D20 Modern Optimization

[Tyndmyr]

So, started getting into a campaign of this recently. Good stuff. Easy to pick up for the long time 3.5 player.

So, naturally, the question arises...how do you optimize in it? Magic is less of a holy grail, in part due to the existence of firearms, in part due to it's more limited(but still useful) options, and partially because many settings may not include it at all.

Full BaB is valuable, but rare. The only base class with it is is Strong Hero, which is purely melee focused, and with poor class abilities. Together with the lack of fractional bab progression, this makes dipping painful, and in general, you'll want to do a 2 or 4 level dip(depending on if it's half or three quarters bab progression) to avoid the pain. PrCs are accessible earlier, though, typically going into them at level 4.

Massive Damage matters. A lot. For some combat styles, such as sniper, it's the primary means of getting kills, as even a 2d12 damage weapon doesn't scale great with levels.

Wealth is a superpower. The wealth system is fascinating, and leads to interesting results. Profession is an extremely powerful skill as a result, and every single character should always have at least a rank of it. After your initial couple levels, try to always keep wealth at 14+, making all purchases 14 or below effectively free. The aid another mechanic should generally be avoided. Licensing is generally not worthwhile. If you're military, you don't care, and if you aren't, you'll be quickly carrying illegal weaponry anyhow.

[Mongoose87]

The power level is so much lower than DnD. I've looked at it, and the best I've got is that the Artificer PrC would totally own in a campaign with few available magical items. THF doesn't give you 1.5 Str to damage, and there doesn't appear to be a Power Attack, either. Guns suck after the first few levels.

There is one class, I can't recall its name, Shadow Slayer or something, which gets full-BaB and a free magical sword. Check it out.

[Tyndmyr]

The power level is so much lower than DnD. I've looked at it, and the best I've got is that the Artificer PrC would totally own in a campaign with few available magical items. THF doesn't give you 1.5 Str to damage, and there doesn't appear to be a Power Attack, either. Guns suck after the first few levels.

There is one class, I can't recall its name, Shadow Slayer or something, which gets full-BaB and a free magical sword. Check it out.

There is a power attack, but of course, it's melee only. THF is probably not the way to go for melee. As in 3.5, you're best off grabbing a two hander. You can get ridiculous damage that way, though you do have to get to them first. A dip into fast hero is probably wise for strong heros. Picking up evasion at first level, along with +3 defense is totally worth losing a BaB over, and if you go for a 3-4 level dip, you can pick up more speed as well.

Shadow Hunter is unfortunately a 3/4ths BaB class. Target bonus can compensate for this, but it requires usage of action points, a scarce resource normally only increased on level up. Combined with the fact that marking a target eats a full round action at the start of combat, it's pretty situational.

I disagree slightly on firearm scalability. Sure, it's not great with hit point reduction, but consider that massive damage saves are triggered whenever you do more damage than con(or, with a feat, con+3). Next up, consider the anti-material rifle category, which does a base 2d12 damage. Yes, it's hard to increase that, but a few minor ways exist. Additionally, you benefit from an excellent range. Now, consider the feat double tap. It replaces "an attack", so it can be used with full attacks, making it extremely useful, unlike all those attacks that take a standard or full round action to fire a single round.

The only downsides are that it expends two rounds(trivial) and gives a -2 to hit. In return, it gives an extra damage die. 3d12 base damage is pretty likely to outstrip the constitution score, and a full attack of these gives you the potential for multiple SoDs per turn. I recommend dipping soldier for weapon specialization, giving you an additional +2 to damage, for average damage of 20.5, before ammo modifications. Stat boosters are not at all common in D20 modern, so no great worry there.

[Mongoose87]

THF = Using a two-hander :smalltongue:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Shadow_Slayer_%28Class%29

This is the class I referred to. Full Bab, three medium saves, fast healing and a free +5 to any melee weapon. Not too shabby.

We use a homebrewed version of the massive damage rules, at my DM's table, so I'm not especially savvy on working with the current one.

[Tyndmyr]

THF = Using a two-hander :smalltongue:

Doh. Misread as TWF. Doable with guns, but it's pretty feat intensive. Less problematic than in D&D, due to the availability of feats, but still something to consider. Also, consider that anything granting you an attack, such as cleave, is a lot nicer with the fatter damage die of a two hander, and TWF always has at least some penalties to hit.


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Shadow_Slayer_%28Class%29

This is the class I referred to. Full Bab, three medium saves, fast healing and a free +5 to any melee weapon. Not too shabby.

We use a homebrewed version of the massive damage rules, at my DM's table, so I'm not especially savvy on working with the current one.

Ah, yeah. I try to avoid D&D wiki homebrew though, especially when it's clearly far above the power level of the existing material. It's basically a redone version of the Shadow Hunter class found in Urban Arcana, with significantly nicer toys. Word of Slaying is particularly out of place. I wouldn't consider this generally available for optimization.

Grenades are worth considering as well, but shotguns typically are not. Same damage die as assault rifles, but shorter range and lower ammo capacity. The greater ammo diversity isn't usually enough to compensate.

[Ravens_cry]

D20 Modern can be fun. I have played it, and enjoyed it while the campaign lasted. I played a East Indian Canadian pathologist who wondered how the monsters invading reality could possibly work.
Those giant spiders should be asphyxiating within minutes, much less be able to move! Well, there was only one way to find out and it was messy.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh yeah, the menace manual has quite a few creatures that make you go "wait, what?".

In particular, whoever wrote it seems to have a particular fear/hatred of clowns.

[Jack Zander]

There are two optimized builds my group came up with. Both are melee. One is a tripping build that gets an auto trip every time a character misses you. The other is a fist fighter who knockout punches anything in one hit. The unoptimized (for combat) players of the group can then coup de grace or zip tie the bodies.

Guns don't need a whole lot of optimization. Either TWF and go into gunslinger or just find the largest, most illegal thing you can.

[Mongoose87]

Ah, yeah. I try to avoid D&D wiki homebrew though, especially when it's clearly far above the power level of the existing material.

It's not homebrew. It's OGL. I've seen it in my friend's rulebooks, though I don't recall which one.

[Pyron]

Ah, yeah. I try to avoid D&D wiki homebrew though, especially when it's clearly far above the power level of the existing material. It's basically a redone version of the Shadow Hunter class found in Urban Arcana, with significantly nicer toys. Word of Slaying is particularly out of place. I wouldn't consider this generally available for optimization.

Actually, the Shadow Slayer is straight out of the D20 Modern book (page 290) with all the bells and whistles already mentioned. Never played it, but any D20 Modern game with the supernatural element, it might be a good class to play.

The class is here (click on Advanced Class II (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd)).

[Tyndmyr]

Ah, that IS pretty juicy then. By level 13, you could be something of a combat beast with that. Given the light prereqs, it's also accessible as a gun fighter fairly easily, and many of it's abilities retain usefulness for the gunfighter. No magic weapon for them, but full BaB is invaluable in itself, and fast healing& defensive feats are great for everyone.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh yeah, the menace manual has quite a few creatures that make you go "wait, what?".

In particular, whoever wrote it seems to have a particular fear/hatred of clowns.
Damn straight. Even the VAMPIRE illustration was a clown, with far too many teeth even for a vampire I might. I loved the mind flayer preacher man picture though and the kobold. The Kobold was awesome.