My First Beguiler

[Crescent Crux]

I'm working on a character for some future plans, though really this is getting out my creative character making fleshed out. I and trying to make a semi-decent Beguiler working with his main illusion and charm skills as well as some sword skills. I am working him from a semi-custom race which I'll post in a bit. Now I understand a beguiler is not truly meant for up close combat, but I'd like him to be able to do a little hit and run or one on one capability. Right now I only have one other class chosen, I'd like to not stray too far into many other classes; at most one if I can manage, or just use the two I have set up in my head for him. Now I'm mostly using the core books and a few others for most of this, but there are a feat or two I plan to use, which I'll post after I post some of the rest. I'm pre-planning a character so when It comes time to use him I'm prepared more then I have been. I also can concentrate a tad more with his role playing then on his classes levels and such.

Edit: Clearing up my mental babble: Parrents are an Elf, and a half-orc. He is a Half-Elf/Orc Mutt.
The stats are as follows:

+1 str +2 dex
Medium Size.
Land speed 30
Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
Darkvision out to 60 feet
Weapon Proficiency: Half Elf/Orc receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
+2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.
Mix Blood: For all Effects related to race, a Half-breed is an Orc or Elven.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, and Orc. Bonus: Dwarven, Gnoll, Sylvan, Giant, Draconic
Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass Half-Elf/Orc takes an experience point penalty, her highest-level class does not count.

Nothing too powerful, but you can see I'm trying to lead him into using a longsword; now this is a little wonky seeing as I'd like him to use weapon Finess, but First the classes:

Beguiler - derp, I'm choosing this class mostly because I plan to do more role-play then I do combat, plus I like the idea of Illusions and charms to mess with others.
Nightmare Spinner- 5 levels, adds +4 levels of spells, immunity to fear, and can kill a person.... yea I like this class with Beguiler.

other classes I'm eying but not sure if I even want, I'd like to think just the first two are fairly good together:
Duelist- I'd loose some spell casting for more melee, a little edgy on that idea.
Duskblade- adding combat/magic to a high illusion caster. again I'm very iffy on this.
Abjurant Champion- adds a touch of melee finesse into the mix; plus could use when I hit spell level 3.


Alright now here are the feats I'm looking unto for even just my two classes. though not the only ones I might consider:

Aura of Bravery
[General] (DR323 p96)
— All allies within 10’ of you gain a +2 Morale bonus on saves vs. Fear as long as you are not affected by the
Fear effect. You do not receive the bonus.
-Note: With Immunity to fear from Nightmare... you can see why I like this idea!

Subduing Strike
[General, Fighter] (BoED p46)
— You may deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon without taking a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
If you have Sneak Attack dice, you may do nonlethal Sneak Attack damage with any weapon
-Note: Lethal isn't always an option right? not a big one on my list but a nice usage.


Weapon Finesse
[General, Fighter]
(PH p102)
Base Attack Bonus +1 Use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier as the bonus to your melee attacks when
using any Light Weapon, a Rapier, a Spiked Chain, or a Whip. (note: this feat now applies to all
appropriate weapons).

Weapon Focus
[General, Fighter]
(PH p102)
Base Attack Bonus +1
Proficiency with the
chosen weapon
Gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with the chosen weapon.
You may take this feat with Unarmed Attacks, Ranged Spells, Grapple, or even a Natural Attack.

Graceful Edge
[General, Fighter]
(DU128 p44)
Base Attack Bonus +1
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus with the
chosen One-Handed
Slashing weapon
When fighting with the chosen weapon in your primary hand and no weapon or shield in your off-hand,
receive the following benefits:
a) treat the chosen weapon as ‘Light’ (i.e., Weapon Finesse applies to it);
b) receive a +1 Shield bonus to AC; and
c) if Fighting Defensively or using Total Defense, receive a +2 Shield bonus to AC.
-note: These three in combination, plus a longsword from racial you can see I might think of defensive playing using high AC from things like this. And the last one says no weapon or shield... but no mention of a wand!

Combat Expertise [General]
Int 13.
When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
-Note: Mostly for +5 ac.

Improved Feint
[General, Fighter] (PH p95)
Intelligence 13
Combat Expertise You may make a Feint in Combat as a Move Action (instead of a Full Round Action).

Dodge
[General, Fighter, Scout] (PH p93)
(CAdv p10)+
Dexterity 13
During your action, you may specify one opponent against which you gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC until
your next action. If you lose your Dex bonus to AC for any reason, you also lose your Dodge bonus.

Mobility
[General, Fighter, Scout] (PH p98)
(CAdv p10)+
Dexterity 13
Dodge
+4 Dodge bonus to AC vs. Attacks of Opportunity due to moving out of or within a threatened area. Any
condition that could cause you to lose your Dexterity bonus to AC against an attack causes you to lose this
bonus too.



You can see my plans for combat feats to counter some weakness of the class; but I am also looking at some magic feats and such as well. Well you can see what I have though on so can anyone give me some suggestions or tips?

[Jayabalard]

Long story short he is a Half elf, one third half-orc. (( aka elf + half orc = 1/2 elf+1/3 orc + 1/6 human)) The stats are as follows:Sorry to get fixated on a detail... but how are you 1/3 anything? In general, that's not how heredity/genetics works; as long as you're talking about species with 2 sexes (male/female), the denominator should always be a power of 2.

[Crescent Crux]

was just stating how the character parenteral races divided into his own. Obviously hes just a Mutt really.

[Jayabalard]

Feats:
-Dazzling Illusion (complete mage), adds a dazzle effect to your illusions, requires spell focus illusion.
-Song of the Dead (I forget where): metamagic feat, lets your mind effecting spells affect intelligent undead for +1 spell level.
-Mastery of Dreams: increases dc of illusions an fear spells by 1.

Subduing strike looks sketchy... if you need to handle a situation without doing lethal damage, you're probably better off stick to spells.


was just stating how the character parenteral races divided into his own. Obviously hes just a Mutt really.I'm not objecting to the mutt part, I'm just saying that I don't understand how you can be 1/3 something; if you look at what proportions you get from parents/grandparents/etc, it should be a power of 2 (1/2, x/4, x/8, x/16, etc). So, for example, if your grandparents are 2 elves, an orc and a half orc, you'd be 1/2 elf, 3/8 orc, and 1/8 human.

[Grynning]

It seems like you're fixated mostly on melee feats. If you want your character to fight in melee, I suggest NOT being a Beguiler...they have the worst BAB and are meant as support and debuffing spellcasters, not warriors. You'll be of much more use to you party using your actions to cast spells instead of running up and missing.

If you want a caster/melee hybrid, just play a Duskblade, which are great fun. There's also tons of ways to build a gish (fighter/caster hybrid) with multiclassing, though beguiler isn't usually one of the classes one would use.
Paladin 2, Sorcerer 4, Spellsword 1, Abjurant Champion 5, Sacred Exorcist 8 is a common one that I like a lot.

If you really want to be a Beguiler who likes to mix it up, focus on using spells that disable enemies, like Color Spray, Glitterdust, the Whelm line, Hold person/monster, etc. Take feats like Spell Focus (Illusion) and other things that help your casting. Of the feats you listed, I honestly wouldn't take any of them.

[Crescent Crux]

Ah, I get your complaint now. I wasn't using genealogy for the fractions, just how they broke down in my head for his race; to be honest I really suck at fractions...

Yea, I could probably do a better feat then subduing strike.
one other feat I was inspecting:
Spectral Skirmisher
[General, Fighter]
(PH2 p83)
Base Attack Bonus +6 When you are Invisible, you gain the following benefits:
a) creatures who cannot see you receive a –5 penalty on Listen checks to hear you.
b) a creature attempting a melee attack against the square you are in generates an Attack of Opportunity.

Edit:

It seems like you're fixated mostly on melee feats. If you want your character to fight in melee, I suggest NOT being a Beguiler...they have the worst BAB and are meant as support and debuffing spellcasters, not warriors. You'll be of much more use to you party using your actions to cast spells instead of running up and missing.

If you want a caster/melee hybrid, just play a Duskblade, which are great fun. There's also tons of ways to build a gish (fighter/caster hybrid) with multiclassing, though beguiler isn't usually one of the classes one would use.
Paladin 2, Sorcerer 4, Spellsword 1, Abjurant Champion 5, Sacred Exorcist 8 is a common one that I like a lot.

If you really want to be a Beguiler who likes to mix it up, focus on using spells that disable enemies, like Color Spray, Glitterdust, the Whelm line, Hold person/monster, etc. Take feats like Spell Focus (Illusion) and other things that help your casting. Of the feats you listed, I honestly wouldn't take any of them.

True, I probaly should not concentrate as much on melee. But I am not going for just a strait up 'make this class the best it is.' I'm thinking of adding some of those melee skills but not all those I posted prior.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Making this class the best it can be involves some shenanigans we won't get into. Playing to the class' strengths (and intended style of play) is different. "Use your spells in combat" isn't some sort of powergaming advice; it's just making sure you contribute meaningfully.

A standard fireball-y wizard who avoids going into melee is just playing to his class, not tweaking the character into a fine-tuned killing machine. The same goes for a beguiler who uses his large array of enchantments and illusions in battle instead of throwing himself into the fray.

[Crescent Crux]

Making this class the best it can be involves some shenanigans we won't get into. Playing to the class' strengths (and intended style of play) is different. "Use your spells in combat" isn't some sort of powergaming advice; it's just making sure you contribute meaningfully.

A standard fireball-y wizard who avoids going into melee is just playing to his class, not tweaking the character into a fine-tuned killing machine. The same goes for a beguiler who uses his large array of enchantments and illusions in battle instead of throwing himself into the fray.

True enough; The main reason I had thought of using some melee was for surprise casting. Yes its a bad idea being a squishy class but I was thinking of how I could get some AC from defensive melee combat to use it in a semi-workable state.

[gorfnab]

I highly recommend reading through the Beguiler Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322.0). Lots of useful feats and general advice for building a Beguiler. Usually Beguilers and melee combat don't mix well, unless you can pull off some source of precision damage. Something like Beguiler 6/ Rogue or Spellthief 1/ Unseen Seer 2/ Beguiler X will net you 2d6 sneak attack by itself. The feat Craven (CoR) will net you character level sneak attack and the spell Hunters Eye (PHBII) gained through Unseen Seer's Advanced Learning will net 1d6/3CL sneak attack. This can actually mix with Feinting (Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Beguiler Surprise Casting, Surprising Riposte feat from Drow of the Underdark) to get you a more reliable form of melee damage. Also delaying the 7th level of Beguiler this way will net you Shadow Conjuration from the Beguiler Advanced Learning which is kinda nice too.

[Crescent Crux]

I highly recommend reading through the Beguiler Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322.0). Lots of useful feats and general advice for building a Beguiler. Usually Beguilers and melee combat don't mix well, unless you can pull off some source of precision damage. Something like Beguiler 6/ Rogue or Spellthief 1/ Unseen Seer 2/ Beguiler X will net you 2d6 sneak attack by itself. The feat Craven (CoR) will net you character level sneak attack and the spell Hunters Eye (PHBII) gained through Unseen Seer's Advanced Learning will net 1d6/3CL sneak attack. This can actually mix with Feinting (Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Surprise Casting) to get you a more reliable form of melee damage.

Thanks this is fairly useful, I've seen the duskblade one but not this one yet. Though a few of the magic feats in there were ones I was thinking on. I'd still like to see if I could try for a semi-high AC beguiler with defensive combat even if it isn't all in melee. Using flaws and such to gain most of the finesse and focus.
Edit: that is semi-high as in compared to what a regular Beguiler might have.

Other then what I've said so far the only other thing I'd think about getting is Leadership. Worth while for a beguiler at all?

[gorfnab]

Other then what I've said so far the only other thing I'd think about getting is Leadership. Worth while for a beguiler at all?
Leadership is always a good option for almost every character out there. Having a second character following you around and doing your bidding is great. With a Beguiler I would recommend some sort of tank to be your cohort. Crusaders make very nice tanks, plus they can heal, and it would make a great flanking buddy if you manage to get some sneak attack (White Raven Defense, Clarion Commander, Thicket of Blades, White Raven Tactics, Flanking Maneuver)

[Crescent Crux]

Well from reading over the guide I hear no mention of nightmare spinner; I personally think its a useful class combo but I guess I'll make a few versions of him to try and see how he does; testing with a few small combat rounds and such.

As for a cohort yea... meat shields that can heal would be worth it.

for stats I think my prioritys would look like this to start:
int: 16-18
Cha 14-16?
Wis: 13 <-- lots of skills need 13 wis for both what I'm thinking and what the guide suggests.
Dex 14
Str/con: whatever is left but con above Str...


I know a many of the spells are illusion and such but is there anyway to turn some of them into traps?

Example: Charm a foe, Phase door on the floor (( is that allowed?)), spider climb and let him drop.

[Darwin]

If your DM will allow it, Shadowcraft Magic from FRCS adds a +1 DC to both Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy spells. In addition it opens to a 2 level dip in Shadow Adept which has a wonderful synergy with the Beguiler Class.

Taking a level of Mindbender gives you access to the immensely powerful Mindsight feat as well as delaying you extra learned spell, making you able to pick higher level spells with it.

[gorfnab]

If your DM will allow it, Shadowcraft Magic from FRCS adds a +1 DC to both Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy spells.

Shadow Weave Magic - Player's Guide to Faerun - is the updated version.

[Crescent Crux]

If your DM will allow it, Shadowcraft Magic from FRCS adds a +1 DC to both Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy spells. In addition it opens to a 2 level dip in Shadow Adept which has a wonderful synergy with the Beguiler Class.

Taking a level of Mindbender gives you access to the immensely powerful Mindsight feat as well as delaying you extra learned spell, making you able to pick higher level spells with it.


I'd definitly check it out and ask. seeing as a few fear spells are Necro.