[3.5] Centaur Paladin? (And related question.)

[Drakevarg]

Just a thought experiment rather than intrinsically needed information. When a Centaur hit 5th level, how would they deal with their special mount? Would they just give themselves the mount bonuses, or would they have to use their mount more like an animal companion?

The "related questions" bit:

In my campaign setting, there are three main races: Orcs, Humans and Elves, and then six other "Elder Races," which Gruumsh and Corellon Larethian created while trying to come up with the best pieces for their cosmic game of chess. Gruumsh has three; Minotaurs, Gnolls, and Lizardfolk. Corellon Larethian has three; Centaurs, Harpies, and ???.

The "???" is my problem. Both of the gods have animals they identify with and based their Elder Races off of those. Gruumsh had bulls, wolves (Gnolls are wolves instead of hyenas because I said so.), and alligators. Corellon Larethian has horses, eagles (Harpies are eagles instead of bats because I said so.) and lions.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a decent feline race that doesn't either have the wrong crunch (Rakhasha have Sorcerer spells, which Corellon Larethian would never give them innately), or are Outsiders (Leonals).

The books I have access to are:

PHB
DMG
MM
Libris Mortis
Draconomicon
Manual of the Planes (3.0, but easy enough to convert.)
Complete Warrior
Complete Arcane

I'm sure there's something in other books that would work perfectly, but I've got a strict "don't own it in meatspace, don't use it" rule that limits me in that regard.

[WarKitty]

As far as the first question: how would it work to give a centaur paladin a special rider rather than a special mount? Like a sturdier familiar. It should probably be something that can't wield weapons though, or at least not proficient with something that does much damage.

[Grynning]

Just a thought experiment rather than intrinsically needed information. When a Centaur hit 5th level, how would they deal with their special mount? Would they just give themselves the mount bonuses, or would they have to use their mount more like an animal companion?


They would probably choose the Charging Smite ACF from PHBII. Not a terribly impressive benefit, but it does make smiting and charging more useful.

You could also use the Pathfinder Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin), which can get a magic weapon instead of a mount. The PF class is also just better overall. Pathfinder didn't do everything right, but it did do Pallies a world of good.

For the second part of your question, Catfolk (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Catfolk_%283.5e_Race%29) would fit the bill just fine.

[Greenish]

Centaur paladin's dilemma could be bypassed using PHBII's Charging Smite ACF, or Dungeonscape's Divine Spirit.

For lion-folk, there's catfolk in Races of the Wild, which is a pretty decent race on it's own, and wouldn't require much any refluffing, just fit the males with a mane.

(Cue getting shot down by meatspace limitations.)

[Edit]: Wholly swordsaged. :smallannoyed:

[Leon]

Centaur paladin's dilemma

Ladders.
And maybe small places (unless you have a Friendly caster with Reduce Person)

[Grynning]

Quick follow up - I think the Catfolk version that I linked is not the same as the RotW one, which is generally regarded as more balanced. If you have RotW, I'd use that version instead.

[Drakevarg]

(Cue getting shot down by meatspace limitations.)

Looks like. I might consider looking for a copy of Races of the Wild, though. But these days getting 3.5 books is a pain. The only place I know for sure has some doesn't have any of these books.

For those curious (since I might buy them eventually):

Races of Destiny
Races of Stone
DMG II
BoED
Complete Divine
ToB
MM III
MM V

[FelixG]

A centaur would likely just get a huge mount.

Nothing in the centaur says it cant right things one step larger than them.

[Cog]

(unless you have a Friendly caster with Reduce Person)
That's no good, alas; Centaurs aren't type:Humanoid.

[Drakevarg]

A centaur would likely just get a huge mount.

Nothing in the centaur says it cant right things one step larger than them.

Figuring out how they would ride it does raise questions, on the other hand.

So, what, Centaur Paladins get Elephant mounts?

[Leon]

That's no good, alas; Centaurs aren't type:Humanoid.

Yeah i was a bit iffy on that.
Oh well Ladders and Small spaces it is

[Seffbasilisk]

That's what Levitate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/levitate.htm) and Compression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/compression.htm) are for.

[nyarlathotep]

My suggestion for a lion race would be displacer beasts. There tentacles act as hands and they're intelligent and roughly on the same ECL level as minotaurs.

[Quirp]

Lammasus and Lamias come to mind as lionlike races in the monster manual.

[Shademan]

centaur: I am a paladin...and this horse is my SPECIAL mount.
NPC: oh...I see....you swing THAT way...
elf: humans...
:smalltongue:
had to be said

[FelixG]

centaur: I am a paladin...and this horse is my SPECIAL mount.
NPC: oh...I see....you swing THAT way...
elf: humans...
:smalltongue:
had to be said

-1 internets :P

[Shademan]

-1 internets :P

thats hars,yo.

[AslanCross]

A centaur would likely just get a huge mount.

Nothing in the centaur says it cant right things one step larger than them.

The mount would definitely need an exotic saddle, and it would be up to the DM to arbitrate what kind of anatomy can actually accommodate a quadrupedal rider. :P (See the DMG section on mounts)

[Tyger]

For the mount, I'd come up with something to replace the ability. While there is nothing RAW that precludes a centaur from riding another creature, it would be a big stretch for RP in my opinion.

As for the race, what about the trusty Wemic? Lionish centaur creatures.

[thompur]

I was going to say Wemic, but it's not in any of the books he owns. I've always liked Wemics. I don't know why they, and Hybsils, didn't make it into any of the MM's.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Lammasus and Lamias come to mind as lionlike races in the monster manual.

Lamias came to mind for me as well, though the ECL 13 may be a bit of a problem, and they might be a bit too similar to centaurs (well, in looks at least. Centaurs don't have Wisdom drain or SLAs).

[Urpriest]

Wemics or Catfolk would be best if you had the books, with Catfolk a better player race but Wemics closer to the theme of your other choices. Without those, definitely Lammasu. Or maybe Dragonne. But probably Lammasu. Very quintessential good-aligned monster.

[Scow2]

I suggest you get Races of the Wild ASAP for this campaign. That way, you can replace Harpies on the good side with Raptorans, who'd likely fit the fluff better, and install Catfolk. Also, RotW has great support for Catfolk, Centaur, and Gnoll characters.

Otherwise, you get a serious power discrepancy between the two factions, if you were to make Lammasu the lion-race (Having CRs 8, 4, 3 vs CRs 4, 1, 1), while using RotW gives you CRs 4, 1, 1 for the evil guys, and 4(Most Raptoran), 3(Centaur), 1(Catfolk) or 3(Centaur), 1(Raptoran), 1(catfolk)

The "Good" races end up being slightly lower in power than the "evil" ones, but have a few advantages in their favor: Raptorans grow in power as they level up, as well has being socially higher leveled than everyone else (4th level being their average, as opposed to the "common races" being level 1).

Catfolk compare well against the Gnolls and Lizardfolk, due to their greater speed and agility, despite the lack of RHD(Which makes them superior choices as Player Characters).

Centaurs sort-of suffer against the powerful Minotaurs because of their lower CR, but, unlike said minotaurs, they are fast and competant at ranged combat.

[Prime32]

Use the Charging Smite ACF from PHB2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebed/20070730) (end of page).

[dspeyer]

How about Griffons? CR4, to match minotaurs. Maybe house-rule them to be int 10 (would that call for a CR bump?).

[awa]

sphinx, Lammasu, griffion (eagle and lion)
lamia are evil so not a great pick but you already did harpies so maybe that's not a problem

[EvilJames]

You could also replace gnolls with lupins (not the celestial lupinals mind you) but I think the only 3.x version of them is in dragon magazine and the dragon compendium book by Paizo then you could have an actual wolf person rather than hyena, but then again they tend towards goodness so you'd have to refluff them anyway i suppose.