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Reis Tahlen
2010-10-10, 04:00 PM
Hello there!

Our 3.5 campaign being on hiatus, I promoted from player to DM, and proposed a DD4 campaign.

I already mastered DD4 with a single player. It will be my first group, with players who heard all the best about the fourth edition and are eager to play.

The campaign will be on Norrath, the world of Everquest and Everquest 2, and its copious backstory, with, of course, some accomodations.

I would like to have some advices regarding:

- Stats determination: which one could be the funniest/best one? The points system in the Player's Handbook? Dices? Homebrew system?

- The group: I really want my players to have fun, without forcing them to play something because "that role is not filled in the group". Can a group be effective without every role fulfilled? Can I go to each player and ask him to create whatever he wants without this being an hindrance for stories?

- Miscellaneous: is there any... traps where a new DD4 DM can easily fall? Anything that must be taken into account? Any piece of advice?

Thank you!

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 04:07 PM
4e really is best with the standard point-buy. The game is made with those numbers in mind in a much more detailed way than 3.5 is, especially since there are no in-game ways to get more points than someone else. (No stat-boosting items for instance).

Roles aren't critical. It's good if there is some mechanism to spend healing surges in combat without wasting actions, so a leader is useful. Beyond that, no role is absolutely essential, though fragile strikers and controllers tend to want defenders as allies.

Be aware that it's a very different game than 3.5. If you don't know how something works in 4e, don't just use the 3.5 rule, look it up. Even chance it's different.

Reis Tahlen
2010-10-10, 04:11 PM
Be aware that it's a very different game than 3.5. If you don't know how something works in 4e, don't just use the 3.5 rule, look it up. Even chance it's different.

Thank you for the answer :)

And don't worry, I do know pretty well DD4 rules (at least, theoretically if not in game-practice). The real problem will not be me, but my players, who will constantly mistake both systems' rules. I intend to make some summarized chart of the rules, and urge them to fully read them.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-10, 04:36 PM
- Stats determination: which one could be the funniest/best one? The points system in the Player's Handbook? Dices? Homebrew system?
Point buy is the most fair. You really don't want to have one character with multiple 18s in the same group as one with no scores over 14 - and that is liable to happen with random stats.


Can a group be effective without every role fulfilled?
Yes, absolutely; it just plays differently. Also, you can accomodate for this as the DM: if e.g. the group contains no controllers, use less minions; whereas if it contains two controllers, use more minions.

Two caveats. First, the game does get a lot more difficult if the group doesn't have a healer. And second, you may want to nudge people away from playing the same class as somebody else - or if they do, suggest that they pick the other "build" from that class and pick different powers. This is simply because some players don't like having another character at the table that is too simialar to theirs.


is there any... traps where a new DD4 DM can easily fall?
Hm, probably.

(1) for a party of X members of level Y, an encounter of X monsters of level Y is intended to be very easy. That is normal. It's also good if the players are still getting used to the system, but to challenge semi-experienced players, expect to use higher-level monsters a lot.
(2) almost without exception, solos are very easy to take down. The solution is easy: throw in some other monsters. The term "solo" should not imply that the monster must always be alone. The main exception to this is dragons.
(3) minions die easily; this is pretty much the point. That shouldn't be a problem, you can always add more. Note that 4 minions are much easier than one regular monster of the same level, despite (officially) being the same XP value. This basically means the XP value for minions is too high.
(4) if a defender "marks" your monster, that means it'll face a penalty for attacking somebody else. This does not mean that the monster must attack the defender. Frequently it is worth it to ignore the defender anyway, and go for the squishies.
(5) if players come up with clever ideas or good roleplaying for skills, don't be afraid to give them a +5 bonus to the roll. You'll have plenty of skill rolls anyway. Consider that a +1 to a single skill roll really won't make a difference 95% of the time. Giving a +5 to attack rolls isn't recommended though.
(6) there is a lot of errata to the PHB and DMG as originally printed. Most of it isn't really a big deal, but you should really pick up the new rules for stealth and for skill challenges, because the rules as printed don't really work.
(7) most players seem to either totally love or passionately hate skill challenges. If your group (or you) is the latter, don't be afraid to ignore them entirely and use regular skill checks. If you want details as to why, just google it - what is or isn't wrong with SCs is one of the most common heavy debates (and/or flame wars) of 4E.
(8) and finally, Kurald's golden rule for 4E: doing 20 damage now is better than thinking for a minute and then doing 23 damage. Keep gameplay reasonably fast. This goes both for you and for the players: if they're thinking too much, remind them that this is really not a tactical war game, and that not every move needs be the most optimized one.

Reis Tahlen
2010-10-10, 04:45 PM
Thanks for all the info!

I was just speaking with one of my future player, who asked me if we could play in Eberron. That doesn't seem a bad idea to me, the world setting looks nice, but isn"t there A LOT of info to give to the player? I don't want to scare them with dozens of pages of backstory.

My group is used to play in Forgotten Realms since 2nd Edition, and it has been a loooooong time a DM had to explain a game world to the party.

One alternative would be Ravenloft, who is 200% loved in my group if I'm the DM to do it, but how can Ravenloft be played in 4ed? Is this possible?

So, is Eberron a good setting for players not used to backstories, or Ravenloft despite having no 4ed books?

Edit: Just found a site with a guy who made a tremendous job of writing DD4 Ravenloft rules, so my choice is clear, now :smallbiggrin:

ninja_penguin
2010-10-10, 05:27 PM
Eberron doesn't require tons of backstories. If necessary, you can just confine them to a small area. Or an unpopulated one. You can run rather standardized dungeon crawlers by having them be explorers in Xen'drik. Don't overwhelm them all at once, but keep the book nearby for when they ask for details.