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true_shinken
2010-10-09, 10:24 PM
I was rereading Hood today and it got me thinking on something.
Battle Jump only requires moving, not an action per se. Spring Attack sucks because you can only use one attack. If you use Spring Attack + Battle Jump, if you make a high enough Jump and if you have enough Speed, you get to full-attack and move away with impunity.

The race that works best for this in my opinion is Xeph. With an extra 30ft speed from Xeph Burst you get +12 to Jump checks and you will need those extra 30ft because each full-attack costs you 10-ft movement. Xeph also qualifies you for Up the Walls, which allows you to skip the Jump check if there is a wall nearby an enemy.

Getting skill mastery in Jump is much needed; with Dervish we could get it at ECL 6. Thief-Acrobat gets it at ECL 9 but the requirements are a lot nicer.

+30 Jump at level 6 is pretty doable - +5 Dex, +5 competence (Ring of Jumping or Boots of Striding and Springing), +9 ranks, +2 synergy, +12 burst of speed = +33 Jump or +37 with BoSaS because of the extra speed. If you really can't get a competence item, Skill Focus or Athletic (or was it Agile?) could get you that +31/30.

Of course, Leap of the Heavens helps a lot, otherwise you'll need to move 20ft before each Jump meaning you'll get very few per round.

Thoughts on this? Ways to make it earlier? It needs so many feats I think it can only be done by a Fighter, surprisingly.

Urpriest
2010-10-09, 10:28 PM
What's giving you Dex to Jump?

Tavar
2010-10-09, 10:29 PM
Where's Battle Jump located?

true_shinken
2010-10-09, 10:33 PM
What's giving you Dex to Jump?
Agile Athlete.


Where's Battle Jump located?
Unapproachable East.

jguy
2010-10-09, 11:19 PM
It seems that you can abuse the fact that this is a charge rather easily. All it takes is a level of barbarian for pounce and you are dealing double damage on a charge. With Leap of the Heavens you can take a standing jump for 10 feet easily while in melee, for a double damage full attack charge. I think this works anyway. Add in Leap Attack for extra damage goodness.

Greenish
2010-10-09, 11:25 PM
Agile Athlete.I wouldn't spent a feat. Boots of Agile Leaping (MIC) are only 600gp, if my memory serves, and also allow you to stand up from prone as a swift action (or was it free?) if you have some ranks in Balance.

[Edit]:
With Leap of the Heavens you can take a standing jump for 10 feet easily while in meleeWell, easy is relative. The DC to activate Battle Jump on a flat plane against a Medium-sized opponent is 40. Against Large, it'll be 60, and so forth…

jguy
2010-10-09, 11:33 PM
Well from what we see here, a +33 modifier is easy. Heck, just buy a Belt of Athleticism to take 10's on jump checks. Never fail a check ever. The modifier just keeps going up as you level too. Higher Dex or Strength Mod, turn that +5 competence into a +10, some more speed boosting items or spells. Heck, Haste cast on you is another +12 onto jump.

Greenish
2010-10-09, 11:40 PM
Well from what we see here, a +33 modifier is easy.As I said, "easy" is relative.

Anyhow, instead of the Spring Attack chain, you could dip cleric for Travel Devotion, and by some readings the Charge from Battle Jump is a non-action, meaning you could use it and two move actions on the same round.

Skorj
2010-10-09, 11:44 PM
Well from what we see here, a +33 modifier is easy. Heck, just buy a Belt of Athleticism to take 10's on jump checks. Never fail a check ever. The modifier just keeps going up as you level too. Higher Dex or Strength Mod, turn that +5 competence into a +10, some more speed boosting items or spells. Heck, Haste cast on you is another +12 onto jump.

You can't really Take 10 in combat like that. In any case, I believe 1 level of Lion Totem Barb is the usual way of getting move+full atack for uberchargers.

Greenish
2010-10-09, 11:50 PM
You can't really Take 10 in combat like that. In any case, I believe 1 level of Lion Totem Barb is the usual way of getting move+full atack for uberchargers.Spirit Lion totem, to be precise (since it has caused confusion before).

There's an even easier way by RAW: Psionic Tattoo (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm) of Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm) is mere 300gp.

jguy
2010-10-10, 04:02 AM
You can't really Take 10 in combat like that. In any case, I believe 1 level of Lion Totem Barb is the usual way of getting move+full atack for uberchargers.

The belt itself allows you to take a 10 even in stressful situations, so yes, you are allowed to in combat. Otherwise it would be a pointless item.

FMArthur
2010-10-10, 12:55 PM
Spirit Lion totem, to be precise (since it has caused confusion before).

There's an even easier way by RAW: Psionic Tattoo (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm) of Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm) is mere 300gp.

What makes you think this is easier? 300gp for each use - which you can only store 20 of - doesn't sound like a good deal by any stretch. You could probably work something out with the stuff on this page, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) and sustain it with multiple Capacitors, but you'd still wind up with a low number of charges/day for a lot of money.

Greenish
2010-10-10, 12:56 PM
What makes you think this is easier?Abusing RAW. Look at Psionic Lion's Charge's duration. :smallwink:

true_shinken
2010-10-11, 12:54 AM
Abusing RAW. Look at Psionic Lion's Charge's duration. :smallwink:

:smalleek: This is like saying 'play Pun-Pun instead'.
Something that won't be accepted in any table is not worth of mention.

Fax Celestis
2010-10-11, 08:21 AM
The race that works best for this in my opinion is Xeph.

I wouldn't think so. I'd say Thri-Kreen work better. Not only do they get better full-attacks from having their normal routine, then following up with three (or four, depending) natural attacks, they also get a +30 racial bonus to jump. They can be found as low as 2RHD, +1 LA (for the psionic-less type).

Dusk Eclipse
2010-10-11, 08:27 AM
A non-psionic thri kriin RHD 2/ spirit lion barb 1/scout 3/ Ranger 14 (using LA buy off) seems a nice and relatively simple choice.... wield a 2hander and make your full attak routine plus 2 claws and a bite attack..... trying to fin rapid blitz and bounding assault might be an interesting option

Chambers
2010-10-11, 09:47 AM
If you use Spring Attack + Battle Jump, if you make a high enough Jump and if you have enough Speed, you get to full-attack and move away with impunity.

I'm unclear on how you get a full attack when you're spring attacking. Is it something like a pounce ability, where you get a full attack on a charge, and then use the Battle Jump to count the movement as a charge? That right there would work by itself, but adding in Spring Attack to move after the full attack seems to me to be against the RAI of SA.

true_shinken
2010-10-11, 01:23 PM
I wouldn't think so. I'd say Thri-Kreen work better. Not only do they get better full-attacks from having their normal routine, then following up with three (or four, depending) natural attacks, they also get a +30 racial bonus to jump. They can be found as low as 2RHD, +1 LA (for the psionic-less type).

I think being three levels behind sucks quite a lot, but maybe that's just me.
Of course, this is all considering you have a forgiving DM that allows you to be a xeph raised by the man-eating taers and all.
Or maybe you are a DM reflavoring a feat for your game (I'm thinking of making it a xeph regional feat in my world).


I'm unclear on how you get a full attack when you're spring attacking. Is it something like a pounce ability, where you get a full attack on a charge, and then use the Battle Jump to count the movement as a charge? That right there would work by itself, but adding in Spring Attack to move after the full attack seems to me to be against the RAI of SA.

Yeah, you need pounce. Actually, you wouldn't really need Spring Attack per se if the movement by itself triggers charges from Battle Jump (the best option would be to run and even take the Run feat, since it would give you more movement and more attacks).
With Spring Attack, you move, make full-attacks from your movement, make your attack from SA and then move back into safety.
I think using Spring Attack is actually the less cheesy option.

Chambers
2010-10-11, 01:57 PM
Yeah, you need pounce. Actually, you wouldn't really need Spring Attack per se if the movement by itself triggers charges from Battle Jump (the best option would be to run and even take the Run feat, since it would give you more movement and more attacks).
With Spring Attack, you move, make full-attacks from your movement, make your attack from SA and then move back into safety.
I think using Spring Attack is actually the less cheesy option.

I don't think you get that extra, single attack. What is happening here is that you are using Spring Attack, so you get to move, attack, and move. As part of the move you jump, activating Battle Jump.

Battle Jump turns the attack you make as part of Spring Attack into a charge, then you move again.

Pounce turns that single charge into a full-attack. Nowhere in the interaction of the three abilities do I see the character gaining a free attack - instead, the attack you make when you spring attack is simply turned into a full attack.

Urpriest
2010-10-11, 04:57 PM
I don't think you get that extra, single attack. What is happening here is that you are using Spring Attack, so you get to move, attack, and move. As part of the move you jump, activating Battle Jump.

Battle Jump turns the attack you make as part of Spring Attack into a charge, then you move again.

Pounce turns that single charge into a full-attack. Nowhere in the interaction of the three abilities do I see the character gaining a free attack - instead, the attack you make when you spring attack is simply turned into a full attack.

No, no no.

Battle Jump turns the MOVE into a charge. It doesn't turn the attack into a charge.