves lucky. In 3.0, being castrated or sterile was a feat. Three guesses what book it was from, and the first two don't count.

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 06:06 PM
...Why do you have to be evil? It's not as if you're forcing your morality on others by castrating them...

Or are you? :smallamused:

I think the idea is that you're the evil vizier type. I summarized the Special: line of the requirements for brevity, but the extended version says you're part of the Emperor's eunuch bureaucracy.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-09, 06:13 PM
eunuch bureaucracy.

That is the worst bureaucracy ever. "Please fill out forms 1024A and C, 487B, and 315Q, then go stand in Line 4 to make use of Castration Machine 4A." *stamp stamp* "Have an organized day!"

OracleofWuffing
2010-10-09, 06:15 PM
Does this match up to Incantatrix? No. Anima Mage? No. Ultimate Magus? No.

However, those classes are powerful and versatile, and occasionally make DMs uncomfortable.
You don't want to make your DM feel uncomfortable, so you become a eunuch. I wish I could pull that off (:smalleek: uh, no pun intended) with my group.

Morph Bark
2010-10-09, 06:20 PM
...Why do you have to be evil? It's not as if you're forcing your morality on others by castrating them...

Or are you? :smallamused:

Grindhouse Eunuch Warlock? :smalleek:

Steveotep
2010-10-09, 07:36 PM
Special, huh? 3.5 players can consider themselves lucky. In 3.0, being castrated or sterile was a feat. Three guesses what book it was from, and the first two don't count.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy! The feat Sterile is a prerequisite of the Harem Protector PrC, which is melee-themed. Oddly males AND females can qualify for this class.

Morph Bark
2010-10-09, 07:46 PM
The Book of Erotic Fantasy! The feat Sterile is a prerequisite of the Harem Protector PrC, which is melee-themed. Oddly males AND females can qualify for this class.

Not odd if it is just for being sterile. Castrated would be odd though.

true_shinken
2010-10-09, 07:53 PM
Special, huh? 3.5 players can consider themselves lucky. In 3.0, being castrated or sterile was a feat. Three guesses what book it was from, and the first two don't count.
The joke would have been a lot more funny if the Oriental Adventures book was not 3.0

Zaydos
2010-10-09, 07:54 PM
And more accurate if BoEF had came out during 3.0 instead of 3.5.

SurlySeraph
2010-10-09, 08:09 PM
The Book of Erotic Fantasy! The feat Sterile is a prerequisite of the Harem Protector PrC, which is melee-themed. Oddly males AND females can qualify for this class.

Eh, given the established matriarchal societies in DnD harems consisting of men are perfectly plausible, and you certainly can't guard a harem well if you're pregnant.

But back to Eunuch Warlock. Orbs, Enervation, and Hail of Stone are probably good choices, and the CL boost to schools you have Spell Focus in might go nicely with a built based around having high CL. Reserves of Strength, moderate use of Consumptive Field, and (using Alternate Source Spell to enter) a cleric or archivist going with Blasphemy abuse might work well.

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 09:04 PM
But back to Eunuch Warlock. Orbs, Enervation, and Hail of Stone are probably good choices, and the CL boost to schools you have Spell Focus in might go nicely with a built based around having high CL. Reserves of Strength, moderate use of Consumptive Field, and (using Alternate Source Spell to enter) a cleric or archivist going with Blasphemy abuse might work well.

The CL boost is only +3, so a cleric using the Alternate Source Spell trick as set up above would be losing two levels of casting to gain one net CL, which seems not worth the effort.

Reserves of Strength is a better option, definitely, probably with aforementioned Orbs/Hail of Stone or something else CL and random-number dependent.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-10-09, 09:33 PM
I think going sorcerer or somehow manage to get Flurry of wings as a wizard, might be an option to considerate.

For the ones who don't know Wings of flurry is a sorc only 4rth level spell from Races of the Dragon, which deals 1d6/level force uncapped damage and if they fail the save (reflex) the enemies are dazed. also it is an area spell (30ft radius IIRC).

in all it is a great AoE speel, good damage potential and can affect incorporeal due being a [Force] effect.

WinWin
2010-10-09, 09:45 PM
Sorcerer or Bard would make a decnt entry, due to charisma synergy with leadership. Castrati were supposed to be great sopranos.

BoVD's 'willing deformity' chain of feats makes sense. For some reason I always picture eunuchs as obese.

Corrupt magic is another thematic choice. A eunuch is prepared to make sacrifices for power and they are an evil PrC.

I might put together a basic 1-20 build for the hell of it. I'll try and avoid impractical options.

Tengu_temp
2010-10-09, 09:48 PM
And more accurate if BoEF had came out during 3.0 instead of 3.5.

I'm pretty sure it's a 3.0 book.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-09, 09:55 PM
Copyright is 2006, and it states to be in compliance with the OGL.

I'm pretty sure in 3.0, it was just the d20 system license agreement version 1.0. (At least that's what my 3rd party adventure The Witch of Loch Durnan uses)

My vote on the BoEF is 3.5

Coidzor
2010-10-09, 10:53 PM
Isn't it like, Nymphology is one and BOEF is the other?

Zaydos
2010-10-09, 11:14 PM
Isn't it like, Nymphology is one and BOEF is the other?

I believe you are right. Nymphology does have Alchemy as it's own skill still while BoEF has it as part of Craft.

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 11:16 PM
I believe you are right. Nymphology does have Alchemy as it's own skill still while BoEF has it as part of Craft.

I think he meant that they're the two sacrifices, but that may be a misinterpretation.

WinWin
2010-10-10, 03:28 AM
I manged to come up with a basic build premise

Gnome Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Eunuch Warlock 8

Heightened, Silent, Double Extended, Maximised Shadow Illusions for the win. Rather than picking a specific conjuration or evocation to buff, why not have them all? Add in sanctum spell and Arcane Disciple...You know where I'm going with this.

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 10:11 AM
I manged to come up with a basic build premise

Gnome Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Eunuch Warlock 8

Heightened, Silent, Double Extended, Maximised Shadow Illusions for the win. Rather than picking a specific conjuration or evocation to buff, why not have them all? Add in sanctum spell and Arcane Disciple...You know where I'm going with this.

A fun build...what's giving the Double Extend? I see one Extend from Shadowcraft Mage, but unless I read the wrong thing Master Specialist raises the save DC, not the duration. Maximize would be a capstone for the build, but Empower would still be a nice toy, gained at level 15. You could also drop the last two Shadowcraft Mage levels to lose the Extend and 20% of the spell's strength but potentially gain an Empowered and Maximized Shadow Illusion, which might be worth it depending on your goals (and given that you Will disbelief save DC is 4 points higher than the norm for your level, a little less reality isn't a horrible thing).

Bonus points for being a Gnome Eunuch.

Tiki Snakes
2010-10-10, 11:10 AM
Thought; The requirement is Evil (really, the Emperor REQUIRES his Vizier to be Evil? Isn't it inevitable enough already?), not Lawful.

So isn't it entirely within flavour of the class to somehow con, cheat or force your way into the required organisation without making...those two sacrifices? :smallwink:

herrhauptmann
2010-10-10, 11:21 AM
Thought; The requirement is Evil (really, the Emperor REQUIRES his Vizier to be Evil? Isn't it inevitable enough already?), not Lawful.

So isn't it entirely within flavour of the class to somehow con, cheat or force your way into the required organisation without making...those two sacrifices? :smallwink:

Yes but he'd first have to be in the eunuch workforce before he could get the training and opportunity to be vizier. When he's lacking in that training, he's lackign the ability to cheat/force his way into the job without making the sacrifice. Plus I'm pretty sure it's common to snip them at the start of puberty.
More likely, after becoming the vizier, he'd have the opportunity to seek out a priest to have them regrown.

Morph Bark
2010-10-10, 11:26 AM
Imagine a Half-Red dragon War Troll eunuch. :smallamused:

WinWin
2010-10-10, 11:27 AM
Shadowcraft Magi get an ability called extended illusion. It works like a free extend spell, but can specifically stack with the metamagic feat, extend spell.

The premise was that a Silent Image would benefit from the Eunuch's Mighty Spell. Thanks to Heighten Spell, it can easlily fill any spell slot and benefit from the Shadowcraft Mage's shadow illusion ability to reproduce any wizard/sorcerer evocation, conjuration (creation) or conjuration (summoning).

The use of Sanctum Spell means that the Eunuch could theoreticly reproduce 9th level conjurations or evocations. This is nothing new. Neither is the free metamagic boost. Arcane disciple is simply a method of gaining more conjurations or evocations added to the Eunuch's spell list. Access to Miracle, a cleric Evocation, would be ideal. The Eunuch could then use a Mighty Silent Image to reproduce a Miracle that reproduces a Maximised/Empowered cleric spell of up to 8th level. You just need to worship an Evil Luck deity...I think the basics of Shadowcraft trickery were posted on 339, though I can't seem to find the link. I do not want to give the impression that this is an orginal idea by me.

I briefly considered the Spell domain, but Anyspell and Greater Anyspell would be dubious candidates for Mighty Spell due to the way they function.

Shadowcraft mage is not needed for this, it is just optimal. Choosing Shadow Evocation or Shadow Conjuration as Mighty Spells will net a lot of mileage. Shadowcrafting gets even more mileage.

As for optimising other aspects of Eunuch Warlock, I am at a loss. The other class feature seem fairly solid.

Tiki Snakes
2010-10-10, 11:28 AM
Yes but he'd first have to be in the eunuch workforce before he could get the training and opportunity to be vizier. When he's lacking in that training, he's lackign the ability to cheat/force his way into the job without making the sacrifice. Plus I'm pretty sure it's common to snip them at the start of puberty.
More likely, after becoming the vizier, he'd have the opportunity to seek out a priest to have them regrown.

But it's a PRC that you need to be reasonably high level to enter.
I am not really convinced that a spellcaster capable of casting 5th level arcane spells would have any business slumming around as part of a 'eunuch workforce' in his spare time. :smallwink:

And given that he's likely been Evil for a reasonably long time anyway, isn't it entirely believable that he'd have cheated, conned or forced his way into the 'Eunuch Workforce' in the first place?

subject42
2010-10-10, 11:40 AM
I think going sorcerer or somehow manage to get Flurry of wings as a wizard, might be an option to considerate.

Can't you also use versatile spellcaster for early entry into a prestige class? If so, a sorcerer specializing in wings of flurry could be a monster with this prestige class.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-10, 11:41 AM
But it's a PRC that you need to be reasonably high level to enter.
I am not really convinced that a spellcaster capable of casting 5th level arcane spells would have any business slumming around as part of a 'eunuch workforce' in his spare time. :smallwink:

And given that he's likely been Evil for a reasonably long time anyway, isn't it entirely believable that he'd have cheated, conned or forced his way into the 'Eunuch Workforce' in the first place?

But he'd have to be in teh eunuch workforce before he gets the wizard training. So at commoner level 1. You know, when freshly cut.
Of course as an evil 13 year old, he could attempt to fake having been cut, and thus sneak into the eunuch labor pool. But someone would probably notice when just one eunuch seems to be undergoing full puberty.

WinWin
2010-10-10, 11:45 AM
But it's a PRC that you need to be reasonably high level to enter.
I am not really convinced that a spellcaster capable of casting 5th level arcane spells would have any business slumming around as part of a 'eunuch workforce' in his spare time. :smallwink:

And given that he's likely been Evil for a reasonably long time anyway, isn't it entirely believable that he'd have cheated, conned or forced his way into the 'Eunuch Workforce' in the first place?

Once he has qualified, which could be as simple as Alter Self, he is now a Eunuch Warlock. Unlike feats, you do not need to retain PrC prerequisites in order to retain the benefits. Prestige Paladin and Knight Protector are exeptions that immediately come to mind.

I think it would make an interesting campaign villain. A 'Eunuch' advisor of the local ruler that secretly plots to usurp rulership and start a dynasty.

I agree that the requirements are a little silly and can be circumvented by a skilled mage. That does not neccesarily mean that every Eunuch somehow 'restores' themselves or fakes an injury. Some may believe that their power stems from their sacrifice.

flabort
2010-10-10, 01:41 PM
Imagine a Half-Red dragon War Troll eunuch. :smallamused:

Them Reddie's get around, they do. To bad they don't like it when their kids do...

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 06:11 PM
Imagine a Half-Red dragon War Troll eunuch. :smallamused:

Do you mean Half-Black dragon? Or is there something the Red is giving besides Fire immunity (which the War Troll doesn't need)?

Morph Bark
2010-10-10, 06:40 PM
Do you mean Half-Black dragon? Or is there something the Red is giving besides Fire immunity (which the War Troll doesn't need)?

I kind of forgot whether it was acid or fire that could get through their regeneration. I guess I chose the wrong one then.

Either way, since castration's prettymuch done with sharp objects, trolls will need to have a device between their legs that keeps on snipping after every time they regenerate. Otherwise it's the boot for them, or the pit full of rabid animals, and if we're talking eunuch warlocks they'd also lose out on a good lot of spellcasting and their followers would turn against them... not very nice either.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-10, 08:58 PM
That is the worst bureaucracy ever. "Please fill out forms 1024A and C, 487B, and 315Q, then go stand in Line 4 to make use of Castration Machine 4A." *stamp stamp* "Have an organized day!"

Damn. That's a society that makes chaotic evil look pretty darned appealing.

Veros
2010-10-10, 09:08 PM
{scrubbed}

Kensen
2010-10-11, 01:19 AM
If we're talking about serious optimization here, it isn't much of a sacrifice to lose the family jewels. By RAW, what do you lose?

People are willing to take flaws like murky-eyed, shaky, etc. because 99% of the time, the "sacrifices" don't affect their combat ability, and by RAW the flaws don't even incur any penalties to social interaction. Losing the jewels never affects your combat ability, so it's even better. It should be a flaw in UA! It would be a no-brainer in games where flaws are allowed.

Most undead characters also lose them for all intents and purposes, but that doesn't stop optimizers from becoming undead if it makes the build better. Also, if you're a wizard and you've dumped your Cha, it's not like you're going to use them unless you summon help.

In short, PCs lose absolutely nothing.

(I'm joking, of course. :smallbiggrin:)

Morph Bark
2010-10-11, 03:20 AM
{{scrubbed}}

Eunuchs being "born" could just be an extension of the terminology, like how some people are "born" politicians and such. Plus, eunuchs were castrated usually at an early enough age to have very clear hormonal consequences, so it is not unlikely they could even have been snipped soon after birth.

Plus, if you'd define "castrated" (or, well, "eunuch") as "gay" and after being done with Eunuch Warlock they'd become/return to being heterosexual, they'd lose the benefits of the class because they no longer possess the necessary prerequisites.

WinWin
2010-10-11, 03:43 AM
Plus, if you'd define "castrated" (or, well, "eunuch") as "gay" and after being done with Eunuch Warlock they'd become/return to being heterosexual, they'd lose the benefits of the class because they no longer possess the necessary prerequisites.

Can I get a reference for that? I know about feat prerequisistes, but where are the details on PrC prerequisites?

Urpriest
2010-10-11, 12:03 PM
Can I get a reference for that? I know about feat prerequisistes, but where are the details on PrC prerequisites?

Complete Warrior, at the very least. It is then frequently argued that this only applies to the prestige classes presented in Complete Warrior. Suffice it to say that this is a contentious topic, and I doubt M-Bark has anything to say about the topic that you have not already heard and refuted/disregarded (depending on whose point of view we're using here).

Anyway, cheating to be a member of the class loses you all the fun things you get from being an Eunuch. The story idea of a "eunuch" adviser secretly plotting to form his own dynasty is cool, but in general if you want to play a Eunuch Warlock without being an Eunuch then I must question why you want to play a Eunuch Warlock at all.

Akal Saris
2010-10-11, 02:44 PM
Here's an optimized idea for the 3.0 version of the class:

Human Mystic Ranger 10/Eunuch Warlock 10
BAB +15, 25 5th-level spells from a list that doesn't go higher than 5th level anyhow.
Special cheese: Need to have your divine spells count as arcane. Can be done with a house-rule that Sword of the Arcane Order (C. Valor) allows you to do so with your wizard spells, or you can use 2 feats: Magical Training (PgTF) and Alternative Source Spell (Dragon Magazine #325), so you have 3 arcane cantrips and therefore the ability to cast all divine spells as arcane and vice versa.

Now, that's 25 spells at 5th level (or lower if desired) from the ranger spell list and the tiny extra 5th level spell list for mystic rangers. I'm not even sure what you'd maximize (summon monster?), but if you throw in sword of the arcane order then you could be casting Wiz spells while still having most of the goodies of a ranger.

Would it be broken? Well, 1-10 yes, after that it really depends on the build and the campaign. Having 25 iterations of Animal Growth and Summon Monster V is nice, but so is having Time Stop. Sadly, this build is actually pretty terrible with the 3.5 version of the class :P

Fax Celestis
2010-10-11, 02:52 PM
I'm not even sure what you'd maximize

Swift haste.

WinWin
2010-10-11, 04:08 PM
Complete Warrior, at the very least. It is then frequently argued that this only applies to the prestige classes presented in Complete Warrior. Suffice it to say that this is a contentious topic, and I doubt M-Bark has anything to say about the topic that you have not already heard and refuted/disregarded (depending on whose point of view we're using here).

Anyway, cheating to be a member of the class loses you all the fun things you get from being an Eunuch. The story idea of a "eunuch" adviser secretly plotting to form his own dynasty is cool, but in general if you want to play a Eunuch Warlock without being an Eunuch then I must question why you want to play a Eunuch Warlock at all.

From a RP perspective it makes perfect sense. Eunuchs are castrated so that they can't procreate. Historically, many advisors are from nobility or noble castes due to the literacy and edcucation requirmements. Castrating the sons of a rival noble family and forcing them to serve you is high up on the list of asshattery of some ancient cultures.

In a fantasy game, a Eunuch Warlock could easily be the scion of a fallen noble house or a bastard. The castration could be more of a political measure than anything else. Subverting the conditions of your PrC to take revenge makes perfect sense and fits in with the fluff of the class. They are evil, after all.

I should add that my only interest in the class is from a mechanics perspective. In a game, the RP requirements would be too difficult to qualify for. The mulilation costs your character nothing mechanically. However, membership of a special group does present RP problems in game.