Durkon's Homecoming [Theory; some spoilers]

[Hawk7915]

Everyone's talking about how Belkar is going to die soon, and discussing how, why, and if he's going to weasel out of it as an undead or something. But as we get about one-third of the way through this "Western Continet" arc, another death weighs heavily on my mind. A death that might actually, depending on time-frame, happen before Belkar's even.


I think Durkon will die by the end of the arc.

The evidence:

1) The Final gate is in Northern lands; the Dwarven lands.

2) Durkon will be returning home "posthumously".

Now, that's not enough of it's own: they could avoid any major cities until the gate, and our "epilogue" could be Durkon's raising/funeral after the final battle. Except for one major snafu...

Origin of PCs SPOILERS: Durkon's return will bring about great disaster for the Dwarven people. Specifically, the high priest of Odin says "when next Durkon returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all"

Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, if the big bad is defeated and the world saved when Durkon dies. No, he'll need to pass on before the end of the tale. What makes most sense, then, is for Durkon to die in this arc. Malach either becomes hostile or dies as well, so the order decides to take him to his homeland...either for a proper Dwarven burial, or to see if the High Priest of Thor will raise him. But with Team Evil in pursuit, the Dwarves will face a deadly enemy that threatens to wipe them off the map.

Thoughts?

[Ranylyn]

My thoughts are in spoilers.

I wouldn't be surprised if Durkon was resurrected once in the dwarven lands. Yes, he'd arrive dead, but as Roy proved, so long as there's anything left of a body and a soul willing to return, it's possible.

Of course... I'm drawing a blank on the destruction thing. It could simply be that Xykon followed them, or the Monster In the Darkness, or whatnot, or perhaps there's something deeper. Wouldn't it be funny if that female cleric whose name I forgot from earlier in the comic destroyed everything to kill her husband and finally try to win Durkon ever again? Gotta admit, that would possibly be linked to his return!

[Ancalagon]

Thoughts?

It's one of the most common theories about this. So yes, it sounds quite probable to me.

[Kareasint]

My thoughts are in spoilers.

I wouldn't be surprised if Durkon was resurrected once in the dwarven lands. Yes, he'd arrive dead, but as Roy proved, so long as there's anything left of a body and a soul willing to return, it's possible.

Of course... I'm drawing a blank on the destruction thing. It could simply be that Xykon followed them, or the Monster In the Darkness, or whatnot, or perhaps there's something deeper. Wouldn't it be funny if that female cleric whose name I forgot from earlier in the comic destroyed everything to kill her husband and finally try to win Durkon ever again? Gotta admit, that would possibly be linked to his return!

Hilgya was her name. She could definitely be the caster of the resurrection.

[hamishspence]

My default theory involved:

Durkon being killed (and the Snarl being released) at Kraagor's gate (which is depicted as in a snowy environment- a bit like Durkon's home in Origin of PCs) and the Order flee, with Durkon's body, to what turns out to be Durkon's home, with the Snarl in pursuit.

[Hawk7915]

First off; sorry if this theory is pretty well-circulated here. I thought I followed these forums pretty closely and hadn't seen it mentioned, but the writing has been on the wall since the last Oracle visit (before my time) I guess :smallredface:.


My default theory involved:

Durkon being killed (and the Snarl being released) at Kraagor's gate (which is depicted as in a snowy environment- a bit like Durkon's home in Origin of PCs) and the Order flee, with Durkon's body, to what turns out to be Durkon's home, with the Snarl in pursuit.

I thought of that, but if that happens it feels like the heroes will have failed and the Snarl, not Xykon and Redcloak, will be the "final boss". Admittedly this isn't impossible; but I can't envision a way this would play out without it being somewhat anticlimactic. That's just, like, my opinion though :smallsmile:

[Xykeb Zraliv]

I thought of that, but if that happens it feels like the heroes will have failed and the Snarl, not Xykon and Redcloak, will be the "final boss". Admittedly this isn't impossible; but I can't envision a way this would play out without it being somewhat anticlimactic. That's just, like, my opinion though :smallsmile:

.......How would attempting to defeat a world-destroying, god-killing beast of pure destruction which the entire story revolves around the hypothetical release of be anticlimactic compared to a battle with a sorceror and a cleric (well, very powerful ones, but still)? :smallconfused:

Well, admittedly we won't have the "personal grudge against the villain" thing we have with Roy and Xykon, I guess... But I dunno, there's only so far you can go with that sort of thing.

[Leecros]

My default theory involved:

Durkon being killed (and the Snarl being released) at Kraagor's gate (which is depicted as in a snowy environment- a bit like Durkon's home in Origin of PCs) and the Order flee, with Durkon's body, to what turns out to be Durkon's home, with the Snarl in pursuit.

Would the Snarl be able to pursuit without obliterating the planet?

I mean its possible its weakened to a state where its just an epic level boss...we don't really know what changes have occurred with it since what blackwing saw in the rift wasn't expected...but it kind of obliterated a planet rather quickly in the past...would it bother with the OotS?

[Dr.Epic]

It's one of the most common theories about this. So yes, it sounds quite probable to me.

Yeap, a lot of people think that's what's going to happen. However, Has it actually been stated his gate is in dwarven lands and not just far north?

[Xykeb Zraliv]

Yeap, a lot of people think that's what's going to happen. However, Has it actually been stated his gate is in dwarven lands and not just far north?

I don't believe so, but considering the circumstances, it's a very reasonable assumption that they are at least close enough that the subject of Durkon's return will feature prominently during that particular story arc.

[Dr.Epic]

I don't believe so, but considering the circumstances, it's a very reasonable assumption that they are at least close enough that the subject of Durkon's return will feature prominently during that particular story arc.

Or the Giant is trying to mislead us because that's never happened.

[Xykeb Zraliv]

Or the Giant is trying to mislead us because that's never happened.

Well, yeah. Which is why it's just an assumption.

[Uncertainty]

I think Durkon will die by the end of the arc.

The evidence:

1) The Final gate is in Northern lands; the Dwarven lands.

2) Durkon will be returning home "posthumously".

Now, that's not enough of it's own: they could avoid any major cities until the gate, and our "epilogue" could be Durkon's raising/funeral after the final battle. Except for one major snafu...

Origin of PCs SPOILERS: Durkon's return will bring about great disaster for the Dwarven people. Specifically, the high priest of Odin says "when next Durkon returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all"

Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, if the big bad is defeated and the world saved when Durkon dies. No, he'll need to pass on before the end of the tale. What makes most sense, then, is for Durkon to die in this arc. Malach either becomes hostile or dies as well, so the order decides to take him to his homeland...either for a proper Dwarven burial, or to see if the High Priest of Thor will raise him. But with Team Evil in pursuit, the Dwarves will face a deadly enemy that threatens to wipe them off the map.

Thoughts?

Sorry if this is a stupid question (I don't keep up with the Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees), and search is not finding much for me)... But isn't it possible that the 'Death and Destruction' in the prophecy has nothing to do with a disaster at all?

Specifically, Durkon has recently befriended a High Priest of the god Nergal, a neutral god of Death and Destruction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) from the western pantheon. Couldn't the prophecy be referring to something much simpler - such as Malack following the Order back to the dwarven homelands to help them on their quest (Possibly at Durkon's behest/in Durkon's place if he is dead)?

It would certainly be a twist of the original expectations for the prophecy; and thus, pretty in keeping with how the Giant likes to mislead his audience on things like this (as someone put it earlier).

[Swordpriest]

Sorry if this is a stupid question (I don't keep up with the Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees), and search is not finding much for me)... But isn't it possible that the 'Death and Destruction' in the prophecy has nothing to do with a disaster at all?

Specifically, Durkon has recently befriended a High Priest of the god Nergal, a neutral god of Death and Destruction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) from the western pantheon. Couldn't the prophecy be referring to something much simpler - such as Malack following the Order back to the dwarven homelands to help them on their quest (Possibly at Durkon's behest/in Durkon's place if he is dead)?

It would certainly be a twist of the original expectations for the prophecy; and thus, pretty in keeping with how the Giant likes to mislead his audience on things like this (as someone put it earlier).

That's a pretty nifty solution, actually -- and it really would fit the prophecy. After all, the prophecies in OotS are usually realized in some unexpected way. It's probably not this either, but if it turns out to be a reference to Malack, then that would be interesting. Also, good job on coming up with a variant on the prophecy which is unusual, yet fits the facts! :smallsmile:

[Uncertainty]

That's a pretty nifty solution, actually -- and it really would fit the prophecy. After all, the prophecies in OotS are usually realized in some unexpected way. It's probably not this either, but if it turns out to be a reference to Malack, then that would be interesting. Also, good job on coming up with a variant on the prophecy which is unusual, yet fits the facts! :smallsmile:

Hehe, thanks :smallredface:. I first thought of it when that strip came out, but I did not have an account then... Figured somebody would have pointed it out by now.

[Moogleking]

I'm calling Zombie-Durkon; He'll die at the next gate and Xykon/Redcloak/Tsukiko/IFCC Zombify him. He is then part of the gang attacking Kraagor's Gate, on the heels of the Order. Cue dramatic stuff.

[Swordpriest]

I'm calling Zombie-Durkon; He'll die at the next gate and Xykon/Redcloak/Tsukiko/IFCC Zombify him. He is then part of the gang attacking Kraagor's Gate, on the heels of the Order. Cue dramatic stuff.

The only problem with this idea is, that if Belkar also bites it, the Order's going to be gutted -- one of their damage people down, and no healing or buffing. So, if the zombie Durkon theory's correct, they're going to need to pick up several new members before they can have a chance of contributing meaningfully to the showdown. Not impossible, of course, but it's still a complication and highly unpredictable from our standpoint -- that of readers rather than the author.

[Morgan Wick]

Sorry if this is a stupid question (I don't keep up with the Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees), and search is not finding much for me)... But isn't it possible that the 'Death and Destruction' in the prophecy has nothing to do with a disaster at all?

Specifically, Durkon has recently befriended a High Priest of the god Nergal, a neutral god of Death and Destruction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) from the western pantheon. Couldn't the prophecy be referring to something much simpler - such as Malack following the Order back to the dwarven homelands to help them on their quest (Possibly at Durkon's behest/in Durkon's place if he is dead)?

It would certainly be a twist of the original expectations for the prophecy; and thus, pretty in keeping with how the Giant likes to mislead his audience on things like this (as someone put it earlier).

It's certainly a very interesting theory... but the prophecy said "death and destruction for us all", and that last part is hard to justify.

[Uncertainty]

It's certainly a very interesting theory... but the prophecy said "death and destruction for us all", and that last part is hard to justify.

True enough. But it is still a pretty striking coincidence, I think.

Durkon and Malack seem to be finding a lot of common ground in terms of their respective religions (I seem to remember Durkon borrowing an interesting religious text (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html) from Malack recently, and being given advice about integrating it into his own theology.) Perhaps Malack journeying to the Dwarven lands as some kind of emissary or missionary (to form an alliance, if not to convert people) could justify that wording of the prophecy?

Bah, I guess I am getting into a bit of wild mass guessing myself here :smallsigh:. Might be worth keeping in mind, at least.

[Hawk7915]

True enough. But it is still a pretty striking coincidence, I think.

Durkon and Malack seem to be finding a lot of common ground in terms of their respective religions (I seem to remember Durkon borrowing an interesting religious text (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html) from Malack recently, and being given advice about integrating it into his own theology.) Perhaps Malack journeying to the Dwarven lands as some kind of emissary or missionary (to form an alliance, if not to convert people) could justify that wording of the prophecy?

Bah, I guess I am getting into a bit of wild mass guessing myself here :smallsigh:. Might be worth keeping in mind, at least.

Ooooh, I like this theory way better than the standard one! :smallbiggrin:. As Morgan Wild pointed out there are some problems with it, but as you said Malack as a missionary who converts dwarven people or worse yet convinces them to give Hel (their own Goddess of Death and Destruction) proper dues and respect might qualify. In general, a greater intermingling of faith between kingdoms which is sort of a big no-no in the OotS-verse might be construed as "death and destruction for us all" ("us all" in this case might even mean the Northern Pantheon, and not the dwarves per se).

On the one hand, the Oracle's prophecies so far haven't been that obtuse (The Oracle delivered a nice "Take that!" at all the epileptic trees around Belkar's prophecy, and it turned out to be fairly mundane) so this is a bit of a stretch. But this is Odin's prophecy, so that's a bit different. And on the other hand, the wording of Malach's domains and God seems too specific to be an accident.

Good catch!

[JonestheSpy]

Hmmm, never thought of the Malack angle, it could be possible.

Could also be both - if Durkon dies, the Order will need a cleric, and Malack would be a very interesting candidate, and could accompany them up to the Dwarven lands.

[Ancalagon]

Yeap, a lot of people think that's what's going to happen. However, Has it actually been stated his gate is in dwarven lands and not just far north?

No. But I think it's likely enough the gate is "at least close enough to the dwarven lands".

If it's not IN the lands, it's enough the lands are the next best thing to get Durkon back on his feet, so... the exact geographical relation of the gate and the dwarven lands do not matter unless they are "too far" apart. Something that seems unlikely to me.

As you see... lots of personal estimations in there above. Share or don't share them to your personal preference.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Each member of the party that made the gates took responsibility for the one nearest his or her homeland, so Kraagor's gate, if not IN dwarven lands, is at least the closest gate to them.